Cruise Insurance when flying SOUTHWEST

[Willwils]

Well, we are going a day early to FLL for our RCL cruise end of Jan'2023.. Except for being  worried if it could happens to us,, so far we are unaffected since we 're a month  away for our cruise & flying  SOUTHWEST. Travel insurance  agent says that our Nationwide policy would NOT have covered us for cruise losses had we missed the cruise due to the Sothwest screw-up. That's  because it wasn't a plane's mechanical failure. But, they don't care that it was in part a SYSTEM FAILURE. Except for a CFAR policy, I wonder if any other brand insurance would cover any cruise loss from  SOUTHWEST debacle? Agent wouldn't  answer that question. For future knowledge, what your thought? 

[klfrodo]

Good question for @iamtrustworthy. Would be interesting to hear Steve’s answer.

Thanks Steve

[Babr]

Even CFAR may not save the day. Most third-party policies with a CFAR provision have a defined time window for cancellation prior to departure - perhaps 48 hours depending on the policy. 
 

I, too, am curious about the answer to this one.

[Benthayer Gonbak]

13 hours ago, Willwils said:

Well, we are going a day early to FLL for our RCL cruise end of Jan'2023.. Except for being  worried if it could happens to us,, so far we are unaffected since we 're a month  away for our cruise & flying  SOUTHWEST. Travel insurance  agent says that our Nationwide policy would NOT have covered us for cruise losses had we missed the cruise due to the Sothwest screw-up. That's  because it wasn't a plane's mechanical failure. But, they don't care that it was in part a SYSTEM FAILURE. Except for a CFAR policy, I wonder if any other brand insurance would cover any cruise loss from  SOUTHWEST debacle? Agent wouldn't  answer that question. For future knowledge, what your thought? 

 

One of the ways we’ve gotten around that problem is to use their transportation.  However, that means flying other than Southwest which is the norm for us in the US.  
 

i do sometimes long for the times before deregulation where you could just take your ticket to another carrier!  I understand that Southwest may be trying to negotiate with other airlines, but who knows how that would work.

 

we were at sea during Ian, but we’re notified early that our trip might be lengthened.  I watched for early cancellation notifications as we would have been willing to go another day earlier.  Our return flights were indeed impacted but Southwest allowed for changes without extra costs and I quickly rebooked while at sea.  For what it is worth, since the cruise line extended the cruise, we were give  some free internet.  Others needed telephone time which they were given. 

[Willwils]

1 hour ago, Benthayer Gonbak said:

 

One of the ways we’ve gotten around that problem is to use their transportation.  However, that means flying other than Southwest which is the norm for us in the US.  
 

i do sometimes long for the times before deregulation where you could just take your ticket to another carrier!  I understand that Southwest may be trying to negotiate with other airlines, but who knows how that would work.

 

we were at sea during Ian, but we’re notified early that our trip might be lengthened.  I watched for early cancellation notifications as we would have been willing to go another day earlier.  Our return flights were indeed impacted but Southwest allowed for changes without extra costs and I quickly rebooked while at sea.  For what it is worth, since the cruise line extended the cruise, we were give  some free internet.  Others needed telephone time which they were given. 

Thanks for your insights.

 

[Benthayer Gonbak]

1 hour ago, Willwils said:

Thanks for your insights.

 

Hope your cruise and flight are a success.  And, please note Ian didn’t affect the entire nation as this last snow storm seems to have!  
 

For what it is worth, the first flights of the day tend to be the least delayed, but certainly not always!  For us that gives us about 6-8 other nonstop flights to standby for!  

[Babr]

Aside from avoiding Southwest altogether, the larger question remains. Does any insurance cover this kind of situation?

 

My guess is No. Here’s why.

 

No insurance will cover an event it considers to be within the control of the airline, like scheduling and staffing. Southwest’s problems occurred because its IT system failed, leaving them with equipment out of place and crews timed-out or otherwise unavailable.

 

Trip Delay covers inclement weather, mechanical breakdowns and strikes. If the delay is prolonged so that the airline ceases operation or the airport closes completely for X number of hours, then other provisions of the policy are triggered. Trip Interruption and Trip Cancellation come into play for the policy holder to catch up to the trip, or failing that, to reimburse unused portion of the trip if the delay causes him to miss departure or X percentage of the trip. There are variations in wording across policies, but it works more or less like that. The initial event must be a covered reason that causes you to miss the cruise.

 

The only other option, as mentioned by the OP, is CFAR coverage. Third-party policies require notice within X hours of departure so that likely would not have helped people who got caught up in last-minute cancellations. Cruise line policies allow cancellation up to departure; however, same-day cancellation requires a sense of urgency because the manifest has already been sent to the ship by then. The policy holder must notify the cruise line and the insurance program administrator of intent to cancel in order to be on record before the ship sails. Otherwise, you are just a no-show.

Steve is the ultimate authority in questions about insurance. I defer to him for corrections and additions.

 

 

[travelberlin]

I am currently looking for an insurance which will cover all costs in case I am unable to get to my cruise port because of flight cancellations. Those flight cancellations covered should be for any reason, weather, political disturbances, strikes, etc.

 

Is there an insurance like that? I just find coverage if I or a near relative get sick, if I loose a job or have inundation at home.

 

Ivi

[Babr]

20 minutes ago, travelberlin said:

I am currently looking for an insurance which will cover all costs in case I am unable to get to my cruise port because of flight cancellations. Those flight cancellations covered should be for any reason, weather, political disturbances, strikes, etc.

 

Is there an insurance like that? I just find coverage if I or a near relative get sick, if I loose a job or have inundation at home.

 

Ivi

It sounds like you are looking at the general list of covered reasons for cancellation. Trip Interruption can reimburse you for the unused portion of the trip if you miss your scheduled departure date, but it is also governed by the same list of covered reasons. Trip delay is for a temporary disruption in travel, but it can trigger other provisions as I said; however, it is also for specific reasons as noted. Some policies cover things like lost or stolen documents, but I don’t think you’ll find one that covers all conceivable possibilities.

 

Check the list of Covered Hazards in the Definitions section of the policy, then look to see how these are treated under covered reasons for Trip Delay. If you can’t find what you are looking for, call Steve directly and ask him. 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Babr

[klfrodo]

Well, if I were looking for protection for every conceivable possibility, I would

1. Buy fully refundable airline tickets from an airline that has interline agreements in place.

2. Buy the cruise line policy that has a generous CFAR so I could cancel minutes before the ships scheduled departure.

3. Buy a generous 3rd party policy that has better coverage than the cruise line policy with medical as primary.

 

However, IMO, this would be overkill. It will probably be another 20 years before this recent fiasco at WN happens again.

Edited December 31, 2022 by klfrodo

[klfrodo]

For giggles (or S&G's) I thought I would pose this question to Chat GBT since this is a hot topic these days.

My question that I typed in was 

What kind of travel insurance would have covered this weeks Southwest Airlines fiasco

 

The answer Chatgbt provided was

There are several types of travel insurance that could potentially cover disruptions like the Southwest Airlines fiasco you mentioned. One type is trip cancellation insurance, which can reimburse you for non-refundable trip expenses if you have to cancel your trip due to certain covered reasons. Another type is trip interruption insurance, which can cover the cost of additional transportation expenses if you need to interrupt your trip due to a covered reason. There are also travel delay insurance policies that can provide coverage for reasonable additional accommodations and transportation expenses if your trip is delayed for a certain number of hours due to certain covered reasons.

It's important to note that different travel insurance policies have different coverage terms, exclusions, and limits, so it's essential to carefully review the policy language to understand what is and is not covered. It's also a good idea to purchase travel insurance as soon as you book your trip, as some policies have time limits on when you can purchase coverage.

 

[iamtrustworthy]

On 12/30/2022 at 4:16 PM, Willwils said:

Well, we are going a day early to FLL for our RCL cruise end of Jan'2023.. Except for being  worried if it could happens to us,, so far we are unaffected since we 're a month  away for our cruise & flying  SOUTHWEST. Travel insurance  agent says that our Nationwide policy would NOT have covered us for cruise losses had we missed the cruise due to the Sothwest screw-up. That's  because it wasn't a plane's mechanical failure. But, they don't care that it was in part a SYSTEM FAILURE. Except for a CFAR policy, I wonder if any other brand insurance would cover any cruise loss from  SOUTHWEST debacle? Agent wouldn't  answer that question. For future knowledge, what your thought? 

Hi Willwils,

 

I don't offer Nationwide, but I'm surprised that your Travel insurance agent said it doesn't cover "Common Carrier" delays. The policy wording for their Choice Cruise and Luxury Cruise plans both state:

 

"TRIP DELAY
The Company will reimburse You for Covered Trip Delay Expenses, up to the Maximum Benefit shown on the Schedule of Benefits, if You are delayed, while coverage is in effect, en route to or from the Trip for six (6) or more hours due to a defined Hazard.

 

Hazard means:
a) Any delay of a Common Carrier (including Inclement Weather);"

 

Steve Dasseos

[Babr]

The Maximum Benefit shown in the Schedule of Benefits  for Trip Delay is $500. It did not trigger the Trip Interruption provision because it did not cause a complete cessation of services for 24 hours.

[Willwils]

Thanks for the replies. However, we purchased the cheaper Nationwide "Essential" policy. It states Travel Delay for 6+hours of $150/day up to $600 max, per person. 

[Willwils]

WAIT..... I just found the details of the policy. For TRIP DELAY, it shows:

The Company will reimburse You for Covered Trip Delay Expenses, up to the Maximum Benefit shown on the Schedule 
of Benefits, if You are delayed, while coverage is in effect, en route to or from the Trip for six (6) or more hours due to a defined Hazard. Covered Trip Delay Expenses:
(a) Any Reasonable Expenses incurred;
(b) An Economy Fare from the point where You ended Your Trip to a destination where You can catch up to the Trip; 
(c) A one-way Economy Fare to return You to Your originally scheduled return destination. 

Nationwide policy definition of HAZARD is:

Hazard means:
a) Any delay of a Common Carrier (including Inclement Weather);
b) Any delay by a traffic Accident en route to a departure, in which You or Your Traveling Companion is not directly involved;
c) Any delay due to lost or stolen passports, travel documents or money, Quarantine, hijacking, unannounced 
Strike, Natural Disaster, civil commotion or riot;
d) A closed roadway causing cessation of travel to the destination of the Trip (substantiated by the department of transportation, state police, etc.)

As I've said b4, hope we don't  need to use this insurance.

[Babr]

Your original question was about insurance that would cover your loss if you missed the cruise because of another situation like the recent Southwest problems.

 

Trip Delay does not solve that.

[Willwils]

14 hours ago, Babr said:

Your original question was about insurance that would cover your loss if you missed the cruise because of another situation like the recent Southwest problems.

 

Trip Delay does not solve that.

So, is that to say that no insurance other than perhaps(?) CFAR would cover the rece7 Southwest meltdown? That scenario meaning it caused one to miss  the sailing  of the ship. 

[Babr]

I think so because the Southwest problems were caused by IT failures that left equipment and crews out of place. That is considered under the control of the airline and is not something insurance would cover.

 

CFAR would work, but you have to be mindful of the cut-off for cancellation. Third-party policies usually require a 48 hour notice. That does not cover last minute flight cancellations.

 

Cruise line policies usually allow cancellation up to departure. Some may require 24 hour notice. In any case, you have to be aware of the terms of the policy and take timely action.

[Willwils]

2 hours ago, Babr said:

I think so because the Southwest problems were caused by IT failures that left equipment and crews out of place. That is considered under the control of the airline and is not something insurance would cover.

 

CFAR would work, but you have to be mindful of the cut-off for cancellation. Third-party policies usually require a 48 hour notice. That does not cover last minute flight cancellations.

 

Cruise line policies usually allow cancellation up to departure. Some may require 24 hour notice. In any case, you have to be aware of the terms of the policy and take timely action.

Thanks for the response. That leaves me with a poor pinion of travel  insurance. 

[Babr]

Travel insurance is as complex as any other kind of insurance people have to deal with. Like homeowner’s or car insurance, it is intended to cover unforeseen events beyond anyone’s control. While that may describe what happened from the point of view of Southwest’s customers, that is not the determination of the insurance company. 
 

They consider scheduling and staffing to be the responsibility of the airline. Other airlines were able to operate. It is just that it all happened during the holidays as extreme weather hit most of the country, making it impossible to find alternatives at the last minute.

 

People are disappointed in insurance when it does not perform as expected. That is why it is imperative to read the policy and ask questions so you know what is covered and under what conditions.
 

Not easy, for sure,  but that is what the professionals are for. Steve and his people are very helpful on a one-on-one basis. Consider consulting them the next time you need a policy.

 

 

[klfrodo]

I think many people are under the impression that travel insurance, or any insurance for that matter, covers any and all situations.

 

When I first adulted and paid out extra money for travel insurance, I was very proud of myself. Miss my flight and all I have to do is call the insurance company and they would book a new flight. Hurt myself in Jamaica, and all I had to do was show my insurance card. Thank goodness, I didn't have any issues during those days.

 

Then, I found this board. I think I have learned more about travel insurance than I ever wanted to know. But now, my kids and my friends come to me. I always give the information that I have learned over the years, then I send them to Steve and/or his website.

 

I also learned a ton from Hank and his stories. The biggest thing I learned from Hank is that any insurance is only there to share the risk. Not assume all the risk. When you make the decision to purchase insurance, you decide what risk you want to assume (self-insure), and what risk you want to share (insurance).

Edited January 2, 2023 by klfrodo