Alaskan cruise with felony record

[Fouremco]

Cruise lines are required to submit passenger manifests a minimum of 96 hours in advance of the ship’s arrival at a Canadian port, or when the vessel departs the last foreign port. The indices checks, including US criminal records, are conducted on all passengers. If a  passenger is deemed inadmissible prior to initial embarkation, the ship will be advised and the passenger refused boarding. If the determination of the passenger's inadmissibility is made after the ship has sailed, CBSA officers would interview the passenger aboard ship at the first Canadian port. In the latter case, upon confirmation of inadmissibility and following a review of the situation, the passenger might well be escorted from the ship and returned to the US. In a case such as the OP's, the fact that he attempted to enter Canada knowing that he was inadmissible (should that be the case) would probably result in his removal in my estimation.    

[veryboredcruiser]

8 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Cruise lines are required to submit passenger manifests a minimum of 96 hours in advance of the ship’s arrival at a Canadian port, or when the vessel departs the last foreign port. The indices checks, including US criminal records, are conducted on all passengers. If a  passenger is deemed inadmissible prior to initial embarkation, the ship will be advised and the passenger refused boarding. If the determination of the passenger's inadmissibility is made after the ship has sailed, CBSA officers would interview the passenger aboard ship at the first Canadian port. In the latter case, upon confirmation of inadmissibility and following a review of the situation, the passenger might well be escorted from the ship and returned to the US. In a case such as the OP's, the fact that he attempted to enter Canada knowing that he was inadmissible (should that be the case) would probably result in his removal in my estimation.    

 

this is what i am trying to figure out. the cruise sales company said they will sell the cruise to me, but it was up to me to contact Canadian authorities. i tried to contact the authorities but have not had any luck. now i have a couple more places to contact so i will do that.

 

are you an attorney?

[Fouremco]

34 minutes ago, veryboredcruiser said:

 

this is what i am trying to figure out. the cruise sales company said they will sell the cruise to me, but it was up to me to contact Canadian authorities. i tried to contact the authorities but have not had any luck. now i have a couple more places to contact so i will do that.

 

are you an attorney?

I'm not surprised that they'd be happy to sell you the cruise and then leave it up to you to determine whether or not you could actually go. A few years ago, pre-pandemic, a foreign national attending college in the US on a student visa had no problem booking an Alaskan cruise out of Seattle that stopped in Victoria. When he went to board, he was refused because he had no visa for entry to Canada. He came to CC complaining about the cruise line not telling him he wouldn't be admitted when he first booked the cruise. As @broberts noted previously, however, "the cruise contract is quite clear that it is the responsibility of the passenger [to verify admissibility]." Good on you for looking into it beforehand.

 

Another avenue to explore in trying to determine your admissibility would be to reach out to the Canadian Consulate in Los Angeles: 

 

550 South Hope Street,

9th Floor,

Los Angeles, California, U.S.A.,

90071-2327

 

Phone: 1-844-880-6519

Email: ccs.scc@international.gc.ca

 

They may or may not be able to provide a direct response, but if not, should be able to direct you to someone who can.

 

No, I'm not an attorney.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Fouremco

[veryboredcruiser]

23 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

I'm not surprised that they'd be happy to sell you the cruise and then leave it up to you to determine whether or not you could actually go. A few years ago, pre-pandemic, a foreign national attending college in the US on a student visa had no problem booking an Alaskan cruise out of Seattle that stopped in Victoria. When he went to board, he was refused because he had no visa for entry to Canada. He came to CC complaining about the cruise line not telling him he wouldn't be admitted when he first booked the cruise. As @broberts noted previously, however, "the cruise contract is quite clear that it is the responsibility of the passenger [to verify admissibility]." Good on you for looking into it beforehand.

 

Another avenue to explore in trying to determine your admissibility would be to reach out to the Canadian Consulate in Los Angeles: 

 

550 South Hope Street,

9th Floor,

Los Angeles, California, U.S.A.,

90071-2327

 

Phone: 1-844-880-6519

Email: ccs.scc@international.gc.ca

 

They may or may not be able to provide a direct response, but if not, should be able to direct you to someone who can.

 

No, I'm not an attorney.

 

Thank you for your help.  

I will start today with another call with another attorney

Will then call the Candian authorities.

[veryboredcruiser]

thank you to everyone for their kind suggestions.

talked to 2 law firms.

they indicated that it is likely i will not be even able to board the ship.

 

the safe way (for less than 5 years after probation ending) is to apply for Temporary Travel Visa/Permit.

$200 application fee with 3 month wait

if one cannot wait, then the permit can be applied with same day decision at the departure port (slight risk for rejection and wasting cruise fare)

the permit can last for 3 years with multiple entries into Canada

 

chances are probably better if you have a business reason.

in my case, i will go visit and update an investor for our company during a vancouver stop.

the business reason has to be explained with the Canadian person(s) identified.

of course, this would probably require waiting for 3 months

it would look pretty lame to apply for a business reason from a cruise ship departure port...

 

if there is no business reason, one law firm would charge $2100 canadian to help write the explanation for my cruise.

[broberts]

Good luck.

[CDNPolar]

Don't know if you have already booked and paid for this cruise yet, but is there not an Alaska cruise that you can book that does not stop in Canada?

 

Problem solved?

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, CDNPolar said:

Don't know if you have already booked and paid for this cruise yet, but is there not an Alaska cruise that you can book that does not stop in Canada?

 

Problem solved?

The simplified version is that the US Passenger Vessel Services Act prohibits foreign ships from transporting passengers directly between two US ports. The cruise ships that sail to Alaska are all foreign-flagged and make a stop in Canada in order to meet the requirements of the law. 

[veryboredcruiser]

10 hours ago, broberts said:

Good luck.

Thanks

[veryboredcruiser]

6 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

Don't know if you have already booked and paid for this cruise yet, but is there not an Alaska cruise that you can book that does not stop in Canada?

 

Problem solved?

unfortunately no. all cruises must stop in one foreign port - forgot the reason. 

i dont know how the cruises to nowhere are allowed under this rule...

[Fouremco]

4 hours ago, veryboredcruiser said:

unfortunately no. all cruises must stop in one foreign port - forgot the reason. 

i dont know how the cruises to nowhere are allowed under this rule...

Under the PVSA, a cruise to nowhere that starts and finishes at the same US port without stopping elsewhere is permitted, and this type of cruise ran until 2015. At that point, based on its interpretation of the Immigration and Nationality Act, US CBP implemented a new ruling prohibiting such cruises by foreign flagged ship unless all crew members were American citizens or lawful permanent residents.

 

Cruises to nowhere are deemed as never leaving the US, and as foreign crew members' visas do not allow them to work in the US, they can't work on cruises to nowhere. Foreign crew members are only permitted to land in the US temporarily prior to departing from the US with their ship.

[veryboredcruiser]

2 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Under the PVSA, a cruise to nowhere that starts and finishes at the same US port without stopping elsewhere is permitted, and this type of cruise ran until 2015. At that point, based on its interpretation of the Immigration and Nationality Act, US CBP implemented a new ruling prohibiting such cruises by foreign flagged ship unless all crew members were American citizens or lawful permanent residents.

 

Cruises to nowhere are deemed as never leaving the US, and as foreign crew members' visas do not allow them to work in the US, they can't work on cruises to nowhere. Foreign crew members are only permitted to land in the US temporarily prior to departing from the US with their ship.

 

great explanation. thanks

[chengkp75]

On 5/24/2023 at 10:10 AM, CDNPolar said:

there is no physical barrier to you leaving the ship.  Once CBSA "clears" the ship, there is nothing to stop you from getting off.

This is not correct.  If CBSA prohibits a passenger from leaving the ship in Canada, security will be notified, and that passenger's sign and sail card will be flagged, and he/she will not be allowed to disembark.

[chengkp75]

14 hours ago, Fouremco said:

US CBP implemented a new ruling prohibiting such cruises by foreign flagged ship unless all crew members were American citizens or lawful permanent residents.

Close, but CBP's ruling is that the foreign crew need US work visas (with the attendant cost and paperwork) not just crew visas that they now have.  They do not need to be citizens or resident aliens. Cruises to nowhere are still allowed under the PVSA, but it is not considered financially practical for the cruise lines to obtain the work visas for all the crew, so they no longer offer them.

[veryboredcruiser]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

This is not correct.  If CBSA prohibits a passenger from leaving the ship in Canada, security will be notified, and that passenger's sign and sail card will be flagged, and he/she will not be allowed to disembark.

hello, did you used to work in the cruise industry?

[mom says]

1 hour ago, veryboredcruiser said:

hello, did you used to work in the cruise industry?

Lol. You ARE  new here. Note the avatar photo that chenkp 75 uses? He was a chief engineer on ships for many years, and is one of our most esteemed experts. 

[CDNPolar]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

This is not correct.  If CBSA prohibits a passenger from leaving the ship in Canada, security will be notified, and that passenger's sign and sail card will be flagged, and he/she will not be allowed to disembark.

 

That is all well and good to say but more than once my husband and I have mixed up our sail cards and security never noticed that we were not who we were supposed to be leaving the ship, and we went out at different times...  This is not a failsafe method.

[veryboredcruiser]

1 hour ago, mom says said:

Lol. You ARE  new here. Note the avatar photo that chenkp 75 uses? He was a chief engineer on ships for many years, and is one of our most esteemed experts. 

lol, it sounded like either an attorney or worked in the industry...

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

 

That is all well and good to say but more than once my husband and I have mixed up our sail cards and security never noticed that we were not who we were supposed to be leaving the ship, and we went out at different times...  This is not a failsafe method.

I agree with you, the routine procedure is not foolproof, but not noticing that you were using your husband's card is quite different than a scenario where his card was flagged and alarms set off when the card was scanned.

[Heidi13]

5 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

 

That is all well and good to say but more than once my husband and I have mixed up our sail cards and security never noticed that we were not who we were supposed to be leaving the ship, and we went out at different times...  This is not a failsafe method.

 

Unfortunately, when humans are involved, no system is failsafe, especially when open to single person errors. The gangway security crew is tested periodically by one of the officers (often a newly signed-on officer) testing the system by boarding with an incorrect card.

 

Woe betide the gangway crew if the boarding officer wasn't challenged. I have also seen this drill escalated to the officer, once through security making a run up the stairs towards the Bridge.

 

When Security is lax, I assume the Master & Seco are not scheduling many tests.

 

However, when a blocked pax or crew card is entered the resulting sound certainly alerts the security staff.

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, Fouremco said:

I agree with you, the routine procedure is not foolproof, but not noticing that you were using your husband's card is quite different than a scenario where his card was flagged and alarms set off when the card was scanned.

 

I disagree, as swapping cards completely negates the system, as the system only works if Gangway Security confirms each person has the correct card. The system is designed that when specific pax and/or crew cannot go ashore, their individual card is flagged accordingly. This is applicable to all crew on IPM and any crew/pax flagged by local authorities for interview.

 

If I was flagged for interview by the local authorities and took my wife's card, it would not alarm at the gangway. If the security staff do not notice the incorrect photo, I could depart the ship. I would not relish being Master and explaining to CBSA why the pax was permitted to disembark unchallenged.

 

 

[decorativesticks]

@veryboredcruiser what did you end up deciding and what ended up happening? Trying to plan a family Alaskan cruise but my brother is in the same situation.