Long time NCL cruiser. AWEFUL EXPERIENCE!

[PATRLR]

10 hours ago, minabruuke said:

I am really having a hard time seeing how NCL has handled this differently than what is the norm for airlines.

The difference is, according to OP, NCL didn't say anything until 3 days before embarkation.  Long after check-in.  

As I have said before in this thread, I am not saying NCL is at fault here, I am only saying NCL could have done better. 

[cruiser2015]

11 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

No, we’re going on a 5-day PCL land excursion from Toronto to Quebec City before boarding the Caribbean Princess and heading down for 12 days to Ft Lauderdale and then on a 5 day Caribbean cruise. So far windy.com is showing we should have relatively good weather most of the trip. 🤞

Sounds fun.

Bon voyage!

[PATRLR]

10 hours ago, desibee said:

NCL can wait for pier runners as well but that doesn't meant they're going to do so, and that it isn't the responsibility of passengers to be back to the ship on time.  This is like deciding to be mad at a cruise line for ditching you at a port because you were too lazy to check the time and expected them to text you a reminder of when the ship leaves.

Classic strawman.  But way off base.  

To make your strawman more like the topic of this thread, it would be like saying it's OK for NCL to not publish the time to be back on board and saying it's the passenger's responsibility to ask the Captain what time he plans to pull the gangway.  And my statement would be, yes, it is the passenger's responsibility to know what time to be onboard.  No disagreement there.  But, NCL could be better by doing something like posting signs and publishing the all aboard times.

[dbrown84]

11 hours ago, hallux said:

 

Sure, the programming is simple.  I'm sure the LAWYERS had a hand in things though.  As pointed out - if NCL just says 'we'll verify your documents are in order during check in' if something is amiss when you get to the pier with something out of sorts for some reason then NCL hold responsibility.  NCL just says 'it's on you to be sure you have proper documentation' and gives the requirements in the cruise contract.

 

If you want someone to hold your hand and tell you all is right - get a good TA and tell them you want that level of service.

no, I think you're missing the point.  simple if/then programming could eliminate the option of choosing a birth certificate on a cruise where it is not appropriate, such one that is not closed looped.  the idea is not for any type of document verification.  simply not to give the option.  I've never taken a NCL cruise that starts in another country. So for example, if there is a cruise that starts/stops in Rome, I got to imagine that you don't have the option to chose a birth certificate as your travel document when you check in for that cruise.  If you can, that't really terrible on NCL.  Assuming you can't, then the same simple check could be done on US based cruises (checking to see if it's closed loop or not)

[dbrown84]

11 hours ago, compfixer said:

 

I book directly through NCL casino at seas, have since 2011, they SHOULD know their own product and mention if something deviates from the norm. 

 

If I ran my business like that or my life for that matter, I'd be broke because I can't hide behind a website or scripted "it's our policy". 

 

Yes, it is what it is, I have this stupid thing called morals and pride, yeah, it was just port fees and taxes for.my free cruise, but it's the principle!

 

Main reason for this post is, hopefully someone else will learn from it! 

 

If they treat a loyal patron who literally spends more than he cares to mention in the casino, they'll do it ro Joe schmuck as well!

 

No honor or loyalty anymore, period, end of story. 

I'm so happy to hear that this is a CAS cruise so you're not out of a ton of $$$.  Make sure to actually call and cancel (vs a no show).  I don't know, but since you only have fees and taxes, some may be refundable. 

[CruiseMH]

Without having read all the postings in between: It seems that the NCL checkin process is not always accurate regarding the proof of citizenship.

I will be on a cruise to Italy,Greece and Malta,so completely within the EU. For me as german citizen my ID card would be absolutely enough. But when checking in ,the NCL site insisted on a valid passport.I had to input the data of my passport. I didn`t have any other option to choose from.

 

 

[dbrown84]

10 hours ago, omahabob said:

 

Apparently you've never done it. In this instance, it isn't a simple A=1, B=2 and C=3 proposition, like a single IF-THEN statement. A THEN on one calculation could change the IF on one or more other calculations. The answers to those might then change the IF on other calculations, or even on the original calculation itself, creating a loop. It's far more complicated than you think it is. I've experienced it firsthand, and it can be a nightmare. You also have to remember that customs and immigration couldn't care less what NCL checks. No matter how complicated or accurate the algorithms might be, ICE could decide they're wrong, and you're up the creek. NCL does not control immigration, nor should they be responsible for insuring compliance. That is, always has been, and always will be, the responsibility of the individual traveler.

Actually, it's apparent you've never done it before.  It is a simple A=1.  What would change????  If it's not a closed loop cruise, it will not be a closed loop cruise.  That is a very easy check.  This has nothing to do with customs and immigration and NCL isn't checking anything for the cruises.  They are simply doing a check if the cruise can possibly take a birth certificate and coding the check in process on whether to offer this option when checking in.  I firmly believe this code already exist and being used.  I just can't bring myself to believe that you'd be present the option of picking a birth certificate if your cruise is round trip to/from Rome.

 

I'll even make it more simple....have a database flag "birth certificate eligible".  Simply check for that flag when presenting the check in options.  same check they do for offering upgrades.  If you don't have the drink package, you're not offered the drink package upgrade.  so yes, very simple if then programming

[Capitan Obvious]

31 minutes ago, dbrown84 said:

no, I think you're missing the point.  simple if/then programming could eliminate the option of choosing a birth certificate on a cruise where it is not appropriate, such one that is not closed looped.

 

Actually, it appears that you are the one missing the point. During the check in process, the guest has to provide NCL with proof of citizenship, and a BC is adequate for this purpose. IN ADDITION to that, the guest also has to have the proper travel documents for the particular cruise (in this case, a passport). Remember, you are providing NCL with proof of citizenship, you have to provide DHS with the proper travel documents. Providing proof of citizenship and verification of travel documents is NOT the same thing. You need to stop trying to conflate the two. 

[Sthrngary]

To the Author, I am sure you are frustrated. Especially with little to no time to gain a passport. I have read many of the replies.  I agree with some and kind of confused with others.  What confuses me the most is your status on NCL.  

 

How can someone who obviously has had so many cruise, not have a passport.  The questions of birth certificates vs. passports has been posted so many times.  The Benefits of a Passport has been outline, yet with you almost being a Diamond with NCL, you never had one. 

 

Your issue is NCL did not give you the rules to the game early enough.  They gave you the option to just use your birth certificate.  I get that issue and would be upset also well.  However, you have to take a certain level of accountability with as much cruising experience as you have had to gain a passport.  Just does not make sense you have not.  

 

On to a solution. Since sending a federal express letter to NCL would do you know good since you are two days away from the cruise, all you can do is keep calling until you get the right person.  It seems all you want is a FCC.  NCL will not give you a refund at this late stage.  They will do to you what they do to everyone and refer you to their cruise contract.  Remember, you can get more with honey.

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

[Capitan Obvious]

6 minutes ago, dbrown84 said:

Actually, it's apparent you've never done it before.  It is a simple A=1.  What would change????  If it's not a closed loop cruise, it will not be a closed loop cruise.  That is a very easy check.  This has nothing to do with customs and immigration and NCL isn't checking anything for the cruises.  They are simply doing a check if the cruise can possibly take a birth certificate and coding the check in process on whether to offer this option when checking in.  I firmly believe this code already exist and being used.  I just can't bring myself to believe that you'd be present the option of picking a birth certificate if your cruise is round trip to/from Rome.

 

You seem to be assuming that everyone is an American citizen. Does a Canadian need a passport to take a closed loop cruise from Miami? Does it change if the cruise has a Canada stop? What if the Canadian held dual-citizenship in the US? What if the Canadian were a US resident on a green card? You mention Rome. Can an Italian citizen cruise from Rome on a birth certificate? What about other EU citizens? What about one of the thousands of people that have come across the US border looking to immigrate? Can they take the cruise?

 

Do you really think it is a simple as A=1? If so, you should get to work on creating the Travel Document App...you'd make a fortune.

[Capitan Obvious]

6 minutes ago, Sthrngary said:

To the Author, I am sure you are frustrated. Especially with little to no time to gain a passport. I have read many of the replies.  I agree with some and kind of confused with others.  What confuses me the most is your status on NCL.  

 

How can someone who obviously has had so many cruise, not have a passport.  The questions of birth certificates vs. passports has been posted so many times.  The Benefits of a Passport has been outline, yet with you almost being a Diamond with NCL, you never had one.

 

Read the thread Gary. The OP actually DOES have a passport. A valid passport. It is a traveling companion (college aged) who does not.

[Sthrngary]

5 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:

 

Read the thread Gary. The OP actually DOES have a passport. A valid passport. It is a traveling companion (college aged) who does not.

@Capitan Obvious Thank you so much for the clarification.  I really appreciate it and how you presented it.  I am a veteran cruiser also.  I love cruising as most people do on CruiseCritic.com.  I am about to go on a 10-Day Mediterranean Cruise with our best friends.  I booked it over 18 months ago.  My friend have not cruised a lot.  The first and I do mean first order of business was not only to make sure they had a passport, to make sure the passport was good for well over six months after we all return from the cruise. 

 

I was wrong not to read every single reply and all the information the author provided after the original post. That was lazy of me.  I know better.  All that said, this one issue is so very important the author needs to accept a certain level of accountability here.  That is my only point.

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

[dbrown84]

9 hours ago, UKstages said:

i haven't been on cruise critic all day and so clearly had some catching up to do.

 

my gawd, the things you kids get into while i'm gone, i swear!

 

like the OP, i'm an NCL fanboy, more or less. Like the OP, i book all my trips through casinos at sea. like the OP, i'm ruby in the casino and sapphire in latitudes.  like the OP, i'm scheduled on the 10/16 journey on the joy. like the OP, i, too received an email from NCL today reminding me of passport requirements. unlike the OP's girlfriend, i have a passport and already knew the requirements.

 

look, it's not NCL's responsibility to badger or coddle its passengers. it's just not. it's their responsibility to get them to agree to the terms of the contract, which everybody does at the time of booking, most without reading. in a perfect world, however, NCL would have reminded passengers long before three days ahead of a monday departure. that's just good business.

 

do they have to? no.

 

should they have? yes.

 

but i have a slightly different perspective on this email notification. it seems to me, since many people received this email communication today, for cruises very far out, that NCL may finally be addressing the very thing most people here are criticizing them for not doing! i am assuming, but can't say for sure, that they are sweeping the system and sending this notification to passengers  on all currently booked applicable cruises. and i am also assuming that going forward, they will be sending these emails after somebody books an applicable cruise.

 

just a hunch.  

 

as for passports, yes, you can absolutely get one in one day in manhattan and many other major cities, including boston (the OP appears to be from massachusetts). i've done it. that would be the way to go, in my opinion, especially since he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on for any service recovery.. and it will make for a great travel story, too. but the OP has rejected that idea. full stop. i'd ask the OP to reconsider. it's the only way to salvage this mess. alternatively, she could get a passport in boston on monday and you could fly down to bermuda on wednesday to meet the ship.

 

i think i may remember reading in here somewhere that the OP's girlfriend spent six months planning this trip. if so, surely at sometime during the past six months, she would have stumbled across the travel requirements, no?

 

as for the OP's assertion that he will never step foot on an NCL ship again, i'd ask him to reconsider. i had an absolutely horrific experience on my last NCL cruise, but here i am, a few months later, set to sail monday on a 19-day B2B. if i vowed never to travel via any bus line, cruise line, airline, dog sled or rickshaw company that treated me poorly at some point, i'd be forever homebound. 

 

as for people who wonder how upgrades become available right before departure... this is one way that happens. people get sick, people die, people don't read the terms, the travel requirements or  the contract. (i'm not saying the OP necessarily has a room that somebody would want to upgrade to., i'm just saying this is one reason rooms become available just before departure.)

excellent post.  don't you ever leave us to ourselves for a whole day again :)

[desibee]

1 hour ago, PATRLR said:

Classic strawman.  But way off base.  

To make your strawman more like the topic of this thread, it would be like saying it's OK for NCL to not publish the time to be back on board and saying it's the passenger's responsibility to ask the Captain what time he plans to pull the gangway.  And my statement would be, yes, it is the passenger's responsibility to know what time to be onboard.  No disagreement there.  But, NCL could be better by doing something like posting signs and publishing the all aboard times.

Congratulations, you made my eyes roll so far back in my head that I have a headache now.

[dbrown84]

6 hours ago, Rock-N-It said:

I’m confused about this situation.

Even if NCL allows you to sail with a birth certificate, how do you plan on getting home from repositioning cruise? Any foreign airport or cruise terminal on new check in will require a passport from US citizen.

Also being on so many previous cruises you should have a passport by now. 

Because traveling soon, you should be able to get an emergency passport. This will only work if foreign country allows passport issued less than 6 months ago.

In this specific situation, since both ports are in the US, they would not have had a problem with flying back home.  Of course, we speaking theoretically  

[minabruuke]

10 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

The difference is, according to OP, NCL didn't say anything until 3 days before embarkation.  Long after check-in.  

As I have said before in this thread, I am not saying NCL is at fault here, I am only saying NCL could have done better. 

 

For flights that depart the US, you cannot complete or even attempt to complete online check-in until 24 hours in advanced so NCL'S email went out days before check in would even take place for an airline.  One could argue that NCL was ahead of the game (I will not claim that). If you try to check in online for a flight with a travel document that isn't sufficient, the airlines I have traveled don't and won't tell you then and there that your travel document is the problem. They just give you the notice that you need to check-in in person at the airport.

 

The day of your flight is when you'd be told that there is a problem just as the OP would've been told when they arrived at the port for the cruise if they hadn't decided to actually read the reminder email that NCL sent out. I feel terrible for the OP but I actually think that they are fortunate (that's my opinion and I don't expect anyone to agree) that the email went out and that they read it before they arrived at port where there would've been nothing anyone could've done to get them on that ship same day. 

 

I just recently entered my passport information into an upcoming international flight reservation. Doing so changed that section from red to green and gave me check marks but that isn't confirmation that my passport is verified for travel.  It is solely confirmation that I entered the information; just as is the case with NCL online check in. I just don't see how a cruise line or airline could even program their system to verify that a specific passenger meets the specific requirements for a specific trip. At least not while requirements such as having, for example, 6 blank pages in your passport still exist for certain countries. 

 

Airlines are very much in a similar situation as NCL when it comes to verifying required documents. Once a passenger presents their passport, agents have to check databases and not just their own information in order to try to determine what that specific passenger needs to travel. For some passports and itineraries, the airport staff know exactly what is needed and/or it is easily accessible from their system. At other times it is not easy and the agents have to work just as hard to dig up the information as the traveler would have needed to.

 

I traveled to several countries in Southern Africa in 2022. We did have everything we needed but it took the check in agent at least thirty minutes of digging around on their computer and several phone calls to help desks to get the information they needed to be confident that we were good to go. As you mentioned, the airline would've indeed been responsible if they allowed us to actually board and fly without all of the necessary documents and permissions. 

 

Regarding the OP's claim that NCL didn't say anything until 3 days before... (PATLR - I am not adding this here to contradict anything you said but rather to add my opinion to the overall discussion):

This claim is completely untrue. That email was just a reminder. The OP showed us a picture of their online check in. The place the OP's GF entered her birth certificate was a section on "proof of citizenship" not a section used to determine whether a cruiser holds the proper documents for travel. However, the information is and was available in the "guest ticket contract" that the OP's screenshot shows that they confirmed they read. At booking, one is also notified of their personal responsibility. OP wasn't notified for the very first time 3 days before, that's just the first time they actually did their due diligence and read that specific piece of information.

 

I feel terrible for the OP and I am not an NCL fan but I see the fault lying solely with the OP on this one.

[desibee]

3 minutes ago, dbrown84 said:

In this specific situation, since both ports are in the US, they would not have had a problem with flying back home.  Of course, we speaking theoretically  

The more pressing theoretical problem would be what would OP have done if he or college girlfriend broke their leg while on excursion in the ABCs and thus could not keep cruising and had to somehow fly home without a passport.

[dbrown84]

37 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:

 

Actually, it appears that you are the one missing the point. During the check in process, the guest has to provide NCL with proof of citizenship, and a BC is adequate for this purpose. IN ADDITION to that, the guest also has to have the proper travel documents for the particular cruise (in this case, a passport). Remember, you are providing NCL with proof of citizenship, you have to provide DHS with the proper travel documents. Providing proof of citizenship and verification of travel documents is NOT the same thing. You need to stop trying to conflate the two. 

so wrong.  BC is not adequate, as everyone here knows. That's the issue here.  so clearly, you're also missing the point about programming the check in process.  but so be it

[dbrown84]

39 minutes ago, Sthrngary said:

To the Author, I am sure you are frustrated. Especially with little to no time to gain a passport. I have read many of the replies.  I agree with some and kind of confused with others.  What confuses me the most is your status on NCL.  

 

How can someone who obviously has had so many cruise, not have a passport.  The questions of birth certificates vs. passports has been posted so many times.  The Benefits of a Passport has been outline, yet with you almost being a Diamond with NCL, you never had one. 

 

Your issue is NCL did not give you the rules to the game early enough.  They gave you the option to just use your birth certificate.  I get that issue and would be upset also well.  However, you have to take a certain level of accountability with as much cruising experience as you have had to gain a passport.  Just does not make sense you have not.  

 

On to a solution. Since sending a federal express letter to NCL would do you know good since you are two days away from the cruise, all you can do is keep calling until you get the right person.  It seems all you want is a FCC.  NCL will not give you a refund at this late stage.  They will do to you what they do to everyone and refer you to their cruise contract.  Remember, you can get more with honey.

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

the OP does have a passport.  You can question why he didn't know, but clearly he didn't.  Maybe because it's been a non issue for him since he does have a passport.  It's his girlfriend that doesn't have a passport.  It's likely she has not been on as many cruises as the OP.  maybe even her first, but I'm speculating

[PATRLR]

7 minutes ago, minabruuke said:

I feel terrible for the OP and I am not an NCL fan but I see the fault lying solely with the OP on this one.

I agree and I've said the OP is at fault.  I just believe that NCL could do better.

 

[Capitan Obvious]

1 minute ago, dbrown84 said:

so wrong.  BC is not adequate, as everyone here knows. That's the issue here.  so clearly, you're also missing the point about programming the check in process.  but so be it

 

Sorry, no...you still are either not grasping the issue or you are purposefully ignoring it so that you can argue. 

 

The check in process is working just fine and needs no changes to its programming. The issue we are dealing with in the thread is having the proper travel documents. Not checking in. All parties were able to check in and provide NCL with the proper proof of citizenship during the process. However, that does NOT change the fact that one of the parties does not have the proper documents for international travel...despite it being THEIR sole responsibility to verify. (And in this case, it should have been even easier as they are traveling with a seasoned cruiser who already does have their passport).

[Capitan Obvious]

Just now, PATRLR said:

I just believe that NCL could do better.

 

The problem with that is the slippery slope. Just how much "better"? A little? A lot? What if NCL does "better", but it isn't 100% perfect? Will we all be back here at that point shifting the blame to NCL and saying they could have done "just a little more"?

 

The blame shifting and lack of personal responsibility never ever ends. It is always someone else's fault.

[dbrown84]

41 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:

 

You seem to be assuming that everyone is an American citizen. Does a Canadian need a passport to take a closed loop cruise from Miami? Does it change if the cruise has a Canada stop? What if the Canadian held dual-citizenship in the US? What if the Canadian were a US resident on a green card? You mention Rome. Can an Italian citizen cruise from Rome on a birth certificate? What about other EU citizens? What about one of the thousands of people that have come across the US border looking to immigrate? Can they take the cruise?

 

Do you really think it is a simple as A=1? If so, you should get to work on creating the Travel Document App...you'd make a fortune.

LOL!!!!!  all pointless to the discussion, specifically the discussion of suppressing the BC option at check-in.  3,000 lines of code that can be accomplished with 5.  good day sir/madam 

[PATRLR]

2 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:

 

The problem with that is the slippery slope. Just how much "better"? A little? A lot? What if NCL does "better", but it isn't 100% perfect? Will we all be back here at that point shifting the blame to NCL and saying they could have done "just a little more"?

Really?  So one should never try to improve?  Status quo, no growth.  Where do you live, North Korea?

 

And so what if we're back here saying "just a little more"?  I personally would like to think that I am always trying to be just a little bit better.  In my business, I am always trying to do just a little bit better for my customers.  What is wrong with striving to be better?

2 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:

The blame shifting and lack of personal responsibility never ever ends. It is always someone else's fault.

You quoted me so I feel a need to remind you that I have stated unequivocally that the OP is to blame.  My statements had nothing to do with personal responsibility.

[dbrown84]

46 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:

 

You seem to be assuming that everyone is an American citizen. Does a Canadian need a passport to take a closed loop cruise from Miami? Does it change if the cruise has a Canada stop? What if the Canadian held dual-citizenship in the US? What if the Canadian were a US resident on a green card? You mention Rome. Can an Italian citizen cruise from Rome on a birth certificate? What about other EU citizens? What about one of the thousands of people that have come across the US border looking to immigrate? Can they take the cruise?

 

Do you really think it is a simple as A=1? If so, you should get to work on creating the Travel Document App...you'd make a fortune.

I'm actually not assuming everyone is an American.  It would have nothing to do with your citizenship.  Since this is not a closed loop cruise, you don't have to check for anything else.  NO one can use a birth certificate, doesn't matter what country you're from.  I strongly believe that is what you're missing from the point we're making on this one.  Since it's not possible for anyone at all to use a BC (it's not a closed loop cruise), they should suppress the option during the check-in process.  This is what the simple if/then statement would check for.  No need to worry about all those other variables you're referring to.