Lagniappe: Canines on Seabourn, Carry ons on international flights, bus etiquette, etc.

[MarciAnn]

The ADA only recognizes dogs as service animals and altho there is a relatively new regulation pertaining to miniature horses, a cruise line can limit the service animals it permits to dogs only.  Cruise ships are between a rock and a hard place.  It can not ask for proof of disability nor any kind of certification pertaining to the dog. If a passenger claims he needs a service animal to assist with a disability, it must comply or face potential liability. I am sure Seabourn is not allowing dogs to fill rooms or assuage "entitled" passengers. It really has little choice under federal law.  If however, you see a service animal that is not under the control of its owner or otherwise displaying disruptive behavior  speak out to management.  It is their job to assure compliance with the rules.   

 

 

Edited July 22, 2023 by MarciAnn

[whirldcruzrs]

I believe Hobar is correct. While the ADA defintion of service animal is limited to dogs, there is a separate provision in the regulations about miniature horses but as MarciAnn points out, it does not apply to cruise ships. Rather, that provision applies to the ADA regulation for governmental/public entities, not commercial. Cruise ships are commercial. I would Ike to think MarciAnn is correct in that Seabourn is not allowing certain guests preferential treatment to flout the rules as others have suggested, it may not be Seabourn but rather the passenger himself or herself who takes advantage (“games the system”) since it is not difficult to do given the limitations on what a business may ask an individual. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by whirldcruzrs

[SLSD]

Mr. SLSD and I were talking about our June 8-25th Ovation cruise in Norway yesterday and our memories were jogged about a particular incident on an excursion in Tromso.   We were on a Seabourn excursion which included a very well done museum in that city.  Our guide, who was very personable and informed, centered his presentation at the museum on their extensive exhibit about the Sami people who are an indigenous Nordic group (think Laplanders) who have found themselves the target of discrimination across many years. 

 

There was a particular part of the exhibit which highlighted the ways in which the Samis had found connection with other groups who have struggled in the past.  The exhibit reported that the Samis had seen Che Guevara as someone who had supported indigenous groups like theirs.  Our guide pointed this out--not making any other comment about the controversial Che Guevara. 

 

Suddenly, a woman in our Seabourn excursion group began vehemently verbally attacking our guide!  She said how dare the museum or the guide present Che Guevara as a role model of any kind.  The guide had not done this--he had only pointed out that the Samis had found Che Guevara to support groups like theirs.  It got really ugly.  The woman was ranting and ranting and ranting. 

 

The rest of us in the group left the room--en masse.  We felt very sorry for our guide who was not responsible for the exhibit or for who the Samis chose to admire.  It was all made more awkward and uncomfortable by the fact that our guide had cerebral palsy and was handicapped.  It was an ugly scene.  And, you guessed it, the ranting woman was the owner of the dog on the ship.  I cannot remember at this point if the dog was with her at this time.  I think he probably  was.  

Edited July 23, 2023 by SLSD

[frantic36]

9 minutes ago, SLSD said:

It was an ugly scene.  And, you guessed it, the ranting woman was the owner of the dog on the ship.  I cannot remember at this point if the dog was with her at this time.  I think he probably  was.  

I am so sorry for the guide and yourselves who had to deal with this ugly scene. I find this willingness to yell at the messenger deplorable. I am trying to work out ways to have a better dialogue with people of opposing views and just walking away seems better than this ugly confrontation?

 

Julie

[SLSD]

9 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

I am so sorry for the guide and yourselves who had to deal with this ugly scene. I find this willingness to yell at the messenger deplorable. I am trying to work out ways to have a better dialogue with people of opposing views and just walking away seems better than this ugly confrontation?

 

Julie

In ranting at the guide, she raised her voice using a very angry tone--over and over again.  No one  else said a word.  We all just left the room.  It seemed the best thing to do.  Later, we talked to our guide and told him how sorry we were that this had happened.  We made sure he felt appreciated at the end of the tour. 

 

Sadly, this is not the first time we have witnessed Seabourn guests being really ugly to a guide.  A few years ago (pre-Covid), we were on an  Seabourn excursion in St. Petersburg.  There was a group of four guests (sadly from the United States I am embarrassed to say) who were extremely rude to our guide.  The made snarky remarks and kept telling her they wanted to go back to the ship.  It was an excellent guide and a fabulous tour, by the way.  I finally said to one of these people that WE were enjoying the tour and did NOT want to return to the ship.  We were on a 21 day cruise--but the Petersburg leg was seven days.  I do not like seven day segments--based on this experience.   

Edited July 23, 2023 by SLSD

[frantic36]

Just now, SLSD said:

We made sure he felt appreciated at the end of the tour

I suppose it is banal but a heartfelt thank you. The guide didn't deserve the abuse and it is good to know others are there for them in times like this. Some guides aren't great but this sounds like an abuse by the entitled.

[SLSD]

2 minutes ago, frantic36 said:

I suppose it is banal but a heartfelt thank you. The guide didn't deserve the abuse and it is good to know others are there for them in times like this. Some guides aren't great but this sounds like an abuse by the entitled.

I outlined another incident on a prior cruise above. I edited to add it--so you may not have seen it.   I get angry just thinking about it again.  Let's just say that not all Seabourn cruisers have decent manners--and we are not talking about mode of dress here of course.  

[markham]

SLSD,

 

This sounds like a good reason to book independent tours and avoid such foolish and crude behaviors. Life is way too short.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

 

 

[SLSD]

35 minutes ago, markham said:

SLSD,

 

This sounds like a good reason to book independent tours and avoid such foolish and crude behaviors. Life is way too short.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

 

 

We have done independent tours--and I checked into it in Norway.  Nothing was quite doable without at least a small group--and we did not know anyone else on the ship going in.  We've always done independent tours in embarkation and disembarkation ports.  I think there was a real shortage of guides in Norway.  They have pressed retired road engineers and water plant engineers into service as guides.   They were nice men and intelligent--but did not always focus on what would be most interesting to travelers.  I think the combination of the shortage of guides and the high cost of everything in Norway (the guides talked about this) made independent tours particularly expensive in Norway. 

 

One of our ship tours--in Skagen, Denmark was comprised of only 10 or 11 people.  THAT is a perfect size for a ship's tour.  Of course that is an entirely different topic from rude guests.  Rude guests are on the ship as well as on tours--so independent tours do not completely  allow you to escape that issue.  

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by SLSD

[Mauzac]

@SLSD  What an awful experience for you all and of course the Guide.  I am so glad you decent people were able to talk to the Guide afterwards.

 

We had something similar happen when we were taking in Halong Bay, Vietnam, on a junk boat.  They were such lovely guides, as we cruised around the thousands of islands and rocks.  A once in a lifetime excursion for us.  Admittedly the weather was pretty poor but one man loudly tried to get everyone to agree to cut the tour short because 'if you've seen one rock, you've seen them all'.

So embarrassing for the gentle Vietnamese tour guides and I walked out to the back of the junk and this man approached me and said... you want to go back don't you, you've had enough of this, haven't you?

I'm afraid to say, I was really quite rude to him, (he had form on the ship for endless complaining) and basically I told him to keep quiet and that he was embarrassing everyone on the junk, and no, no one wanted to go back, and then told him not to speak to me again!

It worked!  He never said another word! 

 

 

[SLSD]

53 minutes ago, Mauzac said:

@SLSD  What an awful experience for you all and of course the Guide.  I am so glad you decent people were able to talk to the Guide afterwards.

 

We had something similar happen when we were taking in Halong Bay, Vietnam, on a junk boat.  They were such lovely guides, as we cruised around the thousands of islands and rocks.  A once in a lifetime excursion for us.  Admittedly the weather was pretty poor but one man loudly tried to get everyone to agree to cut the tour short because 'if you've seen one rock, you've seen them all'.

So embarrassing for the gentle Vietnamese tour guides and I walked out to the back of the junk and this man approached me and said... you want to go back don't you, you've had enough of this, haven't you?

I'm afraid to say, I was really quite rude to him, (he had form on the ship for endless complaining) and basically I told him to keep quiet and that he was embarrassing everyone on the junk, and no, no one wanted to go back, and then told him not to speak to me again!

It worked!  He never said another word! 

 

 

Same kind of people we experienced--no appreciation for what they were seeing or its significance.  Can you say vapid?

[markham]

Mauzac,

 

Well done you! 

 

Happy and healthy sailing!