Will NEVER use HAL again!!

[HeatherInFlorida]

............

PS I am not lurking. I would be lurking at Celebrity, which was one of my points. :D

 

Me, too, jc!:D Anyone who knows me here on this board would never call me a "lurker"!! LOL!!! Although there may be some who only wish I would lurk;) .

 

But I have been known to read a lot on the Celebrity boards and rarely post ... so I guess I qualify as a "lurker" over there!

[Copper10-8]

The letter X on the ships' funnels is the Greek letter for C (CHI) and stands for Chandris, the line's founding family. In other words, the X is the first letter of the name in Greek !

 

Thanks for that bit of info! Learned something new today!:)

[dougnewmanatsea]

On Celebrity's "X"...

 

It's still nice to see the X (to me, it will always be "the Chandris X") in ports all around the world... Or maybe not so nice. On the one hand, it brings back great memories; on the other hand I have to admit to a bit of resentment that it doesn't stand for what it used to.

 

I was fortunate enough to "know" Chandris when they were still around, and they were a great company. They are one of two cruise lines that "ran in my blood" if you will (the other being HAL of course). Unfortunately while HAL still exists at least in an arguably diluted form, about the only thing left of Chandris is that "X" on the ships' funnels.

 

I can't really comment on Celebrity's current product since I haven't sailed with Celebrity since they were bought by RCCL - initially this wasn't intentional, but over the years I have come to dislike RCCL in their own right so at this point I really have no particular desire to go back to Celebrity. Whatever they're like today, I know it won't be the same...

 

I guess I must sound like Rotterdam now, going on about things "not being the same" ;) ! I'm sure they aren't the same at HAL either, but as I didn't know the "old HAL" it doesn't really bother me like it does with Celebrity.

 

Nonetheless, it is worth noting that HAL have a lot more autonomy from Carnival than Celebrity from RCCL. HAL operate as a relatively independent subsidiary within Carnival - for the most part, Carnival management let HAL's management do their own thing. Celebrity, these days, is just a "brand" of RCCL, with only superficial differences. They kept the brand name, but ditched just about everything else.

 

Personally I think there is no better endorsement for Carnival's "hands-off" approach than the fact that they have become much larger, more profitable and more successful than RCCL. I wouldn't call RCCL's takeover of Celebrity a failure, but it's certainly not been an unqualified success. (Their one other takeover, of Admiral Cruises back in the 1980s, was a failure, so I guess their record is at least improving!) Their really big mistake was assuming that basically anyone whose job description at Celebrity also existed at RCCL was redundant - big mistake! They got rid of most of Celebrity's shoreside management and rebuilt everything in their own mould. Of course they almost destroyed Celebrity in the process - by getting rid of all the talented people that made them what they were to begin with, they drained most of the value out of the brand. To their credit they did realise their mistake and backtracked in the other direction a bit, giving Celebrity just a bit more autonomy (just a bit), but it's still nothing like the autonomy Carnival's subsidiaries have...

 

Anyway, just a bit of an aside - I think a lot of HAL passengers who complain about Carnival don't realise how lucky they were to be taken over by Carnival to begin with! As someone who saw what happened to Celebrity, I'm just glad the same thing didn't happen to HAL...

[Jana]

Doug,

 

My two cents: There is no question that Celebrity is a division of RCCL. The two companies are under one umbrella, RCI. They share corporate offices and, while Celebrity has its own president and a somewhat autonomous structure, they don't pretend to be anything other than a division of the parent company.

 

Holland America, on the other hand, is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Carnival Corporation. It is in no way the same. In fact, it makes me crazy when someone says that HAL has "gone downhill" since Carnival Corp. purchased them. Quite the contrary! The line has been able to expand and bring out new products because of the weight that Carnival Corp. has lifted from its shoulders. That doesn't mean that all the changes are good, but they are driven by the market rather than the corporate umbrella.

 

It's the same with all of the Carnival brands. They remain independent and functional, and the one thing they have going for them is... PURCHASING POWER. You were, in fact, the one who told me that the Vista-class is a truncated version of Carnival's Spirit-class ships, and I'll lay odds that the Signature-class will be placed squarely on a Destiny or Valor-class platform (ugh, gross).

 

I think Carnival Corp. has done a terrific job with its hands-off attitude. If Costa CHOOSES to have ships designed by Joe Farkus, it doesn't mean that Princess or Seabourn or (God forbid, HAL) will follow suit. Each brand has its own style and its own management structure. Changes are driven by the marketplace and to some degree by SOLAS requirements (in design, at any rate).

 

Vive la difference.

[Bramcruiser]

This thread is now way off course from its original mission statement but I have to agree with the above two posters - HostDoug and Jana. No where have I heard more complaints about Carnival taking over than on the Cunard boards. On the surface, it appears that there is an incompatibility between mass marketed Carnival and higher end brands HAL and Cunard (as well as Seabourn and Princess). Yet one cannot help but think that Cunard would likely be gone if there was no Carnival and HAL certainly now has chances that wouldn't have been available to it.

 

This doesn't translate to "we must love the changes". Some people loved the way things were - whether its traditional dining, style of dress amongst passengers, small ships, activities offered, etc. However, change was inevitable because the market around us is dictating it. Sometimes its us and not the companies out there that are the dinosaurs.

 

I am glad that at least HAL and the others have the chance to remain around in some form and that Carnival didn't try to meld them all together as one large Carnival. Just shuddering from that thought.

[Jana]

Well, I am boarding Noordam on Wednesday. I'm in a standard balcony stateroom. I've looked at all the photos and I'm really disappointed in both its size and layout. I'm used to the S-class and R-class cabins and these look so minimal in comparison... a sofa that looks like an oversized chair, a desk that's all but unusable if my companion wants to watch TV, no shelves, no drawers, and that ugly medicinal-looking prefab bathroom... plus the balcony door that swings out instead of slides (a really stupid design, IMO). But, people want balconies and that's what they built. A similar cabin on S-class is considered a mini-suite.

 

I'll try to keep an open mind, but I don't think I'll be crazy about the Vista-class accommodations. My point above though was that we are the ones who have to adapt. The cruise lines are doing what we want, offering balconied staterooms at a competitive price. And people are buying them.

 

Oddly enough, the Spirit-class ships of Carnival (the platform on which Vistas are built) have positively gorgeous standard staterooms, with tons of storage space, fabulous lighting and a great desk/console area. The Spirit-class are bigger and have fewer suites, so the standard staterooms must be where HAL saved money.

 

Jana

[doone]

Jana, please keep an open mind when sailing the Vista Style ships. I vowed I would never sail a Vista, then the opportunity arose to sail with my friends for 7 days. They chose the Zuiderdam, I went along. I was pleased with my experience and totally enjoyed the entire week.

 

My favorite style ships of HAL are still the R and S class ships, but wouldn't say no to a Vista either. I just enjoy them all, but for different reasons.

 

Hope you enjoy the Noordam.

[Jana]

I promise to keep an open mind. I am excited about going. I was on Oosterdam for lunch once and really liked the design elements.

 

I know that there are things about the Vista-class that I'll like, but I am sure the standard balcony staterooms will not be one of them.

 

And yet...it's a HAL ship, so as long as I get my bread pudding, my ginger after dinner, and get to stop and listen to the classical music late in the evening, I'll know that I'm "home."

 

I love the aft pool deck, and will love it even more with the canvas covering.

 

Jana

[doone]

Jana, good for you, have a wonderful cruise.

[RevNeal]

You were, in fact, the one who told me that the Vista-class is a truncated version of Carnival's Spirit-class ships, and I'll lay odds that the Signature-class will be placed squarely on a Destiny or Valor-class platform (ugh, gross).

 

Jana,

 

Actually, no. According to HAL's own press release on the Signature-Class ship(s), it is a direct evolution of the Vista-class, meaning that the platform will remain the same. Just as the Noordam is an upgrade on the other 3 Vista's design characteristics -- there are some interesting differences, not all of them cosmetic -- so also the Signature ship(s) will be an even more significant upgrade. However, the nautical platform is that of a Vista.

 

At least, that's were we stand at this moment, given the information available to us from HAL's Press Release page.

 

Have a FANTASTIC time on the Noordam. You couldn't have picked a better Vista to try. I've been on all the Vistas but the Zuiderdam, and before I ever cruised on any of them I had sworn up and down that I wouldn't touch them. Then, a chance to serve as chaplain presented itself and I took it. While I still prefer the S and R class ships, the Vistas have their own appeal and their own charm. I've been in Inside Js on the Main deck -- HUGE cabins (209 square feet in an INSIDE cabin?) -- and in SS cabins on the Navigation deck. Both have been EXCELLENT accommodations. I found the outside with verandah cabins (when I toured them) to be smaller than the A/B categories on the S and R ships, but still quite comfortable for what they are ... and with a verandah to boot.

 

Have a BLAST on the Noordam.

[Stakeout]

leave 'likker' outside the room for pickup.. all I can say it ..it w*rked.. it was picked up... duh... common sense would tell you that maybe.. now just maybe.. that wouldn't be the brightest thing to do....also pretty sure if you went to the Disembarkation talk those things were mentioned...i got an idea.. next time leave your wallet out there.. see if it gets picked up.. then go blame HAL... give me a break...

 

overall I guess we just look at HAL with rose colored glasses for the most part.. yop.. everything isn't always perfect.. but when on a cruise no matter which cruise line one picks... don't nitpick every little small thing.. a cruise is supposed to be a relaxing and enjoyable event.. then again some people just have to b!+ch just for the sake of it... we watch them all the time... if something major takes place that isn't satisfactory that's the time to get one's hair up.. and yell and scream and do the letter writing to corporate.... but not for an extra crumb left on a table ... or a smudged fork..

 

sit back and enjoy the bread pudding with the hot vanilla sauce..and relax..

[RevNeal]

No where have I heard more complaints about Carnival taking over than on the Cunard boards. On the surface, it appears that there is an incompatibility between mass marketed Carnival and higher end brands HAL and Cunard (as well as Seabourn and Princess). Yet one cannot help but think that Cunard would likely be gone if there was no Carnival and HAL certainly now has chances that wouldn't have been available to it.

 

There has been a great deal of whining about it over here ... something which I find absolutely laughable given that HAL was purchased by the Carnival Corp in 1989. We constantly get people who express surprise that Carnival owns HAL, or that think it is a recent purchase and that the changes that have come into place since, oh, about 1999, have been a result of a "recent purchase." NONSENSE. If it had not been for Carnival Corp, HAL would never have been able to build the S or the R class ships. Indeed, if it were not for Carnival HAL probably wouldn't exist today. True, there are some who think that HAL ceased to exist in the early 1990s -- or thereabouts -- or that the HAL they knew and loved pre-carnival is certainly dead and gone today. That is, of course, their opinion. I disagree. Oh, certainly, it's not the SAME as it was in 1990! The only things that are the same in 2006 as they were in 1990 are DEAD things. HAL is not dead ... it is very much alive. It has simply changed ... as everything that is living must change. I'm not entirely happy with all of the changes, but some have been good. And, just because some things have changed one direction doesn't mean that they cannot be changed in a different one. Look at the Signature of Excellence Initiative.

[Rotterdam]

"I guess I must sound like Rotterdam now, going on about things "not being the same" ! I'm sure they aren't the same at HAL either, but as I didn't know the "old HAL" it doesn't really bother me like it does with Celebrity."

 

Hmmmm...interesting - so validity of a comment just boils down to taste & favoritism with the cruise line! Doug -you do have some good information but as far as actual ship/ cruise experience - you are one of the least experienced here on cruise critic...people seem to like your moderating skills but as far as actually knowing what it is like to actually be onbaord a ship while on a cruise, well you have a ways to go.

 

I do comment about HAL pre Carnival - but my point is that Carnivore sells HAL as a premium brand...when in reality its just Carnival in different colors!

 

We recently sailed on Costa Med in February....it just happened to work for us...I had sailed Costa Classica, Romatica & Victoria....we had an aft balcony cabin ...we chose Costa over HAL...we had a great cabin steward & the waiters were quite good also. We ate a lot of salads & pizza..the food in teh dining room was pretty bad - by the 4th nite we gave up going & ate ashore & at the buffet. They did a great job in providing a Super Bowl venues & food - & the food basically stayed the same the rest of the week. ...ballpark chicken wings & hot dogs on stale buns. One highlight was the fresh pasta bar at lunch. After 5 days I was over the overdone decor which was so Carnival - what happened to the cutting edge Italian designed decor from Classica & Romatica. So much for bigger is better. Last year on MSC's Opera - the quality was much better...I would still sail on one of MSC 's smaller ships before I go on HAL's newest ships. Next year we will stay at a hotel on one of the islands.

 

As far as the inside rooms - as the cheapest accomodations carved out of left over operational space - they have always beeen odd shaped & just used to generate more revenue. On the Statendam of 1970's - friends had an inside cabin for 4 that was larger than some suites today...if being in a closet is right for you or your budget - they are a good buy.

 

Jana - you have the right attitude - go enjoy...we stayed on our balcony most of time at sea & loved it. I did win $800+ in the casino(I'm not a big gambler at all) & soothed ourselves for 4 days at the Biltmore Hotel in Coral Galbles post cruise!

[Druke I]

I think your disappoint in HAL is being misdirected - sounds more like a lack of good judgement/decision-making on your part.

 

When we buy wine/booze (seldom), we take responsibility for its transport!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Obviously, in general this is the wrong board to criticize HAL and I do little of it because overall I really like HAL. I don't care who owns it. I think the reason some people think the Carnival buyout was recent is that both HAL and Carnival kept it under wraps as much as they could for a very long time and for very good reason.

 

Doug, I'm amazed at your post. I am always so impressed with your knowledge of ships and your input about cruising partly because of your youth. But I can't believe your strong criticism of Celebrity when you readily admit you've not even been on a Celebrity ship since (I was told and this may be inaccurate) Celebrity "merged" with RCI.

 

I am going to try not to ever get on another Vista class ship. I simply don't like them, both the layout and my category verandah staterooms. Jana, it's good to keep an open mind but I'm reasonably certain you will not be happy with the stateroom. It is everything you describe. Yet the same cabin on the M class Celebrity ships has tons of storage space and doesn't feel cramped (partly because of the huge floor to ceiling mirror at the foot of the bed. The bathroom, too, is far superior to the Vista's.

 

I haven't been on the Noordam and people I trust are raving so I may make an exception at some point.

 

But I fervently urge anyone considering Celebrity as an alternative to HAL to try it for themselves and disregard any naysayers on the HAL board. In large numbers, the HAL posters are strongly loyal and rarely (if ever) cruise other lines.

 

It's my view you cannot fairly compare two lines unless you've cruised both of them at least twice. You will never see me compare either HAL or Celebrity to Carnival, Princess, or any line I haven't cruised in the last 5 to 10 years.

[richstacy]

Let me get this straight: you put a box of liquor out in the hall with your luggage and you are surprised when it disappears? And now you are blaming HAL for it? :confused:

Richstacy

[dakrewser]

But I fervently urge anyone considering Celebrity as an alternative to HAL to try it for themselves and disregard any naysayers on the HAL board. In large numbers, the HAL posters are strongly loyal and rarely (if ever) cruise other lines.

 

It's my view you cannot fairly compare two lines unless you've cruised both of them at least twice.

 

 

I dfid sail on both an M-class and a Vista-class within 7 months of each other last year. S suitye on Oosterdam, Sky Suite on Infinity. There's no question in my mind as to which was the better cruising experience. I won't be going back to Celebrity any time soon.

[Rotterdam]

I dfid sail on both an M-class and a Vista-class within 7 months of each other last year. S suitye on Oosterdam, Sky Suite on Infinity. There's no question in my mind as to which was the better cruising experience. I won't be going back to Celebrity any time soon.

 

Can you give us specifics please..

[HeatherInFlorida]

I dfid sail on both an M-class and a Vista-class within 7 months of each other last year. S suitye on Oosterdam, Sky Suite on Infinity. There's no question in my mind as to which was the better cruising experience. I won't be going back to Celebrity any time soon.

 

So you've said, Dave! I'm sure most of us have gotten that message:D . Sadly can't speak for the S suite or the Sky since we can't afford either. I do know that absolutely nothing on HAL compares with the Royal Suite which we visited friends in several times. It's awesome. HAL doesn't have that "slot" filled.

 

But, again, you cruised Celebrity once and made your choice. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm not sure I would have cruised Celebrity again based on my first experience with them. I only did because I liked the itinerary and decided to take a chance. Have to say I really didn't enjoy our first experience at all. In fact, I was inflamed that they charged for their Captain's Club at the time and vowed never to sail Celebrity again.

 

Which takes me back to my mantra .... never say never:) .

[dakrewser]

But, again, you cruised Celebrity once and made your choice. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm not sure I would have cruised Celebrity again based on my first experience with them. I only did because I liked the itinerary and decided to take a chance. Which takes me back to my mantra .... never say never:) .

 

And I won't say "never" to X. Should the right itinerary show up, I'd consider the line again. I was intrigued, for example, when they sailed the Kaptan Khlebnikov in the Antarctic last season but, alas, they're not repeating that experience. But given that we prefer itinerary-driven cruising and that HAL offers far better, more interesting itineraries, it will probably be a long time before my next trip on X.

 

Rotterdam: see the thread "Heavyweight Title Fight: HAL vs X"

[HeatherInFlorida]

Dave, even though you didn't "invite";) me to that thread , I took a glance and will read more later. Unfortunately, my domestic evening chores are calling and I can't read it all now.

 

But I do have a question ... why did you compare the Sky Suite with the "S" when I would think it should be compared to the "SS". And the "S" should be compared to the Royal?

 

I say that because we really could swing an SS or a Sky, but not the S or the Royal. So it seems to me you're comparing apples and oranges.

 

Or am I way off $$$wise?? I wouldn't know because I've never priced the Royal and the S except to dream:) .

[Copper10-8]

Let me get this straight: you put a box of liquor out in the hall with your luggage and you are surprised when it disappears? And now you are blaming HAL for it? :confused:

Richstacy

 

Yep, you pretty much got it, all sixty bucks worth of it;)

[dougnewmanatsea]

while Celebrity has its own president and a somewhat autonomous structure, they don't pretend to be anything other than a division of the parent company.

Well... Their marketing doesn't mention RCCL.

 

They did recently add the "Brand President" and their own sales staff though, which is definitely a move in the right direction.

 

I am not holding out high hopes for SOLSTICE which I think will just be a "re-badged" RCCL ship. Though actually, the RADIANCE-class ships look nice enough. But not in the lague as Celebrity's ships.

 

Did you get my "gas turbine" e-mail? Hope I didn't bore you to death with my ramblings on East German "holidaymaker ships"...

 

I'll lay odds that the Signature-class will be placed squarely on a Destiny or Valor-class platform (ugh, gross).

They're SPIRIT-based again. HAL will not build post-Panamax ships in the forseeable future.

 

I've looked at all the photos and I'm really disappointed in both its size and layout. I'm used to the S-class and R-class cabins and these look so minimal in comparison...

HAL claim that the sizes are exactly the same on the Vistas as on the S- and R-class... Which, quite honestly, I find hard to believe, though I guess it's probably true.

 

Regardless of actual size, the S- and R-class cabins seem much roomier.

 

A similar cabin on S-class is considered a mini-suite.

True - and costs a good deal more.

 

But the standard inside and outside cabins on the older ships are also much nicer (and no more expensive) than their counterparts on the Vistas.

 

The problem with the Vista-class cabins isn't size... They're just not well-designed.

 

Hmmmm...interesting - so validity of a comment just boils down to taste & favoritism with the cruise line!

Now then, I never said your comments weren't valid!

 

My experience wasn't the same as yours, but that certainly doesn't mean your comments weren't valid. It just means that one thing happened to me, and something else happened to you.

 

you are one of the least experienced here on cruise critic...

I've been on 12 cruises on six cruise lines in 13 years... Undoubtedly not as many as you, but definitely not "one of the least experienced here" either!

 

I don't claim to be an expert or to be the most experienced person out there. Sometimes people think I am, which is flattering, but as I tell them, there are a lot of people who know a lot more than I do.

 

I do think I've been on enough cruises to have an informed opinion, though.

 

Carnivore sells HAL as a premium brand...when in reality its just Carnival in different colors!

I guess it depends on what "premium" means. These days in cruise industry parlance, "premium" is just the upper tier of mass-market brands. HAL are no more or less "premium" than the other companies (Celebrity, mainly) who use that word. Basically, "premium" has come to mean a mass-market product with a few "extras" thrown in.

 

Is there any real meaning to the difference... Not really. It's mostly a question of style over substance. The basics of all the mass-market cruise products... Carnival, NCL, Princess, RCCL, HAL, Celebrity, etc... Are all basically the same.

 

Even Cunard (except in Grill Class) basically is just a mass-market product.

 

HAL have, in my opinion, a very good product... But it is a good mass-market product.

 

I do disagree with you about Carnival... Most of the changes that have been made at HAL have been made of HAL's own accord.

 

We recently sailed on Costa Med in February...

Well, at risk of knocking it without trying it, there's a ship which has no appeal for me.

 

As someone who recently sailed on one of these Farcus-designed Costa ships said to me... "It was just like Carnival, but the food was worse!"

 

Generally speaking, Costa just doesn't appeal to me... I can't think of one person I know who has been on them in the past few years and actually been satisfied.

 

I'd like to sail in CLASSICA or ROMANTICA just to absorb the gorgeous decor and art, but that's about all.

 

That said they do have some nice Med itineraries which are relatively inexpensive, so I might try one of those... Only if MSC or someone else didn't do the same thing though. (As MSC grow, I expect they will continue to replicate more and more of Costa's itineraries... Giving me ever-less incentive to try Costa.)

 

Obviously, in general this is the wrong board to criticize HAL

What's the right board to criticize HAL... The X board ;) ?

 

Seriously, this is not a board just for good things about HAL, or bad things about HAL... It's for whatever one wants to say about HAL. Good or bad.

 

I can't believe your strong criticism of Celebrity when you readily admit you've not even been on a Celebrity ship since (I was told and this may be inaccurate) Celebrity "merged" with RCI.

No, it's true, I've not been on Celebrity since the "old days" of Chandris.

 

But really my strong criticism is not so much of Celebrity but of RCCL. (It was, by the way, a complete takeover... Not a "merger".) I simply want to point out to those who complain about Carnival's control of HAL that they have far more autonomy from Carnival than Celebrity have from RCCL... Which is next to none.

 

I can't (and won't) comment on Celebrity's on-board product simply beacuse I haven't been on a Celebrity ship in so long... But my comment was about their management, etc.

 

There is little doubt, I think, that from a business perspective, RCCL have not done a great job running Celebrity. One telltale sign is that if you look at similar dates and itineraries, RCI ships usually have higher fares than their Celebrity counterparts! That is, of course, backwards, but nonetheless it's the case most of the time. (Yes, I'm sure people can find examples where it's not... Most of the time doesn't mean all.)

 

Then look at Carnival and HAL... HAL ships do get higher per diems than Carnival. Carnival ships are probably more profitable because of on-board spending, but at least the pricing structure isn't backwards like it is with RCCL/Celebrity.

 

But in the end it really boils down to the different management styles of Carnival and RCCL. I'm not talking about the product or the cruise experience... But rather, the internal workings of the company. The way Carnival and HAL relate is totally different from the way RCCL and Celebrity relate.

 

I certainly would not rule out trying Celebrity. I don't really like doing business with RCCL - a few bad experiences have rather put me off then - but honestly, I really would like to see how they compare to HAL these days, and aside from being larger than I like, I think the CENTURY-class and MILLENNIUM-class ships do look beautiful. (They were designed by a very talented gentleman from Chandris... Made redundant by RCCL. With SOLSTICE's design entirely in RCCL's hands, it will be interesting to see what she turns out looking like.) Last summer we were going to take CENTURY to the Baltic. I really was looking forward to trying Celebrity... And especially CENTURY in particular, a ship many friends of mine have been raving about for years. Unfortunately, RCCL changed the itinerary... Going from two days in St. Petersburg to one (totally inefficient). Just getting information out of them was a long and tortured process... E-mails, phone calls, and so on. Nobody seemed to know what was going on. Eventually the straw that broke the camel's back was someone on the phone who flatly told me that they weren't allowed to divulge information on my itinerary (an utterly outrageous statement). When I asked if I might speak with a supervisor, the operator declined. I then asked to cancel the booking, which the operator was all too happy to do, obviously pleased at getting rid of a "difficult customer" who had the audacity to want to know what the itinerary of his cruise was!

 

This was not the first time I hadn't been pleased with RCCL's customer service... So you can see why I'm not rushing to try Celebrity. I suspect that they really are very good once one gets to the ship. But dealing with the pre-cruise (or, in a previous RCCL experience, post-cruise, when they nearly stranded us in Miami airport) has become so frustrating, I just don't find it to be worth the effort.

 

Of course, this is just luck. I know people who say RCCL's customer service is great, and people who say HAL's stinks. (Personally, I think HAL's is excellent.) In the end maybe it comes down to luck... I just haven't had great luck with RCCL. Combine that with the fact that I didn't care for their approach after taking over Celebrity - that is, firing (or otherwise inducing to leave) virtually all of Celebrity's management, the people who made them great to begin with - and I'm just not a huge fan of the company.

 

The bathroom, too, is far superior to the Vista's.

Which really isn't saying too much ;) !

 

I don't know if they've gotten any better with the newer ships (I suspect not), but ZUIDERDAM's standard bathrooms were atrocious!

 

Why they ditched the (infinitely better) R-class cabin and bathroom design, I'll never understand...

 

In large numbers, the HAL posters are strongly loyal and rarely (if ever) cruise other lines.

To be fair, I think the same could probably be said of any cruise line's posters :) ! All cruise lines have their loyal followers.

 

I'm not one of these, incidentally, though I am sometimes accused of it ;) ! I'm pretty much open to trying anything, and I'm not averse to criticizing anyone if I feel it's warranted. A couple of years back, I was being lambasted on this board for having an "agenda" against HAL if you can believe it! (Apparently I wasn't nearly thrilled enough with ZUIDERDAM to pass muster, even though I thought I gave her a pretty good review... Which is exactly what she was... Not great, not bad, but pretty good...)

 

Anyhow, I do agree with you - anyone looking into trying Celebrity should go ahead and try them. There's no way to know if you'll like something unless you try it!

 

Really, it's the same advice I'd give to anyone looking to try any ship or line. People ask me all the time, "Will I like such-and-such ship?" The answer, quite simply is, "Well, I can tell you if I liked it, but that doesn't mean you have the same tastes as I do, or will have the same experience as I do..."

 

As they always say, "your mileage may vary"...

[dakrewser]

Dave, even though you didn't "invite";) me to that thread ,

 

Threads are open to anyone, Heather - it was front page here for a week or more...

 

But I do have a question ... why did you compare the Sky Suite with the "S" when I would think it should be compared to the "SS". And the "S" should be compared to the Royal?

 

That's easy - those were the categories I booked! :)

 

I didn't try to compare the size or layout of the cabins, but the general properties of the ship as well as the choice of butler vs. concierge.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I want to thank you, Doug, for your explanation. I have to be honest and tell you that I don't fit the standard mold of a cruiser. I just love to cruise. If I get on a ship, love my cabin, like the layout of the ship, can put my clothes away, meet friendly, fun people, and head out to sea then I'm happy. I rarely find anything really wrong that I would need Customer Service. I've made an occasional visit to the Front Desk and that's that.

 

In other words, I'm easy. I don't care how the company is run. But I do understand everything you're saying. It's interesting that on our cruise on the Millennium in 2003 I sat for some time with the CD and he told me that RCI did not "buy" Celebrity ... he told me it was a merger. I believed him ... no reason not to that I could see. So he evidently lied (or doesn't understand the difference between a merger and a buyout :)!

 

But I love Celebrity. I love dining on Celebrity; I love the design of the M class ships. I love the unbusy feel of it, I'm never hurried or rushed. I'm never on a line (that's a lie ... we stood on a line to get off at Cristobal Pier). But other than that, never.

 

I'm not putting HAL down because we've had 1 amazing cruise on HAL; the other was so-so because I don't like the Vista ships. But we cruised with some really fun people so how bad could it be?

 

And I'm with you on Costa. When I saw a line snaking twice around the terminal in Ft Lauderdale waiting to get on the ship, I decided I didn't want to cruise that line. Later meeting up with some passengers from the ship in Nassau, they confirmed it ... one mess after another. That was enough for me! So it shows how easily we really can be steered away from wanting to cruise on a particular cruise line.