Reduced capacity?

[galleycook]

On 6/11/2022 at 6:11 PM, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

I've never seen any of the pools filled to capacity.  There always seems to be plenty of space in the pool when I hop in.

How would you know if they are filled to capacity?? The "capacity" numbers aren't consistent, so which is accurate.  What you can say is that there has never been more than the lowest number posted as the max capacity. 

 

The point being, the ship should set the capacity consistently and then reasonably enforce it, just like the mask policy in the theatre and casino. Or, don't bother having a capacity/mask policy at all.

 

 

[galleycook]

20 hours ago, Mark_T said:

It is the assumption that you will find 'most' of the infected people that seems ill-founded, when it is likely that most of those infected will have become so during their travel to the ship and so will not be picked up with that test.

 

It just feels like if the test is worth doing 2 days before boarding because of the people it would detect, then it is worth doing it again 2 days after boarding perhaps?

 

So why do one but not the other, if the aim is to detect those who are positive?

 

It looks like Viking have taken the next step and stopped pre-cruise testing for non-US departures, and will deal with those presenting with symptoms or positive tests as they occur during the cruise.

 

It will be interesting to see if other lines follow...

 

 

Testing 2 days pre-cruise minimizes the number of people showing up at the port only to be sent home. I'd rather know before I made the trek. Based on another thread, this happened on the cruise I was just on. Many advised they tested positive and had to cancel. 

 

Even if you contract it during travel to the port, most times it takes more than 2 days to show positive, so testing at the port will do little. I agree testing on the second or third day of the cruise will have a much better chance of catching those who contracted it during travel. However as we have recently seen, Celebrity decided they didn't want to test on-board as a requirement to enter Bermuda so they switched the itinerary on a few of the cruises, thus they didn't have to. 

[galleycook]

On 6/11/2022 at 5:56 PM, PTC DAWG said:

Oh the horror…

I assume the sarcasm means you don't have a problem not following the rules. Wow. Are you the one who was picking up the danish in the buffet, smelling them and then putting them back down?? 

[galleycook]

14 hours ago, Mark_T said:

I assume people are capable of reading previous posts in their entirety so I do not quote everything each time as it tends to clutter up the thread, but to answer that particular point...

 

No, pre-boarding testing does not 'minimize' anything, it will reduce the number of those who tested positive up to 2 days earlier boarding, but it is very misleading to suggest that it could ever 'minimize the risk of having people board the ship with covid'.

 

Language like this gives false confidence to others and may even encourage them to engage in more risky behavior onboard because they believe they have had their risks 'minimized' by such a test.

 

Viking on the other-hand was doing its best to minimize the risks with continued daily testing, if the results of that testing was delivering a worthwhile benefit don't you think they would have been using that as a competitive safety message? ... instead they have now ceased all testing where not port mandated.

Minimize may not be the best word in this case, but pre-testing absolutely reduces the risk of Covid spread. Even if one person is unable to sail because of a positive test, the risk of spread on board has gone down. We can never know by how much because it all depends on what the person would have done and what interaction they would have had with other passengers and staff, etc. The trip I was just on had many cancel due to positive tests, which meant the potential for greater spread on the ship was reduced.

 

As you said, you assume people are capable of reading previous posts, which also assumes people are smart enough to not believe a pre-test guarantees no Covid on board. I doubt anyone believes "minimize or reduce" means no Covid on board. I'm pretty sure that passengers also realize that every time they go ashore in port, they can potentially be bringing Covid back with them. Considering what we have all been through over the past couple of years, no one is that naive. 

[LGW59]

8 minutes ago, galleycook said:

Minimize may not be the best word in this case, but pre-testing absolutely reduces the risk of Covid spread. Even if one person is unable to sail because of a positive test, the risk of spread on board has gone down. We can never know by how much because it all depends on what the person would have done and what interaction they would have had with other passengers and staff, etc. The trip I was just on had many cancel due to positive tests, which meant the potential for greater spread on the ship was reduced.

 

As you said, you assume people are capable of reading previous posts, which also assumes people are smart enough to not believe a pre-test guarantees no Covid on board. I doubt anyone believes "minimize or reduce" means no Covid on board. I'm pretty sure that passengers also realize that every time they go ashore in port, they can potentially be bringing Covid back with them. Considering what we have all been through over the past couple of years, no one is that naive. 

And this is exactly the reason pre-board testing is a bunch of smoke and mirrors, totally false sense of security.  Now excuse me I need to get ready for a baseball game with 40,000 of my nearest and dearest untested and unmasked friends.

 

[PTC DAWG]

1 hour ago, galleycook said:

I assume the sarcasm means you don't have a problem not following the rules. Wow. Are you the one who was picking up the danish in the buffet, smelling them and then putting them back down?? 

Negative….

 

re the rules, I follow all of them, got the shots, took the booster, pre test to board..sailed 3 times since the restart, no issues.  Sailing again in Sept…will follow the rules…

 

I will say that I don’t think I have ever bothered to count the amount of people  in the pool..

 

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by PTC DAWG

[galleycook]

22 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

Negative….

 

re the rules, I follow all of them, got the shots, took the booster, pre test to board..sailed 3 times since the restart, no issues.  Sailing again in Sept…will follow the rules…

 

I will say that I don’t think I have ever bothered to count the amount of people  in the pool..

 

 

Well what do you find so horrible then?

The "rules" you highlighted are not rules. You want to sail, you have to be vaccinated, you have to test before the cruise, etc.  Rules are, wear the mask in the theater,  the staff will serve in the buffet and you are not to help yourself, don't exceed the capacity of the pool, etc.

Pre-pandemic, pools (ship or on land) had capacity limits. It appears they are changing the numbers now, not for general capacity but to reduce space between swimmers. Of course in a pool this is somewhat impractical but I assume being done with good intentions. My point regarding pool capacity was that the numbers are all over the place so its hard to follow this rule when there is no consistency. 

[galleycook]

2 hours ago, LGW59 said:

And this is exactly the reason pre-board testing is a bunch of smoke and mirrors, totally false sense of security.  Now excuse me I need to get ready for a baseball game with 40,000 of my nearest and dearest untested and unmasked friends.

 

If you call reducing the risk of spreading Covid  smoke and mirrors, I have no idea what you thinking. Testing does not eliminate Covid, but it has the potentially to reduce it. That's obvious.

 

Personally, I would rather have tests conducted prior to a cruise to catch those who might be positive before they get on the ship and potentially spread it. Even if I tested positive, and not spreading to others. The fact that you can go to a ball game where tests are not required does not change the fact that testing can reduce spread. Who said packing 40,000 untested and unmasked people into a stadium was a good idea anyway. 

 

 

[capecodmercury]

3 hours ago, LGW59 said:

And this is exactly the reason pre-board testing is a bunch of smoke and mirrors, totally false sense of security.  Now excuse me I need to get ready for a baseball game with 40,000 of my nearest and dearest untested and unmasked friends.

 

Don't forget, the cruise industry as a whole has a vested interest in trying to minimize cases on board and in showing that they are actively addressing any health risks. And a few public cases of wide scale infections on a ship could permanently hurt the industry. 

 

Cruising is somewhat different from other industries due to its nature and to public perception.  Over the past 15 to 20 years, there have been numerous health scares on cruise ships from Norovirus to Legionnaires disease.  And there was the wide spread publicity about the Diamond Princess and other cruise ship issues back in 2020. As a result, there is wide scale public perception that ships are floating petri dishes.

 

Point is, it doesn't matter whether the perception is true or not.  What matters to the industry is how it can overcome any negative perception and convince people who might be interested in a cruise that they will be safe. As such, I expect they will do what they can to appear to be out front on the issue of safety.

[PTC DAWG]

1 hour ago, galleycook said:

Well what do you find so horrible then?

The "rules" you highlighted are not rules. You want to sail, you have to be vaccinated, you have to test before the cruise, etc.  Rules are, wear the mask in the theater,  the staff will serve in the buffet and you are not to help yourself, don't exceed the capacity of the pool, etc.

Pre-pandemic, pools (ship or on land) had capacity limits. It appears they are changing the numbers now, not for general capacity but to reduce space between swimmers. Of course in a pool this is somewhat impractical but I assume being done with good intentions. My point regarding pool capacity was that the numbers are all over the place so its hard to follow this rule when there is no consistency. 

I was commenting on the post re how many people were in the pool…oh the horror, making a joke about what I thought was a silly complaint.  IF the pool looks too crowded…don’t get in.  
 

Honestly, if this is all we have to worry about, things are looking up…

Edited June 13, 2022 by PTC DAWG

[OysterD]

1 hour ago, galleycook said:

If you call reducing the risk of spreading Covid  smoke and mirrors, I have no idea what you thinking. Testing does not eliminate Covid, but it has the potentially to reduce it. That's obvious.

 

Personally, I would rather have tests conducted prior to a cruise to catch those who might be positive before they get on the ship and potentially spread it.

 

 

Covid has been around for just over 30 months now. Covid is going nowhere, it cannot be eliminated, it will always be around. Just like flu and colds. It's here forever. 

 

Do you think people should be tested for covid before boarding a ship forever more? You said its a bad idea having 40k people untested in a stadium, so do you think for the rest of our lives we should take covid tests every day before we do anything which involves interacting with other people?

 

If you don't think we should have to take tests before cruising or going to a stadium etc for the rest of our lives, at what point should the testing stop? What will change in a year or 2 years? More than likely, nothing, so why not just stop the testing malarkey now? 

 

[Ipeeinthepools]

11 minutes ago, OysterD said:

Covid has been around for just over 30 months now. Covid is going nowhere, it cannot be eliminated, it will always be around. Just like flu and colds. It's here forever. 

 

Do you think people should be tested for covid before boarding a ship forever more? You said its a bad idea having 40k people untested in a stadium, so do you think for the rest of our lives we should take covid tests every day before we do anything which involves interacting with other people?

 

If you don't think we should have to take tests before cruising or going to a stadium etc for the rest of our lives, at what point should the testing stop? What will change in a year or 2 years? More than likely, nothing, so why not just stop the testing malarkey now? 

 

 

I don't know when pre-cruise testing should stop but now isn't the time.  As long as you are keeping a lot of infected people off the ship, it's a good thing.  Just out of curiosity, how many infected people would have to be identified for you to think pre-cruise testing would be worthwhile?  3%, 5%, 8%  You don't need to find every infected person for testing to be worthwhile.

[Carried_Away]

I was on the Summit for the same cruise as the OP. A crew member told me our sailing had about 1,900 passengers; the Summit's capacity is 2,200. He said some cabins are still being left open to serve as isolation rooms if needed. The ship felt full, with elevators crowded and dining tables very close. (I have never had a problem getting a table for 2, but with only a few inches between tables, you can easily get to know your neighbors.) I also heard from crew members that they were not allowed to get off the ship in ports because of an increase in crew covid cases. I didn't hear anything about passenger cases.

 

A couple of crew members I spoke to said staff shortages varied by department. The only service drop-off I noticed was that it was sometimes hard to find a bar server for tableside beverage service in Oceanview and Cafe al Bacio. Otherwise, I thought the crew worked very hard and provided great service as usual. I had a wonderful cruise despite occasionally having to go to the bar to get my own drink.

 

As for supplies, sometimes the specific bar we were at didn't have the non-alcoholic beverages we wanted, but the bartender usually tried to track down what we wanted, or we would just go to the next bar. I didn't notice any other supply shortages --- and I actually think what we encountered was more about distribution of products within the ship than it was about an overall shortage.

[OysterD]

28 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

I don't know when pre-cruise testing should stop but now isn't the time.  As long as you are keeping a lot of infected people off the ship, it's a good thing.  Just out of curiosity, how many infected people would have to be identified for you to think pre-cruise testing would be worthwhile?  3%, 5%, 8%  You don't need to find every infected person for testing to be worthwhile.

A lot of people moaned when the UK government lifted all covid restrictions, dropped all self isolation requirements and stopped free testing, four months ago. These moaning people said "now isn't the right time". Luckily they were ignored and life here has largely been back to complete normality for the last 4 months. 

 

Again, if now isn't the right time to lift testing requirements for cruises, then when is? What will change in the next year or two? Everyone who wants to be vaccinated is already. There's nothing else that can be done. Maybe you're waiting for a miracle cure? In which case you'll be waiting an awful long time because we've had centuries to find a cure for the flu or common cold and there still isn't one. 

 

Should people have to test before they stay in a hotel? What's the difference between going on a cruise for a week or staying in say the Bellagio in Vegas or a Sandals resort in the Caribbean for a week? Are people upset if the Vegas resort hotels are operating at more than 50% capacity... my guess is no, so why are we even having a discussion about how awful it is that cruise ships are finally filling up and getting back to normal?!

[Ipeeinthepools]

44 minutes ago, OysterD said:

... so why are we even having a discussion about how awful it is that cruise ships are finally filling up and getting back to normal?!

 

Maybe we shouldn't be having this discussion.  Ships are filling up with testing as part of the protocol.  Clearly it isn't a problem for a lot of people and perhaps many people are cruising because of the safeguards like pre-cruise testing.

[PTC DAWG]

8 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Maybe we shouldn't be having this discussion.  Ships are filling up with testing as part of the protocol.  Clearly it isn't a problem for a lot of people and perhaps many people are cruising because of the safeguards like pre-cruise testing.

I’ve taken two covid tests in my life.  Both for boarding a ship…zero need otherwise for me to test..I think they will end sooner than later if for no other reason many places are not offering testing anymore.

 

Wife and I have two more EMed tests for a cruise this Sept…I hope I don’t need them. 

[galleycook]

1 hour ago, OysterD said:

Covid has been around for just over 30 months now. Covid is going nowhere, it cannot be eliminated, it will always be around. Just like flu and colds. It's here forever. 

 

Do you think people should be tested for covid before boarding a ship forever more? You said its a bad idea having 40k people untested in a stadium, so do you think for the rest of our lives we should take covid tests every day before we do anything which involves interacting with other people?

 

If you don't think we should have to take tests before cruising or going to a stadium etc for the rest of our lives, at what point should the testing stop? What will change in a year or 2 years? More than likely, nothing, so why not just stop the testing malarkey now? 

 

How did the Diamond Princess end up with ship full of Covid.... it started with one person. I don't like testing anymore than many others. I'd prefer not to wear a mask. But I'm prepared to live with some inconveniences for the time being. Vaccines appear to be reducing the risk of catching it or at least lessening the severity. Another tool currently available (if we want to somewhat assemble as in the past) is testing. Unfortunately there are many who have and will see long term effects from contracting Covid. I know of dozens of people who have caught it and I'm fortunate not to have myself.  

 

I don't know when the right time to stop testing is. The CDC thinks .3% of passengers and or crew Covid cases should be investigated. That's a relatively small number. But it certainly sounds like many people who where scheduled for the cruise I was on ended up testing positive pre-cruise. And since many travel in pairs (or as a family), those numbers could have doubled  on board. This would have easily been the .3% not including any others who tested positive later (there were cases on board). And I have to reiterate, testing does not stop Covid but it can reduce the spread. 

 

I didn't see anyone on board wash their hands upon entering the buffet. I'm assuming some did, but I never saw anyone. In fact I saw some use the restrooms and not wash their hands! Limited mask use where it was required. Helping yourself to food in the buffet, Etc.Maybe if everyone followed the rules, testing could be reduced and we won't have another 2 years of this. 

 

I never said it's a bad idea to have 40K people untested in a stadium. but why should that be the comparison. You may have what could be considered close contact with 100 people before, during and after an event in a stadium. On a ship, you see the same people over and over throughout the day and then repeat for the next week or two. I think the chances of contracting Covid from the 100 is much lower than on the ship. 

[Redtravel]

19 hours ago, mahdnc said:

 

I am sorry to read all this.  Coincidentally my TA was on your sailing and she seemed to be happy with the cruise although that is a very general statement.

 

David

Travel agents love all cruises.

[ConnMom]

I just got off the Summit Sunday, and would like to share my impressions, especially with those people who will be sailing later this summer and may be uncomfortable with the current  onboard experience.  I have been very cautious throughout the pandemic, fully vaxxed and boosted, and never far from my mask.

Our return to cruising this spring has been stressful for me, but I generally felt comfortable on the Summit last week. Even though it felt like a full ship, there were ways to avoid the most crowded situations while still enjoying many of the cruise experiences that I love.  I thought most people in the theater were very compliant about mask wearing, and anyone who wanted to observe social distancing could find seats that were distant from other people.  I was seldom on crowded elevators; in fact, my husband and I often were the only people on our elevator rides. While most passengers did not wear masks around the ship, I was definitely not alone in my choice to mask up indoors.  It was easy to find a lounge that was not crowded,  and we were pleased with the live music onboard.  On the first day, we changed our dining arrangements from anytime to late seating, where, upon request, we were given a lovely table for two that was adequately distanced from other seating.  In addition, by asking the hostess when we entered the dining room during breakfast and lunch hours, we always received a socially distanced table for two without waiting.   We have always enjoyed meeting new people in the dining rooms and lounges, but were willing to give this up at this time for a safer experience.  The other big adjustment I made was not sitting for hours in the crowded pool area, but using our beautiful aft balcony more extensively.

Even though personnel shortages caused longer waits for service,  and supply issues were very noticeable in the dining rooms and lounges, we had a thoroughly enjoyable cruise.  The staff was wonderful, our itinerary was great in spite of the adjustments necessitated by the tropical storm, and entertainment was very good.  I know we cannot escape the risk of getting Covid on a cruise, but I appreciate the decisions of the officers to promote safety, and the efforts  by the staff to make people feel comfortable.

[Dolebludger]

You mention personnel shortages on board, and we have been wondering about that. Any idea by what percentage onboard service staff was short?

Edited June 14, 2022 by Dolebludger

[Carried_Away]

5 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

You mention personnel shortages on board, and we have been wondering about that. Any idea by what percentage onboard service staff was short?

 

I don't think an overall percentage would be useful because more than one crew member told me that crew shortages were not evenly distributed across departments. Some departments --- the casino, for example --- had minimal impact, while other departments experienced greater shortages. 

 

As I said above, it was sometimes hard to get tableside beverage service, but that was the only service impact I experienced on the Summit last week. I still had a great cruise. Neither short staffing nor supply issues affected me in any meaningful way, and I certainly wouldn't suggest anyone consider canceling over worries about these issues.

[galleycook]

5 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

You mention personnel shortages on board, and we have been wondering about that. Any idea by what percentage onboard service staff was short?

I can't give you a percentage but can tell you what we saw or experienced. Service was slow in some restaurants. The line for the main dining rm was quite long on some nights. Not sure if if that was due to staff shortages or other factors. Service at the bars or Al Bacio was occasionally slow. Restaurant staff worked in more than one locations (I assume to help manage demand). We also saw some of the restaurant maitre d's helping in the buffet. Only saw someone cleaning the restrooms on two occasions verses multiple times everyday on our Dec cruise. There was always plenty of staff in the jewellery/store area though :).

[galleycook]

On 6/10/2022 at 3:23 PM, bnurick said:

 

Thank you both for posting. We are booked for the June 26th Bermuda cruise.  It shows online very sold out.  Did you have a lobster night?  Anything you did enjoy you could pass along?  Thank you.

Lobster was served on the second last night and on the last night in Le Pete Chef.

[Redtravel]

Off Summit 2 days ago. Not surprisingly, my spouse tested positive today for Covid.  We both wore masks and tried to distance. However, with the packed crowds on Summit last week, it was likely to happen.  

[rachiem]

On 6/12/2022 at 10:06 AM, sunlover33 said:

Why so long for isolation when a lateral flow test (rapid antigen)  literally takes 15 -30 minutes to get a result and is accepted to board?, Are they doing PCR tests, in which case it will catch many people out if they have had covid within the last 90+ days as they can still test positive. Glad we obtained Certificate of recovery as we would be caught out with this if we were tested onboard next month. 

As apparently, it can take up to 48 hours to show on a test after you've been in contact with someone. You have to isolate for that length before you can take the test.