Danube water levels 2023 and similar topics - plus tips and info

[romanm]

Today we embarked the Magni in Komárno. It’s the same day we were supposed to get on the Baldur in Budapest so I think they are keeping up the same itinerary. The only excursion that was affected was tonight’s Budapest evening boat cruise. Our bus transfer was smooth and only 1hr15min. We had a nice lunch onboard and lots of wine lol. Not much to look at but a dock, but we are relaxing just the same.
We were moored 3 ships side by side with a walkway attaching them all together. The outermost ship left already. 
For those asking about 17th and 18th/departure date in a couple weeks, it could change a lot by then. 

Hope this helps someone. 

[Mucciano1]

Yes, when I talked to Viking on Oct 6th via email they continued  to tell me there was no change in our itinerary even though the crew in Budapest told us the boat had left and we would be driven to Komaron.  They just don't want to inform people of the change until the last minute.  Even now on the boat they refuse to tell us we are going to have to be driven from Passau to Regensburg,  and most on the boat have now found out other ways!  It would be better to know more in advance but they are afraid you will cancel.

[ikesyd]

We are due to join Avalon Envision in Budapest on the 17th, have our fingers crossed that this will be our boarding point. 

[TomSwift]

We are getting on the Envision on the 8th in Vilshofen. We hopefully will float it all the way to you in Budapest on the 17th. 

[aMN_lady]

We just finished the cruising portion of the Avalon Waterways Danube Dreams (westbound) on the Passion. (Oct 1-12) The Passion started in the Black Sea. We boarded in Budapest. They remained on the water for the entire trip. Our CD stated that Avalon disembarks in Vilshofen and then busses to Prague, with a walking tour in Regensberg en route, to avoid to inevitable low water and issues up river from Vilshofen. Due to the changing climate, Avalon has adjusted their cruises to avoid boats swaps and the like. 

We are on the bus from Regensberg to Prague as I type and the first significant rainfall on our trip is happening. If anyone is planning a holiday soon, the airalo esim was a cheap and great investment for mobile data without having to use your expensive home carrier on a daily rate. Happy and Safe Travels! Covid know no borders. Travel prepared. 

[notamermaid]

Snapshot of weather:

This says water for the Elbe basin, but also water for Austria (and every country downstream along the Danube after that). Not much for Pfelling in this photo, but as the clouds shifted in the standard direction there will have been more for the Upper Danube during the afternoon.

 

Interestingly, we have not had any rain where I am and from what I can gather there has been little in the Rhine basin overall (here: France and Germany) as the clouds formed further downstream from the Middle Rhine valley. We will see how that plays out in rising (or not) figures on the gauges.

 

For now, after the low of 241cm this morning, Pfelling has risen. The gauge says 252cm.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[notamermaid]

We saw that nice jump yesterday but it has not been followed up by much more (yet) - Pfelling gauge at 255cm.

 

notamermaid

 

[romanm]

We are cruising through Slovenia today, on our way to Vienna. The river does appear low but I believe I only noticed it because I’ve been following along with this thread… 

During our daily ship talk, the crew told us there is the probability we will have to ship swap at Passau, but that the decision comes from Viking corporation in the end. I imagine the logistics must be quite complex considering all the ships and ports. We are having a wonderful time and even with a ship swap, it’s a minor interruption. 
As for some speculation that many would’ve cancelled had they been warned, I had bought trip insurance that allowed cancellation for any reason and I still didn’t cancel. I was going on vacation hell or low water😂

So for me, as much as it is very important to be informed and know what you’re getting into, and as fascinating as the water levels, locks, and bridges all are, I would not let it deter anyone from going on this cruise. At least, this Viking experience, anyways, has been very carefully executed. Hope this helps 

[Daisi]

@romanm keep that attitude, maybe it will rub off on some of your fellow travelers. I was rather surprised how well received our new itinerary was amongst our fellow guests, having expected some grumbling. Yes, some who had early flights were a little upset to not return to the ship after the last stop (they were bussed straight to Nuremburg for a hotel for the night), but I think that was just because they didn't want to leave. 

 

Enjoy the rest of your cruise, hoping for rain at night, good weather during the day for touring for you.

[Mucciano1]

I do love how everyone is still having a good time.  My trip has been somewhat of a bore.  Missing the bend was a real downer for me.  I am not a city lover and love to see nature.  This is my second Viking cruise, the first was an Ocean Cruise.  I have decided that these are not for me.  You rush in a port and rush out,  left wanting to see more!  Unless you like sitting and talking, there is not much to do on the boat.  My biggest issue is they knew about the low water plenty early and could have informed people.  I had one of the crew tell me it will be to low for a long time because it needs so much water.  Viking should have informed us so we could make a decision on our trip.

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, Mucciano1 said:

I am not a city lover and love to see nature.

Not sure where you are now but the Wachau valley is a highlight, with smaller towns and the fabulous Melk Abbey I am sure more to your liking than the cities.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[CastleCritic]

Some rivers are more frantic pace than others, but youre always going going to dock in a city of some size.

 

Definitely on that cruise the cities (roughly) go big to small as the cruise goes on leaving from Budapest.

 

But yes river cruise ships, pretty much you get back, relax, eat, maybe go to the lounge and then sleep.  If its any comfort (probably not) I never saw the bend between Budapest and Komaron either when I did it the other way during normal water (different cruise line) , we docked  in that area and were bused to Budapest because it would have taken too long for the ship to do it and still see anything (we saw her arrive after dark).  Thats kind of the downside to cruise ships...theyre slow, sometimes they move while you are off doing excursions(and you meet them at a downstream stop, sometimes leaving again immediately), sometimes they move while youre on then.

Edited October 10, 2023 by CastleCritic

[Mucciano1]

Also really wanted to see Budapest at night!

[notamermaid]

25 minutes ago, Mucciano1 said:

Also really wanted to see Budapest at night!

I understand your disappointment.

 

On 10/8/2023 at 6:35 PM, Mucciano1 said:

They just don't want to inform people of the change until the last minute.  Even now on the boat they refuse to tell us we are going to have to be driven from Passau to Regensburg,  and most on the boat have now found out other ways!  It would be better to know more in advance but they are afraid you will cancel.

Viking really are of the opinion - per their office and we saw it in writing a few years ago on the internet - that if they get you to all the ports somehow they have delivered a great product. They are better at giving notice than until 2018 but are not that good enough that I would ever sail with them - I mean giving you time for a cancellation and so on due to water levels - even if I could put up with their payment policies.

 

3 hours ago, Mucciano1 said:

My biggest issue is they knew about the low water plenty early and could have informed people.  I had one of the crew tell me it will be to low for a long time because it needs so much water.  Viking should have informed us so we could make a decision on our trip.

Yes and no. If you phone them 24 hours before embarkation they will almost always know. If you phone them 48 hours before they will most probably know. The rain on 23/24 September was enough to last the river a few days, i.e. keep river cruise ships going. By 28 September the situation was clear in Germany, but Hungary trails behind by two to three days so around that time it will have made the situation in Slovakia predictable for what happened in that country and further downstream.

On 10/8/2023 at 6:35 PM, Mucciano1 said:

Yes, when I talked to Viking on Oct 6th via email they continued  to tell me there was no change in our itinerary even though the crew in Budapest told us the boat had left and we would be driven to Komaron. 

Of course, office personnel that is well informed can be straightforward and honest, meaning tell you if they do not know what will be on 6 October if you phone up on 5 October for example. Or be honest and tell you what is happening. Or give you the ship number to find out what is happening. I must admit that I am not so happy with what you heard via phone on 6 October.

 

To show what I mean:

 

RNW is the line considered to show that problems are imminent for river cruise ships on the German stretch of the Danube. One can assess what is going to happen further downstream... I fear that the crew member is right about the level stay low for some time.

 

For river cruising it really is important to understand that things can change for the better or the worse within hours - problem is if no one points one to that possibility. Small print of the "changes can be made at short notice" kind does not actually say what time frame "short notice" is.

 

I hope you can enjoy the many other aspects of being on a river cruise, like food and fun conversations, and while I can understand that you feel river cruising may not be for you perhaps give it a thought when you are at home and potentially look at other lines in other areas including the bike and barge options. So many choices.

 

 notamermaid

 

[kjmcneil89]

We have a Viking Romantic Danube booked October 22nd, first time river cruisers. Will they let us know ahead of time if the levels are too low and the route is changed? Or is this something they tell you on board? We will have a great time either way, just curious about what to expect.

[notamermaid]

A while ago I said I would post some historical data on river cruising on the Danube. Why do we hear so much more about low water these days? Is it more than it used to be? Are people just more aware? Is there just more reporting? It is a combination of factors I would say and I will give you some of the real hard data type. I start with water levels at Pfelling where most of the trouble usually is. The Bavarian authorities have a great feature, charts of a complete year in a good format. These are available for many years. I start with 2003 to explain how it works:

 

Important for us is the level in cm on the left. That is basically what I post like "Pfelling gauge at 300cm", etc. You can see that the year started with flooding. We can ignore this for our purposes but I explain this: the daily fluctuation is given as minimum and maximum  and evened out to give a mean which is the "Mittelwert". That is what makes the graph look blurred. So the daily figures are recorded and the year put in such a graph.

 

Now, the important figure at Pfelling is 290cm. Below that the river is too low for ships depending on the individual draft. That is important to remember. Why? It is fairly straightforward. Imagine the graph is below 290cm for four weeks in a year and almost no 135m ships sail. Now imagine the figure is always above 270cm though. Which means ships with a more favourable draft sail, those will mostly be shorter in length. Now imagine a year like 2008. How many river cruise ships of 135m length where there? You can guess, not that many. Look at 2003 and draw an imaginary line at 290cm. Several weeks are below and the river was very low. But fewer ships were deployed on the river and most of those had a lower draft than the modern ships. That will have resulted in far fewer headlines in the media naturally and fewer river cruise passengers affected that could tell of their experience. I need to mention the slight change in the river bed that has occurred since 2003 which slightly alters the navigation at Pfelling but it does not significantly alter the overall scenario.

 

A few more graphs to follow.

 

notamermaid

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by notamermaid

[notamermaid]

Pfelling gauge at 251cm. Budapest at 80cm. Continued slightly lower levels expected there until 15 October, most likely 76cm.

 

notamermaid

 

[Mucciano1]

20 hours ago, kjmcneil89 said:

We have a Viking Romantic Danube booked October 22nd, first time river cruisers. Will they let us know ahead of time if the levels are too low and the route is changed? Or is this something they tell you on board? We will have a great time either way, just curious about what to expect.

They will not inform you prior.

[Host Jazzbeau]

21 hours ago, kjmcneil89 said:

We have a Viking Romantic Danube booked October 22nd, first time river cruisers. Will they let us know ahead of time if the levels are too low and the route is changed? Or is this something they tell you on board? We will have a great time either way, just curious about what to expect.

 

1 hour ago, Mucciano1 said:

They will not inform you prior.

We have seen this summer that water levels can change so quickly that it would be counterproductive for cruise lines to give advance notice of problems that may not occur.  We have to assume [and I think it's reasonable to do so] that the cruise lines are following the forecasts closely and making alternative plans – but they won't [and IMHO shouldn't] announce them until they actually pull the trigger.

[notamermaid]

I do recall Viking passengers saying a few years ago that they were informed via e-mail prior to departure from the US that there may be itinerary changes, i.e. 24 hours before embarkation. I wonder if that is still done at least sometimes.

 

notamemaid

 

[notamermaid]

I mentioned 2008. Fifteen years ago the world of river cruising was a bit different from today. But first, the gauge at Pfelling in that year:

 

A really good year with river levels barely under 290cm and no spikes of extensive flooding. Of course that means there was nothing to report on in that year.

 

To my comment above. The fleet in that year looked different. A major difference to today is the fact that Viking longships did not exist. The only Viking ship sailing the Danube and coming close to the size of those is the Viking Helvetia built in 2006. In 2009 another large ship followed - the Viking Legend. In 2008 few ships had the full size of 135m, they varied from, well, anything really to close to 135m. And not just because of the absence of Viking longships the fleet overall was much smaller.

Some data from the Annual Report 2018 Inland Navigation In Europe. The river cruise fleet:

 

Of course, not all those in Europe sail the Danube but all can.

 

This shows how many vessels were added per year:

Of the eight ships listed on the German Wikipedia of river cruise ships as having been built in 2008 for the European market five were 110m or a little longer, only three were 135m. Note that I exclude the ships built for the Douro as by nature of that river's requirements all ships are short.

 

notamermaid

 

[rcaruso]

2 hours ago, notamermaid said:

I do recall Viking passengers saying a few years ago that they were informed via e-mail prior to departure from the US that there may be itinerary changes, i.e. 24 hours before embarkation. I wonder if that is still done at least sometimes.

 

notamemaid

 

I've seen some posts on cruise critic Viking Roll Calls that people were informed they may not be embarking from Budapest and where to meet for busing to Komaron, or if they were to embark in Regensburg. Viking sends them an e-mail blast.  For myself, in 2021 in late November we were on a Danube Waltz.  We were leaving one day before the cruise started, but that day all of Austria shut down.  We called the hotline and no help (quite rude if you ask me).  I ended up with a Viking customer service supervisor who really tried to help, but she knew nothing except if we cancelled we would lose all our $$.  So we took the flight and when we got to Frankfurt had an e-mail from Viking stating the cruise would be a go with revisions (all of Austria gone).  We did get a partial credit for another cruise and had a great time on the ship with 65 pax and 50 crew--no one caught COVID on that cruise.  But, if I had it to do over I think cancelling it would have been the right thing as Austria is a large part of that cruise.

 

For our July GE cruise this year no notice was given.  That was due to the ships before us were able to make it through Pfelling.  It was a touch and go, and the cruises after were able to go as there was more water.  July was a real crap shoot, no one could predict.

[notamermaid]

Pfelling gauge at 247cm. Cloudy day in the West, rain now sweeping over middle of Germany, that means rain for the Northern tributaries of the Danube and the Main Danube Canal.

 

notamermaid

 

[Racr]

Our cruise, Amsterdam to Budapest with Emerald Cruises starts on 21 October and we have just recieved an email advising of low water levels on the lower and upper Danube, and if it impacts our cruise, they will where possible, organise ship swaps.

No doubt this causes challenges for the cruise companies and is out of their control, so we will just go with the flow , or not as the case may be.

[Mucciano1]

17 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

We have seen this summer that water levels can change so quickly that it would be counterproductive for cruise lines to give advance notice of problems that may not occur.  We have to assume [and I think it's reasonable to do so] that the cruise lines are following the forecasts closely and making alternative plans – but they won't [and IMHO shouldn't] announce them until they actually pull the trigger.

We were told the day we boarded the ship we had a itinerary change but the company still keep responding via email there was no itinerary change.  Also, a few of the crew were very honest about the situation and told yes the levels were so low it would  take along time before they would come up enough to change anything.  Also, one of our excursions had been canceled for a week and we were not informed about it until the night before.