% of guests who remove gratuities

[FamilyCruiserUK]

16 hours ago, Ret MP said:

I understand.

 

I do want to point out, because it is not clear you know that we in the U.S. have a minimum wage as well, for all employees.  Unfortunately, for the waiters/waitresses is it embarrassingly low (that's why I have my signature the way it is).  But, some, especially higher-end establishments, pay more than the minimum wage or guarantee a wage, not many but some.  

I honestly didnt know that the US had a min wage. Its good you do but also sad that its not liveable for people and too low. I think from my pov that in the uk a waiter in a restaurant depending on age will be paid the same minimum wage as a server in a fast food restaurant. They both, take your order, get it right as a minimum and bring it to your table. Yet people only seem to tip those in restaurants? Hence why a lot people in the uk not everyone have a slight issue with tipping in general for expected service. Above and beyond yes of course we tip. But i also understand that rcl is an american focus company, so hence the graturities and added tips to the bills. 

 

Still we all enjoy cruising so it is what it is. 

 

[Kiki and The Noush]

Just my 2 cents - I think most of us can agree that the tipping structure is American.  We can probably also agree that it kind of sucks. 

 

Why oh why oh why do we have to discuss, ad nauseum, the tipping structure in the UK every time someone brings up tipping?  What on earth does the tipping structure in the UK have to do with the American style tipping system on an RC cruise?  

 

I VERY much understand the British mentality on tipping - I am an American who has been married to a Brit for 23 years.  

 

I will probably get flamed for this, but I really just don't care.

American = Capitalist

Brit = Socialist

 

Just my opinion, just my observation.  The two are never going to quite see eye to eye.  But, I digress.  Again, what on earth does the tipping culture of the UK have to do with the tipping system of an RC ship? 

 

/rant

[Ret MP]

9 minutes ago, Kiki and The Noush said:

Just my 2 cents - I think most of us can agree that the tipping structure is American.  We can probably also agree that it kind of sucks. 

 

Why oh why oh why do we have to discuss, ad nauseum, the tipping structure in the UK every time someone brings up tipping?  What on earth does the tipping structure in the UK have to do with the American style tipping system on an RC cruise?  

 

I VERY much understand the British mentality on tipping - I am an American who has been married to a Brit for 23 years.  

 

I will probably get flamed for this, but I really just don't care.

American = Capitalist

Brit = Socialist

 

Just my opinion, just my observation.  The two are never going to quite see eye to eye.  But, I digress.  Again, what on earth does the tipping culture of the UK have to do with the tipping system of an RC ship? 

 

/rant

Well, and this is not intended to be a swipe at you or your comment/opinion, this is a discussion board and it is international in nature.  I, for one, enjoy and appreciate other points of view from other cultures.  I may not agree with them, but it is theirs and I have no authority over their culture or say so in their culture.  I can only have an opinion and a discussion about it.  

 

But, yes, this topic has been discussed ad nauseam. 

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

I honestly didnt know that the US had a min wage. Its good you do but also sad that its not liveable for people and too low. I think from my pov that in the uk a waiter in a restaurant depending on age will be paid the same minimum wage as a server in a fast food restaurant. They both, take your order, get it right as a minimum and bring it to your table. Yet people only seem to tip those in restaurants? Hence why a lot people in the uk not everyone have a slight issue with tipping in general for expected service. Above and beyond yes of course we tip. But i also understand that rcl is an american focus company, so hence the graturities and added tips to the bills. 

 

Still we all enjoy cruising so it is what it is. 

 

The minimum wage in the US is intended for school age children doing after school

work; it isn’t a “living wage”. If one wants more, then one needs to do what is necessary to acquire a higher paying job. There is no shortage of opportunities. 

[RedIguana]

12 hours ago, Ret MP said:

And that may work out well for you and others like your business.  But, it is YOU that determines if a person is an employee or IC.  But, don't be wrong, it could cost you $$$$, big time. 

Actually it is the IRS that determines whether you are an IC (1099) or Employee (W-2). You do have the option to pay someone who technically qualifies as an IC as an employee, but you cannot make someone an IC who does not meet the requirements to be an IC. The major tax benefit to companies paying as IC vs W-2 is the employer portion of SS/medicare. IC pays the full (roughly) 15% themselves, W-2 employers pay 7.5% and the employee pays the other 7.5%. This is for US residents obviously.

[Ret MP]

9 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

The minimum wage in the US is intended for school age children doing after school

work Also called "Entry Level Wage"; it isn’t a “living wage”. If one wants more, then one needs to do what is necessary to acquire a higher paying job. There is no shortage of opportunities. 

Yes yes yes and yes.  Totally agree!

 

 

[Ret MP]

9 hours ago, RedIguana said:

Actually it is the IRS that determines whether you are an IC (1099) or Employee (W-2). You do have the option to pay someone who technically qualifies as an IC as an employee, but you cannot make someone an IC who does not meet the requirements to be an IC. The major tax benefit to companies paying as IC vs W-2 is the employer portion of SS/medicare. IC pays the full (roughly) 15% themselves, W-2 employers pay 7.5% and the employee pays the other 7.5%. This is for US residents obviously.

I get what you are saying and your premise is correct but it is the employer/business that makes the determination upon hiring an individual.  But, as I said earlier and below, don't be wrong.  No government agency, including the IRS, is going to hold your hand while making employment decisions.  Based on the IRS' guidance, a well-intended employer could be making an innocent mistake.  AND yes, that can be true for just about every decision made in business.  But, most other legal Human Resource decisions (State & Federal) are fairly well spelled out by the agency's regulations/laws/rules that oversee Human Resources/employment.  

 

The IRS only offers guidelines and some minimum requirements.  That's why I said a business owner had better make the right decision and it is the business decision in that an employer doesn't have to contact the IRS or anybody else to get permission to consider someone as an employee or an IC and the IRS says that the business/employer should consider all guidelines when determining if a person is an employee or an IC.  Then business owner/employer makes the decision based upon some convoluted suggestions and vague requirements, and the IRS agrees with me.  The decision makes its best-informed decision on whether a person should be an employee or an IC.  If the business owner/employer is right, no problem, if the business owner/employer is wrong, look out, fines, fees, and back taxes to the IRS, Social Security, and Medicare will follow if audited and found to be wrong.

 

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/independent-contractor-self-employed-or-employee

 

Facts that provide evidence of the degree of control and independence fall into three categories:

1. Behavioral: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?
2. Financial: Are the business aspects of the worker’s job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.)
3. Type of Relationship: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business?

 

"Businesses must weigh all these factors when determining whether a worker is an employee or independent contractor. Some factors may indicate that the worker is an employee, while other factors indicate that the worker is an independent contractor. There is no “magic” or set number of factors that “makes” the worker an employee or an independent contractor.

The keys are to look at the entire relationship and consider the extent of the right to direct and control the worker. Finally, document each of the factors used in coming up with the determination".

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Ret MP

[RedIguana]

1 hour ago, Ret MP said:

I get what you are saying and your premise is correct but it is the employer/business that makes the determination upon hiring an individual.  But, as I said earlier and below, don't be wrong.  No government agency, including the IRS, is going to hold your hand while making employment decisions.

First off, that was a well written response, and we are pretty much in agreement, so this is not a dig at you, just adding a little bit. The main reasons a business would classify someone as an IC and not an employee is either to save on taxes, benefits, or attempt to isolate themselves from liability. Any benefit an IC would gain from being an IC could still be granted by the business to an employee (such as let you do work for another company). The IRS will happily tell you whether you can employ someone as an IC. An SS8 can be filed by EITHER a worker or a business for a determination. 

 

Editing for this:

Any benefit an IC would gain from being an IC could still be granted by the business to an employee (such as let you do work for another company)

I am not taking into account true IC's in this statement that would actually have certain tax benefits from being an IC, typically in this case the "wage" being paid is much higher than a similar employee, and easily covers the self employment taxes. This statement is basically for those cases where an employer is attempting to misclassify for there own benefit

Edited March 12, 2023 by RedIguana
Any benefit an IC would gain from being an IC could still be granted by the business to an employee (such as let you do work for another company)

[IJustWantToGo36]

49 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

 

 

Editing for this:

Any benefit an IC would gain from being an IC could still be granted by the business to an employee

I do not know why htis is in a tipping thread but this ststement is incorrect

An IC writes off biz expenses and pays SE and income tax on the NET.

W-2 different rules

[RedIguana]

4 minutes ago, IJustWantToGo36 said:

I do not know why htis is in a tipping thread but this ststement is incorrect

It was in a tipping thread due to the discussion of whether some of the cruise line employees were actually employees or classified as IC's. 

 

56 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

I am not taking into account true IC's in this statement that would actually have certain tax benefits from being an IC

An IC pays SS taxes on their income, not revenue. And SS income is often higher than net income used for Fed taxes. Even as a W-2 my taxable SS is 3k higher than than fed taxes. But this conversation was really about misclassified IC's, who therefor have no Biz expenses to write off.

[FamilyCruiserUK]

19 hours ago, Kiki and The Noush said:

Just my 2 cents - I think most of us can agree that the tipping structure is American.  We can probably also agree that it kind of sucks. 

 

Why oh why oh why do we have to discuss, ad nauseum, the tipping structure in the UK every time someone brings up tipping?  What on earth does the tipping structure in the UK have to do with the American style tipping system on an RC cruise?  

 

I VERY much understand the British mentality on tipping - I am an American who has been married to a Brit for 23 years.  

 

I will probably get flamed for this, but I really just don't care.

American = Capitalist

Brit = Socialist

 

Just my opinion, just my observation.  The two are never going to quite see eye to eye.  But, I digress.  Again, what on earth does the tipping culture of the UK have to do with the tipping system of an RC ship? 

 

/rant

Everyone is entitled to their opinion hence why this is a critic board. Last time i checked RCL was a global company who have passengers from all over the world who have different cultures and experiences. Yet royal suggest, not enforce, an american style tipping culture on their ships which some cultures find difficult understanding and accepting. Yet lots of people seem to be quite aggressive verbally with others who do not follow the american tipping culture on rcl. Rightly of wrongly it dosnt matter who tips and who dosnt its up to the individual. However it is good and polite to understand the perspective from other countries and their views on it. 

As for capitalism or socialism im not really interested tbh but id rather have people earning a minimum wage then the cut throat often fake sucking up to get extra tips. If people want more money then change jobs, get education and move forward.

[Thisguylikestocruise]

20 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

The minimum wage in the US is intended for school age children doing after school

work; it isn’t a “living wage”. If one wants more, then one needs to do what is necessary to acquire a higher paying job. There is no shortage of opportunities. 

Perhaps that was true of previous generations. Yes there’s still opportunities…opportunities to be exploited, and for 2 people to be working to provide a standard of living that took 1 income in the past. 

[Ret MP]

2 hours ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion hence why this is a critic board. Last time i checked RCL was a global company who have passengers from all over the world who have different cultures and experiences. Yet royal suggest, not enforce, an american style tipping culture on their ships which some cultures find difficult understanding and accepting. Yet lots of people seem to be quite aggressive verbally with others who do not follow the american tipping culture on rcl. Rightly of wrongly it dosnt matter who tips and who dosnt its up to the individual. However it is good and polite to understand the perspective from other countries and their views on it. 

As for capitalism or socialism im not really interested tbh but id rather have people earning a minimum wage then the cut throat often fake sucking up to get extra tips. If people want more money then change jobs, get education and move forward.

Just to be clear, again, I have two daughters that worked as servers to pay for their gas money while in High School.  They worked at a restaurant that would be considered an entry-level employer establishment.  They actually loved the job and did very well, they made more than what was at the time, "minimum wage", much more, more than the other kids that were working at Burger King or the local gas station.  They did not "suck up any extra tips" from anybody else.  They worked very hard and earned the money they made, they didn't take any "extra tips" from anybody else.  As far as moving on, if they wanted to better themselves and stay in the industry, they could have built up their resume and moved on to the more high-end restaurants.  Many servers in high-end restaurants make very good money, way above the "minimum wage" and the "Living Wage" and they don't do it on the backs of anybody else.  Although there is a very small percentage of people that will try to screw over anybody else, it's just their nature.  Thankfully, my desire/opinion, they moved on to other industries (medical and electronic/IT).  I have an old vinyl album, or I used to, of Frank Sinatra where in his monolog, he jokes about how the owners of the casinos in Vagas borrowed the money to build the casinos/hotels from the cocktail waitresses.  Wait staff can do very very very well, just not at a local Waffle House, Chinese Buffet, or Ryan's Steakhouse.  If you get a 20% tip on a meal in the Waffle House vs a 20% tip at Ruth's Chris, you are going to do much much better at Ruth's Chris, right!  So, bottom line, being a waiter/ress isn't much different than most other careers, if you desire and are motivated, and kept your nose clean, you can have a very successful career.  

 

Cruise ship workers have the same opportunities and don't have to be satisfied with just being a server in Johnny Rockets, they can move to other venues, like Chops, and make much more money.  If they do well there, who knows?  The shame is that "SOME" employers won't let their employees move into management positions, regardless of their capabilities unless they have a degree.  It doesn't matter what the degree is, it could be in underwater basket weaving".  

[not-enough-cruising]

2 hours ago, Thisguylikestocruise said:

Perhaps that was true of previous generations. Yes there’s still opportunities…opportunities to be exploited, and for 2 people to be working to provide a standard of living that took 1 income in the past. 

It is just as true today as it has ever been.  The opportunities available to EVERYONE in the USA are as plentiful now as they ever were, and are more plentiful than most other countries in the world.  What has changed is the willingness for many Americans to make the sacrifices necessary to exploit this opportunities. Many citizens "want it all, and want it now"

[IJustWantToGo36]

13 hours ago, RedIguana said:

It was in a tipping thread due to the discussion of whether some of the cruise line employees were actually employees or classified as IC's. 

 

 

On a cruise ship?  IRS rules do not apply.

[not-enough-cruising]

13 minutes ago, IJustWantToGo36 said:

On a cruise ship?  IRS rules do not apply.

They do for crew members with American citizenship 

[Ret MP]

5 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

They do for crew members with American citizenship 

And U.S. residents

[IJustWantToGo36]

On 3/12/2023 at 1:11 PM, not-enough-cruising said:

They do for crew members with American citizenship 

Americans are taxed on their income worldwide however, AFAIK the ship pas cash and does not get involved in any taxation.

[not-enough-cruising]

8 hours ago, IJustWantToGo36 said:

Americans are taxed on their income worldwide however, AFAIK the ship pas cash and does not get involved in any taxation.

Your assumption may be correct, we can't seem to find any proof of W-2 VS 1099 status; however my original reply above was correct.  IRS rules do apply for US citizens regardless of where the work (on a ship or not)

Edited March 14, 2023 by not-enough-cruising

[Ret MP]

2 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Your assumption may be correct, we can't seem to find any proof of W-2 VS 1099 status; however my original reply above was correct.  IRS rules do apply for US citizens regardless of where the work (on a ship or not)

Ultimately, it is up to the individual, if he/she is a U.S. Citizen and/or a U.S. resident to report and pay taxes if owed, no matter where they work (U.S. Citizens have to report and pay no matter where they work/live). I would not be a bit surprised if the U.S. doesn't have an agreement with cruise lines that if they port in any way at U.S. Ports, they agree to follow all pertinent rules, regulations, and laws of the U.S., including the IRS', or it's just baked in the cake.   Therefore, if I'm right, the cruise line is obligated to withhold from employees' taxes if they are W-2 employees or provide an IC with a 1099 and withhold taxes if they want to. But, it is the individual's responsibility to pay self-employment taxes, report them quarterly (or whatever the current requirement(s) are), and on and on.  Also, it doesn't matter where or how (with few exceptions) an individual receives compensatory wages, they have to report it to the IRS and pay the legally assessed taxes if any.  BTW, if the cruise line fails/refuses/is ignorant of the IRS laws, the individual (U.S. Citizens and/or U.S. Residents) is still legally responsible to report and pay.  There are two certains in the U.S., taxes, and death.  

[IJustWantToGo36]

8 hours ago, Ret MP said:

 Therefore, if I'm right, the cruise line is obligated to withhold from employees' taxes if they are W-2 employees or provide an IC with a 1099 and withhold taxes if they want to. 

How does the cruise line make you an IC?  You are under the control of the captain, and once your actions can be controlled, you are not an IC.

US has treaties not agreements with cruise lines again AFAIK.  Porting does not make you subject to the rules of the country after you leave their waters.

[taglovestocruise]

21 hours ago, IJustWantToGo36 said:

Americans are taxed on their income worldwide however, AFAIK the ship pas cash and does not get involved in any taxation.

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Crew members are responsible for any taxes due to their country of origin. Only United States citizens or employees that reside in the USA will have US federal taxes deducted from their pay.

[Ret MP]

1 hour ago, IJustWantToGo36 said:

How does the cruise line make you an IC?  You are under the control of the captain, and once your actions can be controlled, you are not an IC.

US has treaties not agreements with cruise lines again AFAIK.  Porting does not make you subject to the rules of the country after you leave their waters.

I answered that but it looks like page 22 has been deleted.  LOL

[Ret MP]

22 hours ago, IJustWantToGo36 said:

How does the cruise line make you an IC?  You are under the control of the captain, and once your actions can be controlled, you are not an IC.

US has treaties not agreements with cruise lines again AFAIK.  Porting does not make you subject to the rules of the country after you leave their waters.

IC's are not told how to do their jobs, just what the minimum standard is.  For example, an IC doctor on a ship isn't told by the Captain or anyone on the ship how to do their doctoring.  Same for a cabin Steward, if an IC.  They are told to clean the cabin, not how to do it.  And both are on short-term contracts.

 

The U.S. Government doesn't have "Treaties" with businesses, only with other countries, about 200 of them a year.  The U.S. Government has rules, laws, and regulations, for those businesses that do business in the U.S.  

[Thisguylikestocruise]

On 3/12/2023 at 9:54 AM, not-enough-cruising said:

It is just as true today as it has ever been.  The opportunities available to EVERYONE in the USA are as plentiful now as they ever were, and are more plentiful than most other countries in the world.  What has changed is the willingness for many Americans to make the sacrifices necessary to exploit this opportunities. Many citizens "want it all, and want it now"

No doubt there’s QUANTITY in regards to opportunities, unemployment is at historical lows. The QUALITY of those opportunities has drastically changed overall.