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1 minute ago, BND said:

I know about the two passengers.  That wasn't the point.  I also know the history of Johnstown and that is a perverse comparison.

 

I think it a viable concern.

 

You have in the very small isolated confines of a small ship on an extended cruise one extremely powerful group of individuals who have in part completely contradictory motives than the main group and who can make the rules up for others and judge the others and decide the fate of that group without hearing them.

 

Jeff

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15 minutes ago, BND said:

What will be interesting is following along on this adventure.  And, that's what it is for most of them, an adventure.  For the most part those that have bought a cabin are experienced travelers and cruisers.

 

I agree that it is going to be fascinating and it’s also interesting that this project has over the last week or so exploded on the media.

 

With respect your point about the people being experienced travellers and cruisers in my view misses an important point.  

 

The point is more about a much wider business awareness and the alarms and cautions that might come about from a more guarded and cynical and cautious approach that an understanding of business models brings rather than the benefits conferred with cruise or travel experience. 

 

Anyone who has spent a lifetime fretting over cashflows will know exactly what I mean.  All of their instincts and experience tells them that it will not work in  the way described. Experienced cruisers and travellers may not do. 

 

Anyway we all hope it goes well and all wish bon voyage to the owners and we’ll all follow with interest. 

 

Jeff

Edited by UKCruiseJeff
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7 minutes ago, BND said:

What will be interesting is following along on this adventure.  And, that's what it is for most of them, an adventure.  For the most part those that have bought a cabin are experienced travelers and cruisers.

 

Question: how would you have done on Royal Caribbean's Nine Month World Cruise?  Notice the ship and the Line are much better than Villa Vie.  Slowly, I predict these people will realize, they are the "Beverley Hillbillies of Cruising," and that they are Scientology's Freewinds, rather than The World.

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31 minutes ago, gkbiiii said:

 

Question: how would you have done on Royal Caribbean's Nine Month World Cruise?  Notice the ship and the Line are much better than Villa Vie.  Slowly, I predict these people will realize, they are the "Beverley Hillbillies of Cruising," and that they are Scientology's Freewinds, rather than The World.

While the idea of a world cruise sounds good, we would never leave our family that long.  We see our two sons and two DIL's every 2-3 weeks.  We do holidays and birthdays together and my mother is 87 and we lost my father last year.  I can live vicariously through others and enjoy their adventures.  Some of the posts I've seen on social media about this cruise come across more as envy and hoping it fails so they can say "see, I told you so".   I also think someone has to be the first to do something.  While this isn't the first residence ship, it is one that wasn't built as a permanent residence.  I think everyone has to make their own decisions about what they do in life.  I've seen people regret many other decisions and be thrilled about others.  It's how you learn.

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1 hour ago, BND said:

Some of the posts I've seen on social media about this cruise come across more as envy and hoping it fails so they can say "see, I told you so". 

 

I totally agree with this comment, and I believe that this is a touch more complex.  And I’ll be honest and say I was slightly torn by it until I think I rationalised it some days ago - at least for myself that is. Bluntly I found myself disliking the bloggers I am largely seeing and it took me a while to work out why. I think it is about the perception of the genuine potential real victims - and those that may not be, and may even be the cause of some of the future victims. 

 

The fact is that almost all we are hearing from amongst actual customers are a very few prolific bloggers, who appear to be uber-happy, uber-optimistic uber-smug cheer leaders and give the impression of having skin in the success of the project and only very blog optimistically.  These in the majority seem to behave as though they are business generators, possibly founders, or referral affiliates. What is worst is that they seem somewhat smug.  I think it is these two factors that generates the syndrome you describe. I’m not certain that many who fear for the project then extend to those that behave this way a degree of sympathy if things do not go well.   In fact they might wish them ill because they see them partly as a possible cause of more people signing up causing more “genuine” victims.  If you get my drift.

 

They just do not feel like victims in the way that those that succumb to their “positivity” or the  original sales patter. But we don’t really hear from those.

 

So I think the impression you mention is certainly true but I think in response only to that small group of influencers who I agree with you that people posting may not wish them as well as those that are the quiet majority who might be considered “to be more innocent” future victims.

 

I think most decent observers of this are genuinely concerned for the very large number of the majority who we have not heard from and I think that they seek to simply post fears as points to be considered for those considering joining them in order to balance the overwhelming cheer-leader messages blogs who appear to wish to generate more business. 

 

It’s complex but that’s my take on why I think your impression is correct. 

 

Jeff

 

 

 

 

The 

Edited by UKCruiseJeff
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2 hours ago, BND said:

It's certainly not a desire for success.

Nor is Hope a strategy but that seems to be the view of many who have bought into it. They " hope" it all goes well. Voicing true concerns about the venture isn't being negative, and most of the concerns are realistic- the business model seems to be poorly understood by many, the $$ don't seem to add up, the constant lengthy delays and seemingly lack of transparency etc. the ship isn't anything like the "luxurious" standard being reported , cabins haven't been refurbished etc. so we all assume this will be done whilst sailing?  If so, how awful for the residents. I think the biggest concern is the financial viability. As for living in a box room with your only escape being to spend time with other residents it is hardly my view of luxury. Imagine the cliques that will develop between the founders and the other residents, and then with the segment passengers. Ugh 

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Just now, Charry_ said:

Nor is Hope a strategy but that seems to be the view of many who have bought into it. They " hope" it all goes well. Voicing true concerns about the venture isn't being negative, and most of the concerns are realistic- the business model seems to be poorly understood by many, the $$ don't seem to add up, the constant lengthy delays and seemingly lack of transparency etc. the ship isn't anything like the "luxurious" standard being reported , cabins haven't been refurbished etc. so we all assume this will be done whilst sailing?  If so, how awful for the residents. I think the biggest concern is the financial viability. As for living in a box room with your only escape being to spend time with other residents it is hardly my view of luxury. Imagine the cliques that will develop between the founders and the other residents, and then with the segment passengers. Ugh 

But, to each their own and good luck to those who purchased- it's a pretty gutsy move. 

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5 hours ago, gkbiiii said:

 

Question: how would you have done on Royal Caribbean's Nine Month World Cruise?  Notice the ship and the Line are much better than Villa Vie.  Slowly, I predict these people will realize, they are the "Beverley Hillbillies of Cruising," and that they are Scientology's Freewinds, rather than The World.

I don't think much of that particular line and the Odyssey, to be fair, is meant for just one third of the passengers that the Serenade of the Seas holds. With unsold/unrented cabins, solo cruisers and cabins sold but temporarily vacated, the Odyssey might tend to sail with even fewer than that. 90% of the glitz that RCI offers means nothing to me.

 

It's a different format, with emphasis on slow living rather than fast paced vacationing. I also expect that the Odyssey will be able to berth in spots that bigger ones just can't. (I'm curious if they actually go to Bilbao or will it be Getxo?) I'd happily accept more modest living quarters for a better travel experience. I did nine months and beyond on my uncle's ships (down below, not up above) and loved the feeling of having unknown adventures looming over the horizon.

 

As someone pointed out earlier, I'm happy someone is trying this. I am a bit distressed that some residents appear to be living so close to the edge after selling their homes and carting their possessions around the world. It might have been better not to have been marketed as a low cost alternative to a senior living facility. Probably a smoother ride for someone who could react to a four month delay with a shrug and wouldn't have their retirement ruined if they end up taking a five figure hit should the company go under. 

 

Keeping my fingers crossed for these nice folk,

 

Walkingsoon

 

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On 9/27/2024 at 6:00 PM, rebeccalouiseagain said:

You have to have a product that people can find.  Cruisers use travel agents and VVR doesn't cooperate with travel agents (red flag).  The product does not sell itself.  The ship looks old and tired and people will look for reviews.  The itinerary is not great-there are no ports that aren't visited by other cruise lines.  The ship is small and has few, if any, amenities.  Why would anyone book a segment on this ship when other cruise lines offer a better product, a similar itinerary and for the same price?

We sailed several times on the Braemar as was and it was a lovely ship, just the right size. Last time was in 2019 when we went through the Corinth Canal, a fascinating, memorable experience. We’ve only cruised with Fred Olsen but have never ever had to use a travel agent. Not sure what you mean about “few, if any, amenities” ; certainly it doesn’t have go-kart tracks, zip wires etc but then lots of us don’t want to cruise on this sort of ships.

Apart from that, this is a fascinating thread with several very knowledgeable contributors.

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18 hours ago, BND said:

What will be interesting is following along on this adventure.  And, that's what it is for most of them, an adventure.  For the most part those that have bought a cabin are experienced travelers and cruisers.

It certainly sounds like an adventure for the travellers but I have to say I wonder if it’s going to end well. We sailed on the Braemar several times, a lovely ship, hence my interest in this saga. Right from the start it sounded a very dubious undertaking. I didn’t do a lot of digging but the company behind it didn’t appear to  have the business background nor the significant financial resources for such a venture. 
We’ll see!

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17 hours ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

 

I totally agree with this comment, and I believe that this is a touch more complex.  And I’ll be honest and say I was slightly torn by it until I think I rationalised it some days ago - at least for myself that is. Bluntly I found myself disliking the bloggers I am largely seeing and it took me a while to work out why. I think it is about the perception of the genuine potential real victims - and those that may not be, and may even be the cause of some of the future victims. 

 

The fact is that almost all we are hearing from amongst actual customers are a very few prolific bloggers, who appear to be uber-happy, uber-optimistic uber-smug cheer leaders and give the impression of having skin in the success of the project and only very blog optimistically.  These in the majority seem to behave as though they are business generators, possibly founders, or referral affiliates. What is worst is that they seem somewhat smug.  I think it is these two factors that generates the syndrome you describe. I’m not certain that many who fear for the project then extend to those that behave this way a degree of sympathy if things do not go well.   In fact they might wish them ill because they see them partly as a possible cause of more people signing up causing more “genuine” victims.  If you get my drift.

 

They just do not feel like victims in the way that those that succumb to their “positivity” or the  original sales patter. But we don’t really hear from those.

 

So I think the impression you mention is certainly true but I think in response only to that small group of influencers who I agree with you that people posting may not wish them as well as those that are the quiet majority who might be considered “to be more innocent” future victims.

 

I think most decent observers of this are genuinely concerned for the very large number of the majority who we have not heard from and I think that they seek to simply post fears as points to be considered for those considering joining them in order to balance the overwhelming cheer-leader messages blogs who appear to wish to generate more business. 

 

It’s complex but that’s my take on why I think your impression is correct. 

 

Jeff

 

 

 

 

The 

Agree with your detailed analysis.  Additionally if I were on the ship, I wouldn't appreciate all the vloggers running around with the cameras and saying "We're live" while I'm just trying to walk around the ship. 

There are alot of red flags surrounding this entire operation.  However, I will have to give them credit for getting farther than the other residential cruise ship failures.. i.e. Life at Sea, Victoria Cruises, etc.  Storylines was launched in 2016 and still hasn't started building a ship.  

I wish all the passengers and crew future success and smooth sailing!

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6 hours ago, as3369 said:

Agree with your detailed analysis.  Additionally if I were on the ship, I wouldn't appreciate all the vloggers running around with the cameras and saying "We're live" while I'm just trying to walk around the ship. 

There are alot of red flags surrounding this entire operation.    Storylines was launched in 2016 and still hasn't However, I will have to give them credit for getting farther than the other residential cruise ship failures.. i.e. Life at Sea, Victoria Cruises, etc.  building a ship.  

I wish all the passengers and crew future success and smooth sailing!

 

But, the are "Life at Sea" literally!  This is the same executive group, who bailed from Life at Sea, before bankruptcy.  Notice they (CEO) exiled the two women, from Life at Sea.

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Although  it is 03:20am here in the UK I find myself uplifted by seeing that the Odytes are closing in to Brest at an elegant and regal 7.4kn.  

 

Every one of those people on-board will all  be extraordinarily happy, relieved, exuberant, celebratory and possibly … hopefully … drunk … and it seems to me that we should all be sharing in the delight of this moment many of us feared wouldn’t happen - and direct as many positive vibes in their direction in a collective toast to their stamina and optimism and to the hope it all works out as they all hope for. I find myself really hoping that some of our collective fears for them are misplaced and we are proved wrong. That is for another day.

 

Today .. against some odds .. has finally happened and life is all about one step at a time. 

 

Bonne Chance Odytes!

 

🥂

 

Jeff

 

 

 

IMG_7318.png

Edited by UKCruiseJeff
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5 hours ago, gkbiiii said:

 

But, the are "Life at Sea" literally!  This is the same executive group, who bailed from Life at Sea, before bankruptcy.  Notice they (CEO) exiled the two women, from Life at Sea.

Actually Mike was a consultant for Life at Sea. Trust me... I'm not an advocate and would not invest in this venture.  However I wish them future success!

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38 minutes ago, as3369 said:

Actually Mike was a consultant for Life at Sea. Trust me... I'm not an advocate and would not invest in this venture.  However I wish them future success!

Not only consultant. He was in charge of bookings and inflated the numbers. When it came close to exposure he simply declared the Gemini as unfit for the task. As LAS tumbled because of that he contacted LAS customers that he has something new in works (VVR) and convinced people to stick with him. 

The inflated numbers and subsequent loss of customers to VVR made it impossible for LAS/Miray to purchase another ship. 

 

After all that Mike presented the Braemer (Odyssey) for VVR which is essentially the sistership to the Gemini he declared as unfit. 

 

I am sure the majority if not all of the current customers he purged from LAS leaving them with no future income which is required for any kind of loan. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Travel_Around_The_World said:

Not only consultant. He was in charge of bookings and inflated the numbers. When it came close to exposure he simply declared the Gemini as unfit for the task. As LAS tumbled because of that he contacted LAS customers that he has something new in works (VVR) and convinced people to stick with him. 

The inflated numbers and subsequent loss of customers to VVR made it impossible for LAS/Miray to purchase another ship. 

 

After all that Mike presented the Braemer (Odyssey) for VVR which is essentially the sistership to the Gemini he declared as unfit. 

 

I am sure the majority if not all of the current customers he purged from LAS leaving them with no future income which is required for any kind of loan. 

 

 

 

Are you aware of the detail of the “handover”?

 

Did the LAS customers lose all of their money?  Were they offered any “consideration” by him if they moved with him and purchased VVR?  Were those early adopters expected to make up-front payments to VVR?

 

 

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