Is this a new Gratuities policy?

[Torfamm]

2 minutes ago, whitecap said:

And how are you not understanding that I don't go to restaurants that use my "tip" as a wage booster.  Just because the State says its ok for an employer to pay less than the minimum wage, take the employee's "tips" and use it to supplement their wage, doesn't make it right.  I tip to say thank you for great service, not be an extra employer paying a portion of their wages.

I'm curious, do you tip the same amount regardless of the amount of your bill or do you calculate your tip considering the total on you check?

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 minutes ago, karatemom2 said:

This is absolutely correct. Years ago in college, my husband was a server. Every evening he would cash out his tips and settle up with his behind the scenes colleagues per the restaurant guidekines. A set percent of his tips went to to hostess, busboy, and  chef. It’s an extremely common practice. 
 

in terms of this entire debate, it’s a fruitless effort in hand wringing. This type of pricing with crew gratuitous is a historical norm in cruising. It’s part of the cruise line culture. If you find it so onerous, maybe choose other travel options. Ultimately this crew appreciation piece has evolved into what a hotel would class as a service or resort fee. They charge these fees and you can’t remove them. I think the cruise lines need to go the same route - either make a mandatory service fee or add it to the fare. And then those people who normally remove it and yell about the fact the cruise lines should pay their staff a proper wage can either be forced to pay up or vote with their feet and vacation elsewhere. 
 

 

Yes just because it's happened and they've got away with it for a long time in the past doesn't mean they should continue to get away with it

 

Businesses are under lots of scrutiny nowadays and it's just some do the right thing before others do or they are forced to do with legislation at some stage regardless

 

 

[JimmyVWine]

4 minutes ago, whitecap said:

I don't go to restaurants that use my "tip" as a wage booster.

Then you don't go to restaurants.  In the post above I just listed 9 states because my fingers were getting tired of typing.  But you can see the pattern, can't you?

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 minutes ago, Torfamm said:

I'm curious, do you tip the same amount regardless of the amount of your bill or do you calculate your tip considering the total on you check?

In Canada it seemed to be add 15 per cent, 20 per cent of 25 per cent 

 

Very much based on total on check

 

 

[Bgwest]

1 hour ago, dog said:

Sorry- I would prefer to hear from current/ recent former crew.

Highly unlikely that a crew member (past or present) will post here. 

I know, I know. It sometimes happens hence my use of the word unlikely. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

5 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

Then you don't go to restaurants.  In the post above I just listed 9 states because my fingers were getting tired of typing.  But you can see the pattern, can't you?

Why keep distracting what cruises are doing onto what happens in a restaurant though? 

 

People clearly in this thread feel they are being misled by Princess tipping 

 

Thats simple enough

 

Me included

 

I can have my own thoughts and policy on restaurant tipping

 

But it doesn't change the fact people don't like what they are reading about what Princess are doing

 

Regardless of whats happening anywhere else?

 

Do you accept that the vast majority have no idea what the money taken from their card is actually being used for on Princess?

 

And something happy and positive they think they are doing to thank staff is actually just being used towards basic wages and bonus? 

 

 

 

Edited May 29 by Interestedcruisefan

[Ombud]

10 minutes ago, whitecap said:

And how are you not understanding that I don't go to restaurants that use my "tip" as a wage booster

I prefer the "no tip" zones where they pay more than the state minimum of $20 per hr + tips

[karatemom2]

Just now, Interestedcruisefan said:

Yes just because it's happened and they've got away with it for a long time in the past doesn't mean they should continue to get away with it

 

Businesses are under lots of scrutiny nowadays and it's just some do the right thing before others do or they are forced to do with legislation at some stage regardless

 

 

You do understand that by altering the business model to eliminate the crew appreciation pool service charge, your cruise cost will not change. Those dollars will just be allocated in another way - either via higher cruise fares or mandatory service fees? 
 

So I guess my question is - what is the big difference here that some are expecting the cruise lines to make? The money will be collected to pay the crew, regardless of whether in the fare, service charge, or optional crew appreciation? So if you realize this is going to ultimately be the cost of cruising, why are the semantics of how it is charged so triggering for some?

[JimmyVWine]

Just now, Interestedcruisefan said:

Why keep distracting what cruises are doing onto what happens in a restaurant though? 

It's not "distracting".  A cruise ship is a function of the service industry.  Indeed, one of the highest ranked priorities when choosing to cruise is the food on board.  And much of your gratuity is going to the food service staff on board.  So looking at a cruise ship as being a floating restaurant is very much apples to apples.  And to the extent it is not a floating restaurant, then it is a floating hotel.  And we tip our housekeeping staff at hotels as well, so that is an apples to apples comparison when discussing the tipping of stewards.  So what to you get when you combine a discussion about tipping housekeepers with a discussion about tipping waiters?  A discussion about tipping on a cruise ship.  

[Torfamm]

5 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

In Canada it seemed to be add 15 per cent, 20 per cent of 25 per cent 

 

Very much based on total on check

 

 

It seems to me to be more akin to a service charge than a gratuity based on quality on service when tips are are based on total bill. That's been the norm in North America for many, many years. It seems strange to those from countries that don't tip but most Americans accept easily that a percentage of the bill is to be added to their check when they pay.

[JimmyVWine]

2 minutes ago, karatemom2 said:

You do understand that by altering the business model to eliminate the crew appreciation pool service charge, your cruise cost will not change. Those dollars will just be allocated in another way - either via higher cruise fares or mandatory service fees? 
 

So I guess my question is - what is the big difference here that some are expecting the cruise lines to make? The money will be collected to pay the crew, regardless of whether in the fare, service charge, or optional crew appreciation? So if you realize this is going to ultimately be the cost of cruising, why are the semantics of how it is charged so triggering for some?

As I said earlier--in grade school we learned the transitive property of addition.  Apparently many skipped class that day! 😁

[whitecap]

So, taking a few minutes to re-read all the post and comments I think I have a handle on this and have found the "common ground".  First, "crew appreciation" is mis-leading as it would lead a person to believe that they are appreciating the service provided by the crew on the ship they are currently on; secondly, a cruiser has the ability to remove automatic gratuities and provide a "tip" to an individual for good/excellent service to the person(s) with a cash tip; third, those that want to pay the automatic wage supplement, also known as gratuities, can do so understanding that the money goes to Princess, not necessarily to anyone or group of individuals on the current sailing.  Individual decisions made by individual cruisers and there is no right or wrong.  It's your money be well informed as to how it is used and make your own decision.  

[kywildcatfanone]

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that the gratuities made up the majority of the crew's compensation if not 100%.

[whitecap]

13 minutes ago, Torfamm said:

I'm curious, do you tip the same amount regardless of the amount of your bill or do you calculate your tip considering the total on you check?

It really doesn't matter how I calculate my tip, my tip is a tip, not a wage booster.

[dog]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I'll make my typical "one and done" post to a tipping thread.  DSC (I refuse to call them "gratuities", regardless of what the cruise line calls them), is, and always has been the majority of the crew's "compensation package".  In the past, the DSC made up more of the total compensation, and today, there is a minimum wage requirement (more on this later), but even today, the DSC makes up more than half of the crew's compensation.  This is clearly spelled out in their employment contract, that "x" amount is monthly wage, and "y" amount is DSC, which is spelled out as variable depending on passenger participation.

 

As for the minimum wage I mentioned above, the typical cabin steward pay is around $1200-1400/month, but the minimum wage is only $666/month this year.  Until the removal of DSC reaches the point where the crew are receiving less than the minimum $666/month, the cruise line does not have to make up the difference.

 

Whether or not a cruise line uses DSC to pay the crew or not, if they didn't, they would just raise the cruise fare to cover what the labor market would require as total compensation for the crew.  There are two reasons the cruise lines use DSC:

1.  It allows them to post the lowest possible cruise fare

2.  It provides them with a "carrot and stick" management of the crew's service by making it dependent on every crew member to self-police their colleagues in order to get the maximum compensation, and allows the cruise line to shift the "blame" for reducing the compensation to the passenger.

 

I don't agree with it, and have never liked it, but it isn't going away, and those who remove the DSC to "tip" those who they feel did extra, are rewarding those people less than a traditional tip would (since they have already removed part of their compensation), and punishing others who may have done a fine, but not excellent, job by removing their compensation.

Appreciate hearing from you again.

You helped me decide re: my situation for Next cruise.

[Torfamm]

29 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

To find it's actually a "staff compensation" charge

 

Which is exactly  what they should call it when they inform you what they intend to do

 

Rather than calling it something  flowery and misleading when you book then telling you what it really is should you go looking further 

 

 

 

This discussion made me realize that I'm not sure that tips weren't pooled in the old days when we were told exactly how much they suggested be placed in each envelope and handed to staff on the last night of a cruise. I've never heard any discussion about whether pooling is new. I have to acknowledge that this policy could actually be more transparent.

[Interestedcruisefan]

5 minutes ago, karatemom2 said:

You do understand that by altering the business model to eliminate the crew appreciation pool service charge, your cruise cost will not change. Those dollars will just be allocated in another way - either via higher cruise fares or mandatory service fees? 
 

So I guess my question is - what is the big difference here that some are expecting the cruise lines to make? The money will be collected to pay the crew, regardless of whether in the fare, service charge, or optional crew appreciation? So if you realize this is going to ultimately be the cost of cruising, why are the semantics of how it is charged so triggering for some?

For me it's not the cost at all

 

It's the lack of transparency and feeling I've  been duped

 

Not convinced about the money at all

 

Purely concerned that I know any money I spend with a business is going where I think it is

 

And dismayed about how blatantly this is being used to hoodwink people

 

And angry they caught me with it tbh

 

I gave my cabin steward cash last month as well. Plus gave my daughters and boyfriends cabin steward cash as well as paying their card tips for them 

 

Would have removed tips without a second thought and just paid more cash to the stewards and others on the ship

 

Let the ship worry about paying wages and having to put prices up

[Torfamm]

3 minutes ago, whitecap said:

It really doesn't matter how I calculate my tip, my tip is a tip, not a wage booster.

I suspect the person who receives it counts on it as part of their wages though just as cruise ship staff do.

[Interestedcruisefan]

6 minutes ago, kywildcatfanone said:

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that the gratuities made up the majority of the crew's compensation if not 100%.

Common knowledge where and how exactly?

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 minutes ago, Torfamm said:

This discussion made me realize that I'm not sure that tips weren't pooled in the old days when we were told exactly how much they suggested be placed in each envelope and handed to staff on the last night of a cruise. I've never heard any discussion about whether pooling is new. I have to acknowledge that this policy could actually be more transparent.

It couldn't be any less transparent if you tried to be honest

[Bgwest]

1 hour ago, PMGS247 said:

The system stinks, but it is the system, and if you know how it works, you realize removing the DSC is just short changing the crew,

As another poster so adroitly put it, it’s the cruise line that is short changing the crew and shifting blame to the passengers. 

If the cruise lines would simply do the right thing and pay THEIR employees a living wage and dispense with this mindless shell game, there are many (most) who would pay the fare and go on with life. And could then tip for extraordinary service. 

[Torfamm]

2 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

 

 

Let the ship worry about paying wages and having to put prices up

I couldn't agree more.  The simplest thing would to just add $16 or $17 per day to cruise fares.

[Rudy888]

Removing gratuities and tipping individually won't work in all cases. It may work with your cabin steward but what about waiters and Assitant waiters. If your are anytime dining you may have a different wait staff every night. Do you then tip every night, what a bother. You can arrange the same wait staff but I believe they like the same time every night. It is a problem.

[karatemom2]

1 minute ago, Torfamm said:

I couldn't agree more.  The simplest thing would to just add $16 or $17 per day to cruise fares.

 
But in reality, why is that different then just charging that same amount as a daily crew appreciation? The cost is the cost - it comes out the same. 
 

if you don’t object to paying the daily service cost, what difference does semantics make? Whether it is in the fare, or added to the fare as an onboard expense?

[Interestedcruisefan]

10 minutes ago, whitecap said:

So, taking a few minutes to re-read all the post and comments I think I have a handle on this and have found the "common ground".  First, "crew appreciation" is mis-leading as it would lead a person to believe that they are appreciating the service provided by the crew on the ship they are currently on; secondly, a cruiser has the ability to remove automatic gratuities and provide a "tip" to an individual for good/excellent service to the person(s) with a cash tip; third, those that want to pay the automatic wage supplement, also known as gratuities, can do so understanding that the money goes to Princess, not necessarily to anyone or group of individuals on the current sailing.  Individual decisions made by individual cruisers and there is no right or wrong.  It's your money be well informed as to how it is used and make your own decision.  

All correct

 

Misleading and we are actually NOT appreciating any crew at all we are simply giving Princess more of our cash direct for them to spend on their costs, add to their profits and/or pay shareholders with effectively

 

Rather than them put prices up and remove the entirely misleading daily crew appreciation tag

 

Even the word daily is cleverly used to make you think it's the daily service you are tipping for

 

At the end of the day its a surcharge they take in one lump sum that sounds better if spread daily!