% of guests who remove gratuities

[Cruiser_1977]

@Ret MP He is a retired Chief Engineer. Therefore, I assume he has experience in getting paid as a crew member. I assume this, as I doubt he worked for free 🙂

Edited March 9, 2023 by JennyB1977

[Ret MP]

1 minute ago, JennyB1977 said:

@Ret MP He is a retired Chief Engineer. Therefore, I assume he has experience in getting paid as a crew member. I assume this as I doubt he worked for free 🙂

Ya, I doubt that too.  

[Ret MP]

Oh oh oh, BTW, it is possible that he or any other crew member may have been a full-time/part-time employee of the company he worked for, received benefits, and so on.  I'm not saying that just because you are a crew member of a cruise ship, automatically makes you an IC or a full-time/part-time employee.  It depends on many legal hurdles.   

[marielco]

On 2/25/2023 at 4:40 PM, easyqueasy said:

I heard bookings in Australia the tips are included (no option for pre-paid gratuities) so no way (or need) to remove. Are there bookings from other countries that gratuities are built into the fare that people know of? I don’t know the answer but I would say it depends on where the sailings are from.

If gratuities are included in the cruise fare and are not optional then they are no longer tips they are a charge. 

[goldfish65]

% who remove gratuities on this board is roughly 13%, based on the unscientific poll I started two weeks ago. 

[gkbiiii]

I bet that tips, will soon simply be a "service charge," like NCL is charging; with even their CEO admitting, that a percentage goes to NCL directly.  Florida should pass a "truth in pricing law," for all ships leaving from the state, to have the total price include all fees, gratuities, etc., in their advertised price.  This is the one area, Virgin Voyages has a big up on the other lines. 

[FamilyCruiserUK]

16 hours ago, marielco said:

If gratuities are included in the cruise fare and are not optional then they are no longer tips they are a charge. 

All P and O cruises irrespective of the port they sail from the graturities are in the fair. What you see is what you pay. MSC sailings from the UK the graturites are also included in the fare. And your right call it for what it is a service charge. 

[Buckeyefrank100]

6 hours ago, gkbiiii said:

I bet that tips, will soon simply be a "service charge," like NCL is charging; with even their CEO admitting, that a percentage goes to NCL directly.  Florida should pass a "truth in pricing law," for all ships leaving from the state, to have the total price include all fees, gratuities, etc., in their advertised price.  This is the one area, Virgin Voyages has a big up on the other lines. 

Where did he say that?  Please present the article.  

[Ret MP]

Please don't take this as a criticism of the UK's or other countries' custom(s) of tipping.  If it works for you, so be it.  However, I really like our and Canada's method of tipping.  Now, is Royal's, et al, way of collecting gratuities in the U.S. perfect?  No, I certainly don't think so.  But, I definitely prefer the method of rewarding the service provider for personalized service and working for tips to get them from me directly by a percentage of the total bill.  I believe that if a guaranteed tip is a norm, it tends to allow servers to do as little as is allowable by the consumer and/or business.  A service provider who works for tips gets immediate feedback, positive or negative, and tends to work harder for a much better tip/reward.  A bad service provider or even a mediocre service provider will either be fired, improve, or move on to another line of work.  I start off with my intended tip being 15%, it either goes up or down from there.  I'm a good tipper, though and I usually give at least 20%.  It takes a lot for me to do less than 20%.  However, I have left a penny before.  For me, a penny is my minimum, it sends a message.  If you leave nothing, the server may think that you just forgot to leave a tip and otherwise everything was Okay.  Oh, and I do verbally let the server know how I felt about the service, good, bad, or mediocre.

[FamilyCruiserUK]

57 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Please don't take this as a criticism of the UK's or other countries' custom(s) of tipping.  If it works for you, so be it.  However, I really like our and Canada's method of tipping.  Now, is Royal's, et al, way of collecting gratuities in the U.S. perfect?  No, I certainly don't think so.  But, I definitely prefer the method of rewarding the service provider for personalized service and working for tips to get them from me directly by a percentage of the total bill.  I believe that if a guaranteed tip is a norm, it tends to allow servers to do as little as is allowable by the consumer and/or business.  A service provider who works for tips gets immediate feedback, positive or negative, and tends to work harder for a much better tip/reward.  A bad service provider or even a mediocre service provider will either be fired, improve, or move on to another line of work.  I start off with my intended tip being 15%, it either goes up or down from there.  I'm a good tipper, though and I usually give at least 20%.  It takes a lot for me to do less than 20%.  However, I have left a penny before.  For me, a penny is my minimum, it sends a message.  If you leave nothing, the server may think that you just forgot to leave a tip and otherwise everything was Okay.  Oh, and I do verbally let the server know how I felt about the service, good, bad, or mediocre.

No offence taken here from the uk point of view. I like the UK way of enforcing a minimum wage for all staff and if you want to tip extra for a good service then you do. Workers know how much they are getting each pay packet and the tips are an added benefit. So they have the option to do their job or work harder for tips but they will still have the security of a set wage. The minimum wage is set by government so workers dont work for little wage. Granted some companies do pay illegal wages but these are often found and prosecuted, hopefully. What i dont like is where its suggested/enforced to pay tips before the service or an added % added to the bill. This once again is creeping into the UK service industry. It should be the customes choice to tip and not be expected. I agree with you in rewarding the service provider for good service but it should be my decison not mandated on the bill eg 18% added for bar staff or prepaid graturities. 

[Ret MP]

2 hours ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

No offence taken here from the uk point of view. I like the UK way of enforcing a minimum wage for all staff and if you want to tip extra for a good service then you do. Workers know how much they are getting each pay packet and the tips are an added benefit. So they have the option to do their job or work harder for tips but they will still have the security of a set wage. The minimum wage is set by government so workers dont work for little wage. Granted some companies do pay illegal wages but these are often found and prosecuted, hopefully. What i dont like is where its suggested/enforced to pay tips before the service or an added % added to the bill. This once again is creeping into the UK service industry. It should be the customes choice to tip and not be expected. I agree with you in rewarding the service provider for good service but it should be my decison not mandated on the bill eg 18% added for bar staff or prepaid graturities. 

I understand.

 

I do want to point out, because it is not clear you know that we in the U.S. have a minimum wage as well, for all employees.  Unfortunately, for the waiters/waitresses is it embarrassingly low (that's why I have my signature the way it is).  But, some, especially higher-end establishments, pay more than the minimum wage or guarantee a wage, not many but some.  

[not-enough-cruising]

23 hours ago, Ret MP said:

Oh oh oh, BTW, it is possible that he or any other crew member may have been a full-time/part-time employee of the company he worked for, received benefits, and so on.  I'm not saying that just because you are a crew member of a cruise ship, automatically makes you an IC or a full-time/part-time employee.  It depends on many legal hurdles.   

This page sheds some light 

 

https://lifeofiris.com/2022/02/27/do-cruise-ship-crew-pay-taxes/

 

[Ret MP]

5 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

This page sheds some light 

 

https://lifeofiris.com/2022/02/27/do-cruise-ship-crew-pay-taxes/

 

Yep, thanks for that.  It is one of the references I looked into yesterday.  It backs up what I was saying.  But, like me, the author admits that he is not a lawyer.  The author says that he was given a W-2 at tax season.  Very possible as he may have been an actual employee, not an IC.  I know when I was an IC, I'd talk about my tax form as a W-2 when in fact it was a 1099 because not too many people know what a 1099 is or what it was used for.  Just easier to say W-2.   

[not-enough-cruising]

4 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Yep, thanks for that.  It is one of the references I looked into yesterday.  It backs up what I was saying.  But, like me, the author admits that he is not a lawyer.  The author says that he was given a W-2 at tax season.  Very possible as he may have been an actual employee, not an IC.  I know when I was an IC, I'd talk about my tax form as a W-2 when in fact it was a 1099 because not too many people know what a 1099 is or what it was used for.  Just easier to say W-2.   

I believe the author received a W-2 because she is a US citizen. 
Residents of countries other than the US wouldn’t receive any IRS documentation, but instead would receive the appropriate documentation of the taxing authority in their home country. 

[goldfish65]

5 hours ago, Ret MP said:

Please don't take this as a criticism of the UK's or other countries' custom(s) of tipping.  If it works for you, so be it.  However, I really like our and Canada's method of tipping.  Now, is Royal's, et al, way of collecting gratuities in the U.S. perfect?  No, I certainly don't think so.  But, I definitely prefer the method of rewarding the service provider for personalized service and working for tips to get them from me directly by a percentage of the total bill.  I believe that if a guaranteed tip is a norm, it tends to allow servers to do as little as is allowable by the consumer and/or business.  A service provider who works for tips gets immediate feedback, positive or negative, and tends to work harder for a much better tip/reward.  A bad service provider or even a mediocre service provider will either be fired, improve, or move on to another line of work.  I start off with my intended tip being 15%, it either goes up or down from there.  I'm a good tipper, though and I usually give at least 20%.  It takes a lot for me to do less than 20%.  However, I have left a penny before.  For me, a penny is my minimum, it sends a message.  If you leave nothing, the server may think that you just forgot to leave a tip and otherwise everything was Okay.  Oh, and I do verbally let the server know how I felt about the service, good, bad, or mediocre.

+1

 

The USA was started because people weren't happy with the establishment where they lived, just saying. 

[Ret MP]

31 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

I believe the author received a W-2 because she is a US citizen. 
Residents of countries other than the US wouldn’t receive any IRS documentation, but instead would receive the appropriate documentation of the taxing authority in their home country. 

Correct, but that's not my point or issue.  

 

I'm not disputing that she may have received a W-2 or if she is a citizen of the U.S. or not.  However, if you reside in the U.S., U.S. Citizenship or not has little to do with paying taxes in the U.S.  If you are A RESIDENT of the U.S., you have a legal obligation to pay U.S. taxes.   The big difference, which is the whole point or what I'm trying to get to, is if a worker receives a W-2 or 1099. 

 

An actual employee of a company and you are a resident of the U.S., you get a W-2, regardless of citizenship, if you reside in the U.S., you pay taxes on your income/wage/compensation for your labor.  If you are an IC you receive a 1099, and that has nothing to do with citizenship.  If you are a resident of the U.S., you pay U.S. taxes on your income/wage/compensation for your labor, regardless of citizenship.  And it has nothing to do with where you work or provide a service/profession, including on a cruise ship (serving in a war zone excluded, maybe a few others as well).   

 

Yes, non-U.S. Citizens that don't reside in the U.S. have no obligation to pay U.S. income tax. 

 

What defines who gets a W-2 or 1099 is what I'm trying to make clear, to myself.  What I'm doing here is talking (typing) out loud to myself (and anybody else that is interested).  

 

W-2 is for full-fledged employees of a firm/company/whatever.  They are told what to do and how to do it.  They generally receive some or many benefits like life insurance, hospitalization, unemployment insurance, vacation pay, social security, etc.  Taxes are withheld by the employer

1099 is for ICs.  They are given tasks but it is up to them how to perform the task(s), only given standards to achieve the company's end result(s).  They generally don't receive anything but the agreed-upon compensation.  Taxes may be withheld or may not be withheld by the employer, including social security and medicare.  https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/independent-contractor-self-employed-or-employee 

 

In fact, two people of U.S. residency working on the same ship doing the same exact job, one may be an employee, W-2, and one may be an IC, 1099.  

 

 

That's my take on this whole thing.  

[Hawkstar33]

Let Royal pay the people behind the scenes. You pay plenty to go on a trip these days. Tipping is an option for services rendered during your stay.  Amount of tip is determined by your experience, and feelings overall, about how the trip went.  We personally tip above the already taken out 18%, at Specialty restaurant. Personally hand our room attendant more then they say we should, even when having pre paid gratuities.  But still have a hard time not seeing where it goes when they just take it.  

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, Ret MP said:

Correct, but that's not my point or issue.  

 

I'm not disputing that she may have received a W-2 or if she is a citizen of the U.S. or not.  However, if you reside in the U.S., U.S. Citizenship or not has little to do with paying taxes in the U.S.  If you are A RESIDENT of the U.S., you have a legal obligation to pay U.S. taxes.   The big difference, which is the whole point or what I'm trying to get to, is if a worker receives a W-2 or 1099. 

 

An actual employee of a company and you are a resident of the U.S., you get a W-2, regardless of citizenship, if you reside in the U.S., you pay taxes on your income/wage/compensation for your labor.  If you are an IC you receive a 1099, and that has nothing to do with citizenship.  If you are a resident of the U.S., you pay U.S. taxes on your income/wage/compensation for your labor, regardless of citizenship.  And it has nothing to do with where you work or provide a service/profession, including on a cruise ship (serving in a war zone excluded, maybe a few others as well).   

 

Yes, non-U.S. Citizens that don't reside in the U.S. have no obligation to pay U.S. income tax. 

 

What defines who gets a W-2 or 1099 is what I'm trying to make clear, to myself.  What I'm doing here is talking (typing) out loud to myself (and anybody else that is interested).  

 

W-2 is for full-fledged employees of a firm/company/whatever.  They are told what to do and how to do it.  They generally receive some or many benefits like life insurance, hospitalization, unemployment insurance, vacation pay, social security, etc.  Taxes are withheld by the employer

1099 is for ICs.  They are given tasks but it is up to them how to perform the task(s), only given standards to achieve the company's end result(s).  They generally don't receive anything but the agreed-upon compensation.  Taxes may be withheld or may not be withheld by the employer, including social security and medicare.  https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/independent-contractor-self-employed-or-employee 

 

In fact, two people of U.S. residency working on the same ship doing the same exact job, one may be an employee, W-2, and one may be an IC, 1099.  

 

 

That's my take on this whole thing.  

As a business owner employing a full staff at multiple locations, I can not imagine any reason Royal would employ 1099 ICs, there is a large tax advantage to having those employees as a W-2, just as I am sure all the employees working in the Miami headquarters. 
 

Just my 2 cents. 

 

[Ret MP]

35 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

As a business owner employing a full staff at multiple locations, I can not imagine any reason Royal would employ 1099 ICs, there is a large tax advantage to having those employees as a W-2, just as I am sure all the employees working in the Miami headquarters. 
 

Just my 2 cents. 

 

I understand and I see your point as it pertains to U.S. Employees performing their jobs within U.S. boundaries, and your particular situation.  However, a 1099 IC and it payer is not held to the same employment standards as a W-2 Employee.  For example, if you offer a benefit to one "employee", example:  Health Insurance and/or Retirement, it must be given to all "employees".  ICs 1099s are not employees and therefore are not covered legally like employees' W-2s are.  

 

As stated earlier, I was a Resource Manager for a very large company that had thousands of employees spread out all over the U.S., including Puerto Rico, and the Bahamas, many years ago.  That company has now merged into a company called Standard Parking Plus.  It was many years ago and lots may have changed.  However, I do know that lots of businesses do utilize ICs almost exclusively, trucking companies to name just one example, think "owner-operators" or just direct independent contractors, like I was.  While you and your business may not see the advantage of utilizing ICs, many businesses do.  

 

Again, yes, I'm sure that the employees at the Miami Headquarters are, for the most part, if not all, "employees" W-2.  They are in the purest meaning of the words, full-time employees, receive benefits, are told where to work, how to work, how many hours to work, and get paid overtime for anything over 40, unless salaried, and so on.  Crews, for the most part, only work for a short period of time, I'm guessing for 6 months or less at a time.  Their contract ends and then they renew when they are ready to return to work.  They receive no financial or in-kind benefits and if they do, it's contained within their contract and no other IC is required by law to receive the same benefits.  They receive money for the fruits of their labor and may receive some negotiated benefits.  

Edited March 11, 2023 by Ret MP

[not-enough-cruising]

15 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

I understand and I see your point as it pertains to U.S. Employees performing their jobs within U.S. boundaries, and your particular situation.  However, a 1099 IC and it payer is not held to the same employment standards as a W-2 Employee.  For example, if you offer a benefit to one "employee", example:  Health Insurance and/or Retirement, it must be given to all "employees".  ICs 1099s are not employees and therefore are not covered legally like employees' W-2s are.  

 

As stated earlier, I was a Resource Manager for a very large company that had thousands of employees spread out all over the U.S., including Puerto Rico, and the Bahamas, many years ago.  That company has now merged into a company called Standard Parking Plus.  It was many years ago and lots may have changed.  However, I do know that lots of businesses do utilize ICs almost exclusively, trucking companies to name just one example, think "owner-operators" or just direct independent contractors, like I was.  While you and your business may not see the advantage of utilizing ICs, many businesses do.  

 

Again, yes, I'm sure that the employees at the Miami Headquarters are, for the most part, if not all, "employees" W-2.  They are in the purest meaning of the words, full-time employees, receive benefits, are told where to work, how to work, how many hours to work, and get paid overtime for anything over 40, unless salaried, and so on.  Crews, for the most part, only work for a short period of time, I'm guessing for 6 months or less at a time.  Their contract ends and then they renew when they are ready to return to work.  They receive no financial or in-kind benefits and if they do, it's contained within their contract and no other IC is required by law to receive the same benefits.  They receive money for the fruits of their labor and may receive some negotiated benefits.  

I believe viewing the non-American crew through the lens used for an American crew member is folly. 
The non-American crew would not receive W-2 nor 1099; nor would they be governed by the rules you very accurately lay out above with regards to benefits and compensation. 

[Ret MP]

1 minute ago, not-enough-cruising said:

I believe viewing the non-American crew through the lens used for an American crew member is folly. 
The non-American crew would not receive W-2 nor 1099; nor would they be governed by the rules you very accurately lay out above with regards to benefits and compensation. 

I don't know where you are coming up with this "non-American" crew stuff.  When I'm talking about W-2s or 1099s, I'm only talking about people residing in the U.S., U.S. citizens or not.  I've never said anything about non-residents/non-U.S. citizens receiving W-2s or 1099s other than they don't get them and don't owe taxes to the U.S. government.  And I've said that if a crew member is a non-U.S. citizen, but a resident of the U.S., he/she is obligated to pay taxes to the U.S., by law.  

 

Simple:

 

1.  U.S. citizens, no matter where they work, in foreign countries or not have a legal tax burden to the U.S. Government (only a few exceptions).  W-2 or 1099

2.  U.S. Residents (U.S. Citizens or not), no matter where they work, in foreign countries or not have a legal tax burden to the U.S. government (only a few exceptions)  W-2 or 1099

3.  Non-U.S. Citizens not residing in the U.S. have absolutely no legal tax obligation to the              Government of the U.S.  No W-2 or 1099 issued or required

 

Anyway, enough is enough.  I'm out unless something of new interest comes up.

[not-enough-cruising]

49 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

I don't know where you are coming up with this "non-American" crew stuff.  When I'm talking about W-2s or 1099s, I'm only talking about people residing in the U.S., U.S. citizens or not.  I've never said anything about non-residents/non-U.S. citizens receiving W-2s or 1099s other than they don't get them and don't owe taxes to the U.S. government.  And I've said that if a crew member is a non-U.S. citizen, but a resident of the U.S., he/she is obligated to pay taxes to the U.S., by law.  

 

Simple:

 

1.  U.S. citizens, no matter where they work, in foreign countries or not have a legal tax burden to the U.S. Government (only a few exceptions).  W-2 or 1099

2.  U.S. Residents (U.S. Citizens or not), no matter where they work, in foreign countries or not have a legal tax burden to the U.S. government (only a few exceptions)  W-2 or 1099

3.  Non-U.S. Citizens not residing in the U.S. have absolutely no legal tax obligation to the              Government of the U.S.  No W-2 or 1099 issued or required

 

Anyway, enough is enough.  I'm out unless something of new interest comes up.

Got it 

I wrongly assumed we were discussing the crew as a whole. 
 

I maintain my W-2 stance; it would be hard to have such a structured scheduling system with  1099, independent contractors are generally afforded greater flexibility than would be allowed on board. 

[gkbiiii]

Crew members are working in the ship registries country, NOT USA, as they are not allowed in USA under their strict Visa conditions.  

[Ret MP]

14 minutes ago, gkbiiii said:

Crew members are working in the ship registries country, NOT USA, as they are not allowed in USA under their strict Visa conditions.  

Being retired from Port Everglades, Ft. Lauderdale, Fl., I can definitely tell you that non-U.S. Crew Members have crew visas that allow them to go ashore to shop, sightsee, and transfer from cruise port to airport and Vice Versa.  Times of national emergency excepted, of course.  Like the COVID shutdown, 911, et al.  The cruise line/company can dictate who can and cannot go ashore, though.  

[Ret MP]

45 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Got it 

I wrongly assumed we were discussing the crew as a whole. 
 

I maintain my W-2 stance; it would be hard to have such a structured scheduling system with  1099, independent contractors are generally afforded greater flexibility than would be allowed on board. 

And that may work out well for you and others like your business.  But, it is YOU that determines if a person is an employee or IC.  But, don't be wrong, it could cost you $$$$, big time.  

 

Have a great night.