Upgrade bidding - first come, first serve?

[haolenate]

uh.  Not sure you understand Plusgrade.  NOTHING is outsourced.  Its a program.  You buy it and pay a licensing fee every year.  Ive actually overseen the integration of it with an airline, where its ran by 2 employees of said airline who work in Revenue Management.

 

So I guess we will have to professionally disagree here, and now I even question why I bothered to post on the *actual* inner workings of how the upgrade system works.  Just wanted to give some inside intel.

Edited October 10, 2022 by haolenate

[julig22]

11 minutes ago, haolenate said:

uh.  Not sure you understand Plusgrade.  NOTHING is outsourced.  Its a program.  You buy it and pay a licensing fee every year.  Ive actually overseen the integration of it with an airline, where its ran by 2 employees of said airline who work in Revenue Management.

 

So I guess we will have to professionally disagree here, and now I even question why I bothered to post on the *actual* inner workings of how the upgrade system works.  Just wanted to give some inside intel.

Of course there will be employees within an organization when there are licensed/outsourced applications. But since I have to go to a non-NCL site for bidding

https://upgrade.plusgrade.com/offer/NCL/ 

that fits my definition of outsourced. NCL supplies the data, pays in one form or another for the processing of that data.

But thanks for the insight.

 

[Nclgetawaymenhoney]

Algorithms is what this program is about in my opinion and to me it’s about maximum profit per bid based on the chain of bids that happen once one bid is awarded it opens up

a cabin for the next lower category and so on.  

[northbeachgirl]

On 10/6/2022 at 10:55 PM, haolenate said:

I actually know the person who is in charge of this 🙂

 

The bidding takes into account:

 

1. Your financial contribution to the sailing  (your total fare paid, extras you've paid, history of sailing with NCL and your average onboard spend)

2. Your Latitudes Status

3. #1 factored in to the ability for NCL to then either resell your cabin by sailing date, or accept a bid from someone who wants your cabin.

 

I had a friend who dropped nearly $1700 on his last cruise bid up to a spa balcony from a regular balcony for only $200 and he got it, whereas one of our friends, also on the cruise, 1st time NCL'er, bid $200 and did NOT get it.  

I appreciate  the  information you are sharing. We are hoping to get an upgrade on our upcoming Princess cruises, We have  a b2b2b booked and will be bidding on moving from an inside to a balcony, We may have to change rooms for each cruise but that is just one more thing to look forward to. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by northbeachgirl

[mscdivina2016]

23 hours ago, haolenate said:

 

 

So I guess we will have to professionally disagree here, and now I even question why I bothered to post on the *actual* inner workings of how the upgrade system works.  Just wanted to give some inside intel.

Please don't feel that way. I appreciate it very much for the extra insight.

 

So do the cruise lines actually purchase the program and download it onto their systems or are they buying access to a program which is operated centrally?

I ask because the web address is the same over multiple lines except for the last characters....\msc or \ncl.

 

I assume it would be like having an online store but it goes thru Amazon.

 

On the other hand, the program would need full access to a cruise lines data base as well as real time availability so it would also make sense it would be in house.

 

[Karaboudjan]

4 hours ago, mscdivina2016 said:

Please don't feel that way. I appreciate it very much for the extra insight.

 

So do the cruise lines actually purchase the program and download it onto their systems or are they buying access to a program which is operated centrally?

I ask because the web address is the same over multiple lines except for the last characters....\msc or \ncl.

 

I assume it would be like having an online store but it goes thru Amazon.

 

On the other hand, the program would need full access to a cruise lines data base as well as real time availability so it would also make sense it would be in house.

 

 

It looks like Plusgrade is software as a service, so it would be running on their systems, or systems hosted for them by a third party.  I presume they have configuration stored for NCL and all of their other partners so you see the NCL version of their user interface and their decision engine runs the rules that NCL chooses, and their software must have the capability to get data from NCL's database.

[2boyzmom]

I would believe current cabin selection, price paid, plus bid amount are all factors and possibly the latitudes component being the "tie breaker" so to speak for similar bids with similar original cabin categories. At least i can hope 🙂

 

[mscdivina2016]

Just now, 2boyzmom said:

I would believe current cabin selection, price paid, plus bid amount are all factors and possibly the latitudes component being the "tie breaker" so to speak for similar bids with similar original cabin categories. At least i can hope 🙂

 

As I am currently involved in, they 2 weeks before sailing switched  to the auction style. Several of us bid max on all Haven categories.

That was between $2000-4000 a person.

Now under auction style, I am at $10,000+ for two people and am only winning 2 categories with 2 weeks to go.

This is going to get pricey for other bidders. I went from inside to balcony using points for a long cruise so I have over $4000 advantage to others. 

The problem with points is you cannot buy into Haven you can only bid. I think that is a flaw.

[julig22]

10 minutes ago, mscdivina2016 said:

As I am currently involved in, they 2 weeks before sailing switched  to the auction style. Several of us bid max on all Haven categories.

That was between $2000-4000 a person.

Now under auction style, I am at $10,000+ for two people and am only winning 2 categories with 2 weeks to go.

This is going to get pricey for other bidders. I went from inside to balcony using points for a long cruise so I have over $4000 advantage to others. 

The problem with points is you cannot buy into Haven you can only bid. I think that is a flaw.

The fact that you are in a bidding war even tho you seem to have paid significantly less than others seems to imply that price paid doesn't matter. Who wudda thunk?

[mscdivina2016]

Just now, julig22 said:

The fact that you are in a bidding war even tho you seem to have paid significantly less than others seems to imply that price paid doesn't matter. Who wudda thunk?

But did I pay less as far as NCL is concerned? Did BOA pay the difference?

The fact I am high bidder means what I paid and what they can get out of anyone does not matter. Total dollars is all that matters it seems.

 

[mianmike]

On 10/6/2022 at 10:55 PM, haolenate said:

I actually know the person who is in charge of this 🙂

 

The bidding takes into account:

 

1. Your financial contribution to the sailing  (your total fare paid, extras you've paid, history of sailing with NCL and your average onboard spend)

2. Your Latitudes Status

3. #1 factored in to the ability for NCL to then either resell your cabin by sailing date, or accept a bid from someone who wants your cabin.

 

I had a friend who dropped nearly $1700 on his last cruise bid up to a spa balcony from a regular balcony for only $200 and he got it, whereas one of our friends, also on the cruise, 1st time NCL'er, bid $200 and did NOT get it.  

 

I want to believe you, I do, but knowing Frank Del Rio (after listening to numerous investor conference calls) I find it hard to believe he would not insist on an algorithm that maximizes profit.  #1 and #2 of your list don't add to the profit.  That is so not Frank Del Rio to not focus solely on profit.  I do hope you have inside information and are right though.     

[Karaboudjan]

5 hours ago, mianmike said:

 

I want to believe you, I do, but knowing Frank Del Rio (after listening to numerous investor conference calls) I find it hard to believe he would not insist on an algorithm that maximizes profit.  #1 and #2 of your list don't add to the profit.  That is so not Frank Del Rio to not focus solely on profit.  I do hope you have inside information and are right though.     

 

They did not say how those factors influence the upgrades.  I would not assume that being a higher Latitudes status means you can automatically get an upgrade with a lower bid.  I think this program is (or is intended to be) about the long view and not just the immediate cruise.  For example, they want an upgrade to encourage people to book higher categories on their future cruise. So maybe if you are a Latitudes member but have always stayed with balconies they are not going to give much weight to your bid since they may consider that you are just not a 'Haven person.'  They might give preference to a lower bid from a first-timer who could be wowed by the Haven and decide they never want to sail anywhere else.

[Mallow]

I would have guessed that it was an algorithm that evaluates the maximum amount of money for NCL based on all submitted bids and rearranging cabins to determine the best combination.  So even though someone didn't have the highest bid, they may still win when the combination of all cabins/upgrades is the maximum amount of money for NCL.

[MotownVoice]

3 minutes ago, Mallow said:

I would have guessed that it was an algorithm that evaluates the maximum amount of money for NCL based on all submitted bids and rearranging cabins to determine the best combination.  So even though someone didn't have the highest bid, they may still win when the combination of all cabins/upgrades is the maximum amount of money for NCL.

There is only one way to "maximize the amount of money".

And that is to give the staterooms to the highest bidders.

There is no other way to achieve that state.

[Karaboudjan]

27 minutes ago, MotownVoice said:

There is only one way to "maximize the amount of money".

And that is to give the staterooms to the highest bidders.

There is no other way to achieve that state.

 

Yes, but that is fairly simple and probably would not require a full-blown third party software solution.  Look at all of the partners that Plusgrade has.  They must have something more to offer.  If you read their literature you get the sense that this is about more than just the one cruise.

[MotownVoice]

9 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

 

Yes, but that is fairly simple and probably would not require a full-blown third party software solution.  Look at all of the partners that Plusgrade has.  They must have something more to offer.  If you read their literature you get the sense that this is about more than just the one cruise.

Of course but all the cruise line would need from them is to collect, track, organize and analyze the associated data.  That doesn't require an algorithm, unless an instruction was written just to select all of the winning bids at the end.  But that still wouldn't preclude them from being chosen strictly based on highest bids.

Plus it must be nice for NCL to know that if something went haywire, they have someone to blame.

 

[dbrown84]

Since I started this thread, I thought I could at least come back to say what happened for me.....I did cancel my bid and re-submitted with a different credit card.  I received the upgrade from inside to balcony last night (we sail on Saturday), with a minimum bid of $75 per person.  This a comped cruise thru CAS, so I don't have a lot of $$$ invested.  Just $140 admin fee plus port fees and taxes.  This is my first cruise since January, 2020

[MotownVoice]

6 minutes ago, dbrown84 said:

Since I started this thread, I thought I could at least come back to say what happened for me.....I did cancel my bid and re-submitted with a different credit card.  I received the upgrade from inside to balcony last night (we sail on Saturday), with a minimum bid of $75 per person.  This a comped cruise thru CAS, so I don't have a lot of $$$ invested.  Just $140 admin fee plus port fees and taxes.  This is my first cruise since January, 2020

According to the PLEASE READ that I got when I did my bid last night, they also warn you that your insurance policy will be upgraded to the new stateroom catagory, which in some cases could be considerable.  So that has to be prepared for as well.

[julig22]

56 minutes ago, MotownVoice said:

There is only one way to "maximize the amount of money".

And that is to give the staterooms to the highest bidders.

There is no other way to achieve that state.

Yes with one exception. They also figure in the downstream affect.  A $300 bid that vacates a cabin they can resell or fill with a bid may trump a higher bid that simply empties a cabin.  That's where the need for a more extensive algorithm comes in.

Actually had this happen - I had a sold out cabin category, put in my minimum bid shortly after final payment.  Got my upgrade bid shortly thereafter - they wanted my cabin to resell.

Edited October 12, 2022 by julig22

[mscdivina2016]

Just now, julig22 said:

Yes with one exception. They also figure in the downstream affect.  A $300 bid that vacates a cabin they can resell or fill with a bid may trump a higher bid that simply empties a cabin.  That's where the need for a more extensive algorithm comes in.

Actually had this happen - I had a sold out cabin category, put in my minimum bid shortly after final payment.  Got my upgrade bid shortly thereafter - they wanted my cabin to resell.

That would mean someone like myself who purchased an inside then used points to get a balcony then bid into Haven should win?

 

Up coming 21 night cruise next week I am at a huge advantage to those that actually paid for a balcony.

 

[mscdivina2016]

Just now, julig22 said:

Yes with one exception. They also figure in the downstream affect.  A $300 bid that vacates a cabin they can resell or fill with a bid may trump a higher bid that simply empties a cabin.  That's where the need for a more extensive algorithm comes in.

Actually had this happen - I had a sold out cabin category, put in my minimum bid shortly after final payment.  Got my upgrade bid shortly thereafter - they wanted my cabin to resell.

That would mean someone like myself who purchased an inside then used points to get a balcony then bid into Haven should win?

 

Up coming 21 night cruise next week I am at a huge advantage to those that actually paid for a balcony.

 

[julig22]

1 minute ago, mscdivina2016 said:

That would mean someone like myself who purchased an inside then used points to get a balcony then bid into Haven should win?

 

Up coming 21 night cruise next week I am at a huge advantage to those that actually paid for a balcony.

 

Um, no.  You are in competition with anyone else in the same balcony category, bidding for the same upgrade. How you got to that balcony has no effect on additional income they can get with upgrades.

[mscdivina2016]

Just now, julig22 said:

Um, no.  You are in competition with anyone else in the same balcony category, bidding for the same upgrade. How you got to that balcony has no effect on additional income they can get with upgrades.

That may be true, but in my reply, I was referring to the  downstream income aspect.

I actually think it's treating me as any one else with a balcony period. They have a fixed value. No advantage.

[dbrown84]

43 minutes ago, MotownVoice said:

According to the PLEASE READ that I got when I did my bid last night, they also warn you that your insurance policy will be upgraded to the new stateroom catagory, which in some cases could be considerable.  So that has to be prepared for as well.

if you have the insurance, which I don't

[julig22]

21 minutes ago, mscdivina2016 said:

That may be true, but in my reply, I was referring to the  downstream income aspect.

I actually think it's treating me as any one else with a balcony period. They have a fixed value. No advantage.

No advantage, exactly my point. By downstream effect I am referring to additional income they can get when you vacate a cabin and they resell or upgrade into that cabin.  I think you are not understanding what I said.