Well, I waited to get some more experience

[Nunagoras]

23 minutes ago, Waltershipman said:

For me and my DW one important point is how the heart of the ship feels.  This may be a conglomeration of ambience , customer care ,food crew and fellow passengers The happiness or lack thereof transmits to guests. A few years back on Azamara we had an extremely great trip. All staff were visible interactive warm and accomodating. The ship feel was wonderful even though the ship was older  and smaller. I will also not forget on Seabourn when we were served snacks and cocktails outside our room as an event for each neighborhood and all passengers were in hall ways greeting and sharing good feelings

 

The ❤️ of a ship is that invisible yet critical ingredient 

 

All the best

Absolutely! And this is, among many other things, why all cruise lines must to follow the generation change. The 🧡 or te ship for me might not be the same 🧡 of the ship for you, but one can capture what the average 🧡 of the ship maybe for a whole generation.

 

I seriously doubt Azamara as being relevant for next gen unless they can to replace their current ageing fleet. Same for Crystal.

 

@Mr Luxury: Silversea is behind the RCI's umbrella right now. If they can make things going, managing fleet accordingly, yes, they can lead, but don't think EJ's positives will pass apart from them. If succeeded EJ will to become "normative" of the segment for very long years. Fixed that will be the software part, EJ will be as disruptive, if not even more for the luxe market segment, than what Virgin has been to the Premium one.

[Whipsnade]

We will not see you tomorrow Carolldoll as we must depart. Will be interested to see your reactions to EJ. You can expect  a half full ship. Less than 500 pax. 
Once again Nunagoras hit the nail on the head. EJ is the luxury line leader of the next decade as they roll out. The others (with the possible exception of Silversea) do not and cannot command the resources. Carnival is bust right now so they will not  be getting $$ anytime soon to join the new breed. The smaller lines like Regent will get sold/bought and they are mostly now owned by hedge funds that  are only interested in a fast buck and have no real commitment to the industry. 

[Mr Luxury]

1 minute ago, Nunagoras said:

Absolutely! And this is, among many other things, why all cruise lines must to follow the generation change. The 🧡 or te ship for me might not be the same 🧡 of the ship for you, but one can capture what the average 🧡 of the ship maybe for a whole generation.

 

I seriously doubt Azamara as being relevant for next gen unless they can to replace their current ageing fleet. Same for Crystal.

 

@Mr Luxury: Silversea is behind the RCI's umbrella right now. If they can make things going, managing fleet accordingly, yes, they can lead, but don't think EJ's positives will pass apart from them. If succeeded EJ will to become "normative" of the segment for very long years. Fixed that will be the software part, EJ will be as disruptive, if not even more for the luxe market segment, than what Virgin has been to the Premium one.

It's all good for us.

Choice is the thing.

[Nunagoras]

15 minutes ago, Caroldoll said:

I like your post.  My husband and I are 83 and 87.  We are VERY ACTIVE and nothing is too much or too little for us to do.  We like to think we are the new generation as we like the relaxed standards and some of what EJ is trying to do.  Before Covid we cruised three or four times a year.  We got plenty tired of dragging a tuxedo.  However, we are aware that some people take advantage like one of our Senators and do degrade the "feeling".  The less on the ship, the better for us and frankly we are hoping that our cruise which starts tomorrow is not full!  Hope to meet a lot of you!

 

Sadly I won't be aboard, surely I would like to meet you just to congrats you and your husband for your lovely age, and still cruising!...

 

Despite the naysayers, times are changing. And they won't return home to the last century's 80's. Wonderful to know you're here to stay as things are. Enjoy a wonderful cruise on this new ship. Surely there will still be "first user bugs", but that is also the salt of life!... I'll be more than happy to listen from you live from the ship. Have a wonderful day!...

[Whipsnade]

Our next cruise will be on Symphony in Jan Sydney to Mumbai. 66 days. 
We are booked here next Sept for three back to back seven day cruises in east Med almost all to islands and places we have never visited. Waiting for EJ to release 25 beyond April so we can book another. 
Bon voyage!!!

[Dr. Cocktail]

44 minutes ago, Nunagoras said:

Absolutely! And this is, among many other things, why all cruise lines must to follow the generation change. The 🧡 or te ship for me might not be the same 🧡 of the ship for you, but one can capture what the average 🧡 of the ship maybe for a whole generation.

 

I seriously doubt Azamara as being relevant for next gen unless they can to replace their current ageing fleet. Same for Crystal.

 

@Mr Luxury: Silversea is behind the RCI's umbrella right now. If they can make things going, managing fleet accordingly, yes, they can lead, but don't think EJ's positives will pass apart from them. If succeeded EJ will to become "normative" of the segment for very long years. Fixed that will be the software part, EJ will be as disruptive, if not even more for the luxe market segment, than what Virgin has been to the Premium one.

 

42 minutes ago, Whipsnade said:

We will not see you tomorrow Carolldoll as we must depart. Will be interested to see your reactions to EJ. You can expect  a half full ship. Less than 500 pax. 
Once again Nunagoras hit the nail on the head. EJ is the luxury line leader of the next decade as they roll out. The others (with the possible exception of Silversea) do not and cannot command the resources. Carnival is bust right now so they will not  be getting $$ anytime soon to join the new breed. The smaller lines like Regent will get sold/bought and they are mostly now owned by hedge funds that  are only interested in a fast buck and have no real commitment to the industry. 

 

42 minutes ago, Mr Luxury said:

It's all good for us.

Choice is the thing.

 

57 minutes ago, Caroldoll said:

I like your post.  My husband and I are 83 and 87.  We are VERY ACTIVE and nothing is too much or too little for us to do.  We like to think we are the new generation as we like the relaxed standards and some of what EJ is trying to do.  Before Covid we cruised three or four times a year.  We got plenty tired of dragging a tuxedo.  However, we are aware that some people take advantage like one of our Senators and do degrade the "feeling".  The less on the ship, the better for us and frankly we are hoping that our cruise which starts tomorrow is not full!  Hope to meet a lot of you!

 

I said this before (and I was trashed by a thankfully disappeared poster who basically insinuated that I was making it up) that in my conversations with some senior staff on Seven Seas Splendor that they were VERY aware of Explora and .... concerned.  I won't name names but many felt that Regent was, metaphorically speaking, going in the wrong direction of what passengers wanted.

[Nunagoras]

11 minutes ago, Whipsnade said:

We will not see you tomorrow Carolldoll as we must depart. Will be interested to see your reactions to EJ. You can expect  a half full ship. Less than 500 pax. 
Once again Nunagoras hit the nail on the head. EJ is the luxury line leader of the next decade as they roll out. The others (with the possible exception of Silversea) do not and cannot command the resources. Carnival is bust right now so they will not  be getting $$ anytime soon to join the new breed. The smaller lines like Regent will get sold/bought and they are mostly now owned by hedge funds that  are only interested in a fast buck and have no real commitment to the industry. 

💯!... It seems we speak the same Market Analyst language, dear @Whipsnade!... This is sadly the current state of the art on the whole Industry that so many here in CC still don't see, or don't want to admit they've already seen. In summary:

 

Carnival - Bust. Ready to be "quartered" in smaller parts to be sold segment by segment.

Norwegian - Bust. Owned by "hedge funds" that, most of them will be more than happy to be out of that disgrace before a new big economical crisis arises. Ready to be "quartered" in smaller parts to be sold segment by segment.

Royal Caribbean - At the bare minimum of survival, but things are not great there. They have a huge debt scheme to be redeemed mostly out of their X Edge class. If their current booking system is set to be as full as they claim for the next year and a half, maybe they'll survive like we know them right now. But, if the war in Ukraine persists past 2024 and inflation doesn't go down, they'll likely to have difficulties in filling those ships from mid 2025 onward on their current rates and they may not survive well a discount season. Their prospects are better than Carnival or Norwegian, but that is it for now. If market conditions don't change for the better they'll be as bust as the others in a not so distant time than some may to think about.

MSC - Great! Back before the pandemic their cruise division only valued for some 3% of their entire group business volume. In no way, will that segment represent more than 1% of it by 2025 given the ongoing cargo fares over the exceptional increase that no one would eve to dream about some 4 years ago. The cruise segment seems like such an adult toy for some Aponte family relatives members to play during their free time!... They'll entirely to command the whole market for the next 2 decades as they please with minimal competition, at least in the west!... There is simply nobody with their budget or expertise to make whatever else in the market. It's up to them to decide how they will "kill" the competition. Apparently they'll just let them to die by natural death. Excuse me the harsh words, but those are the ones we used to analyse businesses on the market analysis department!...

 

Possible entrants of meaningful notice? China and Saudi Arabia. China may very well to purchase Carnival or part of it, at least, like it has already been the case over the Adora cruises partnership. China would to become a huge global competitor if fruity, but far form being minimally harmful at any meaning for now by and large. Either way something on where I'll be very attentive over its developments on the next years to come. Saudi Arabia purchased one of the defunct Genting Capital ~150k GT ships still in shipyard. It seems a toy for their royal family to play with, but who knows if they'll to come in with the biggies?...

 

I don't know how Viking is doing these days. If they wish for it, they can very well to launch an upgraded Viking product for the modern luxe segment, but they may be quite limited financially.

 

Disney doesn't really count. Yeah; they have the mega ship from Genting Capital, but I'd to call it a night on them being the next big thing. Disney's main businesses aren't going that great from what I can observe. Time will tell.

 

Virgin was hit wherever else during the Covid time. I've no doubts on whether they would have been the next big thing in the industry was no Covid on the mix!... But that is life. Mr. Branson was not lucky here. As simple as that. His cruise venture started up at the ugliest time one would imagine it to have been. Nobody can to remedy that. Perhaps MSC will end up purchasing the ships and transforming them on whatever else they please.

[Nunagoras]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Cocktail said:

I said this before (and I was trashed by a thankfully disappeared poster who basically insinuated that I was making it up) that in my conversations with some senior staff on Seven Seas Splendor that they were VERY aware of Explora and .... concerned.  I won't name names but many felt that Regent was, metaphorically speaking, going in the wrong direction of what passengers wanted.

Regent problem right now is not the lack of a solid product... It's either the lack of a solid owner, ready to invest on them for the next gen transition. How many ships are they adding to the cart for the next 4 years? 2, if my memory sticks, isn't it?... And both before the pandemic contracted with before the pandemic way of doing things in mind. And now Norwegian has the corresponding debt to redeem and no easy way to add more debt to make the transition...

[saminina]

China and CCL without mentioning the current Saudi stake in CCL?

[Whipsnade]

Nun hits it out of the park! Again!! Great thumbnail analysis of the luxury future. I see it the same way. MSC/EJ is now the Big Gorilla. And unless the container shipping bus goes bust (which it has and could again) they will have access to unlimited cash for baby Apontes to play with. Let’s not forget this extended family has been in the ocean shipping business for some three hundred years. Guess they have learned a thing or two. 
Saudis could get in. Just learned today they are subsidizing the new cruise ship push into east coast of the Red Sea which for 99% of us is someplace we have never seen. And Jeddah and the coast are developing mega rapidly. So don’t count the Saudis out yet. Could call in their loans to Israeli owned Carnival or bail hedge fund bozos out of Regent or both. Boom. Overnight they are monster players with even more money than Apontes. 
All great speculation, eh??

 

[Nunagoras]

27 minutes ago, saminina said:

China and CCL without mentioning the current Saudi stake in CCL?

Both now part of the BRICS consortium countries, just to begin with... They can even to partner on this segment like on many others...

[Nunagoras]

8 minutes ago, Whipsnade said:

Nun hits it out of the park! Again!! Great thumbnail analysis of the luxury future. I see it the same way. MSC/EJ is now the Big Gorilla. And unless the container shipping bus goes bust (which it has and could again) they will have access to unlimited cash for baby Apontes to play with. Let’s not forget this extended family has been in the ocean shipping business for some three hundred years. Guess they have learned a thing or two. 
Saudis could get in. Just learned today they are subsidizing the new cruise ship push into east coast of the Red Sea which for 99% of us is someplace we have never seen. And Jeddah and the coast are developing mega rapidly. So don’t count the Saudis out yet. Could call in their loans to Israeli owned Carnival or bail hedge fund bozos out of Regent or both. Boom. Overnight they are monster players with even more money than Apontes. 
All great speculation, eh??

 

Surely. But they'll be quite secretive and slow motion on said moves... And don't forget: On the next 2 decades oil exploration will likely to become less relevant by the day. They'll want to secure more important things in the mean time, than to invest openly on just everything else!...

[Caroldoll]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Hmmm.  While you are right that SB does not have butlers (nothing we ever missed) I do not understand why you have to "go down to the desk" for reservations.  On SB, the only reservations were in the TK Grll, and for the special TK dinners in the Colonnade.  Reservations for that stuff can be done anytime you walk in or past the hostess desk at the Colonnade (which you must do every time you enter or leave that venue).  

 

The entire butler issue is a topic unto itself.  Having cruised lots of cruise lines (EJ is our 17th line) and dozens of ships, we never understood the need for butlers.  DW does not want a stranger unpacking our clothes, and otherwise, the butlers really don't do anything that isn't normally done by simply calling room service or perhaps Guest Services.  In MSC's Yacht Club, the entire butler thing is a bit "over the top."  We sure do not need somebody to hold our hands while we go to the MDR or the main theater.  They do come in handy at embarkation and debarkation, but that is not much.   We had friends who cruised for about a month, in the largest suite on the Queen Mary2.  They had a butler at their beck and call, 24/7.  Towards the end of their cruise, they invited us for a small cocktail party in their suite  Their butler was all over the place making sure the party was properly stocked and served.  We were impressed (as our cabin was in steerage).  Our friends later told us that during their entire month, that one little party was the only time they found much use of their butler. 

 

I get it that for some folks it is an ego thing..."I have a butler."  But for most, they do not serve any purpose that cannot be easily handled by other simple means.

 

Hank 

Not ego at all Hank.  To each his own.  I have had a parcel of kids and handled everything including a huge business all my life working up to 18 hours a day sometimes--lots.  I like a Butler.  There are other times--my friend who came in another suite rented a tuxedo which was HUGE, BUTLER ran all over finding pins!  I do not let them unpack or pack, but one time my husband drank tainted milk on shore, Butler took care of him bringing all sorts of stuff.  By the way, we followed our Butler!  Weird, right!  I don't go on a cruise to continue my heavy lifting.  That being said, we only have a part time one on this ship.  We will see how that works!  Sorry if I seem uppity, but I am really quite a work horse!

[Caroldoll]

1 hour ago, Dr. Cocktail said:

 

 

 

I said this before (and I was trashed by a thankfully disappeared poster who basically insinuated that I was making it up) that in my conversations with some senior staff on Seven Seas Splendor that they were VERY aware of Explora and .... concerned.  I won't name names but many felt that Regent was, metaphorically speaking, going in the wrong direction of what passengers wanted.

Oh dear, there are those on the board who are really trying to whip up dissension and misery.  Makes me sad.  We should all have our own opinions!  Nice to hear things about the ship, but not constant misery.  There MUST be something good!  LOL

 

[Whipsnade]

Nun

i figure greeter bet the Saudis get in than China. China has much bigger fish to fry than world luxury cruising about which they are clueless. Think belt and road. South China Sea. Formosa. 
The Saudis (and their pals in UAE) are banking big on tourism expansion and development. I think luxury cruises would fit well with them. 
End of 25 Symphony is doing a series of Red Sea and UAE cruises in and out of Dubai. We plan to be aboard. Betting there will be A&K overland a from Aqaba, Saffaga and Jeddah. Betting There is Saudi money backing this series. 

[Hlitner]

2 minutes ago, Whipsnade said:

Nun

i figure greeter bet the Saudis get in than China. China has much bigger fish to fry than world luxury cruising about which they are clueless. Think belt and road. South China Sea. Formosa. 
The Saudis (and their pals in UAE) are banking big on tourism expansion and development. I think luxury cruises would fit well with them. 
End of 25 Symphony is doing a series of Red Sea and UAE cruises in and out of Dubai. We plan to be aboard. Betting there will be A&K overland a from Aqaba, Saffaga and Jeddah. Betting There is Saudi money backing this series. 

It does appear that the Saudis want to have a bigger footprint in the cruise industry, and use their clout (as owners or big investors) to bring more cruise tourism to their country.  That being said, if Saudi Arabia ever wants to become a popular tourist destination, they will need to reconsider their policies on alcohol and birthing people (not allowed to say women).  Their "Public Investment Fund" always owns a sizable amount of cruise line stock, but they have stayed in the background as investors.

 

Hank

[Whipsnade]

Alcohol flows freely in Saudi and UAE. They have women fighter pilots. 
Their record on rights of dissenters another matter. Think bone saws!!

All means kitties to tourism. 

[Hlitner]

5 minutes ago, Whipsnade said:

Alcohol flows freely in Saudi and UAE. They have women fighter pilots. 
Their record on rights of dissenters another matter. Think bone saws!!

All means kitties to tourism. 

Yes and no.  It seems to be more of a "nod nod, wink wink" thing, but the kingdom officially does not allow any drinking, consumption, etc.  While they can look the other way for what happens in some Western hotels and other favored establishments, they would not condone consumption on any cruise ship in their waters.  If they owned the ship....they could not even look the other way as it is illegal.  And by the way, the punishment can be up to 500 lashes and/or prison.  Do you want to be the one who takes their chances?

 

Hank

[Critically Cruising]

Sure hope all those folks who are looking at MSC as a bottomless font of cash take a closer look at container shipping rates.  Which are dropping and dropping.

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/trouble-ahead-container-shipping-rates-sinking-further-red

 

 

[johng75370]

40 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

While they can look the other way for what happens in some Western hotels and other favored establishments, they would not condone consumption on any cruise ship in their waters.  If they owned the ship....they could not even look the other way as it is illegal.

Explora’s “Club Prism” would become “Club Prison”.  For many reasons a decent number of people will not choose to put their money into a product directly owned by the Saudis.  

[Nunagoras]

42 minutes ago, Critically Cruising said:

Sure hope all those folks who are looking at MSC as a bottomless font of cash take a closer look at container shipping rates.  Which are dropping and dropping.

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/trouble-ahead-container-shipping-rates-sinking-further-red

 

 

Thanks, but bear in mind MSC is not only container shipping. They're also top leaders on the oil and dangerous materials transportation, areas on where there is now capacity for more than what they already do, at the usual high rates. And, even at current rates, top leadership gives them basically infinite financial sourcing for the times being.

[Whipsnade]

Personally I don’t care if they don’t serve alcohol as I have been sober for 35 years. But I guarantee if they own a big piece of a cruise company, like hotels they will figure it out. 
I suppose there would be some Americans who would not sail on Saudi owned ship. Guess that would be the same ones who refuse to watch Saudi owned golf. (LOL)

[Caroldoll]

9 hours ago, Whipsnade said:

We will not see you tomorrow Carolldoll as we must depart. Will be interested to see your reactions to EJ. You can expect  a half full ship. Less than 500 pax. 
Once again Nunagoras hit the nail on the head. EJ is the luxury line leader of the next decade as they roll out. The others (with the possible exception of Silversea) do not and cannot command the resources. Carnival is bust right now so they will not  be getting $$ anytime soon to join the new breed. The smaller lines like Regent will get sold/bought and they are mostly now owned by hedge funds that  are only interested in a fast buck and have no real commitment to the industry. 

I agree with both of you.  My feeling on Silversea is that I just don't like one dining room and the formality.  It has been since before Covid that we cruised with them, but it felt it small and confining.  Both my DH and I also do not like the formality although we do feel that the people on the ship should present themselves with some amount of decorum.  No tuxedos for us.  That was an attraction of EJ.

[Waltershipman]

28 minutes ago, Caroldoll said:

I agree with both of you.  My feeling on Silversea is that I just don't like one dining room and the formality.  It has been since before Covid that we cruised with them, but it felt it small and confining.  Both my DH and I also do not like the formality although we do feel that the people on the ship should present themselves with some amount of decorum.  No tuxedos for us.  That was an attraction of EJ.

Nice!!,I had intended to bring a suit  but no tie however after reading  the cc posts i will ne leaving the suit  at home  however  dressing very nicely lol 

[Caroldoll]

5 hours ago, Waltershipman said:

Nice!!,I had intended to bring a suit  but no tie however after reading  the cc posts i will ne leaving the suit  at home  however  dressing very nicely lol 

That's it.  Looking forward to seeing you.  We are easy to find.   My husband is 6'5" and looks like Tom Selleck.  I, on the other hand am only 4'10".  Hard to miss us.  We are about to start our long journey.