Anyone worried about Mexico ?

[cccole]

33 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Have you checked your crime rate in New York City lately.  Have felt safer in tourist areas of PV , then in tourist areas of NYC.

Really?  Just NYC or other cities?  I live in L.A. and don't fear the cartels unless I were to compete with them for drug sales.  I think it's all personal experience and your recent experiences in NYC, LA, and other large U.S. cities have been different than mine.  But also I have not compared the crime rates of Mexican cities to U.S. cities.  Possibly you can provide the comparison.  I think one thing that affects my opinion is if I encounter a problem can I contact local authorities and they will respond.  Not sure this has changed in Mexico since the 1970's.  Differences of opinion are what CC is for.  Cherie  

[Guest ldtr]

44 minutes ago, cccole said:

Really?  Just NYC or other cities?  I live in L.A. and don't fear the cartels unless I were to compete with them for drug sales.  I think it's all personal experience and your recent experiences in NYC, LA, and other large U.S. cities have been different than mine.  But also I have not compared the crime rates of Mexican cities to U.S. cities.  Possibly you can provide the comparison.  I think one thing that affects my opinion is if I encounter a problem can I contact local authorities and they will respond.  Not sure this has changed in Mexico since the 1970's.  Differences of opinion are what CC is for.  Cherie  

LA Beverly Crest,  Monterey Park,   I suspect those folks did not feel that they were at risk either.

 

LA ranks 9th worst of the US Cities with 7.4 violent crimes per thousand residents.  Chances of an LA resident becoming a victim of violent crime is 1 in 135. 

 

From Numbeo.com as a comparison LA has a worse crime index and a lower safety scale.

 

Index	Los Angeles, CA	Puerto Vallarta
Crime Index:	52.53	35.64
Safety Scale:	47.47	64.36

 

In this case we are talking about risk to cruise ship passengers.   If you had and patterns of violent crime to cruise ship passengers the lines would stop going there.    These areas are safe, though I would not go away from the tourist areas and into the hills on my own.

Index	Cabo San Lucas, Baja California Sur	New York, NY
Crime Index:	44.50	49.55
Safety Scale:	55.50	50.45

 

Actually NYC is a little better than LA, but still worse than both Cabo or PV

 

Index	Houston, TX	Mazatlan
Crime Index:	63.79	40.86
Safety Scale:	36.21	59.14

 

Gee Houston looks pretty bad and even Mazatlan is better than Houston, LA, or NYC.

Edited March 14, 2023 by ldtr

[Guest ldtr]

49 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

The current Mexican President has been kind to the cartels, and it shows. Should the government ever tighten the screws on the cartels, expect vicious retaliation...

 

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/bc-travellers-hunker-down-mexican-resorts-as-cartel-violence-erupts-sinaloa-state

 

 

There was an issue when they were trying to keep the person from being taken out of Sinaloa with problems at the airport in Mazatalan.  Basically things were back to normal a couple of days later.  Was on the Discovery Princess that stopped there a week later.  I think maybe a couple of cruise ship stops were impacted on the day the arrest occured and maybe for a couple of days afterward. While clearly it was a good idea to shelter in place for that day, that was about of the extent of it.

[cccole]

Thanks so much for the stats.  Monterey Park was not the result of a cartel and police responded.

 

L.A. - 9th worst...what is the first?  Thanks for letting me know that I am not safe, maybe I should start locking my front door.  I still feel safer in L.A. than across the border.  I think we should agree to disagree on whether traveling to Mexico is as safe or safer than traveling in the U.S.   Sorry you have had unfortunate personal experiences in U.S. cities.   JMO. Cherie

 

p.s.  I have served on a jury in Federal Criminal Court of a member of the Sinaloa cartel.  Still feel safe in L.A. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by cccole

[Guest ldtr]

14 minutes ago, cccole said:

Thanks so much for the stats.  Monterey Park was not the result of a cartel and police responded.

 

L.A. - 9th worst...what is the first?  Thanks for letting me know that I am not safe, maybe I should start locking my front door.  I still feel safer in L.A. than across the border.  I think we should agree to disagree on whether traveling to Mexico is as safe or safer than traveling in the U.S.   Sorry you have had unfortunate personal experiences in U.S. cities.   JMO. Cherie

 

p.s.  I have served on a jury in Federal Criminal Court of a member of the Sinaloa cartel.  Still feel safe in L.A. 

You are the one that talked about comparable statistics.

 

The point is that most of us feel safe where we live, because we are used to it.  Based upon that it is human nature to consider risk to actually be lower than it might be.  By the same token because another area in unknown to us we tend to consider it to be higher risk, because we are not used to it.  Especially when we have media stories focusing on what are basically fairly low probability events.

 

While Monterey Park and other mass shootings are not tied to cartels (Though there was a recent case in the central valley that was cartel related.  Is it really better that most mass shootings in the US tend to be far more random and have happened in pretty any location from high end hotels, to schools, public offices.

 

The point is not that where you live is unsafe, but that the ports on the west coast of Mexico where the cruise is calling and the associated tourist areas are also pretty safe.

 

That said I would no more cross over the boarder by land at any of the Texas boarder crossings, then I would take a moon light stroll through Compton.

[cccole]

Sorry, I thought you were providing comparable statistics.  No problem if I misunderstood your post #27.

Not sure where you live but Compton doesn't scare me. (I've also lived in Texas.)  And where the ships are docking is "pretty safe" is your opinion, which is as valuable as mine.  As I and others have said to OP, be aware of your surroundings and do not wear anything flashy.  Whether I would travel or cruise to Mexico now is not important, it's being honest about the situation.  We disagree on the safety of cruise ports but that's o.k. That's what CC is for.  Cherie

Edited March 15, 2023 by cccole

[Guest ldtr]

5 minutes ago, cccole said:

Sorry, I thought you were providing comparable statistics.  No problem if I misunderstood your post #27.

Not sure where you live but Compton doesn't scare me. (I've also lived in Texas.)  And where the ships are docking is "pretty safe" is your opinion, which is as valuable as mine.  As I and others have said to OP, be aware of your surroundings and do not wear anything flashy.  Whether I would travel or cruise to Mexico now is not important, it's being honest about the situation.  We disagree on the safety of cruise ports but that's o.k. That's what CC is for.  Cherie

I did provide comparable statistics after you asked for them.

[cccole]

You're correct, in my post #26 I did ask you to give comps, whichever ones you chose to provide.  I don't have a problem admitting this.   Wishing you lots of happy stays, travels, and cruises to Mexico.  Cherie

 

p.s.  I'm sure you know that the crime reports in coastal Mexican cities are tied to the cartels?  You think all crimes are reported?  I love Disney.

Edited March 15, 2023 by cccole

[OlsSalt]

2 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

The current Mexican President has been kind to the cartels, and it shows. Should the government ever tighten the screws on the cartels, expect vicious retaliation...

 

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/bc-travellers-hunker-down-mexican-resorts-as-cartel-violence-erupts-sinaloa-state

 

 

 

A cool detachment of the issues proves the US hold more cards against Mexico, than Mexico holds against us. Clean up the cartels, on both sides of the border. 

[Vic The Parrot]

You're safer in Mexico than here in the US.

 

They don't have mass-shootings every couple months. 🙄

[cccole]

Not reported and responded to by authorities.    Living in the world of "if it doesn't affect me, it doesn't matter."  Really?  Do you really think that Mexican authorities report deaths by cartels?  Hello Disney.  I wonder how many Mexican citizens are incapacitated by the cartels daily.  Don't know, don't care....  O.K.  My preference is not to travel to Mexico but no worries for others who do.  Have fun,   Cherie 

7 minutes ago, Vic The Parrot said:

You're safer in Mexico than here in the US.

 

They don't have mass-shootings every couple months. 🙄

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by cccole

[PirateShark]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

I did provide comparable statistics after you asked for them.

 

Would you link to this statistical site?  Were going on a road trip in spring and I'd like to check out the places we plane on driving to.  Thanks in advance!

[Vic The Parrot]

4 minutes ago, cccole said:

Not reported and responded to by authorities.    Living in the world of "if it doesn't affect me, it doesn't matter."  Really?  I wonder how many Mexican citizens are incapacitated by the cartels daily.  Don't know, don't care....  O.K.  My preference is not to travel to Mexico but no worries for others who do.  Have fun,   Cherie 

 

Yeah, have fun.

[Cruisin'allovertheworld]

This thread quickly became hilarious for an Aussie. All y'all (as some of you 'folks' say) up there in North America be crazy.

OP Be alert but not alarmed.

That is how I treat every trip to North America.

That is how I treat every trip to a place I am not familiar with.

[cccole]

"Hilarious"...not so much if you vacation in Mexico or live in the southern U.S.  North Americans are crazy?  Possibly.  Awesome coming from an Australian.  I lived in Texas for a few years and never used "y"all".  Only for those born and raised in Texas.  Not alarmed is a great way to travel. When cartels are involved, OP should be alert and alarmed.    Cherie

Edited March 15, 2023 by cccole

[Cruisin'allovertheworld]

1 minute ago, cccole said:

I lived in Texas for a few years and never used "y"all".  Only for those born and raised in Texas.  Not alarmed is a great way to travel. When cartels are involved, well maybe more than "alarmed."  Cherie

I did say some 'folk', not all.

Hence alert.

 

*eyeroll*

You seem to have just a little bit of a chip on the shoulder about this issue.

[cccole]

No chip on my shoulder, I love visiting Mexico.  Unfortunately we are experiencing an increased cartel activity in Mexico that you may not be aware of.  "eyeroll" ...love it.  Happy cruising, Cherie

 

And you did say "some of you folks say".  Hilarious... I 'm not one of "you folks"..  Awesome.

Edited March 15, 2023 by cccole

[Guest ldtr]

2 hours ago, cccole said:

You're correct, in my post #26 I did ask you to give comps, whichever ones you chose to provide.  I don't have a problem admitting this.   Wishing you lots of happy stays, travels, and cruises to Mexico.  Cherie

 

p.s.  I'm sure you know that the crime reports in coastal Mexican cities are tied to the cartels?  You think all crimes are reported?  I love Disney.

In Mexico you have the cartels. in New York you have the Mob, in Southern California you have a number of gangs including the various affiliates of the Crips, the Bloods, the Mexican Mafia, the Triad, etc.  Some of which have their own links to the cartels. In general they all are responsible for a good proportion of the violent crime in their respective  areas.

 

Can find reports associated with each in their respective areas.  Getting in the way of any of them can be fatal.  Usually not an issue unless you are involved in their business.

Edited March 15, 2023 by ldtr

[Cruisin'allovertheworld]

2 hours ago, cccole said:

...Awesome coming from an Australian...

Well yeah...I mean we do have actual gun restrictions and universal health care here, so to be honest a first world country that doesn't seems pretty crazy.

 

I also find it bizarre that you're determined to paint Mexico as more dangerous than the USA, even though the facts and figures DO NOT bear this out in any way for the type of experience we are discussing.

2 hours ago, cccole said:

...Unfortunately we are experiencing an increased cartel activity in Mexico that you may not be aware of...

 

And you did say "some of you folks say".  Hilarious... I 'm not one of "you folks"..  Awesome.

I'm aware. I read the news every day. However, like ldtr says possible danger is to do with getting in the way of the cartels or dressing/behaving inappropriately for the situation you are in, presenting yourself as a possible target.

Violent gun crime (i.e. specifically targeting a person/s, with the intent to injure/kill) is higher in Mexico than the US but you're still more likely to be killed by a gun while just existing/being in a tourist destination in the US than Mexico.

 

You folks was used as the plural-referring to the many individuals that make up the mass. Not you specifically.

[HappyInVan]

7 hours ago, ldtr said:

I think maybe a couple of cruise ship stops were impacted on the day the arrest occured and maybe for a couple of days afterward. While clearly it was a good idea to shelter in place for that day, that was about of the extent of it.

 

You need to be aware that parts of Mexico are in a state of insurrection.

 

Cartels are wealthy enough to own a small army of shooters; former military and deserters from elite tactical units. They're able to deploy up-amoured convoys with 'technical' fighting vehicles. They expect 'respect' from civil authorities and the citizens.

 

These are the guys who staged the Mazatlan uprising. They own government ministers. Their territories have become 'conflict zones'.

 

Also problematic are the street gangs affiliated to cartels. They're ever expanding their reach into the business community. Taking on the swagger of their cartel superiors. Responsible for mass killings either on orders or on their own initiative.

 

The biggest threat of casual violence comes from the strays who are rejects from the gangs. Armed and drug-addled, these desperadoes are the biggest threat to the expat community and to careless visitors.

 

Stay safe!

[OlsSalt]

14 hours ago, Cruisin'allovertheworld said:

This thread quickly became hilarious for an Aussie. All y'all (as some of you 'folks' say) up there in North America be crazy.

OP Be alert but not alarmed.

That is how I treat every trip to North America.

That is how I treat every trip to a place I am not familiar with.

 

I was living in Switzerland during the US Bicentennial (1976) and the Swiss were just starting to travel to the US for tourism; not just business. Mainly to Miami or NYC at that time.

 

A Swiss friend got a chuckle after talking to his insurance agent before his first trip to America, saying AFTER  you get robbed in America, fill out these forms. Not IF you get robbed in America. 😬

 

Our "freedoms" in America do include the freedom to be rogues, as well as angels. More so today since crime is no longer well associated with subsequent capture, trial and punishment.

 

[spleenstomper]

I love Mexico. It’s one of my favorite places to go. I’m not sure about right now, but New Orleans is terrible too. 

[spleenstomper]

20 hours ago, cccole said:

Really?  Just NYC or other cities?  I live in L.A. and don't fear the cartels unless I were to compete with them for drug sales.  I think it's all personal experience and your recent experiences in NYC, LA, and other large U.S. cities have been different than mine.  But also I have not compared the crime rates of Mexican cities to U.S. cities.  Possibly you can provide the comparison.  I think one thing that affects my opinion is if I encounter a problem can I contact local authorities and they will respond.  Not sure this has changed in Mexico since the 1970's.  Differences of opinion are what CC is for.  Cherie  

Not in New Orleans for instance. Police won’t respond or won’t respond for 2 days. LE told a friend of a friend if she knew where her stolen car was to go steal it back (I am not joking). The hotel paid a tow company to go steal it back at like 4 am. The Perp had impersonated a valet parker 

Edited March 15, 2023 by spleenstomper

[HappyInVan]

1 hour ago, spleenstomper said:

Not in New Orleans for instance. Police won’t respond or won’t respond for 2 days. LE told a friend of a friend if she knew where her stolen car was to go steal it back (I am not joking). The hotel paid a tow company to go steal it back at like 4 am. The Perp had impersonated a valet parker 

Of course, there are parts of the States that we shouldn't visit. Thanks for pointing out that New Orleans is one such place. That said, I don't suppose that a gang would have a firefight with the police and NG. Nor close down the airport and city?

 

The issue here is what parts of Mexico we should avoid.

 

I'm considering a historic Baja cruise. The small coastal communities should be okay. Of course, I'm reluctant to land in Mazatlan etc. I'm not buying EXC until the last minute.

 

Enjoy the cruise!

 

 

 

[Guest ldtr]

13 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

You need to be aware that parts of Mexico are in a state of insurrection.

 

Cartels are wealthy enough to own a small army of shooters; former military and deserters from elite tactical units. They're able to deploy up-amoured convoys with 'technical' fighting vehicles. They expect 'respect' from civil authorities and the citizens.

 

These are the guys who staged the Mazatlan uprising. They own government ministers. Their territories have become 'conflict zones'.

 

Also problematic are the street gangs affiliated to cartels. They're ever expanding their reach into the business community. Taking on the swagger of their cartel superiors. Responsible for mass killings either on orders or on their own initiative.

 

The biggest threat of casual violence comes from the strays who are rejects from the gangs. Armed and drug-addled, these desperadoes are the biggest threat to the expat community and to careless visitors.

 

Stay safe!

I have been in Mazatlan 3 times since this event.  As I said earlier the Government grabbed a leader of the cartel in that area.  The cartel tried to prevent him from being taken out of the area by shooting as Mexican air force  planes at the airport They failed.  Once he was out of the area they faded back into the background.

 

The cartels know that violence in tourist areas is bad for their business, the same as the 5 families in New York, and the gangs in other cities.  High visibility violence brings crack downs.  Most of the violence in all of areas inside or outside of the US is gang on gang as well as infighting.

 

The worse areas in Mexico are areas where the Cartels leadership has been taken out resulting in splintering and fighting between the various factions.  That is basically what is happening in  Matamoros, Neuvo Loredo and Cuidad Juaraz, all of which I would not care to enter.  Other problem areas are in the more rural communities where you have low level thugs stealing trinkets from the poor via intimidation.  A problem you also have in many other countries in central america such as Honduras, Guatemala, etc.

 

The tourist areas in the west coast Mexican cruise port cities are pretty safe, as long as one is not buying drugs or other activities that would bring them in contact with criminal side.