When ‘Free at Sea’ is not Free at At Sea

[Asawi]

6 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Beg to differ on that one...

 

In the post where the OP shows the receipt for the drinks (which is the first indication they do not have FAS, given they were issued a receipt), it clearly shows they were changed for 2 drinks @ $11/ea.  They were also charged $4.40 and 44¢ respectively for taxes.  The total charge on the receipt was $31.24.

So you¨re saying the picture showing the onboard account in another post is false? No drinks charged there. Just the VAT. (And the DSC+VAT)

Edited September 28, 2023 by Asawi

[graphicguy]

11 minutes ago, Asawi said:

So you¨re saying the picture showing the onboard account in another post is false? No drinks charged there. Just the VAT. (And the DSC+VAT)

It's the VERY FIRST POST in this thread!

[Asawi]

Just now, graphicguy said:

It's the VERY FIRST POST in this thread!

Well, KEEP READING the WHOLE thread then! Or at least browse it!

[Girr]

46 minutes ago, Asawi said:

 

1.  With FAS you do not get receipt!  They swipe your card and off you go.  When card swiped VAT is added to your account.  Again, no receipt.

2.  Without FAS you get a receipt which must be signed as the entire bill is being charged to your account.

3.  No one is saying the picture is fake!  What we're saying is (a) the OP is confused about having FAS (see #1 & #2) or (b) FAS is not showing up on their account and they need to go IMMEDIATELY to customer services to get the account squared away.

4.  I'm confused as to why VAT at 20% and 10% is being charged.

5.  Please do not confuse DSC (daily fee charged for room attendants, laundry, dining, etc) with the 20% gratuity charged for the beverage package. 

 

The above is based on my experience not even two months ago on the Epic.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Girr
Adding info.

[Capitan Obvious]

8 minutes ago, Asawi said:

So you¨re saying the picture showing the onboard account in another post is false? No drinks charged there. Just the VAT. (And the DSC+VAT)

 

I think what graphicguy is saying is that a) the reports from the OP don't reflect the personal experiences of others, nor does the OP offer a reasonable explanation for the difference, and b) that you have to be skeptical when "facts" are carefully curated and only released to promote a particular viewpoint.

 

Yes, we all saw the receipt in post #1. But then we had to wait until post #44 for the onboard account photo. Did you look at the receipt pic that was posted with the onboard account pic? It is dated 27SEP, yet none of the charges shown in the onboard account pic share that date?

 

Seems that some people only see what they want to see while others would rather see everything before passing judgment.

[PollyMurg]

 

 

 

I will reiterate that I do in fact have Free At Sea. 

 

We have never had receipts before either. 

 

I suspect we are being issued with them to show the charges. Good job really as we were ‘charged’ for two beers when actually one wasn’t available so we were able to reclaim back the vat on that one. 

If you look back at the first receipt I posted you will see VAT 10% and VAT 20%. The total of those are the values that are showing on our onboard account. 

 

For your amusement, last night was our first meal in Manhattan. We were asked did we want wine with our meal. We did. The waiter poured mine and I thought that it was to taste to see if I liked it but it was my measure! I have never had such a small measure on board.

 

The purpose of me posting was to advise future travellers that it is not only cruises out of Spain that are being charged VAT.

 

Thank you @ Asawi for following closely btw 

 

That’s all from me ! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[graphicguy]

Yeah....there are details being fudged here.  Not sure why, but they are.

 

Bottom line, whether you're being charged the VAT as a separate line item, or it's included as a higher drink package price, VAT is a Europe "thing".  Governments are going to get their cut.  You can debate how the cruise lines should or shouldn't show it, but you're paying for it.

 

Just because your on line account shows you paying the DSC (which is the service charge for housekeeping, bus boys, etc) that has nothing to do with the VAT Europe charges for drinks. They are two different things.  

 

 

[Asawi]

2 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:

Yes, we all saw the receipt in post #1. But then we had to wait until post #44 for the onboard account photo. Did you look at the receipt pic that was posted with the onboard account pic? It is dated 27SEP, yet none of the charges shown in the onboard account pic share that date?

I hear you and see your point. But does it really matter? The topic is/should be the addition of VAT which clearly is happening. Whether those paper receipts match the onboard account or not. The sums in the onboard account match the VAT on the receipts. Isn't that what this should be about? VAT of 20% charged in France. (If the person hadn't had FAS there would also be the actual drinks charges.) 
And also the question of the DSC. Another person on the same cruise has the same thing, but they apperently got a credit or something matching the extra payment.

 

[Girr]

France, so far, isn't collecting VAT from cruise ships!

[graphicguy]

1 minute ago, PollyMurg said:

 

 

 

I will reiterate that I do in fact have Free At Sea. 

 

We have never had receipts before either. 

 

I suspect we are being issued with them to show the charges. Good job really as we were ‘charged’ for two beers when actually one wasn’t available so we were able to reclaim back the vat on that one. 

If you look back at the first receipt I posted you will see VAT 10% and VAT 20%. The total of those are the values that are showing on our onboard account. 

 

For your amusement, last night was our first meal in Manhattan. We were asked did we want wine with our meal. We did. The waiter poured mine and I thought that it was to taste to see if I liked it but it was my measure! I have never had such a small measure on board.

 

The purpose of me posting was to advise future travellers that it is not only cruises out of Spain that are being charged VAT.

 

Thank you @ Asawi for following closely btw 

 

That’s all from me ! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If that is indeed the case, you were charged for drinks when you shouldn't have been.  Further, you were charged the full amount for wine with your dinner, when they should have only charged the amount above $15, which is the individual drink price limit for FAS.

 

Get to Customer Service before disembarking the ship to have it rectified.

[Asawi]

1 minute ago, graphicguy said:

Just because your on line account shows you paying the DSC (which is the service charge for housekeeping, bus boys, etc) that has nothing to do with the VAT Europe charges for drinks. They are two different things.  

And noone has suggested otherwise! (Unless you count the pointing out that VAT is also charged on DSC as such. But hey...)

[Asawi]

1 minute ago, Girr said:

France, so far, isn't collecting VAT from cruise ships!

Well, seems like they might be now! OP points out that this is the first cruise it's happening on.

[graphicguy]

Just now, Asawi said:

Well, seems like they might be now! OP points out that this is the first cruise it's happening on.

Help me understand.  Where are seeing VAT charged on DSC.  I see the DSC charged and I see what appears to be VAT charged on drinks at the "pool bar"?  Just because they are near each other on the account isn't an indication that VAT is charged on DSC.

 

I'm not combative, just trying to walk you through what you're seeing.  Believe me, I've had more than a few rounds with billing issues on all my cruises.  I'm keenly aware of what is and what is not an error.

[Capitan Obvious]

3 minutes ago, PollyMurg said:

The purpose of me posting was to advise future travellers that it is not only cruises out of Spain that are being charged VAT.

 

JMHO, but then you should have just posted that educational warning instead of framing it like NCL wasn't giving you your free @ sea amenities. You know, a friendly "A bit of a heads up for my fellow cruisers...While it is known that Spain has a VAT on certain purchases, you should be aware that other countries also have their own VAT and you may find yourself having to follow the law and pay appropriate taxes while you travel".

 

And that warning should have gone on a general cruising board, not just the NCL specific cruising board.

 

3 minutes ago, Asawi said:

I hear you and see your point. But does it really matter?

 

Honestly, I didn't think it did, but when you hit us with the "did you see the picture" back in Post #76, I assumed that you thought it mattered.

[insidecabin]

On the UK drinkgate cruises earlier this year recommendation by the ship  was reduce/remove DSC.

 

It's the way to protest on the ship at the time as anything else will fall on talk to the hand.

 

Ships are tied and can do nothing if the drinkgate is anything to go by dictate from above.

 

[Capitan Obvious]

8 minutes ago, Asawi said:

And noone has suggested otherwise! (Unless you count the pointing out that VAT is also charged on DSC as such. But hey...)

 

3 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Help me understand.  Where are seeing VAT charged on DSC.  I see the DSC charged and I see what appears to be VAT charged on drinks at the "pool bar"?  Just because they are near each other on the account isn't an indication that VAT is charged on DSC.

 

I'm not combative, just trying to walk you through what you're seeing.  Believe me, I've had more than a few rounds with billing issues on all my cruises.  I'm keenly aware of what is and what is not an error.

 

 

I think he is confused by my post (#12) where I pointed out that the VAT was charged on the drinks and then again on the 20% gratuity on the drinks. Obviously, the 20% drink gratuity is NOT the DSC, but that is the only post in the thread that even mentions the additional VAT charges.

[Asawi]

6 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Help me understand.  Where are seeing VAT charged on DSC.  I see the DSC charged and I see what appears to be VAT charged on drinks at the "pool bar"?  Just because they are near each other on the account isn't an indication that VAT is charged on DSC.

Isn't DSC $20/day? 20+10% makes 22. And 22 is what's being charged. Hence I draw the conclusion VAT of 10% has been added. Why else the extra 2?

[Asawi]

2 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:

Honestly, I didn't think it did, but when you hit us with the "did you see the picture" back in Post #76, I assumed that you thought it mattered.

While I agree that the wording of the headline and the picture of the receipt may have been misleading, I just got a bit fed up with all the talk of OP not having FAS. I would have thought it obvious that it wasn't about being charged for the drinks but for the VAT. Apparently I was wrong. Again... 

[macattack1111]

I think a lot of people are missing the point about about this VAT malarky.

1.When booking and paying their cruise..no one was aware that they  would be charged an extra 10%..20% what ever it is on drinks when they purchased the packages...THIS IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE FROM NCL...They seem to be blaming the countries involved but deserve the negative press they are receiving from Social Media and the News papers.

2.They need to charge the VAT at source..ie you buy the package in the uk say for £150 ..then you should pay the VAT then.

FREE AT SEA....it certainly isnt.

 

 

 

 

[schmoopie17]

10 minutes ago, macattack1111 said:

 

2.They need to charge the VAT at source..ie you buy the package in the uk say for £150 ..then you should pay the VAT then.

 

 

 

 

 

How would they calculate it at time of purchase, since there is no way of knowing how many (or what cost) drinks you will be having?

[SoloAlaska]

14 minutes ago, macattack1111 said:

I think a lot of people are missing the point about about this VAT malarky.

1.When booking and paying their cruise..no one was aware that they  would be charged an extra 10%..20% what ever it is on drinks when they purchased the packages...THIS IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE FROM NCL...They seem to be blaming the countries involved but deserve the negative press they are receiving from Social Media and the News papers.

2.They need to charge the VAT at source..ie you buy the package in the uk say for £150 ..then you should pay the VAT then.

FREE AT SEA....it certainly isnt.

 

 

 

 

I much rather pay on my drinks than on the original value of the package. Also how would you calculate based on when at sea vs in port, what if a port is missed then would you receive a refund on the vat?

 

paying vat sucks especially when it’s new and a rule change but the contracts do include provisions that make it ok to happen.

[macattack1111]

if you pay £150 for a drinks package and are charged 20% VAT  for this package...then the VAT Is £30...its not rocket science...I purchased the package in the UK...not on the ship and not in Spain.

[graphicguy]

Or…..you can do like Costa does.  Costa is a mainly European Cruise line….no drink package and every drink is charged a VAT.

 

https://www.oggiabordo.com/post/costa-drinks

 

This is just one example.  Generally speaking, NCL’s FAS is the least expensive drink package of any of the major cruise lines.  Some don’t want to see the extra charges for VAT (as just one example) whereas NCL uses it as a line item charged just on the drinks you order, vs the entire cost of the drink package, regardless if you have one drink or 20 drinks.

 

Some people prefer not to see the VAT charges.  They’re there, whether you see them or not.

 

I have a hard time believing that any resident of any of the European country is NOT AWARE of the VAT.

 

Personally, I want to see the line item for ANY tax on my cruise.  There are days I’ll drink maybe 2 drinks, others I drink 10.  Those days I drink 2 drinks will have less tax levied than those with 10.

[graphicguy]

2 minutes ago, macattack1111 said:

if you pay £150 for a drinks package and are charged 20% VAT  for this package...then the VAT Is £30...its not rocket science...I purchased the package in the UK...not on the ship and not in Spain.

But, you should only pay the VAT on what drinks you order, not what you might or might not order as paying the VAT on the entire package would make you do.

[HowardK]

This whole thread is driving me to drink. On a more serious note and perhaps somewhat off topic, I got the drink package in 2018 and don't drink that often, so I would have a drink every few hours to try and get my vaule out of the pacakage. - I was never drunk - However due to the alcohol and lack of sleep I became ill at the end of the cruise and had to go to urgent care at home .

 

So it could be free at sea but they should add with consequences. 

And yes, you are charged taxes in port. When I looked at my bill I had NYC tax charges - about 8 or 9 of them.