Loyalty Changes Speculation Video

[kywildcatfanone]

I don't have any status with Celebrity, about to go on pur second cruise.  I am Elite with Princess and while they haven't gone the route of the airlines, they have slowly removed or watered down loyalty benefits to the point they aren't worth much at all.

 

[Mark_K]

2 hours ago, the penguins said:

Regretably X's system is not based on an accumulation of cruises it's a mashup between nights and cabin class. 

What’s regrettable about it?  
 

Giving as much credit for a three day weekender as for an eleven day cruise, like Royal used to do never made much sense.

 

And while Celebrity is more granular than most, pretty much every cruise line gives different points based on cabin level.

[Jeremiah1212]

Changes will eventually have to take place to accommodate the growing number of members for either program. It’s not sustainable. However, the video he mentions definitely does not insinuate the programs would be outright merged. 

[the penguins]

25 minutes ago, Mark_K said:

What’s regrettable about it?  
 

Giving as much credit for a three day weekender as for an eleven day cruise, like Royal used to do never made much sense.

 

And while Celebrity is more granular than most, pretty much every cruise line gives different points based on cabin level.

Regrettable in the sense that it’s promoted as a Loyalty Scheme. Royals old scheme was flawed in that taking 3 short cruises often got you more than 1 long one. X’s scheme if based on nights would more accurately reflect loyalty. The huge points differential for different cabin grades has nothing whatever to do with loyalty. Power up Points don’t even have anything to do with cruising let alone Loyalty.

Nothing is perfect but my choice would be 1 point per night.

[tfred]

There has to be a revenue component as well. Higher revenue pax who buy specialty, excursions and airfare are more profitable than inside cabin who bring their own wine. 
 

airline and hotel programs are low on actual loyalty benefits these days (upgrades are very tough) but are good for guest recovery. 
 

there also has to be a time cutoff for inactivity   Maybe 3 years like MSC. 

[NutsAboutGolf]

4 hours ago, tfred said:

There has to be a revenue component as well. Higher revenue pax who buy specialty, excursions and airfare are more profitable than inside cabin who bring their own wine. 
 

airline and hotel programs are low on actual loyalty benefits these days (upgrades are very tough) but are good for guest recovery. 
 

there also has to be a time cutoff for inactivity   Maybe 3 years like MSC. 

 

As I've said in another thread, upgrades are alive and well even if peasants like me who are #30 on the upgrade list don't get them, the airlines are still GIVING out upgrades to those with the top status.  Airline upgrades often take their cheapest option like a coach and upgrade them to the most expensive option like business class often costing the airline at least 5x.  Since X and other cruise lines do not have an inside room to sky suite free upgrade list, it's pointless to make it complicated to add status requirements like "spend" or an expiration.  Additionally, folks knock inside rooms a bit but you only earn 2 CC per night meaning to make Zenith, you'd need to have sailed 1,500 nights which is under 5 years at sea.  X has made enough profit off them to throw them a benefits package that costs them very little.  However, I wouldn't be surprised if X changes their loyalty program to better benefit themselves 

[tfred]

44 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

As I've said in another thread, upgrades are alive and well even if peasants like me who are #30 on the upgrade list don't get them, the airlines are still GIVING out upgrades to those with the top status.  Airline upgrades often take their cheapest option like a coach and upgrade them to the most expensive option like business class often costing the airline at least 5x.  Since X and other cruise lines do not have an inside room to sky suite free upgrade list, it's pointless to make it complicated to add status requirements like "spend" or an expiration.  Additionally, folks knock inside rooms a bit but you only earn 2 CC per night meaning to make Zenith, you'd need to have sailed 1,500 nights which is under 5 years at sea.  X has made enough profit off them to throw them a benefits package that costs them very little.  However, I wouldn't be surprised if X changes their loyalty program to better benefit themselves 

I saw recently that Delta Airlines has gone from 30% pax load paying for First Class (the rest were upgraded at NC) to 80% paying for first, the remaining 20% were upgraded. If first had 16 seats, only 3 people would get upgraded off that list. 

 

airline loyalty now is guest recovery - plane was cancelled - how do I get home, priority stand by .  Obviouslynsome high mileage folks get more but many in the middle get very little. 

 

My Marriott status (lifetime) gets me access to the lounge and some occasional better rooms - not suites.  

 

any loyalty program costs some money .  X is looking at the returns from that money and time spent to see if it actually adds to profits   "Being nice" is not in the lexicon of most corporations especially if they cab see that the program doesnt get them more profitable business. 

 

I think the free drinks program has run its course. What would make sense ?  priority something - seats, reservations at specialty, tender.  Knock off the bottom levels of CC (where's my free water?)and add points for total revenue maybe with a suite or AQ bonus 

[NutsAboutGolf]

2 minutes ago, tfred said:

I saw recently that Delta Airlines has gone from 30% pax load paying for First Class (the rest were upgraded at NC) to 80% paying for first, the remaining 20% were upgraded. If first had 16 seats, only 3 people would get upgraded off that list. 

 

airline loyalty now is guest recovery - plane was cancelled - how do I get home, priority stand by .  Obviouslynsome high mileage folks get more but many in the middle get very little. 

 

My Marriott status (lifetime) gets me access to the lounge and some occasional better rooms - not suites.  

 

any loyalty program costs some money .  X is looking at the returns from that money and time spent to see if it actually adds to profits   "Being nice" is not in the lexicon of most corporations especially if they cab see that the program doesnt get them more profitable business. 

 

I think the free drinks program has run its course. What would make sense ?  priority something - seats, reservations at specialty, tender.  Knock off the bottom levels of CC (where's my free water?)and add points for total revenue maybe with a suite or AQ bonus 

 

Of course, loyalty programs cost money the question is always how much should they spend (rhetorical)?  It's clear Zeniths earned those benefits even if they booked insides exclusively which would mean they spent 4.1 years sailing on X (1,500/365).  With Elites and above on X during happy hour, you could do damage but even if you manage to order a dozen well drinks per night, how much is that really costing X?  12 vodka-based drinks is like half a bottle of vodka that most likely costs X less than $10.  Based on conversations with X cruisers, every elite I've talked to would never pay out of pocket for laundry service or pressing but utilize it if it's free.  You would have to imagine the same for pax with elite plus free coffees and the 5-7 happy hour.  So a person willing to slam down 12 drinks during elite happy hour most likely wouldn't have paid on a per-drink basis

 

Delta is just one airline yet in your example with only 3 of 16 upgrades, the numbers are a moot point because even if a plane had 48 biz class seats and the airline had 10% pax load, if they're all purchased outright, then there's no seats left to upgrade.  Part of the points/miles "game" is finding flights with availability whether that's booking at a different time/day or booking a flight with a layover.  For example, LAX is my closest airport and I'm buried on the upgrade list for long hauls.  I have far better luck booking a flight with a SFO connection as for whatever reason their business class always seems to be half-full

[the penguins]

7 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

Of course, loyalty programs cost money the question is always how much should they spend (rhetorical)?  It's clear Zeniths earned those benefits even if they booked insides exclusively which would mean they spent 4.1 years sailing on X (1,500/365).  With Elites and above on X during happy hour, you could do damage but even if you manage to order a dozen well drinks per night, how much is that really costing X?  12 vodka-based drinks is like half a bottle of vodka that most likely costs X less than $10.  Based on conversations with X cruisers, every elite I've talked to would never pay out of pocket for laundry service or pressing but utilize it if it's free.  You would have to imagine the same for pax with elite plus free coffees and the 5-7 happy hour.  So a person willing to slam down 12 drinks during elite happy hour most likely wouldn't have paid on a per-drink basis

 

Delta is just one airline yet in your example with only 3 of 16 upgrades, the numbers are a moot point because even if a plane had 48 biz class seats and the airline had 10% pax load, if they're all purchased outright, then there's no seats left to upgrade.  Part of the points/miles "game" is finding flights with availability whether that's booking at a different time/day or booking a flight with a layover.  For example, LAX is my closest airport and I'm buried on the upgrade list for long hauls.  I have far better luck booking a flight with a SFO connection as for whatever reason their business class always seems to be half-full

Yes Loyalty schemes cost but it is generally accepted that retaining clients is cheaper than finding new ones.

We are Elite+, don't need unlimited WiFi and don't drink any alcohol. The Elite+ benefits of Speciality Coffees/teas/chocolate, free water,  240 minutes each wifi and the laundry are a great deal for us and represent real value when we compare prices for comparable cruises.

 

[NutsAboutGolf]

46 minutes ago, the penguins said:

Yes Loyalty schemes cost but it is generally accepted that retaining clients is cheaper than finding new ones.

We are Elite+, don't need unlimited WiFi and don't drink any alcohol. The Elite+ benefits of Speciality Coffees/teas/chocolate, free water,  240 minutes each wifi and the laundry are a great deal for us and represent real value when we compare prices for comparable cruises.

 

 

Completely understood.  If X removed the coffee, laundry, and wifi benefits a week before your sailing, would you pay for them?  That's one of my points that people weren't paying for these benefits before they got them for free.  The other point is how little it really costs X to provide these benefits.  I hear at the martini bar time and time again from a bartender/server "We lose money on every drink package we sell".  From an X revenue perspective, that's simply not true since X doesn't pay alcohol suppliers retail prices; what they really mean is compared to a pay-per-drink basis which very few heavy drinkers would be willing to pay for

[the penguins]

1 hour ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

Completely understood.  If X removed the coffee, laundry, and wifi benefits a week before your sailing, would you pay for them?  That's one of my points that people weren't paying for these benefits before they got them for free.  The other point is how little it really costs X to provide these benefits.  I hear at the martini bar time and time again from a bartender/server "We lose money on every drink package we sell".  From an X revenue perspective, that's simply not true since X doesn't pay alcohol suppliers retail prices; what they really mean is compared to a pay-per-drink basis which very few heavy drinkers would be willing to pay for

To the best of my knowledge X has never removed any benefits from the Captains Club offer. When it changed the offer eg going from cruises to nights everyone kept their current status.

Before we reached Elite+ we paid for our Lattes and survived on 90 minutes Internet.

We have reached Elite+ by remaining loyal to X - only done one cruise in Concierge all the rest insides and balconies. We cruise mainly by itinerary and when comparing other lines (we switched to Princess and cancelled another cruise when X introduced compulsory AI) the CC benefits do make a difference.