Tipping on Board

[CILCIANRQTS]

3 minutes ago, THR said:

I think you’re missing the point that for some markets, tips are advertised as included and not additional. Why should we pay higher fares AND he expected to tip like your culture? Any tips are optional/discretionary and on the basis of performance. 

I’m not “expecting” you to tip anything. Do what you feel is appropriate.

[Heidi13]

5 hours ago, CILCIANRQTS said:

BUT…we’re talking about cruise ship staff, who have no protection regarding their pay and conditions of employment.

That’s why cruise lines register their ships in such unexpected countries - because they don’t require even minimal protection for the staff.

 

 

Won't comment on tipping, but I'll suggest that most cruise ship crew members have higher protection than many employees in the US service industry, based on some of the wages and conditions mentioned recently. The International Labour Organisation's MLC 2006, as amended clearly specifies the minimum employment standards for seafarers. It also specifies minimum wages, which from memory are about $650/month. I believe the US minimum wage for tipped employees is only $2.13/hr, which is less than the equivalent minimum wage of the tipped crew members.

 

The marine industry is highly regulated and all crew members have employment contracts and they sign articles of agreement, outlining employment standards. Since this is the Viking Board, I note that all Viking Ocean ships are flagged in Norway, hardly an unexpected country.

 

With the exception of Viking and a couple of others, most cruise lines flag their ships under "Flags of Convenience", which must still comply with minimum international conventions.

 

How many employees in the shoreside service industry also receive free room and board and paid transportation to/from work. The crew members on board also receive free medical/dental care, which is certainly not available to many US service industry employees.

[TV Dad]

I'm going to throw in an American's two cents and $20!

 

I was on Silversea cruise last summer where all drinks and gratuities are included in the fare.

 

On the first night, I ordered a martini, with bleu cheese stuffed olives. The bartender said the ship didn't have any bleu cheese stuffed olives. I settled for regular olives.  The next night, however, the bartender personally stuffed olives with bleu cheese for me. They were available for me every night, but only at that bar, with that bartender. I gladly tipped that bartender an extra $20.

 

So, while I understand gratuity is included in my drinks package, If I find a bartender/cocktail server on Viking, who does an excellent job (like letting my wife sample several wines before selecting a pour, or remaking a cocktail because she really didn't like the first drink she ordered, or personally stuffing my bleu cheese olives), that guy's getting an extra $20. 

 

I don't consider it throwing my money around to show how rich I am. I consider it a nice way to say thank you. And I do it discreetly. People don't see me tipping. It's a folded bill in a handshake. 

 

I grant you, I'm American. Tipping is in our culture. And I only tip for extraordinary service if gratuity is already included.  But before bashing the extra tip, consider why we're giving it.

 

Bon Voyage everyone!

[Peregrina651]

7 hours ago, TV Dad said:

But before bashing the extra tip, consider why we're giving it.

 

We aren't bashing extra tips for those who have gone above and beyond.

 

We are bashing the custom of walking up to the bar and throwing down $$$ before ever being served the first drink hoping that it will buy better service from the bartender with the unspoken message of "there is more where that came from if you treat me right."

 

[Hockeyump]

Arrogant, ugly and inappropriate.

 

[MikeyB]

But we still like you!

[CILCIANRQTS]

7 hours ago, Peregrina651 said:

 

We aren't bashing extra tips for those who have gone above and beyond.

 

We are bashing the custom of walking up to the bar and throwing down $$$ before ever being served the first drink hoping that it will buy better service from the bartender with the unspoken message of "there is more where that came from if you treat me right."

 

Let me see if I have this straight…

Tipping is a totally personal decision.

Yet I’m being told when and how much is appropriate to tip.

I get so confused sometimes…

[ropomo]

I personally do not want my cruise ship to tip. I prefer to have the ship to remain upright! 😜

[CILCIANRQTS]

19 minutes ago, ropomo said:

I personally do not want my cruise ship to tip. I prefer to have the ship to remain upright! 😜

I also tip the Captain for that - at the end of the cruise, of course!! 😉😎

[longterm]

On 4/18/2023 at 2:09 AM, TV Dad said:

I don't consider it throwing my money around to show how rich I am. I consider it a nice way to say thank you. And I do it discreetly. People don't see me tipping. It's a folded bill in a handshake.

Well said.

 

My wife and I have been fortunate in our lives, and are lucky to be able to take these great cruises and see the world. We're not "wealthy" by our most standards, but we've worked hard and now we're able to enjoy our time together.

 

We believe in paying it forward; if we go to a drive-through, we give the employee the change; if we're in the grocery store and we feel the urge, we sometimes pick up someone's bill, just for the fun of it--and it IS a lot of fun and always makes our day.

 

If I decide to tip, whether it's in the US or in the UK, it's not because I'm flaunting my money, or to try to look like I'm a bigshot--it's because I want to thank someone for a kindness, or perhaps because I sense that they're having a really bad day. It doesn't matter to me what other people think--it matters to me what my motivation is.

 

We were in Mexico a few months back; we wanted to tip one hotel employee at random, and I saw a woman in the hall at 6pm, still cleaning rooms. I asked if she'd clean our room, and without giving it a thought, gave her a 20-dollar bill. The look on her face was the highlight of our entire trip there. Best money I ever spent. Probably more than she made in a day's wages.

[KBs mum]

It's a cultural thing, the US default is to tip, the UK, NZ and Aus. default is not to tip. Sometimes US people don't tip, sometimes the rest of us do

[zalusky]

1 hour ago, longterm said:

Well said.

 

My wife and I have been fortunate in our lives, and are lucky to be able to take these great cruises and see the world. We're not "wealthy" by our most standards, but we've worked hard and now we're able to enjoy our time together.

 

We believe in paying it forward; if we go to a drive-through, we give the employee the change; if we're in the grocery store and we feel the urge, we sometimes pick up someone's bill, just for the fun of it--and it IS a lot of fun and always makes our day.

 

If I decide to tip, whether it's in the US or in the UK, it's not because I'm flaunting my money, or to try to look like I'm a bigshot--it's because I want to thank someone for a kindness, or perhaps because I sense that they're having a really bad day. It doesn't matter to me what other people think--it matters to me what my motivation is.

 

We were in Mexico a few months back; we wanted to tip one hotel employee at random, and I saw a woman in the hall at 6pm, still cleaning rooms. I asked if she'd clean our room, and without giving it a thought, gave her a 20-dollar bill. The look on her face was the highlight of our entire trip there. Best money I ever spent. Probably more than she made in a day's wages.

Except people are talking about it.  So we now know you tip thats just as bad as flashing the money.

It's a private thing IMHO.

[longterm]

24 minutes ago, zalusky said:

Except people are talking about it.  So we now know you tip thats just as bad as flashing the money.

It's a private thing IMHO.

Oh, so knowing that someone tips is "as bad as flashing the money."

 

I'll keep that in mind when I go in a restaurant next time or take a cab. If someone should see me leaving a tip on a table, then I'm "flashing the money."

 

What a ridiculous comment.

 

Yes, it's a private thing, but this ridiculous thread has gone on and on, with people finding every excuse under the sun to not be generous now and then.

 

We don't tell people when we do it; I was trying to make a point, which was clearly lost on some people.

Edited April 20, 2023 by longterm

[May B]

On 4/18/2023 at 6:11 PM, CILCIANRQTS said:

Let me see if I have this straight…

Tipping is a totally personal decision.

Yet I’m being told when and how much is appropriate to tip.

I get so confused sometimes…

I love it!

[zalusky]

12 minutes ago, longterm said:

Oh, so knowing that someone tips is "as bad as flashing the money."

 

I'll keep that in mind when I go in a restaurant next time or take a cab. If someone should see me leaving a tip on a table, then I'm "flashing the money."

 

What a ridiculous comment.

 

Yes, it's a private thing, but this ridiculous thread has gone on and on, with people finding every excuse under the sun to not be generous now and then.

 

We don't tell people when we do it; I was trying to make a point, which was clearly lost on some people.

It's private and yes people should not see you leaving money or how much!  Make assumptions all you want but its PRIVATE!

[longterm]

1 minute ago, zalusky said:

It's private and yes people should not see you leaving money or how much!  Make assumptions all you want but its PRIVATE!

So let me get this straight: you're saying that if I go into a restaurant, have my meal, and then leave a tip on the table, that's inappropriate.

 

How stupid.

[KBs mum]

1 hour ago, longterm said:

So let me get this straight: you're saying that if I go into a restaurant, have my meal, and then leave a tip on the table, that's inappropriate.

 

How stupid.

It can be, depends which country you are in, and sometimes the circumstances

[longterm]

53 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

It can be, depends which country you are in, and sometimes the circumstances

I was essentially talking about the US, but if I'm overseas and I get particularly good service, I might be inclined to thank my waiter, driver, or other service provider. 

 

I've never seen anyone turn it down yet... 🙂 If they want to sneer at me behind my back (while pocketing the cash), that's fine--none of my business. So far, I've NEVER had a dime returned to me in indignation.

 

Having played concerts all over the world, for as many as 100,000 people at a few venues, I was always very well-paid; but, if someone had walked up to me and said, "Hey, I'm going to comp a great meal for you at such-and-such restaurant." Would I be offended? I don't think so! In fact, in Japan, where tipping is not expected, that happened on many occasions, and I don't remember being offended as I snarfed the great sushi.

Edited April 20, 2023 by longterm

[KBs mum]

15 minutes ago, longterm said:

I was essentially talking about the US, but if I'm overseas and I get particularly good service, I might be inclined to thank my waiter, driver, or other service provider. 

 

I've never seen anyone turn it down yet... 🙂 If they want to sneer at me behind my back (while pocketing the cash), that's fine--none of my business. 

 

Having played concerts all over the world, for as many as 100,000 people at a few venues, I was always very well-paid; but, if someone had walked up to me and said, "Hey, I'm going to comp a great meal for you and such-and-such restaurant." Would I be offended? I don't think so! In fact, in Japan, where tipping is not expected, that happened on many occasions, and I don't remember being offended as I snarfed the great sushi.

Tipping in Japan is often regarded by the locals as offensive. They evidently had the good manners not to point out the guest's error. You may not have been offended, the question is were they?

Treating somebody to a meal is not the same as tipping

Edited April 20, 2023 by KBs mum

[longterm]

1 minute ago, KBs mum said:

Tipping in Japan is often regarded by the locals as offensive. They evidently had the good manners not to point out the guest's error. You may not have been offended, the question is were they? 

I don't know what you're referring to; I was talking about the Japanese fans giving *us* tokens of appreciation, not the other way around. Clearly, it didn't go against their sensibilities.

 

We played concerts all over Japan; in Nagasaki, for example, our JAPANESE fans took us to a local restaurant, where they put out a feast for us (same thing happened in Kobe, Kumamoto, and Osaka, to mention a few). Keep in mind that we were just paid handsomely for playing a concert for them, but they felt compelled to fete us, and for hours they treated us like royalty because they appreciated our performance.

 

No one in the restaurant was offended, while they toasted us and brought platter after platter of sushi; they appreciated the performance we'd just put on, wanted to show their appreciation, and they did so. 

 

I've traveled all over the world, and I have NEVER had anyone be offended when I showed my appreciation in an appropriate manner. 

 

This of course, ventures way off the tired topic of this worn-out thread. If I want to tip an employee on a Viking cruise, I'll do so; if I want to tip someone in a restaurant in Italy next month, I will. If they shove it back to me, it'll be the first time.

 

 

[KBs mum]

4 minutes ago, longterm said:

I don't know what you're referring to; I was talking about the Japanese fans giving *us* tokens of appreciation, not the other way around. Clearly, it didn't go against their sensibilities.

 

We played concerts all over Japan; in Nagasaki, for example, our JAPANESE fans took us to a local restaurant, where they put out a feast for us (same thing happened in Kobe, Kumamoto, and Osaka, to mention a few). Keep in mind that we were just paid handsomely for playing a concert for them, but they felt compelled to fete us, and for hours they treated us like royalty because they appreciated our performance.

 

No one in the restaurant was offended, while they toasted us and brought platter after platter of sushi; they appreciated the performance we'd just put on, wanted to show their appreciation, and they did so. 

 

I've traveled all over the world, and I have NEVER had anyone be offended when I showed my appreciation in an appropriate manner. 

 

This of course, ventures way off the tired topic of this worn-out thread. If I want to tip an employee on a Viking cruise, I'll do so; if I want to tip someone in a restaurant in Italy next month, I will. If they shove it back to me, it'll be the first time.

 

 

You misread what I said, a gift of food, either home made, or paid for, is not a tip. Adding an extra amount of cash to a payment is. 

There is a food outlet where I work, as we are in the UK tips are unusual. The occasional US tourist tips heavily, nobody offended, unless the tip is in dollars, but everyone considers the person lacking in basic social skills

[longterm]

2 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

You misread what I said, a gift of food, either home made, or paid for, is not a tip. Adding an extra amount of cash to a payment is. 

There is a food outlet where I work, as we are in the UK tips are unusual. The occasional US tourist tips heavily, nobody offended, unless the tip is in dollars, but everyone considers the person lacking in basic social skills

I think you're arguing semantics. 

 

So let me see if I understand your theory: if a loyal fan gives a musician a gift of an instrument, that's a gift, not a tip; if he were to buy him dinner, that's a gift. But if he were to give money, that would be a tip, not a gift...

 

I give up. They're all gifts.

[KBs mum]

14 minutes ago, longterm said:

I think you're arguing semantics. 

 

So let me see if I understand your theory: if a loyal fan gives a musician a gift of an instrument, that's a gift, not a tip; if he were to buy him dinner, that's a gift. But if he were to give money, that would be a tip, not a gift...

 

I give up. They're all gifts.

A gift is a gift, birthday, Christmas, whatever, can be an item or in cash. A tip is a financial addition added to an invoiced amount as an addendum to somebody's wages, or off the record, either because of service received or in the hope of securing good service in the future. 

 

We paid for a meal in a restaurant to thank the relatives who looked after our house while we were away, this is a thank you gift. 

We gave the plumber who showed up very quickly while we were away, fixed the leak and gave us a credit facility so said relatives didn't have to pay (we paid when we got back two weeks later) extra on top of the invoiced amount, this is a tip for good service

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by KBs mum

[longterm]

22 minutes ago, KBs mum said:

A gift is a gift, birthday, Christmas, whatever, can be an item or in cash. A tip is a financial addition added to an invoiced amount as an addendum to somebody's wages, or off the record, either because of service received or in the hope of securing good service in the future. 

 

We paid for a meal in a restaurant to thank the relatives who looked after our house while we were away, this is a thank you gift. 

We gave the plumber who showed up very quickly while we were away, fixed the leak and gave us a credit facility so said relatives didn't have to pay (we paid when we got back two weeks later) extra on top of the invoiced amount, this is a tip for good service

 

Nonsense. I'm done with this lunacy.

[KBs mum]

22 minutes ago, longterm said:

Nonsense. I'm done with this lunacy.

Another culture, or way of doing things in another country is not lunacy. Thinking it is shows a lack of empathy and understanding