Trip insurance - thoughts so far

[oskidunker]

Been on 30 cruises. Never bought insurance. But maybe soon as I am getting older. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by oskidunker

[KBs mum]

US people really seem to draw the short straw when it comes to consumer protection laws and healthcare. 

It might be a good idea to include nationality in the original posts so everyone knows which legal/healthcare systems are applicable. 

[CurlerRob]

8 hours ago, oskidunker said:

Been on 30 cruises. Never bought insurance. But maybe soon as I am getting older. 

 

Actually, you have purchased insurance every time - it's called "self-underwriting". Large corporations do it all the time - it's a perfectly valid approach if you are wealthy enough to pay the bills if needed.

 

Many of us don't fit into that category and it's not a prudent strategy for us. 🍺🥌

[SempreMare]

On 3/2/2023 at 5:57 AM, CDNPolar said:

Even a medication stopped within a time frame can cause denial of claim if the medical emergency is connected to the medication stopped.

 

!!   

 

Didn't know that.

[CDNPolar]

4 hours ago, SempreMare said:

 

!!   

 

Didn't know that.

Often the policy includes a "Stable Period" and often this stable period is not definitively stated.  Some are 3 months, some are 6 months, and it could be different depending on the seriousness of the condition.

 

Inside that stable period, often they talk of "medication changes" which we all immediately think means new medication, or increase to a medication.  This also includes any reduced dosage of medication or stoppage of any medication.

 

If you are away, and you have recently reduced or stopped a medication and the event that sent you to hospital could have been prevented with the previous dose or by not stopping the medication, then you would not be covered.

 

There are many hidden gems of language in a policy that need further explanation.

 

I recently questioned an insurance company about a pre-existing condition that I have been stable for over 18 months.  Even though stable, (no symptoms, no med changes, nothing) that does not mean that if I had something happen related to that condition that I would be covered.

 

I asked if I got a Doctor's letter before travel that confirmed that I was fit to travel, and they said it would make no difference.  If I suffered an incident that took me to hospital and it was linked to an existing condition, that they would make an independent evaluation as to whether it was  "reasonable" for me to travel at that time and not anticipate any issues with the pre-existing condition.

 

Even my doctor certifying me as stable and fit to travel carries no weight.

 

There are stories out there now about people in other countries where their medical insurance has denied them out of country coverage.

 

The only thing that you can safely do is buy insurance that fully covers pre-existing conditions, or take your chances.

 

For those on here that have said they don't buy insurance, well, it is not just about your personal health.  I would never want to see this happen, but what about a traffic accident with the bus you are on when on excursion and you are injured?  You trip and fall and hit your head.  This is not about if you have a pre-existing condition or health issues before you leave home.

[flare3192]

cdnpolar we were on a river cruise where someone fell and was taken to the hospital. His wife was very upset as they did not have trip insurance and Medicare does not cover you out of the US (yes there are a few limited plans that have some coverage)  

Most policies have a preexisting condition waiver if the policy is purchased within a short time of putting any money down -- usually 2 to 3 weeks. Most of the policies require you to cover the complete cost of your trip for this but there are a few that do not per Steve at the trip insurance store. There are also some policies like geoblue which only covers medical. I do not have experience with it but have considered it.

 

L do purchase trip insurance but I do not always cover the total cost of the trip. In that case I am aware that I could lose some of the cost of the trip and accept that. What I most want is to not incur additional unexpected costs due to illness, accident or transportation (airline) issues

[CDNPolar]

21 minutes ago, flare3192 said:

cdnpolar we were on a river cruise where someone fell and was taken to the hospital. His wife was very upset as they did not have trip insurance and Medicare does not cover you out of the US (yes there are a few limited plans that have some coverage)  

Most policies have a preexisting condition waiver if the policy is purchased within a short time of putting any money down -- usually 2 to 3 weeks. Most of the policies require you to cover the complete cost of your trip for this but there are a few that do not per Steve at the trip insurance store. There are also some policies like geoblue which only covers medical. I do not have experience with it but have considered it.

 

L do purchase trip insurance but I do not always cover the total cost of the trip. In that case I am aware that I could lose some of the cost of the trip and accept that. What I most want is to not incur additional unexpected costs due to illness, accident or transportation (airline) issues

 

Thanks for this.  One thing to note is that I don't know where you are from?  USA?  I am Canada, and our insurance coverage is very different than offered in the USA.  Our standard insurance packages do not cover pre-existing conditions for medical.  Does not mean that this coverage is not available, but the standard does not cover.

 

I wonder what happened to the man that fell?  What did it cost them?  

[CurlerRob]

5 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

If you are away, and you have recently reduced or stopped a medication and the event that sent you to hospital could have been prevented with the previous dose or by not stopping the medication, then you would not be covered.

 

One more thing to add to this list, at least for Canadian coverage - if the brand of your medication changes, it can trigger a lack of "stability". 

 

Some years ago, there was a shortage of my normal BP medication, and the pharmacy was forced to fill it from another manufacturer. No change to the drug or dosage. When I checked with my insurer, they advised that because it was a different DIN number and not a "generic" substitution, it violated the stability rules.

 

I found an insurer that sold full pre-existing coverage policies.🍺🥌

[1985rz1]

On 3/2/2023 at 3:43 PM, rmalbers said:

The insurance thing is so complicated that I leave it up to my TA.  The covid thing didn't help. 

Instead of your TA, why not talk to an insurance broker like InsureMyTrip or the Insurance Store, who can walk you through the options for various policies and help you determine your needs and best options.

[KBs mum]

For UK people, we like Staysure, particularly if, like us, you have a pre existing condition to deal with

[SempreMare]

3 hours ago, CurlerRob said:

 

One more thing to add to this list, at least for Canadian coverage - if the brand of your medication changes, it can trigger a lack of "stability". 

 

Some years ago, there was a shortage of my normal BP medication, and the pharmacy was forced to fill it from another manufacturer. No change to the drug or dosage. When I checked with my insurer, they advised that because it was a different DIN number and not a "generic" substitution, it violated the stability rules.🥌

 

Oh for heaven's sake.

 

I guess there's a reason why the tallest building in a lot of cities are owned by insurance companies.

 

3 hours ago, CurlerRob said:

I found an insurer that sold full pre-existing coverage policies.🍺🥌

 

Please tell me it's Travel Insured, my current policy holder.

[SempreMare]

6 hours ago, flare3192 said:

I do purchase trip insurance but I do not always cover the total cost of the trip. 

 

That does not trigger some kind of ... rejection on covered expenses? 

Somehow I had the impression it was all or nothing, but you are probably right.

[CurlerRob]

4 minutes ago, SempreMare said:

Please tell me it's Travel Insured, my current policy holder.

 

Not in my case, but many companies will offer both "standard" and pre-existing policies- albeit at a higher price than the standard coverages. Best to check with your company or agent as to the terms of your policy. 🍺🥌

[CurlerRob]

9 minutes ago, SempreMare said:

 

That does not trigger some kind of ... rejection on covered expenses? 

Somehow I had the impression it was all or nothing, but you are probably right.

 

The option to select a maximum coverage is applicable to cancellation / interruption insurance. Medical coverages are usually dictated by the underwriter and are not selectable by the buyer (although a company may offer different medical policies with varying limits).

 

As the premium for cancellation / interruption policies is normally a percentage of the selected coverage amount, some people, like @flare3192 make the decision to contain their insurance costs by only insuring a part of the total. The insurer does not care if you choose not to insure the full value of your trip, but as flare3192 accepts, you are then on the hook for any losses that exceed the insured total. 🍺🥌

[rmalbers]

On 3/4/2023 at 11:23 AM, 1985rz1 said:

Instead of your TA, why not talk to an insurance broker like InsureMyTrip or the Insurance Store, who can walk you through the options for various policies and help you determine your needs and best options.

My TA is an expert on insurance, I don't need to waste any of my time with it.  

[rmalbers]

On 3/3/2023 at 11:01 AM, Heidi13 said:

 

How does your TA know your risk tolerances, medical conditions, etc. Do you create and provide a detailed Statement of Requirements (SoR) to your TA, so they can determine what policy best meets your needs.

 

May I suggest that sitting down with a number of local insurance brokers, to discuss your requirements and receiving quotes from them would be a better option, especially if you had to submit a significant claim. Every insurance policy, even cheap ones are excellent, until you submit a claim. From experience, it pays to have completed your research and know what is covered and more specifically, what isn't covered.

 

I know our TA very well, having used her for a number of years, but she doesn't know enough about us to recommend an insurance policy.

Because we have known her for years and have used her the whole time.   She has been part of every travel decision, (except weekend trips).

[rmalbers]

On 3/2/2023 at 5:02 PM, CDNPolar said:

 

No offence with this question, but if you leave this to your TA, and something happens that the insurance does not cover, then what?  You have left the vetting process to someone to make a decision for you and then you are blindsided?

I don't understand what you are saying.   If something happens that insurance doesn't cover then it really doesn't matter who/where I bought it from, does it? 

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, rmalbers said:

I don't understand what you are saying.   If something happens that insurance doesn't cover then it really doesn't matter who/where I bought it from, does it? 

 

Unfortunately, in our experience which insurance company you use makes a huge difference, especially when you have a claim. Some are reasonable when determining coverage, while others deny claims after searching extensively through your medical history, for the smallest details.

 

We have experienced claims approved in a few days, but 1 claim that should have been simple took 6 months, as they tried to find a loophole to deny it.

 

Every insurance policy purchased is great value, provided you don't need to submit a claim. Real value is only determined when you submit a claim, which is why I utilise the services of an insurance broker, not a travel agent, to assist in finding the right coverage with a company that has a good reputation for claims approval.

[CDNPolar]

4 hours ago, rmalbers said:

I don't understand what you are saying.   If something happens that insurance doesn't cover then it really doesn't matter who/where I bought it from, does it? 

What if you knew that certain things were not covered under one policy but were under another?  Does your TA know the intimate details of your medical history and future booked procedures and tests?

 

What I am saying here is:

 

You are not vetting the insurance policy language.  You are leaving this to someone else - a TA - that is not necessarily an insurance expert.

 

Something happens to you on a trip and you find out that you are not covered, but if you had vetted the policy yourself you would have known this, and you could have purchased a different policy that had fuller coverage.

 

You have no idea what I have uncovered in talking to insurance companies that many just take for granted are covered but are not.  Insurance language is very vague but at the same time very specific.

 

I won't get into specifics, but I have a medical procedure booked for April of this year.  My condition is medically stable, and my doctor will write a letter stating that I am stable and fit to travel.  This is the same for tests that are booked in the future.  Tests "suggest" an investigation into a condition.

 

Because of this pending procedure, the insurance company will not cover me medically even with the doctor's letter because the pending procedure takes precedent and casts doubt on any doctor letter.

 

In the end, insurance is expensive and we hope we don't have to use it.  But, let's not pay a lot for insurance that will not give us coverage for pre-existing conditions or future booked procedures, or tests.  

 

[CurlerRob]

47 minutes ago, CDNPolar said:

What if you knew that certain things were not covered under one policy but were under another?  Does your TA know the intimate details of your medical history and future booked procedures and tests?

 

What I am saying here is:

 

You are not vetting the insurance policy language.  You are leaving this to someone else - a TA - that is not necessarily an insurance expert.

 

Something happens to you on a trip and you find out that you are not covered, but if you had vetted the policy yourself you would have known this, and you could have purchased a different policy that had fuller coverage.

 

You have no idea what I have uncovered in talking to insurance companies that many just take for granted are covered but are not.  Insurance language is very vague but at the same time very specific.

 

I won't get into specifics, but I have a medical procedure booked for April of this year.  My condition is medically stable, and my doctor will write a letter stating that I am stable and fit to travel.  This is the same for tests that are booked in the future.  Tests "suggest" an investigation into a condition.

 

Because of this pending procedure, the insurance company will not cover me medically even with the doctor's letter because the pending procedure takes precedent and casts doubt on any doctor letter.

 

In the end, insurance is expensive and we hope we don't have to use it.  But, let's not pay a lot for insurance that will not give us coverage for pre-existing conditions or future booked procedures, or tests.  

 

 

Agreed. Many people are completely unaware that a scheduled test (even a simple, regular blood test) or a referral to a specialist "just for a look" are among the things that cause one to be deemed "not stable" and may preclude coverage.

 

Only the individual can make the call as to whether the additional cost for pre-existing coverage is worth it, but being well informed is critical. 🍺🥌

[deec]

I think it is VERY important to buy your trip insurance within the time frame so "pre-existing" conditions are covered. If you plan to buy insurance WHY would you NOT do this?  If we have canceled a trip  we have been able to move the insurance to another trip but I am not sure that is always possible.  We also have insured just the deposit and then increase coverage when paid in full BUT that gives us "pre-existing condition" coverage.  It also covers the "pre-existing" conditions of family members whose health may cause us to cancel a trip.

 

 

[rmalbers]

On 3/7/2023 at 2:04 PM, CDNPolar said:

What if you knew that certain things were not covered under one policy but were under another?  Does your TA know the intimate details of your medical history and future booked procedures and tests?

 

What I am saying here is:

 

You are not vetting the insurance policy language.  You are leaving this to someone else - a TA - that is not necessarily an insurance expert.

 

 

One theme I am noticing in this thread:  It seems that some people have TA's that are not insurance experts or don't trust their TA.  I don't know if this is a 'sign of the times' or not but I can assure you that there are TA's out there that are insurance experts.  How to find one in your area, I can't help you with, except to ask your friends who travel a lot and work from that list.  Having said that, I do applaud people that take on the insurance purchasing tasks themselves, that's for sure. 

[Heidi13]

16 minutes ago, rmalbers said:

One theme I am noticing in this thread:  It seems that some people have TA's that are not insurance experts or don't trust their TA.  I don't know if this is a 'sign of the times' or not but I can assure you that there are TA's out there that are insurance experts.  How to find one in your area, I can't help you with, except to ask your friends who travel a lot and work from that list.  Having said that, I do applaud people that take on the insurance purchasing tasks themselves, that's for sure. 

 

You may find that arrangement in the US, but in Canada, both travel agents and insurance agents are regulated, so they must be registered and licenced. Therefore, highly unlikely that CDNPolar and I would find a travel agent that is also licenced to sell insurance.

[rmalbers]

16 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

You may find that arrangement in the US, but in Canada, both travel agents and insurance agents are regulated, so they must be registered and licenced. Therefore, highly unlikely that CDNPolar and I would find a travel agent that is also licenced to sell insurance.

That is interesting, I had to look at that (TA selling trip insurance) because that is one of those things that would benefit both the TA and the insurance companies.  It sure looks like, according to the ACTA that is not an issue.  Anyway, (after a very brief glance) that regulation is probably a good thing to protect the consumer.  I would think that if a TA takes the time to comply with the regulation, that would/might be a sign of a good TA. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by rmalbers

[Heidi13]

18 minutes ago, rmalbers said:

That is interesting, I had to look at that (TA selling trip insurance) because that is one of those things that would benefit both the TA and the insurance companies.  It sure looks like, according to the ACTA that is not an issue.  Anyway, (after a very brief glance) that regulation is probably a good thing to protect the consumer.  I would think that if a TA takes the time to comply with the regulation, that would/might be a sign of a good TA. 

 

Our TA can give us the pro-forma policy the agency uses, but once we are over 60 and must complete forms we must deal with a licenced insurance professional to receive a quote. When all local and online brokers declined to accept the risk of our World Cruise, due to length of time and cost, she advise her agency does have a policy, but we would have to complete the forms and contact the underwriter for a quote.

 

TA's must comply with the terms of their licence, as failure to do so can result in removal of the licence and the resultant loss of employment.