New Caledonia locked down.

[MicCanberra]

10 minutes ago, mr walker said:

I am no expert, but these are my thoughts exactly, and perhaps part of the reason that previous votes for independence have voted NO. The difference is stark between New Caledonia & Vanuatu in terms of govt services etc.

Enquiries a few years ago about taking donations for schools in the region led to advice to donate to Vanuatu & Fiji, rather than NC, as we were told that schools in NC were well funded and they don't need donations.

I hope for all of the people there, it can all be sorted soon. We love to visit Noumea on our cruises, and enjoy our visits to some of the outer areas of NC.

 

Agreed.

[arxcards]

2 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

Well they don't want it as the last 3 referendums on independence have failed and the last being 97% no.

As from one of the articles, the Kanaks boycotted the last referendum because of a cultural rule, something to do with mourning of a chief I believe.

Edited May 16 by arxcards

[MicCanberra]

7 minutes ago, Jim_P said:

Noumea is certainly no loss imo, I had been planning on just staying onboard and enjoying a less crowded ship. I just hope they don't change the itinerary to QLD or Tasmania. 

Pack a jacket just in case.

[MicCanberra]

1 minute ago, arxcards said:

As from one of the articles, the Kanaks boycotted the last referendum because of a cultural rule, something to do with mourning of a chief I believe.

Still makes it a no.

[SinbadThePorter]

3 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

It is a mess, not sure I fully understand what the Kanaks actually want.

 

I think that the problem is a disparity between the first world lives of the French expatriates and the third world lives of most of the native born Kanaks.

 

That plus land disputes.

 

The Kanaks deeply resent land being alienated on behalf of expats. They are also tired of promises from Paris about getting a bigger share of the local economy.

 

From the Kanak point of view, Paris is running New Caledonia as a South Pacific Club Med for expats and changing the rules along the way to make sure it stays that way.

Edited May 16 by SinbadThePorter

[arxcards]

14 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

Still makes it a no.

By default, correct.

That isn't what has their nose out of joint though. If is the French changing the laws to allow more of their "yes" population to become eligible to vote that has made them restless.

 

It is probably better for us that the French retain control over New Caledonia. I also think the Kanaks are entitled to have more say in their political system, but if the French lose it, then it will be headed towards become a Chinese controlled territory. Makes me wonder if they are secretly supporting the uprising.

[ceeceeDee]

29 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

I think an extra Vanuatu port may be required.

Yes, a bit far to throw in Fiji

[MicCanberra]

13 minutes ago, SinbadThePorter said:

 

I think that the problem is a disparity between the first world lives of the French expatriates and the third world lives of most of the native born Kanaks.

 

That plus land disputes.

 

The Kanaks deeply resent land being alienated on behalf of expats. They are also tired of promises from Paris about getting a bigger share of the local economy.

 

From the Kanak point of view, Paris is running New Caledonia as a South Pacific Club Med for expats and changing the rules along the way to make sure it stays that way.

That is certainly  more the case once out of the capital.

[rkmw]

It’s been posted on FB that the current p&o cruise Adventure in the area has Noumea and Lifou cancelled, they are going to Vila tomorrow and not sure after that 

[MicCanberra]

13 minutes ago, arxcards said:

By default, correct.

That isn't what has their nose out of joint though. If is the French changing the laws to allow more of their "yes" population to become eligible to vote that has made them restless.

 

It is probably better for us that the French retain control over New Caledonia. I also think the Kanaks are entitled to have more say in their political system, but if the French lose it, then it will be headed towards become a Chinese controlled territory. Makes me wonder if they are secretly supporting the uprising.

Do the French actually want them to have independence, if so they could just leave them to it as they have done elsewhere.

[SinbadThePorter]

10 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

Do the French actually want them to have independence, if so they could just leave them to it as they have done elsewhere.

 

I'm hard put to think of anywhere the French left voluntarily.

 

Certainly not Algeria or Vietnam.

[Aus Traveller]

23 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

Do the French actually want them to have independence, if so they could just leave them to it as they have done elsewhere.

The French hang onto their territories until the bitter end.

[arxcards]

58 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

Do the French actually want them to have independence, if so they could just leave them to it as they have done elsewhere.

+1. 

No, and the French are making it harder with their recent change. The referendum is a peace carrot, but they have just shortened the rope it was dangling from.

[MicCanberra]

51 minutes ago, SinbadThePorter said:

 

I'm hard put to think of anywhere the French left voluntarily.

 

Certainly not Algeria or Vietnam.

Yes, certainly not there or Haiti, but pretty much nearly every other former colony

[MicCanberra]

41 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

The French hang onto their territories until the bitter end.

But do they? History would say otherwise.

[arxcards]

A couple of hours ago, Pac Adventure changed course and appears to be heading for Mare or Lifou. They were going to Mystery Island tomorrow, so it looks like an itinerary shuffle. I am thinking Mare, although maybe the locals have given assurance and they are getting Lifou out of the way while they can.

 

As with Mic's thoughts of another Vanuatu port, it would also be the most direct course to Luganville.

[Aus Traveller]

6 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

But do they? History would say otherwise.

The French didn't want to give up the New Hebrides (now Vanuatu) and were only forced to do so after Britain insisted that they grant independence. the New Hebrides had been governed jointly by Britain and France as a Condominium. France also won't give up Tahiti.

 

Algeria only got its independence after a bloody war.

[MicCanberra]

14 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

The French didn't want to give up the New Hebrides (now Vanuatu) and were only forced to do so after Britain insisted that they grant independence. the New Hebrides had been governed jointly by Britain and France as a Condominium. France also won't give up Tahiti.

 

Algeria only got its independence after a bloody war.

Yes, they would like to keep some of them, at least the ones that make financial sense. However, most former colonies (dozens) didn't  have to have a war for their independence, only a few.

In any case, I hope there isn't  any more trouble or deaths in New Caledonia.

[Aus Traveller]

1 minute ago, MicCanberra said:

Yes, they would like to keep some of them, at least the ones that make financial sense. However, most former colonies (dozens) didn't  have to have a war for their independence, only a few.

In any case, I hope there isn't  any more trouble or deaths in New Caledonia.

Britain voluntarily gave up it colonies, but France had to be dragged almost kicking and screaming to do so.

 

New Caledonia doesn't make financial sense for France. The territory survives on financial aid from France. Their nickel mine is the other major source of income. Another major source of income is from tourists from Metropolitan France. That would possibly end (or at least reduce significantly) if the Territory became independent.

[austromyrtus]

china will be keeping a very close eye on what is happening....

[MicCanberra]

Britain didn't volunteer in every case, (US, SA, Ireland to name some) but again mostly via negotiation rather than war.

[Ondine]

A few years back one of our tour guides explained the voting system to us and who is eligible to vote.  Can't quite remember how it went but it was very heavily skewed to newcomers (French).  Not simply land owners.  There was a lot of unhappiness about it - this was around 6 years ago.

The nickel mine accounts for 10% of world nickel production and is the 4th largest in the world so it is important to the French.

[Kristelle]

1 hour ago, MicCanberra said:

 

In any case, I hope there isn't  any more trouble or deaths in New Caledonia.

 

 I have no understanding of the political situation but I do also hope the above.

 

Far more important than whether ports are open for cruises.

[ceeceeDee]

1 hour ago, arxcards said:

A couple of hours ago, Pac Adventure changed course and appears to be heading for Mare or Lifou. They were going to Mystery Island tomorrow, so it looks like an itinerary shuffle. I am thinking Mare, although maybe the locals have given assurance and they are getting Lifou out of the way while they can.

 

As with Mic's thoughts of another Vanuatu port, it would also be the most direct course to Luganville.

Can Tanna handle cruise ships?

[arxcards]

1 hour ago, ceeceeDee said:

Can Tanna handle cruise ships?

I think P&O has been there, but in days of smaller ships. Other than that, it is just a handful of expedition type ships that call there.