Tipping....yes, again

[Colorado Beach Bum]

5 minutes ago, aborgman said:

cruise fares on average are 0.3% CHEAPER than 2019 in real dollars.

Does that account for higher prices for internet, speciality restaurants, excursions and all other revenue generating items?  I’d think overall revenues are up to offset the higher expenses on just about everything. 

[aborgman]

11 minutes ago, Colorado Beach Bum said:

Does that account for higher prices for internet, speciality restaurants, excursions and all other revenue generating items?  I’d think overall revenues are up to offset the higher expenses on just about everything. 

 

No, that is merely cruise fares.

 

...but -

Steakhouse 2015 (October 2023 dollars): $49.16

Steakhouse today: $48

 

 

[Pyrate13]

Somebody is smoking something other than tobacco.😄

[Colorado Beach Bum]

30 minutes ago, aborgman said:

teakhouse 2015 (October 2023 dollars): $49.16

Steakhouse today: $48

You use adjusted dollars in one comparison vs real dollars in another.  I get it, one can justify just about anything if you want.  One thing is certain, the company wants higher revenues.  How they get there or if they get there is TBD. 

[aborgman]

32 minutes ago, Colorado Beach Bum said:

You use adjusted dollars in one comparison vs real dollars in another. 

 

No, I use adjusted "real dollars" in both.

 

"Real dollars" ARE inflation adjusted dollars. The term for non-adjusted dollars is "nominal dollars".

 

From 1997 to today - total inflation has been 90%.

Cruise ship fare inflation has been about 55%

 

So in nominal dollars, cruise fares have increased more than 50% - but in real dollars they have decreased about 35%

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by aborgman

[BlerkOne]

I believe in 2007 the Carnival Supper Clubs were $25. It is left to the reader how much that would be today. And the supper clubs had live music.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, aborgman said:

 

Cruise prices are down 35% relative to inflation since 1997.

 

In real dollars  - cruise prices have largely been on a downward trend.

 

Even with the increase post 2020 - cruise fares on average are 0.3% CHEAPER than 2019 in real dollars.

 

Are you referring to Carnival? 2020 data? Get something current.

 

Room service used to be free. There are many other changes. It is absurd to try to compare cruising of 1997 to today.

[zipper1]

9 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Are you referring to Carnival? 2020 data? Get something current.

 

Room service used to be free. There are many other changes. It is absurd to try to compare cruising of 1997 to today.

But on another thread you post something from 2015. Get something current.

[aborgman]

13 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Are you referring to Carnival? 2020 data? Get something current.

 

 

I'm referring to the average price of cruise ship fares, from 1997-2023.

 

Year to year inflation in cruise ship fares 1997-2023:

 

1998    4.48%
1999   -3.12%
2000   -10.40%
2001   -9.66%
2002   -3.97%
2003   -8.20%
2004   -1.76%
2005    1.24%
2006    -0.33%
2007    -0.55%
2008    -1.65%
2009    -9.26%
2010    1.16%
2011   -0.93%
2012    -2.73%
2013    -0.44%
2014    -0.70%
2015     0.87%
2016     7.41%
2017    -0.54%
2018     0.64%
2019    -2.23%
2020    -6.73%
2021     7.08%
2022    -3.93%
2023    3.85%

[BlerkOne]

51 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

I'm referring to the average price of cruise ship fares, from 1997-2023.

 

So you are assuming Carnival is average? Or has this become an average cruise tipping thread? Anyway, it is off topic 

[kirtihk]

On 12/2/2023 at 9:14 PM, mz-s said:

With the automatic gratuities, your gratuities are pooled.

 

The crew who wait on you in the dining room for breakfast are working on Lido for lunch and dinner for example. Your gratuities are pooled and everyone shares in the pool, so it all comes out in the wash.

 

How much you pay in gratuities is entirely up to you. I wouldn't get into that here because this thread will go on for pages and pages of people fighting.

 

It is up to you to go to guest services and have the automatic gratuities removed entirely, or scaled up or down, as you see fit.

 

What you may decide to do is remove the automatic gratuities and tip in cash the crew you wish to receive your tips. A lot of people do that and it works for them.

 

You may choose to adjust the automatic gratuities to a level you are comfortable with, and just leave it alone.

 

There are lots of ways to do this and it's all up to you and what you feel the service you received was worth.

 

I will say that I have a big problem with the ever-increasing automatic gratuities and the ever-declining level of service (rooms no longer ready at embarkation, only one room servicing a day, hours of dining cut to push people towards the buffet, etc)

So much complicity about nothing.  It should be one and only one price which is a cruise total price paid as of invoice, the end.  The same should be in any restaurant (land or cruise) and any other service (haircut or whatever).  Then no one would wonder what to do if and else, when and then, sooner or later, per drink or shmink, per stay or per shmey, remove or shmemuv, cash or shmesh, and so on.  And there would no tons of discussions like this one.

Edited December 5, 2023 by kirtihk

[kirtihk]

On 12/4/2023 at 10:58 AM, ray98 said:

They are still competing with other lines on the fare.  The additional costs you are harping on are pretty much standard in the industry and certainly comparable across the mainstream lines.

 

As for the rest....that is crazy talk.  EVERYTHING is passed on to the consumer.

The only question is who (in the outer space) is crazy?

[kirtihk]

23 hours ago, carohs said:

Of course companies pass on increased costs to the consumers, otherwise they'd eventually go bankrupt. Can you imagine still paying $0.35 for a burger? 

Compare the price of McDonald's in California to Wisconsin and tell me minimum wage has nothing to do with it.

Then... how doesn't every single consumer go bankrupt?  Let's think about it...

Edited December 5, 2023 by kirtihk

[mz-s]

17 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

So much complicity about nothing.  It should be one and only one price which is a cruise total price paid as of invoice, the end.  The same should be in any restaurant (land or cruise) and any other service (haircut or whatever).  Then no one would wonder what to do if and else, when and then, sooner or later, per drink or shmink, per stay or per shmey, remove or shmemuv, cash or shmesh, and so on.  And there would no tons of discussions like this one.

 

I used to think that gratuities were good and should remain, but over the years my opinion has shifted. I think that gratuities and tips should be gone across the board across all aspects of life. I know a lot of people share that opinion and very few people love tipping and would be truly sad if tipping went away, so I don't see why the culture can't shift in relatively short order. It's obviously bigger than you or me but it really seems like we're hitting a tipping point, pardon the pun.

[kirtihk]

6 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

I used to think that gratuities were good and should remain, but over the years my opinion has shifted. I think that gratuities and tips should be gone across the board across all aspects of life. I know a lot of people share that opinion and very few people love tipping and would be truly sad if tipping went away, so I don't see why the culture can't shift in relatively short order. It's obviously bigger than you or me but it really seems like we're hitting a tipping point, pardon the pun.

I've never understood tipping (I moved to US from Europe in 1991).  To me transparency is what's lacking.  Tips, gratuities, service charges, or however else it might be called these days should be a part of the total invoice/bill; then everyone would be happy (people like us wouldn't be bothered to think about tipping, and those who love it would be pleased to see that it's there, in their bill, as a line item, as port charge, tax, and/or whatever any other fee it might be like dozens of those fees attached to phone bills or air ticket's purchases).

[carohs]

47 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

Then... how doesn't every single consumer go bankrupt?  Let's think about it...

Plenty of people do. The reality is that there's bankruptcy courts for individuals as well as corporations. Also, there's the homeless. It's an inflows vs outflows equation. Simple math. If your outflows increase you must then increase your inflow or go bankrupt or into ever increasing debt. In other words ask for a raise or move to a better paying job. And people who are unable to manage their outflows and inflows for whatever reasons are specific to their circumstances will either ask for assistance or.... 

 

If minimum wage never increased a lot of people would never be able to keep up with the increased pricing of things. 

 

[kirtihk]

12 minutes ago, carohs said:

Plenty of people do. The reality is that there's bankruptcy courts for individuals as well as corporations. Also, there's the homeless. It's an inflows vs outflows equation. Simple math. If your outflows increase you must then increase your inflow or go bankrupt or into ever increasing debt. In other words ask for a raise or move to a better paying job. And people who are unable to manage their outflows and inflows for whatever reasons are specific to their circumstances will either ask for assistance or.... 

 

If minimum wage never increased a lot of people would never be able to keep up with the increased pricing of things. 

 

My comment was rhetorical. 

[coops]

On 12/3/2023 at 8:37 AM, Rdclfamily said:

Drinks are part of vacation.  I can't think of any other vacation where I tip $1000+ through the course of a week.  That's why I feel like with the addition of all of the pay-for restaurants, the way we tip may need to change.  I didn't do anything different this time around, but I think I would tip individually next time.  The cruise lines have changed the game, not us.  The way they pay their people may need to change as well.  Cruises used to be entirely free plus drinks and we used to all eat in the same place.  That isn't the case now. 

Sounds like cruising is not for you.

[Rdclfamily]

51 minutes ago, coops said:

Sounds like cruising is not for you.

You're right. If spending $7000-8000+ on a one week vacation for mediocre food, a pool I would never swim in + an indoor cabin + ports where you can barely find a decent beach or an excursion is what I can expect from further carnival cruises, then it may not be for me.  Last I checked though, that wasn't a Burger King budget.  

[coops]

4 minutes ago, Rdclfamily said:

You're right. If spending $7000-8000+ on a one week vacation for mediocre food, a pool I would never swim in + an indoor cabin + ports where you can barely find a decent beach or an excursion is what I can expect from further carnival cruises, then it may not be for me.  Last I checked though, that wasn't a Burger King budget.  

Just need to do your homework about the ships and cabins and ports and the time you go really makes a difference in cost and such. 

[staceyglow]

4 hours ago, Rdclfamily said:

You're right. If spending $7000-8000+ on a one week vacation for mediocre food, a pool I would never swim in + an indoor cabin + ports where you can barely find a decent beach or an excursion is what I can expect from further carnival cruises, then it may not be for me.  Last I checked though, that wasn't a Burger King budget.  

What Carnival cruises have you been on where you paid $7000-$8000 for an inside cabin? 

 

I don't think we have paid more than $500-$600 per person for an inside cabin, and that was for a week-long cruise. 

[Rdclfamily]

1 hour ago, staceyglow said:

What Carnival cruises have you been on where you paid $7000-$8000 for an inside cabin? 

 

I don't think we have paid more than $500-$600 per person for an inside cabin, and that was for a week-long cruise. 

I'm talking about the total cost of the cruise.  The cruise was $3000 for four people for just cruise fare.  

[sparks1093]

4 hours ago, Rdclfamily said:

I'm talking about the total cost of the cruise.  The cruise was $3000 for four people for just cruise fare.  

You mean the total cost of the trip, total cost of the cruise is $3000. What you pay over and above the cost of the cruise is entirely within your control and what you pay over and above the cruise fare has nothing to do with your cruise experience.

[aborgman]

16 hours ago, carohs said:

It's an inflows vs outflows equation. Simple math. If your outflows increase you must then increase your inflow or go bankrupt or into ever increasing debt

 

 

Simple math...

 

Inflows: $100

Outflows: $10

 

"If your outflows increase you must then increase your inflow or go bankrupt or into ever increasing debt"

Say my outflows increase to $20. Say I don't increase my inflows ($100).

 

How long does it take before I go bankrupt or go into debt?

[carohs]

2 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Simple math...

 

Inflows: $100

Outflows: $10

 

"If your outflows increase you must then increase your inflow or go bankrupt or into ever increasing debt"

Say my outflows increase to $20. Say I don't increase my inflows ($100).

 

How long does it take before I go bankrupt or go into debt?

Oh jeez now you remind me of my kids. Haha they're constantly pointing out where what I meant isn't exactly what I stated. 

 

Ok, okay let's amend to if you're outflows increase beyond your current inflows....or something to that effect. I can't think straight anymore 😅 😂😁