Is this b2b2b allowed?

[tourismtessy]

Would we be able to do a cruise from Seattle to Vancouver, Vancouver to San Francisco then San Francisco to San Francisco?  They would be b2b2b on same ship.

[DallasGuy75219]

1 minute ago, tourismtessy said:

Would we be able to do a cruise from Seattle to Vancouver, Vancouver to San Francisco then San Francisco to San Francisco?  They would be b2b2b on same ship.

Not without a call in a distant foreign port.  CBP would view that as a cruise from Seattle to San Francisco under the PVSA.

 

However you could do the second and third legs as a B2B.

[chicgotgame]

27 minutes ago, tourismtessy said:

Would we be able to do a cruise from Seattle to Vancouver, Vancouver to San Francisco then San Francisco to San Francisco?  They would be b2b2b on same ship.

No it violates the PVSA on the 2nd leg. They view it as individual segments not the whole voyage. 

[57eric]

3 minutes ago, chicgotgame said:

No it violates the PVSA on the 2nd leg. They view it as individual segments not the whole voyage. 

I'm no expert, but it seems to me the problem is on the first leg, not the second.

[neverbeenhere]

Look for another ship to take you back to SFO.

[tourismtessy]

Thanks for your responses.  Makes me sad as that would have been a great 13 day trip.

[chicgotgame]

I had a similar booking for April/May 2023. LA to Vancouver then Vancouver to Seattle and customer service called and said I had to cancel the Vancouver to Seattle leg as it was in violation. 

[Blondilu]

Are you asking about the Coastal Cruises?  I've thought about doing this myself.

 

I'm no expert either, but it seems to me each individual segment is in complete compliance with PVSA.  

 

The first portion is Seattle to Vancouver, and the second is Vancouver to San Francisco.  Neither one are round trip from a US port so PVSA doesn't apply?  Isn't that how it works?  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

And the San Francisco roundtrip has a stop in Mexico.  In fact, all of the rountrips out of San Francisco have foreign port stops.  

[chicgotgame]

Nope they booked me then cancelled. Each cruise is viewed separately so it is a violation. 

[Guest ldtr]

20 minutes ago, Blondilu said:

Are you asking about the Coastal Cruises?  I've thought about doing this myself.

 

I'm no expert either, but it seems to me each individual segment is in complete compliance with PVSA.  

 

The first portion is Seattle to Vancouver, and the second is Vancouver to San Francisco.  Neither one are round trip from a US port so PVSA doesn't apply?  Isn't that how it works?  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

And the San Francisco roundtrip has a stop in Mexico.  In fact, all of the rountrips out of San Francisco have foreign port stops.  

The problem is that when you take b2b cruises on the same ship the decision is based upon the initial embarkation port and the final disembarkation port.  In this case it is a Seattle to San Francisco cruise and without a far distant port (a port outside of North and Central America) it is a violation.

[Guest ldtr]

16 minutes ago, chicgotgame said:

Nope they booked me then cancelled. Each cruise is viewed separately so it is a violation. 

Actually the cruises are combined and viewed as one cruise.  That is why it is a violation.  Separately they are fine, that is why one can book them.  During review they are looked at as one cruise, the violation detected and the cancellation.

[chicgotgame]

Yes that is accurate, however if they looked at the whole journey including the stop in Mexico it should be ok, but they won’t get past the 2nd leg Vancouver to SF because initial cruise embarks in Seattle. 

[cruisingrob21]

Need to find a different ship combination to make this work.  I keep a calendar of these sorts of opportunities and its possible to make a similar voyage work this spring.

 

For example, this spring you can take Celebrity Solstice from LA on to on 4/29/23, arriving in Vancouver on 5/03.  Then take the Vancouver to Seattle on the Royal Princess leaving on 5/03 and arriving on 5/6.

[VibeGuy]

1 minute ago, chicgotgame said:

Yes that is accurate, however if they looked at the whole journey including the stop in Mexico it should be ok, but they won’t get past the 2nd leg Vancouver to SF because initial cruise embarks in Seattle. 

Nope. Mexico isn’t a Distant Foreign Port as defined in CFR 4.80a.  You have to be off the North American Continental Shelf, and the closest qualifying port to the South would be in Ecuador. 

[chicgotgame]

So how are ships going to Hawaii RT from SF/LA with just a stop in Ensenada if your information is accurate.  I know Canada is not considered a distant foreign port. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by chicgotgame

[Guest ldtr]

9 minutes ago, chicgotgame said:

Yes that is accurate, however if they looked at the whole journey including the stop in Mexico it should be ok, but they won’t get past the 2nd leg Vancouver to SF because initial cruise embarks in Seattle. 

No Mexico is not considered to be a far distant port.  The closest far distant ports are South America and the ABC Islands, though I believe Fanning Island  is considered far distant as well.

[VibeGuy]

Do you embark one foreign-flagged ship in a U.S. port and disembark in another U.S. port?  YES

(This makes the voyage or series of voyages subject to examination under the PVSA, and Rule 1 is that you can’t go from one US port to another US port in one voyage or a series of voyages unless certain exemptions apply)

 

Is there a break in travel of at least 24 hours during a series of voyages where you are completely disembarked from the ship?  NO

(A little known part of the rule is that you can use the same ship if you were to spend a full 24 hours off the ship and reboard in the same or a different port) 

 

Will the voyage or series of voyages call in a Distant Foreign Port?  NO

No.  A Distant Foreign Port has to be off the North American Continental Shelf - that’s why Aruba, Bonaire and Curaçao qualify.  The closest DFP on the Eastern Pacific would be Ecuador under the provisions of CFR 4.80a

 

Result:  The itinerary can’t be offered for sale. 
 

Vancouver is lovely and all that, but the lines would rather just sail the ship from US port A to US port B without going to Vancouver.  They can’t.  They break the voyage and you can’t put it back together just because you want to.  

[VibeGuy]

11 minutes ago, chicgotgame said:

So how are ships going to Hawaii RT from SF/LA with just a stop in Ensenada if your information is accurate.  I know Canada is not considered a distant foreign port. 

The key is “round trip” - the passenger starts and ends in the same US port.  That’s allowed. It’s the fiction that allows Seattle round trip Alaska cruises - that since you start and end in the same place, you’re not ultimately being transported. 

[VibeGuy]

9 minutes ago, ldtr said:

No Mexico is not considered to be a far distant port.  The closest far distant ports are South America and the ABC Islands, though I believe Fanning Island  is considered far distant as well.

Fanning didn’t have to be Distant Foreign because those NCL sailings were closed-loop.  It was just literally the closest Foreign Port of any kind. 

[skynight]

Just to be clear. The voyage is considered as boarding in Seattle and disembarking in San Francisco. That would be a violation of the PVSA as the ship will not visit a distant foreign port. For PVSA purposes t\each leg is not considered separately as a few have posted. The entire sailing is considered as one voyage.

There is no problem with boarding in Vancouver and disembarking in S.F. That sailing is considered boarding in Canada and disembarking in S.F. which is allowed. 

[Guest ldtr]

4 minutes ago, VibeGuy said:

Fanning didn’t have to be Distant Foreign because those NCL sailings were closed-loop.  It was just literally the closest Foreign Port of any kind. 

Fanning used to be used for one way trips from the West Coast and Hawaii as well.  But the cruise lines decided that it was just not worth it because of the extra distance involved.

[chicgotgame]

So embarking in Seattle if the final cruise of the three disembarked in Seattle, instead of SF it would be ok as it’s a closed loop. 

[startedwithamouse]

1 hour ago, tourismtessy said:

Would we be able to do a cruise from Seattle to Vancouver, Vancouver to San Francisco then San Francisco to San Francisco?  They would be b2b2b on same ship.

No.  You are embarking in a US port and disembarking in a US port without visiting a distant foreign port, which violates the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA).

[VibeGuy]

2 minutes ago, chicgotgame said:

So embarking in Seattle if the final cruise of the three disembarked in Seattle, instead of SF it would be ok as it’s a closed loop. 

Yes.  Closed loop and at least one call in *any* foreign port. 

[SiliconCruiser]

1 hour ago, tourismtessy said:

Would we be able to do a cruise from Seattle to Vancouver, Vancouver to San Francisco then San Francisco to San Francisco?  They would be b2b2b on same ship.

We tried that.  It was two coastal cruises, then a repo cruise to Vancouver and then back to Seattle. i.e. b2b2b2b.  We received a call from our TA with Princess on the line about a week or two later telling us that we couldn't take that last segment back to Seattle.  They did check to see if there was another ship that they could put us on, but nothing was going south at the beginning of the Alaska season.  But we found a 7 day Alaska cruise that we could take out of Vancouver a couple of days later, so we'll take a bus (not a Princess transfer) to Sea-Tac to fly home.  (Domestic flights cost a lot less than flights out of Vancouver, and we can get a non-stop flight directly to SJC. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by SiliconCruiser