Skagway - White Pass Railway NCL

[skahead]

Going in August of this year and first time in Alaska.    On other cruises I've always booked via 3rd party tour sites; however, I've been reading that in Skagway the only way to board the train at dock is booking via the line.   Is this true?  is it worth the extra  ~20-25% in cost to book line direct to avoid the walk?    Traveling with 2 kids so trying to save some cost here and there to spend in other areas.      

 

Also is there anywhere on the form with a listing of tour providers that have some member reviews for Alaska?  I could not find it.  

[1025cruise]

Yes, the only way to board the train at the dock is via the cruise line excursion. However, it's not a long walk to the train station.

[Coral]

Yes it is true.

 

It is a nice walk to the train station though.

[GTJ]

4 hours ago, skahead said:

I've been reading that in Skagway the only way to board the train at dock is booking via the line. Is this true? Is it worth the extra  ~20-25% in cost to book line direct to avoid the walk?

Yes, true. Walking from the Broadway dock to the railroad station would be about 800 feet. Marginally longer from the other two docks. Is it worth the extra cost to avoid having to walk 800 feet? That's a value judgment only you can make.

[skahead]

That was the answer I was looking for.    If its only the length of the doc more or less then I'm fine.   Sounds like it is less then the port walk in Harvest Caye.      

 

As far as booking.   Are there any reviews on this site of the 3rd party tour operators that service this port?   Not adverts but actual user reviews?    

[FrankieJayIII]

Walk past the train station to the cemetery and waterfall.  Thank me later; walk back to the train and ride. 

[wolfie11]

3 hours ago, FrankieJayIII said:

Walk past the train station to the cemetery and waterfall.  Thank me later; walk back to the train and ride. 

I love going to the cemetary and Lower Reid Falls, but it's a 2 mile walk each way from the train station.  Easier to take the Smart bus ($3 per trip or $5 all day) to the end of town and it's a short walk from there.  You need to take the long route that goes out to Jewell Gardens and the Gold Dredge.

[oldplayer532]

We are thinking about combo excursion from Skagway. Any suggestions on train/bus or bus/train first? 

[wolfie11]

I prefer train first

[pink845]

With Princess, the difference between booking directly with the train website and the cruise line is $7.00 USD per person.   $149. USD per person with Princess, $142 USD with White Pass Railway.    Outrageous prices in either case.  Yes, it is scenic but really so pricy these days.  We have done it in the past years ago thank heavens.  We have lovely photos taken in early June when there was snow at the top and a slight breakthrough of water through the ice and I have loved looking at those photos but when we did it in August on year, those beautiful scenes could not be replicated. Sad.  Everything in downtown Skagway is less than a mile walk.  Now, with that landslide that occurred, not sure where you will be docked or if you will have to tender.  

[Eaglecw]

The Railroad dock at Skagway is still being repaired from last year’s landslide. My source told me that ships that berth at the forward end of Railroad dock will be able to disembark the ship directly onto the pier. The ships that dock at the far end of railroad pier will have to take a tender to the ferry dock at the marina. I don’t remember what he said about the train leaving from on the pier like in the years past. The slide last year did a lot of damage to the pier.

[GTJ]

1 hour ago, pink845 said:

With Princess, the difference between booking directly with the train website and the cruise line is $7.00 USD per person. $149. USD per person with Princess, $142 USD with White Pass Railway. Outrageous prices in either case. Yes, it is scenic but really so pricey these days.

Both Princess Cruises and the White Pass and Yukon Route are owned by Carnival Corporation. They are not in competition with each other for ticket sales, and regardless of the venue from which tickets are purchased, it is Carnival Corporation that is taking the money out of your pocket. In prior years, when the White Pass and Yukon Route was owned by a real railroad company, with service and fares regulated, prices were more reasonable and in line with other railroads in North America. But now being owned by Carnival Corporation, a customer base that is both highly susceptible to paying high prices for "once in a lifetime" vacations and largely ignorant of reasonable railroad fares, and few (if any) passengers who are actually seeking point-to-point railroad transportation at competitive rates, the exceptionally high fares are really no surprise.

[Coral]

11 minutes ago, GTJ said:

Both Princess Cruises and the White Pass and Yukon Route are owned by Carnival Corporation. They are not in competition with each other for ticket sales, and regardless of the venue from which tickets are purchased, it is Carnival Corporation that is taking the money out of your pocket. In prior years, when the White Pass and Yukon Route was owned by a real railroad company, with service and fares regulated, prices were more reasonable and in line with other railroads in North America. But now being owned by Carnival Corporation, a customer base that is both highly susceptible to paying high prices for "once in a lifetime" vacations and largely ignorant of reasonable railroad fares, and few (if any) passengers who are actually seeking point-to-point railroad transportation at competitive rates, the exceptionally high fares are really no surprise.

Having done the RR 2x before it was sold - IMO, the RR in Skagway has always been expensive.

[GTJ]

15 hours ago, Coral said:

Having done the RR 2x before it was sold - IMO, the RR in Skagway has always been expensive.

In earlier years the service was operated as a real railroad, an important transportation link between Skagway and Whitehorse (where it made connections with Greyhound Canada for service to and from the Canadian provinces and the "lower 48"), and fares, even if higher than many other railroads, were still in the range of being somewhat reasonable. But with the collapse of ore prices in 1982, the railroad failed and discontinued all service. When the railroad re-opened in 1988, it was not as the same important transportation link it had been before, it did not resume hauling freight, did not even provide service to and from Whitehorse but rather it became a Disneyland operation. Fares increased commensurately. For example, the fare for a round-trip excursion between Skagway and Bennett in 1972 was $21, the equivalent of $151 in 2023. But the present-day fare for the same excursion in 2023 is $255, or 69 percent higher than the 1972 fare (converting to 2023 dollars). Comparing to Amtrak, the one-way fare between New York and Pittsburgh in 1972 was $20.50, about the same as the White Pass and Yukon Route excursion; the present-day fare for the same Amtrak trip in 2023 is $66 for a "saver" ticket, or $160 for a full-fare "flexible" ticket.

 

It was in 2018 that the railroad was acquired by Carnival Corporation. Prior to that year it might have been that purchasing tickets from the railroad itself could have been less expensive, because the railroad would have avoided having to pay a commission to the cruise lines (though it still would have wanted to do so excessively in order to maintain fare integrity). But now, with Carnival controlling both the railroad and its cruise operations, there's no commission-based reason for one venue to be less expensive than the other.

 

I like railroads, and I will pay the high fares as a necessary condition for riding. But I don't like that fares are excessive, largely as a result of the railroad being able to do so by treating the service as a "cute" ride to cruise line tourists many (most?) of whom have never been on a train before. I would prefer it to be a real railroad than a Disneyland ride. Yet, if it had tried reopening in 1988 as it had been operating in the years before, then it would have again failed financially . . . being a Disneyland ride, with high prices, is what makes the railroad financially practicable. Amtrak fares are generally more reasonable because they are subsidized, and if it were to be profitable it might also have to have the same type of high fares as the White Pass and Yukon Route.

[Coral]

8 minutes ago, GTJ said:

In earlier years the service was operated as a real railroad, an important transportation link between Skagway and Whitehorse (where it made connections with Greyhound Canada for service to and from the Canadian provinces and the "lower 48"), and fares, even if higher than many other railroads, were still in the range of being somewhat reasonable. But with the collapse of ore prices in 1982, the railroad failed and discontinued all service. 

 

I went 2x in the 2000's (probably 2002 and 2005). The price was within $5 booking with the cruise line or direct with White Pass. It was an expensive excursion back then also. Probably comparable to the prices now if you factor in how much everything has gone up.

Edited April 2, 2023 by Coral

[OceanDreaming2]

We booked direct just a day ago.  We're on the Sun in May.  There was no mention you had to book through the cruiseline.  Saved about $28 for the 2 of us.

[wolfie11]

On 4/2/2023 at 3:07 PM, GTJ said:

Comparing to Amtrak, the one-way fare between New York and Pittsburgh in 1972 was $20.50, about the same as the White Pass and Yukon Route excursion; the present-day fare for the same Amtrak trip in 2023 is $66 for a "saver" ticket, or $160 for a full-fare "flexible" ticket.

I'm not quite sure what the point is of comparing the White Pass Railroad with Amtrack.  Prices were about the same in the 1970's but the White Pass was also heavily subsidized as is Amtrack.  Remember that cruise ship tourism was practically non-existent in Alaska in those days, and the train was a way to get to and from Whitehorse and the Interior to Skagway to catch a ship to the Lower 48. Many people would leave for the winter to visit family outside and workers in fisheries and the oil industry would travel north in the summer.  

 

Yes, it is now a "Disney" ride, if by Disney you mean an attraction that is not specifically for transportation from one location to another.  I would equate it to the Durango and Silverton Railway in Colorado.  Round trip from Durango to Silverton is a bit longer but costs well over $100 for the round trip. 

 

I've probably ridden the train over 50 times and I never get tired of the scenery or the history.  The trip to Bennett Lake is quite special, with a chance to walk on the end of the Chilkoot Trail and to imagine the devastation and noise as thousands of stampeders built over 7000 boats on its shore the winter of 1898. Yes, the trips are more expensive that they were in 1972, but the current trip includes a guide, a lunch, and continues on past Lake Bennett to Carcross.  Yes, it's more expensive that the Durango and Silverton trip, but it is in a unique location, maintenance is likely higher, and they operate over a much shorter season. 

 

If you go, do it for the spectacular scenery and the rather poignant history.  You won't get that on Amtrack.  

Edited April 6, 2023 by wolfie11

[david,Mississauga]

The  excursion to "Summit" can be a lot more expensive if you want the luxury class coach. It is a parlour car with 14 seats and is at the rear of the train. Some food and beverages are included.  I didn't give into the temptation on my last two calls in Skagway, but for this year I accepted the advice of a friend who highly recommended it. 

 

When I last checked there was no mention of this service on the WP&Y site. It appears it can be booked only through the cruise line. Not every train has this luxury coach. When I was last in Skagway I was told there are only two of these coaches. The tariff is $345  booked through Cunard. Some cruise lines charge a little more. I got the last available seat with the blessing of my lady wife (who will spend the equivalent in the shops). 

[GTJ]

3 hours ago, wolfie11 said:

I'm not quite sure what the point is of comparing the White Pass Railroad with Amtrak. Prices were about the same in the 1970's but the White Pass was also heavily subsidized as is Amtrak. Remember that cruise ship tourism was practically non-existent in Alaska in those days, and the train was a way to get to and from Whitehorse and the Interior to Skagway to catch a ship to the Lower 48.

I have not heard of the White Pass and Yukon Route having been subsidized. I would not dismiss it, but I am simply ignorant of the relevant facts. I would think it would have been difficult for a government subsidy, if only because the railroad passed through Alaska, British Columbia, and Yukon, and it would likely be difficult to have all three governments to agree on much; but perhaps you're referring to subsidies from the steamship lines to feed them passengers from the interior?! In any event, a comparison with Amtrak (or Via Rail Canada, for that matter) can be used to judge how White Pass and Yukon Route fares compare to ordinary railfares.

 

3 hours ago, wolfie11 said:

Yes, it is now a "Disney" ride, if by Disney you mean an attraction that is not specifically for transportation from one location to another.  I would equate it to the Durango and Silverton Railway in Colorado.  Round trip from Durango to Silverton is a bit longer but costs well over $100 for the round trip.

Yes, you have it exactly right. A ride primarily for amusement, rather than a ride for transportation. Nonetheless, passengers can use the White Pass and Yukon Route for transportation part of the way between Skagway and Whitehorse, just as the Durango and Silverton can be used for transportation between its two namesake communities.

 

3 hours ago, wolfie11 said:

I've probably ridden the train over 50 times and I never get tired of the scenery or the history.  The trip to Bennett Lake is quite special, with a chance to walk on the end of the Chilkoot Trail and to imagine the devastation and noise as thousands of stampeders built over 7000 boats on its shore the winter of 1898. Yes, the trips are more expensive that they were in 1972, but the current trip includes a guide, a lunch, and continues on past Lake Bennett to Carcross. Yes, it's more expensive that the Durango and Silverton trip, but it is in a unique location, maintenance is likely higher, and they operate over a much shorter season.

Such a great scenic trip, without doubt! I might nitpick a bit (e.g., it used to be a hot lunch served at the Bennett station instead of the cold box lunch now served on the train itself; the guides rely upon a script; passenger service used to continue beyond Carcross to Whitehorse), but a worthwhile trip for anyone with even a slight interest in rail travel!

 

3 hours ago, wolfie11 said:

If you go, do it for the spectacular scenery and the rather poignant history. You won't get that on Amtrak.  

I view the White Pass and Yukon Route as a distinct railroad, with its own scenery and attributes, and Amtrak as a different railroad, with different scenery and attributes. Is one "better" than the other? It depends on your personal needs and values. Each has its own "unique location." One of my favorite Amtrak routes is the Adirondack in winter, between New York and Montréal, so different from the Alaska trip, but so worthwhile on its own.