Long time NCL cruiser. AWEFUL EXPERIENCE!

[PATRLR]

11 minutes ago, IAcruising said:

 

You seem to be missing something somewhere. NCL hasn't made any decision regarding the OP. They just sent him an email.

 

It's when he gets to the ship that NCL will make a decision. They are simply pointing out what that decision may be.

 

OK, so they will make the decision at some point in the near future.  How does that change my rebuttal to Bird's contention that NCL couldn't possibly know what all their passengers' travel documentation requirements are?

[PATRLR]

12 minutes ago, desibee said:

But NCL wasn't "unfaithful" to you.  You're the one who failed to appropriately plan for your cruise (or rather your college aged gf was the one who failed to appropriately plan by getting a passport or choosing a closed-loop cruise type).  Yes, it would be nice if NCL caught your whoopsie-doodle and fixed it for you but the fact that they didn't isn't a failure of corporate.  This is still, unfortunately, all on you guys.  Do better research next time.

You are correct of course, ultimately it's OP's problem. 

But NCL could have done better here.  Airlines do it all the time.  So it's absolutely OK for OP to feel NCL has let him down.  When NCL decides they aren't going to do anything to help their clients avoid these situations, they risk alienating those clients, I am sure they understand that and I am sure they are OK with it.

 

[IAcruising]

4 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

OK, so they will make the decision at some point in the near future.  How does that change my rebuttal to Bird's contention that NCL couldn't possibly know what all their passengers' travel documentation requirements are?

 

Your "rebuttal" was so filled with errors that I just chose the first one. How could NCL possibly know all the potential passenger scenarios? Are you serious?

 

[msbrookelyn]

5 hours ago, compfixer said:

 

I'm not jumping through hoops like a circus animal for something I should have been notified of Immediately.

 

I do appreciate your effort tho. Thank you!

It definitely isn't going to work for you. I took a repo cruise from Puerto Rico to NY and understood from the numerous guides on ncl website that a passport would be needed for a open cruise. I had 3 of us go to the ny office for our passports and paid extra for rush processing but they take hours and call you when it is complete to come pick it up. 

 

This situation sucks but it is something that is on you as the passenger to be aware of your contract. Your best bet is to be extremely nice and hope that they let you reschedule or choose a different sailing. Best of luck!

[PATRLR]

13 minutes ago, IAcruising said:

 

Your "rebuttal" was so filled with errors that I just chose the first one. How could NCL possibly know all the potential passenger scenarios? Are you serious?

 

Airlines do it all the time.  It's not an infinite list of possibilities.  NCL knows exactly what ports they are going to, each port's entry requirements are well known, why would it be difficult to know?

But why are we debating NCL's ability to "know all the potential passenger scenarios".  It's already an established fact that they DO know.  When OP arrives they will be denied boarding.  What do you think NCL is basing that decision on?  They are basing their decision on their knowledge of the requirements.

You might want to take your NCL colored glasses off for just a moment and you might realize that NCL can most definitely have done better here. 

  

[msbrookelyn]

5 hours ago, SomewhereGirl said:

If NCL can send out a "reminder" a couple days before sailing, they could've sent one out when online check-in opened at 21 days.  I don't know how much this is "common knowledge".  Other than Panama Canal cruises, I doubt there are that many other NCL cruises that start in one US port and end in another.  A small %.

Tough one.

Strongly disagree here.

 

If he is such a seasoned cruiser, it would have not been a big deal to pick up the phone or do a simple web search to have a confirmed answer weeks ago. This is something I figured out my second sailing at 22 years old. And then I did what needed to be done and spent what needed to be spent to make sure I could get me and 2 others on my sailing. 

[minabruuke]

24 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

Airlines do it all the time.  

 

Thinking back on every international flight that I have taken that required a passport, I cannot recall a single occasion where any airline verified that I had all of the documents that I required to board an international flight prior to my arrival to the airport. I am not saying that there isn't some airline somewhere that does this for certain flights but I have traveled to around 50 countries at this point and have always had to have my documents checked in person to be officially checked in and able to board an international flight that required a passport (Schengen to Schengen flights being the only international flights that I have ever taken that didn't require a passport or passport checks). I have regularly been asked to enter my passport details online ahead of time during an online "check-in" but I still have needed to show my passport and any required visas at the airport for them to be checked to assure that they meet the requirements that I was personally responsible for determining and verifying ahead of time. Just like NCL, the airlines provide links that help me determine what I need but my specific reservations have not included an all inclusive list of what documents I require to travel.

 

I am really having a hard time seeing how NCL has handled this differently than what is the norm for airlines.

[desibee]

1 hour ago, compfixer said:

 

I book directly through NCL casino at seas, have since 2011, they SHOULD know their own product and mention if something deviates from the norm. 

 

If I ran my business like that or my life for that matter, I'd be broke because I can't hide behind a website or scripted "it's our policy". 

 

Yes, it is what it is, I have this stupid thing called morals and pride, yeah, it was just port fees and taxes for.my free cruise, but it's the principle!

 

Main reason for this post is, hopefully someone else will learn from it! 

 

If they treat a loyal patron who literally spends more than he cares to mention in the casino, they'll do it ro Joe schmuck as well!

 

No honor or loyalty anymore, period, end of story. 

The norm is to have a passport.  Only Americans seem to think this isn't the norm for any kind of international travel.

 

Just because you drop dollars in the slot machines doesn't mean you're owed something.  Research better next time.

[desibee]

1 hour ago, PATRLR said:

You are correct of course, ultimately it's OP's problem. 

But NCL could have done better here.  Airlines do it all the time.  So it's absolutely OK for OP to feel NCL has let him down.  When NCL decides they aren't going to do anything to help their clients avoid these situations, they risk alienating those clients, I am sure they understand that and I am sure they are OK with it.

 

NCL can wait for pier runners as well but that doesn't meant they're going to do so, and that it isn't the responsibility of passengers to be back to the ship on time.  This is like deciding to be mad at a cruise line for ditching you at a port because you were too lazy to check the time and expected them to text you a reminder of when the ship leaves.

[Capitan Obvious]

1 hour ago, compfixer said:

If I ran my business like that or my life for that matter, I'd be broke because I can't hide behind a website or scripted "it's our policy". 

 

But you are running your life that way. Despite the passport requirements on the website AND despite the passport requirement in the contract that you agreed to during check in when you clicked the box that said you read, understood, and agreed to the contract terms, you now want to hide behind a "golly gee, they should have told me". They DID tell you, you just choose to not read it.

 

It sucks, but you don't seem to take any responsibility for your own actions. 

[omahabob]

2 hours ago, dbrown84 said:

very simple if then else programming.  Nowhere near as complicated as folks think.  

 

Apparently you've never done it. In this instance, it isn't a simple A=1, B=2 and C=3 proposition, like a single IF-THEN statement. A THEN on one calculation could change the IF on one or more other calculations. The answers to those might then change the IF on other calculations, or even on the original calculation itself, creating a loop. It's far more complicated than you think it is. I've experienced it firsthand, and it can be a nightmare. You also have to remember that customs and immigration couldn't care less what NCL checks. No matter how complicated or accurate the algorithms might be, ICE could decide they're wrong, and you're up the creek. NCL does not control immigration, nor should they be responsible for insuring compliance. That is, always has been, and always will be, the responsibility of the individual traveler.

[omahabob]

1 hour ago, PATRLR said:

You are correct of course, ultimately it's OP's problem. 

But NCL could have done better here.  Airlines do it all the time.  So it's absolutely OK for OP to feel NCL has let him down.  When NCL decides they aren't going to do anything to help their clients avoid these situations, they risk alienating those clients, I am sure they understand that and I am sure they are OK with it.

 

Airlines do not do it. Airlines tell you what you need to get through the check-in process. And while they may offer info or tips, they do not, and never will, determine what gets you through immigration and customs. They'd be liable for mistakes if they did.

[bonvoyagie]

8 hours ago, compfixer said:

She did a Boston to Bermuda cruise in August, it stopped in Bar Harbor Maine where they cleared customs! They didn't leave and end there!

technically the cruise began and ended in Boston and was a closed loop cruise. Bar Harbor was just a port stop. BTW it is only immigration that checks your ID in Bar Harbor - you still go through customs in Boston that all happens electronically from the ship. You must clear immigration on the first US port after visiting a foreign port.

[UKstages]

i haven't been on cruise critic all day and so clearly had some catching up to do.

 

my gawd, the things you kids get into while i'm gone, i swear!

 

like the OP, i'm an NCL fanboy, more or less. Like the OP, i book all my trips through casinos at sea. like the OP, i'm ruby in the casino and sapphire in latitudes.  like the OP, i'm scheduled on the 10/16 journey on the joy. like the OP, i, too received an email from NCL today reminding me of passport requirements. unlike the OP's girlfriend, i have a passport and already knew the requirements.

 

look, it's not NCL's responsibility to badger or coddle its passengers. it's just not. it's their responsibility to get them to agree to the terms of the contract, which everybody does at the time of booking, most without reading. in a perfect world, however, NCL would have reminded passengers long before three days ahead of a monday departure. that's just good business.

 

do they have to? no.

 

should they have? yes.

 

but i have a slightly different perspective on this email notification. it seems to me, since many people received this email communication today, for cruises very far out, that NCL may finally be addressing the very thing most people here are criticizing them for not doing! i am assuming, but can't say for sure, that they are sweeping the system and sending this notification to passengers  on all currently booked applicable cruises. and i am also assuming that going forward, they will be sending these emails after somebody books an applicable cruise.

 

just a hunch.  

 

as for passports, yes, you can absolutely get one in one day in manhattan and many other major cities, including boston (the OP appears to be from massachusetts). i've done it. that would be the way to go, in my opinion, especially since he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on for any service recovery.. and it will make for a great travel story, too. but the OP has rejected that idea. full stop. i'd ask the OP to reconsider. it's the only way to salvage this mess. alternatively, she could get a passport in boston on monday and you could fly down to bermuda on wednesday to meet the ship.

 

i think i may remember reading in here somewhere that the OP's girlfriend spent six months planning this trip. if so, surely at sometime during the past six months, she would have stumbled across the travel requirements, no?

 

as for the OP's assertion that he will never step foot on an NCL ship again, i'd ask him to reconsider. i had an absolutely horrific experience on my last NCL cruise, but here i am, a few months later, set to sail monday on a 19-day B2B. if i vowed never to travel via any bus line, cruise line, airline, dog sled or rickshaw company that treated me poorly at some point, i'd be forever homebound. 

 

as for people who wonder how upgrades become available right before departure... this is one way that happens. people get sick, people die, people don't read the terms, the travel requirements or  the contract. (i'm not saying the OP necessarily has a room that somebody would want to upgrade to., i'm just saying this is one reason rooms become available just before departure.)

[cruiser2015]

5 hours ago, julig22 said:

As others have already said, that would be a huge liability and not a simple task.  Rules change, no way is NCL going to accept responsibility for approving documents for hundreds of destinations from passengers with hundreds  of different nationalities. And then add restrictions that complicate the situation, due to criminal records, resident alien status, etc.

I don't recall ever getting a reminder from the airlines about my needing a passport... They simply tell me to check in at the airport, won't let me get my boarding pass until they've seen my documents.

Well stated.

Unfortunately, I feel compelled to agree.

[cruiser2015]

3 hours ago, ChiefMateJRK said:

Have you used NCL's website?  🤣

Yup.

 

So, why did you leave out the last part of my comment?

"As with many things, there's room for improvement" I wrote. 

[cruiser2015]

1 hour ago, UKstages said:

i haven't been on cruise critic all day and so clearly had some catching up to do.

 

my gawd, the things you kids get into while i'm gone, i swear!

 

like the OP, i'm an NCL fanboy, more or less. Like the OP, i book all my trips through casinos at sea. like the OP, i'm ruby in the casino and sapphire in latitudes.  like the OP, i'm scheduled on the 10/16 journey on the joy. like the OP, i, too received an email from NCL today reminding me of passport requirements. unlike the OP's girlfriend, i have a passport and already knew the requirements.

 

look, it's not NCL's responsibility to badger or coddle its passengers. it's just not. it's their responsibility to get them to agree to the terms of the contract, which everybody does at the time of booking, most without reading. in a perfect world, however, NCL would have reminded passengers long before three days ahead of a monday departure. that's just good business.

 

do they have to? no.

 

should they have? yes.

 

but i have a slightly different perspective on this email notification. it seems to me, since many people received this email communication today, for cruises very far out, that NCL may finally be addressing the very thing most people here are criticizing them for not doing! i am assuming, but can't say for sure, that they are sweeping the system and sending this notification to passengers  on all currently booked applicable cruises. and i am also assuming that going forward, they will be sending these emails after somebody books an applicable cruise.

 

just a hunch.  

 

as for passports, yes, you can absolutely get one in one day in manhattan and many other major cities, including boston (the OP appears to be from massachusetts). i've done it. that would be the way to go, in my opinion, especially since he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on for any service recovery.. and it will make for a great travel story, too. but the OP has rejected that idea. full stop. i'd ask the OP to reconsider. it's the only way to salvage this mess. alternatively, she could get a passport in boston on monday and you could fly down to bermuda on wednesday to meet the ship.

 

i think i may remember reading in here somewhere that the OP's girlfriend spent six months planning this trip. if so, surely at sometime during the past six months, she would have stumbled across the travel requirements, no?

 

as for the OP's assertion that he will never step foot on an NCL ship again, i'd ask him to reconsider. i had an absolutely horrific experience on my last NCL cruise, but here i am, a few months later, set to sail monday on a 19-day B2B. if i vowed never to travel via any bus line, cruise line, airline, dog sled or rickshaw company that treated me poorly at some point, i'd be forever homebound. 

 

as for people who wonder how upgrades become available right before departure... this is one way that happens. people get sick, people die, people don't read the terms, the travel requirements or  the contract. (i'm not saying the OP necessarily has a room that somebody would want to upgrade to., i'm just saying this is one reason rooms become available just before departure.)

I realize you've had a lot to catch up on, so I understand you may have missed some details. However, a couple of comments:

 

NCL apparently sent the letter out to a huge population of future cruisers, not just you guys sailing next week. I'd venture it was purely random that it went out yesterday. That's why it was not a callous act of telling passengers about something that was likely too late to do anything about.

 

At this later point of the discussion, I find it interesting that the letter appears to be directed specifically to US citizens even though it does not state that directly. Gee, their systems at least can make that determination.

 

Which brings me to my last observation.

After my shorter, late night catch up, on reading the latest posts on why NCL could not have prevented this sad result upon check in, my mind went back to my early lessons on programming. As a poster mentioned "if, then" statements. Others mentioned the too numerous permutations to solve the issue and the legal quicksand for NCL in trying.

First observation: you (the programmer) start simple by inputting the cruise type based on destinations. Then, a simple series of yes/no questions (e.g. US citizen; non- US citizen). After, perhaps, a few more questions, they could end any non-definitive outcome with a pop-up advising them to inquire further and/or a link to a travel doc requirements page before completing the check-in. It won't solve 100% of all passenger's status, but should be definitive for a very large portion who would be alerted to a deficiency.

By the way, in reference to our OP, the cruise parameters combined with citizenship status would easily be able to drop the birth certificate option off of the doc option list, alerting them to a problem instantly.

 

Lastly, I do see some potential legal issues if NCL were to be too specific for all possibilities like foreign countries with special requirements like visas - those are the ones that I'm suggesting would be looped into a recheck mode for the passenger.

 

While acknowledging those legal pitfalls as a legitimate concern, how is that any different than the pier check-in process? The employees must review all docs before boarding, which means they have to KNOW what docs are required. If those clerks can do it, are you telling me that a computer can't? 

Edited October 14, 2023 by cruiser2015

[Rock-N-It]

I’m confused about this situation.

Even if NCL allows you to sail with a birth certificate, how do you plan on getting home from repositioning cruise? Any foreign airport or cruise terminal on new check in will require a passport from US citizen.

Also being on so many previous cruises you should have a passport by now. 

Because traveling soon, you should be able to get an emergency passport. This will only work if foreign country allows passport issued less than 6 months ago.

[Ken the cruiser]

Here's a pretty good news article about the subject that got posted Oct 13 on Cruise News which appears to have been triggered by the email the OP and others have referred to.

 

Norwegian Cruise Line Issues Reminder to Passengers (cruisehive.com)

[UKstages]

4 hours ago, cruiser2015 said:

I realize you've had a lot to catch up on, so I understand you may have missed some details. However, a couple of comments:

 

NCL apparently sent the letter out to a huge population of future cruisers, not just you guys sailing next week.

i didn’t miss that at all. i specifically mentioned this in my post and it was in fact the foundation of a bit of praise that I directed towards NCL. while you quoted me (thanks!), your points seem to be addressed to what some others have said.

 

2 hours ago, Rock-N-It said:

Even if NCL allows you to sail with a birth certificate, how do you plan on getting home from repositioning cruise?

THIS cruise starts and finishes in the USA.

 

a more interesting question might be how do you plan on getting home from a foreign port of call in the case of illness, civil unrest or damage to the ship?

 

2 hours ago, Rock-N-It said:

This will only work if foreign country allows passport issued less than 6 months ago.

some countries require a passport to be valid for six months beyond the date of your visit. I know of no country that restricts visitors with newly minted passports, but i don’t know everything. 
 

53 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Here's a pretty good news article…

thanks for this!

 

this supports my supposition that NCL is in fact proactively doing what many in this thread have suggested they should do. you gotta start somewhere and, unfortunately, the email was ill-timed for the OP.

[cruiser2015]

3 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Here's a pretty good news article about the subject that got posted Oct 13 on Cruise News which appears to have been triggered by the email the OP and others have referred to.

 

Norwegian Cruise Line Issues Reminder to Passengers (cruisehive.com)

Great article.

Covers pretty much every aspect of this issue including why, how and when.

Good job posting it here, Ken.

[Ken the cruiser]

1 minute ago, cruiser2015 said:

Great article.

Covers pretty much every aspect of this issue including why, how and when.

Good job posting it here, Ken.

I saw it early this morning and thought it was spot on, as we were getting ready before going to the airport to fly to Toronto to go on our PCL land and cruise adventure, which I have a Live From thread I’ll be posting to on the PcL forum. 😁

[cruiser2015]

3 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

I saw it early this morning and thought it was spot on, as we were getting ready before going to the airport to fly to Toronto to go on our PCL land and cruise adventure, which I have a Live From thread I’ll be posting to on the PcL forum. 😁

Going to Alaska?

Hope the weather is good for you.

[Ken the cruiser]

2 minutes ago, cruiser2015 said:

Going to Alaska?

Hope the weather is good for you.

No, we’re going on a 5-day PCL land excursion from Toronto to Quebec City before boarding the Caribbean Princess and heading down for 12 days to Ft Lauderdale and then on a 5 day Caribbean cruise. So far windy.com is showing we should have relatively good weather most of the trip. 🤞

[PATRLR]

 

9 hours ago, minabruuke said:

 

Thinking back on every international flight that I have taken that required a passport, I cannot recall a single occasion where any airline verified that I had all of the documents that I required to board an international flight prior to my arrival to the airport.

My point wasn't the timing, but the fact that the airlines have the knowledge.  I made my statement in response to @BirdTravels who stated "NCL, like any airline, can’t make determinations for every passenger. ".  As you state, the airline does indeed verify you have the documents at check-in.  They aren't performing this verification off of some random number generator, they have the actual factual knowledge.

If you travel a lot, you more than likely have your passport information in your profile.  I suspect the airline is telling you at booking time what you need.  Just this past summer, I had United Airlines tell me for a trip to Sydney that I needed a Visa. So they do tell people at booking what is needed.

But as I have said, the airlines argument is irrelevant.  NCL also has the actual factual knowledge that at the very least a passport is required because they too are going to enforce it.  

 

9 hours ago, omahabob said:

Airlines do not do it. Airlines tell you what you need to get through the check-in process. And while they may offer info or tips, they do not, and never will, determine what gets you through immigration and customs. They'd be liable for mistakes if they did.

I have news for you @omahabob, the airlines already are responsible.  If you get to a destination and are denied entry, the airlines are responsible for you and responsible for getting you back to where you came from.  This is exactly the reason the airlines perform these checks.