RCCL Staff did not recognize Virginia Enhanced Drivers License

[poocher]

Each state is so different!!  It really shows how you have to read and understand the requirements!

[smplybcause]

1 minute ago, poocher said:

Each state is so different!!  It really shows how you have to read and understand the requirements!

 

It's annoying that this became such a cluster. The original idea was a national ID card with set standards across the board - similar to passports, but a license. Most other countries have a national ID. But there were several states that didn't like this or wanted more strict requirements that devolved to this cluster - where there's a minimum amount required but each state is allowed to add their own. And some dragged their feet to even start issuing the IDs. And they allowed the states to keep issuing their non-REAL licenses. Which just so happens to be cheaper, so a lot will get a rude awakening if they have the wrong one. 

 

I need to look up which month this goes into effect for flights so I make sure I don't fly then. Though it'll be causing problems for months after. Or cruises. 

[Charles4515]

30 minutes ago, poocher said:

The original vehicle registration takes the place of delivered mail.  In CT I showed BC,  vehicle reg, marriage license and current DL.  I remember when my daughter first moved to Florida and did not yet have a FL DL, Disney required a bank statement that had come through the USPS to prove she lived in Florida.  We called her bank & the branch manager mailed her a statement.  Worked!

When I registered in Texas I had to go to the tax assessor office. They gave me plates and a tax registration sticker. Nothing was mailed. The sticker is the registration. That is adhered to the windshield. When I went to get my drivers license I had to show the receipt. Nothing was mailed. They scanned my birth certificate and Social Security Card. They had said no lamented documents so I was concerned about that since I had lamented it about 40 years ago. They listed a W2 with the number on it as an alternative so I found one from 25 years ago when they still put the number on the W2 as a backup but they accepted the laminated card. If a mailed delivered item had been needed I would have been out of luck because I do everything online. Since then I got my property tax bill mail delivered but that was months after I had to get a DL. 

[poocher]

Mailed is needed IF you do Not have a second government issued document.  Registration, DL, certified BC are all government documents.  IF you are trying to use a utility bill or bank statement or insurance bill/policy, the normal requirement is that those must have come through the USPS.  Hence the issue with printing a copy off the computer.

[Charles4515]

14 minutes ago, smplybcause said:

 

It's annoying that this became such a cluster. The original idea was a national ID card with set standards across the board - similar to passports, but a license. Most other countries have a national ID. But there were several states that didn't like this or wanted more strict requirements that devolved to this cluster - where there's a minimum amount required but each state is allowed to add their own. And some dragged their feet to even start issuing the IDs. And they allowed the states to keep issuing their non-REAL licenses. Which just so happens to be cheaper, so a lot will get a rude awakening if they have the wrong one. 

 

I need to look up which month this goes into effect for flights so I make sure I don't fly then. Though it'll be causing problems for months after. Or cruises. 

Because some states make it an add on option with an additional fee for Real ID instead of mandatory I am sure when and if  it actually goes into effect there are going to be people who get a rude surprise showing up at an airport.  

[Charles4515]

4 minutes ago, poocher said:

Mailed is needed IF you do Not have a second government issued document.  Registration, DL, certified BC are all government documents.  IF you are trying to use a utility bill or bank statement or insurance bill/policy, the normal requirement is that those must have come through the USPS.  Hence the issue with printing a copy off the computer.

My insurance ID document is printed from online and my utility bill is sent online from the HOA. The insurance company would send it to me through the mail though if I requested. 

[poocher]

And as was stated here, IF one of those is an option you need to use, it can be a problem as an electronic copy is often not acceptable.

[rudeney]

5 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

I don’t think the insurance policy was being used for ID. It appears to be a requirement for a DL. 

 

I took it to be one of the "four items" required for a REAL ID, but you may be right about that.  Here, we don't need insurance to get a DL, but we do for vehicle registration and tag renewal.  

[Charles4515]

20 minutes ago, rudeney said:

 

I took it to be one of the "four items" required for a REAL ID, but you may be right about that.  Here, we don't need insurance to get a DL, but we do for vehicle registration and tag renewal.  

According to Google 😀 If you own a vehicle you must present proof of insurance when getting a license..if you don’t own one you must sign a statement that you don’t. I get the impression that insurance is a big deal here. I have to bring proof of insurance when I get my vehicle inspected. Inspection is every year. In my old state Maryland we only had emissions inspections every two years and didn’t show anything. Vehicles only inspected when sold. Ironic because about 20% of vehicles in Texas don’t seem to have mufflers……..in Maryland they would be ticketed and not on the road. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Charles4515

[rudeney]

6 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

According to Google 😀 If you own a vehicle you must present proof of insurance when getting a license..if you don’t own one you must sign a statement that you don’t. 

 

In Alabama?  I've never been asked for proof of insurance to get my DL renewed.  When I renew tags, they usually have my insurance in the computer, but I always take my insurance card just in case because one time they couldn't access it.  When I register a new car, I always take my proof of insurance for it because it's often not in their system yet.  Maybe they have a connection to the same system for renewing my DL where they see my insurance records?

 

BTW, apologies to all for hijacking this thread with all this DL, insurance, REAL ID talk! 🙂

[Charles4515]

17 minutes ago, rudeney said:

 

In Alabama?  I've never been asked for proof of insurance to get my DL renewed.  When I renew tags, they usually have my insurance in the computer, but I always take my insurance card just in case because one time they couldn't access it.  When I register a new car, I always take my proof of insurance for it because it's often not in their system yet.  Maybe they have a connection to the same system for renewing my DL where they see my insurance records?

 

BTW, apologies to all for hijacking this thread with all this DL, insurance, REAL ID talk! 🙂

In Texas.It seems like it is easier in Texas than Alabama. And I didn’t show anything that was postal mailed to me despite one assertion by someone. However it was by appointment which made it fast at the appointment but it took two months to get the appointment and it was pretty close to the required time limit after I registered my vehicle in Texas that I had to get a Texas DL. It seems true as someone posted that every state has its own process but I think they have to get whatever process approved by Homeland Security to be Real ID compliant. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Charles4515

[rudeney]

My understanding is that DHS requires proof of identity, proof of citizenship, and proof of address.  I don't know if this two-item requirement for proof of address is a DHS thing or a state thing.   My whole issue is that getting a passport was a MUCH easier process than my attempt at a REAL ID.  I don't recall all the exact details of my original passport application process, but I do remember going to the post office and it being very quick and easy.  Back then, the only slight complication was paying for a "passport photo", but I have done some professional photography and was able to do it myself.  Passport renewal is much simpler than entering the Publishers Clearing House Sweepstakes.  

[RedIguana]

14 hours ago, rudeney said:

My understanding is that DHS requires proof of identity, proof of citizenship, and proof of address.  I don't know if this two-item requirement for proof of address is a DHS thing or a state thing

The DHS only cares about proof of identity, and whether you are a citizen or lawful resident. Passports do not have an address on them (place of birth, but not even current state). The state you are applying for a DL in does care about your address, as most states require residency for a DL. Receiving postmarked mail does not prove you live somewhere, just that someone you know lets you receive mail there, or you have access to pull mail from that box. Having a utility bill at an address does not prove you live there, just that you pay that bill for that residence. There is no reason not to accept a printed copy of a utility bill as proof of residence, as chances are if you are paying the bill you live there (yes, you can be paying for a friend or family member, or own it and rent it out). The thing to remember about residency is that it also determines if and where you are qualified to vote. So for passports you can use school, government, employee ID's, yearbook photos, SS card etc, which prove identity, as they don't care where you actually live. Someone who rents out a room, lives with a family member, or shares an apartment is much less likely to receive mail (PO box maybe), own a car, or have a utility bill in their name, making it more difficult to prove residency, and hence forth more difficult to register to vote or obtain a state ID. I'll leave it to the reader to draw any conclusions they want between states that have strict or unreasonable document requirements to prove residency vs the ease of voting......

[Charles4515]

39 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

I'll leave it to the reader to draw any conclusions they want between states that have strict or unreasonable document requirements to prove residency vs the ease of voting......

 

Another rabbit hole. I did register to vote when I got my Texas  When I registered in Maryland 35 years ago it was getting my DL. When I voted in Maryland they checked my name on a voter list and I did not have to show my ID unless a poll watcher challenged. Since I lived in that precent 25 years I knew most of the poll watchers so that never happened. In Texas they checked for my name on the voter list and I had to show my ID. No big deal. In Maryland there was always somewhat of a line and I got to chat with neighbors. In Texas I only saw two other people voting.....

 

One thing that might be considered the address verification is that in Maryland and Texas they don't issue the Real ID license at the office. It has to be mailed. It used to be when you renewed your license in Maryland they made the new license and handed it to you at the DMV.  You could also  renew online every other renewal. But not for Real ID. No online renew. So maybe that is the residence verification, mailing it to you.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Charles4515

[rudeney]

47 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

The DHS only cares about proof of identity, and whether you are a citizen or lawful resident. Passports do not have an address on them (place of birth, but not even current state). The state you are applying for a DL in does care about your address, as most states require residency for a DL. Receiving postmarked mail does not prove you live somewhere, just that someone you know lets you receive mail there, or you have access to pull mail from that box. Having a utility bill at an address does not prove you live there, just that you pay that bill for that residence. There is no reason not to accept a printed copy of a utility bill as proof of residence, as chances are if you are paying the bill you live there (yes, you can be paying for a friend or family member, or own it and rent it out). The thing to remember about residency is that it also determines if and where you are qualified to vote. So for passports you can use school, government, employee ID's, yearbook photos, SS card etc, which prove identity, as they don't care where you actually live. Someone who rents out a room, lives with a family member, or shares an apartment is much less likely to receive mail (PO box maybe), own a car, or have a utility bill in their name, making it more difficult to prove residency, and hence forth more difficult to register to vote or obtain a state ID. I'll leave it to the reader to draw any conclusions they want between states that have strict or unreasonable document requirements to prove residency vs the ease of voting......

 

 

First of all, this is NOT to get a regular DL.  This documentation is used to get a REAL ID, which has to follow federal DHS rules where the applicant must prove identification, citizenship and residency.  How that is verified is somewhat up to the states, and even up to the individual examiner.  As I have mentioned, some of our examiners are often "hard to deal" with and won't accept home printed or photocopied items.  As for proof of residency/address for a regular, non-REAL ID license (or  non-drive voter ID card, which is free of cost), all you have to show for residency is something with your address - a piece of mail, lease, deed, etc. It's very easy.  If you are trying to get into a "voter suppression" argument, then you might want to take that elsewhere.

[rudeney]

16 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

One thing that might be considered the address verification is that in Maryland and Texas they don't issue the Real ID license at the office. It has to be mailed. It used to be when you renewed your license in Maryland they made the new license and handed it to you at the DMV.  You could also  renew online every other renewal. But not for Real ID. No online renew. So maybe that is the residence verification, mailing it to you.

 

Alabama's license - REAL ID or not - are always mailed.  And every other renewal can be processed  online if these is no address change.  I am not sure if a REAL ID can be renewed online.  As I've said, I don't have one and have no intention of dealing with the hassles of getting it since I have a current passport that will get me into federal offices, airports, etc.

[RedIguana]

11 minutes ago, rudeney said:

This documentation is used to get a REAL ID, which has to follow federal DHS rules where the applicant must prove identification, citizenship and residency.  How that is verified is somewhat up to the states, and even up to the individual examiner.  As I have mentioned, some of our examiners are often "hard to deal" with and won't accept home printed or photocopied items.

The DHS pretty much leave all residency requirements up to the state. Florida Real ID requirements specifically allows copies or printout. There is no reason for a difference in Real ID vs non for residency documentation.

[not-enough-cruising]

49 minutes ago, rudeney said:

 

Alabama's license - REAL ID or not - are always mailed.  And every other renewal can be processed  online if these is no address change.  I am not sure if a REAL ID can be renewed online.  As I've said, I don't have one and have no intention of dealing with the hassles of getting it since I have a current passport that will get me into federal offices, airports, etc.

In TX a Real ID DL can be renewed online

[rudeney]

2 hours ago, RedIguana said:

The DHS pretty much leave all residency requirements up to the state. Florida Real ID requirements specifically allows copies or printout. There is no reason for a difference in Real ID vs non for residency documentation.

 

Alabama has no specific rule about copies vs. originals - it seems to be at the discretion of the examiner and some are require originals.  The real issue is the examiners - they are State Troopers having to do desk duty and that makes them grumpy.  

[pawmtweez]

As someone who has both a passport and a real ID (coincidentally from Virginia--and it was a HUGE pain to gather the necessary documentation), and as someone who liked to consider myself an informed traveler (at least before COVID), I had never heard of an enhanced license before reading this discussion.  Neither had any of my friends or family in several other states. 

 

So I would like to thank the original poster for bringing this to our attention.

 

 

[Ferry_Watcher]

20 minutes ago, pawmtweez said:

I had never heard of an enhanced license before reading this discussion.  Neither had any of my friends or family in several other states. 

 

So I would like to thank the original poster for bringing this to our attention.

 

The five states that offer the Enhanced DL are all along the US/Canadian boarder.  (MN; MI, NY, VT & WA).  It's not surprising that folks in other parts of the country would not know.  Same with other Trusted Traveler programs like NEXUS (US/Canada partnership and SENTRI US/Mexico partnership.

[not-enough-cruising]

2 hours ago, pawmtweez said:

As someone who has both a passport and a real ID (coincidentally from Virginia--and it was a HUGE pain to gather the necessary documentation), and as someone who liked to consider myself an informed traveler (at least before COVID), I had never heard of an enhanced license before reading this discussion.  Neither had any of my friends or family in several other states. 

 

So I would like to thank the original poster for bringing this to our attention.

 

 

Side bar 

I find it fascinating the differences between the states in this process. 
 

In TX, if you have a passport, then the “Real ID” process is complete, you don’t have to show anything else; just present your passport, and have your picture made for your new gold star license. 

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Side bar 

I find it fascinating the differences between the states in this process. 
 

In TX, if you have a passport, then the “Real ID” process is complete, you don’t have to show anything else; just present your passport, and have your picture made for your new gold star license. 

 

You have to show your Social Security Card too. I moved to DFW last year and I had to bring it to get my Texas DL. 

[brillohead]

On 6/7/2022 at 1:12 PM, rudeney said:

 

 

Alabama has a list of acceptable items for proof of address - you need TWO of these:

 

• Valid Alabama Driver License or Identification Card displaying applicant's current address
• Voter Registration Card
• Residential Mortgage Contract
• Current Lease or Rental agreement for housing
• Proof of payment of residential property tax (Homestead)
• Previous year tax returns bearing applicants address
• Vehicle registration bearing applicants name and address
• Utility bill (Water, Gas, or Electric) less than 90 days old
• Any State or Federal Court documents indicating residence address
• School enrollment documentation
• Defense Department Form 214 (Report of Separation)
• Sex offender registration documents
• Current Homeowners insurance policy with name and address
• Social Security benefits statements/summary mailed to physical address
• U.S. or State Government check or other document mailed to applicants physical address
• Military Orders documenting duty station and place of residence.

Other than my DL, the only other thing I'd have an original of is vehicle registration.  Of the other items I do have, none of them are "originals" - they are all electronic, and some of the examiners simply won't accept "copies".  Personally, I believe they do this just to be bureaucratic a-h0les, because they are very inconsistent with requiring originals.  But as I've said, I am not worried about it as I use a passport for federal ID needs.

Y'all have any idea how difficult this process is if you've just moved to a new state AND you don't own/rent via traditional means?

I lived in Michigan for over 50 years, and last November I moved to Illinois (actually moved in with friends I met cruising several years ago). 

Since it's not my house, none of the utility bills here are in my name. 
Since it's not my house, the mortgage isn't in my name.
Since it's not my house, the property tax bills aren't in my name.
Since I had just moved here, none of my bank/credit card bills came here (and all of those are online anyway, nothing ever gets mailed to me until my card gets reissued when it is going to expire).  
Since I had just moved here, I didn't have a vehicle registration here. 
Since I had just moved here, I didn't have a voter registration card here.
Since I had just moved here, I didn't have any tax returns with this address on them.
Since I'm not in the military or a sex offender or on Social Security, I didn't have any of those types of records.

I had to change my address online on my bank accounts, then wait until my credit card statement cycled to generate a new bill (fortunately, Illinois accepts printed online statements, at least!), and then print out the rental insurance policy I took out to cover my belongings in the house (never trust someone else's insurance company to cover your property!).  Then I could use all of this to get an Illinois DL, and change my car's title from Michigan to Illinois to get it registered in Illinois.

 

The whole process took a couple months and was a complete PITA.  I can't imagine how difficult it would be for someone without any money/credit. If you don't have a bank account or a credit card and you live in someone else's house so you don't have bills in your name -- what are you supposed to do in a case like that?

Stupidly enough, ANYONE could have done the things I did to get an Illinois DL without actually living there... I could change my address on my bank accounts to any address in the state -- I never get mail there, so how would anyone know?  I could also take out a rental insurance policy to any address in the state online and print the policy out -- how would the insurance company know if I actually lived in the house at that address???

Leave it to governmental agencies to really screw up what was supposed to be a standardized process.