Silversea Shenanigans Onboard Silver Muse

[UKCruiseJeff]

2 minutes ago, Gourmet Gal said:

Is this common that travel agents pursue arbitration with cruise lines?  I can see where they would for a client but would it make it difficult to conduct business with them in the future?  All this seems so unusual and I just have never seen an issue with a free perk be escalated to such an extent.

 

I have had experience of where the line promised me and other passengers a full refund to keep us quiet on a problematic cruise.  When we got back and sought the refund we were cheated.  I asked the TA to intervene but it turned out that her relationship with the line was more important than my one with her. That was because she essentially was enjoying free cruises by forming groups.  That was her life. It was clear that if I had been with another agent I knew I would have received the refund.  In the end I didn’t pursue it because whilst I felt certain I’d succeed the amount of cash really wasn’t as important compared with the effort.  Sometimes it’s better to shrug, put it down to experience and move on. 

 

So a TA can make all the difference as long as you choose carefully.

 

Jeff

[tnm6217]

32 minutes ago, Gourmet Gal said:

Is this common that travel agents pursue arbitration with cruise lines?  I can see where they would for a client but would it make it difficult to conduct business with them in the future?  All this seems so unusual and I just have never seen an issue with a free perk be escalated to such an extent.

 

@Gourmet Gal I booked and fully paid for this cruise before I ever became a TA. I am pursuing this as a guest who wants to hold the cruise line accountable. 

 

I became a TA because I truly love sharing the joy of cruising with others. I don't need the business, and I choose who I work with to ensure I have sufficient time to devote to each client's experience. At this point, I have strong reservations about recommending SS to a client.

Edited Monday at 12:37 AM by tnm6217

[UKCruiseJeff]

44 minutes ago, tnm6217 said:

At this point, I have strong reservations about recommending SS to a client.

 

Hi,

 

I was surprised by your ambivalence considering your experience.  Perhaps I’m just more binary.  No one ever gets a second chance to cheat me.  So why would I send others to them.  

 

I’m clearly missing something.

 

Jeff

Edited Monday at 01:11 AM by UKCruiseJeff

[agape01]

5 hours ago, DavyWavey70 said:

Banning a TA/Attorney for forcing them to honour their contract might just possibly be the most stupid decision that they could ever make. I Can only imagine the publicity that could be generated by such a move.

 

I guess the OP would be taking SS to court over a matter of not honoring the contract listed on their website. Only when that happens, then it would be a big deal.
 

[Nachosdelux]

10 hours ago, DavyWavey70 said:

Banning a TA/Attorney for forcing them to honour their contract might just possibly be the most stupid decision that they could ever make. I Can only imagine the publicity that could be generated by such a move.

 

 

I have a family member who is chief counsel for a major US airline.  At holiday time, he shares entertaining stories about passengers (customers) who are banned for life from that airline.

 

As you would expect, most of them are due to violence or fraud.

 

However, the next largest category is those who file (what they consider to be) petty/annoyance legal actions against them.  He told me that the MAJORITY of those situations involve a person who is an attorney, or their spouse is one.

 

 His guess is that this is the case because they are emotionally involved, and an attorney with no connection to the case would never take it.  

 

So I don't see it as a problem (legal or public relations) for Silversea to ban the OP, especially since she is going to be a TA and representing customers.

 

Frankly, IMHO, a $35 or so dispute over a $12000 cruise is De Minimus and would never see a courtroom.  Just write a letter to the CEO and take your business elsewhere.

[dawntrdr]

And if the OP did settle for money as she seeks, there would certainly be a nondisclosure agreement so that she could not post about the settlement other than to say the dispute is settled, and maybe not even that.   

[tnm6217]

10 hours ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

I was surprised by your ambivalence considering your experience.  Perhaps I’m just more binary.  No one ever gets a second chance to cheat me.  So why would I send others to them.  

 

I’m clearly missing something.

 

@UKCruiseJeff I appreciate your insight! I met plenty of folks on the cruise who were very happy with their SS experience. If I had a client who was happy with the SS product, I don't think I would try to convince them otherwise if they felt the product was a good value for their money. 

 

47 minutes ago, Nachosdelux said:

Frankly, IMHO, a $35 or so dispute over a $12000 cruise is De Minimus and would never see a courtroom.  Just write a letter to the CEO and take your business elsewhere.

 

@Nachosdelux That's essentially what I'm doing, except by utilizing the mandatory arbitration clause, I'm guaranteed an informal settlement conference. By participating in the VS program, we all agree to arbitration -- there is no redress in court. If they had honored the benefit or corrected the issue within the first day or two, I wouldn't have read the T&Cs so closely and come across the arbitration clause. 

 

The perk I didn't receive may be small, but the principle is not. If they ban me, I'll survive! I really do appreciate everyone's input on this issue. It's been very informative to hear the different perspectives.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Thanks.  I thought it might be that.  I think simply you are a nice more rounded person than me.  I tend not to forgive unless I’m asked to as I believe forgiveness is patronising when imposed on those that don’t seek it or want it.  

 

In 1976 I took a tour company in the UK to the high court for breach of contract with respect to a very high cost 4 week rental property on the best beach in Barbados and it was a 5 day hearing which we won.  To that date it was the highest holiday claim to ever be bought in the UK and had close media interest.   It was then subsequently used as an important precedent for future cases because apart from the refund we achieved I was personally awarded a significant amount for the work I did to make my families holiday better by undertaking chores we’d paid for and therefore to compensate for the defendants refund reduction - if you get my drift.  In summary the judge said the unforgettable comment “When the defendants evidence i supports the evidence of the claimant I find wholly in favour of the defendant.  When it contradicts the evidence given by the claimant I find wholly in favour of the claimant”  I will never forget it.  It validated my decision to sue when all I really wanted originally was a genuine apology and small refund in goodwill.  I was rebuffed and so I pushed on.  I had already had enquiry agents investigate him to ensure that money was available if I won and I knew about the value of the company cars etc and other stuff.  The court gave him seven days to pay and on the eight I sent in bailiffs to seize the cars and other stuff and within an hour he transferred the cash to our accounts with all court costs in full.

 

I named my current house after the property in Barbados because I used the award as a deposit for it.  I then sent the MD of the travel company a christmas card with  a picture of the  house and house  sign and thanked him for the contribution.   Life doesn’t get much sweeter.

 

I hope things go well.  

 

Jeff

[highplanesdrifters]

21 hours ago, tnm6217 said:

@Gourmet Gal Fair question! I’m requesting monetary compensation, not a future cruise credit. I want corporate to address their unwillingness to honor the stated VS terms and conditions. I’m an attorney, so it’s not an inconvenience for me to pursue this further. I’m hoping the legal department wasn’t aware of what was communicated to the fleet regarding the upgraded Champagne, and I’d be very happy if my notice of disagreement ends up correcting the situation fleet-wide so other guests don’t have to deal with this. 

 

Have you considered a go fund me page? If so, count me in.  

[jjs217]

Monetary compensation?  Much Ado About Nothing.  Just don't sail on SS again and be done with it.

[DavyWavey70]

1 minute ago, jjs217 said:

Monetary compensation?  Much Ado About Nothing.  Just don't sail on SS again and be done with it.

With all due respect, I think you’re missing the point. Companies rely on people with that attitude and will just carry on behaving badly. They need the occasional reminder that they are subject to keeping heir side of the bargain.

[jjs217]

 

2 minutes ago, DavyWavey70 said:

With all due respect, I think you’re missing the point. Companies rely on people with that attitude and will just carry on behaving badly. They need the occasional reminder that they are subject to keeping heir side of the bargain.

I agree, but how far do you go?  Doesn't there come a point where you pick your battles?  I certainly wouldn't die on the hill that involves a mid-range bottle of champagne.  Geez.  As a travel agent, she could easily tell all of her clients not to book with SS.  

[tnm6217]

1 hour ago, highplanesdrifters said:

Have you considered a go fund me page? If so, count me in.

@highplanesdrifters Having the moral support is the real value!

 

16 minutes ago, jjs217 said:

I agree, but how far do you go?  Doesn't there come a point where you pick your battles?  I certainly wouldn't die on the hill that involves a mid-range bottle of champagne.

@jjs217 The way I was treated didn't sit well with me when the T&Cs for the VS program were clear. I probably spent 30-45 minutes drafting the notice of disagreement under the arbitration clause and mailing it off. There are so many instances where the cruise lines can do whatever they want, and the guest has no recourse. This isn't one of those and pursuing it further doesn't feel like a battle to me. It might just be a bottle of Champagne, but using the same logic, SS could apply the same principle to any of the VS benefits and tell those with VS status through Status Match that the stated benefits are in fact exempted, even though such exemption isn't listed in the T&Cs...

[jjs217]

Okay.  I'm a lot older than you (looking at your picture), and I know there are a lot worse issues you will face in your life than this.  But, if this is so important to you, good luck.  No more judgment from me.

[Tothesunset]

tnm6217, 

 

Good for you for taking a stand. Companies that overpromise and under-deliver are, sadly, more the norm than the exception. You are fortunate to have the skills to pursue this. 

 

If only all companies were held to account then we might all get better service. 

 

And on a point of principle it matters not what the value of the dispute is in monetary terms. 

 

Just while we are on the subject, how do fast food outlets get away with photographs of the perfect burger when what they deliver often bears only a passing similarity to the advertised item? 

[jjs217]

22 hours ago, Tothesunset said:

tnm6217, 

 

Good for you for taking a stand. Companies that overpromise and under-deliver are, sadly, more the norm than the exception. You are fortunate to have the skills to pursue this. 

 

If only all companies were held to account then we might all get better service. 

 

And on a point of principle it matters not what the value of the dispute is in monetary terms. 

 

Just while we are on the subject, how do fast food outlets get away with photographs of the perfect burger when what they deliver often bears only a passing similarity to the advertised item? 

Please don't get me wrong.  I'm all for contracts and expect for companies to adhere to the terms, just as they expect me to also adhere to the terms.  However, the OP lost me when she said she contacted Corporate when a Celebrity Cruise she was on didn't have oatmeal raisin cookies.  I just think that reveals a lot.  

[Will Work for Tiramisu]

Way back in early 80's, I bought a for-then serious down coat for XC skiing & winter camping, made by The North Face, which was then a small, Berkeley, Cal based outfit making serious mountaineering type goods.  Coat got a lot of use, and finally zipper failed.  I had heard from friends at REI that you could send to them and they would repair, for a fee.  I had by this time got lots of use, NO issues that they owed me anything.  So, sent it off with check for the zipper repair.  A few weeks later, it is shipped back.  New, better zipper. My check returned, and a note saying "The zipper shouldn't have failed.  We noted the cuffs had frayed, so we replaced both sleeves, and refilled everything with more down."  I was gobsmacked.  I went on to buy many more of their products, including as gifts for all my family, and told everyone I knew about this service ethic.  That little transaction also showed me what serious customer service looks like, and informed my interactions with my customers for all my business career.  That's how it is done!

[tfred]

1 hour ago, Will Work for Tiramisu said:

Way back in early 80's, I bought a for-then serious down coat for XC skiing & winter camping, made by The North Face, which was then a small, Berkeley, Cal based outfit making serious mountaineering type goods.  Coat got a lot of use, and finally zipper failed.  I had heard from friends at REI that you could send to them and they would repair, for a fee.  I had by this time got lots of use, NO issues that they owed me anything.  So, sent it off with check for the zipper repair.  A few weeks later, it is shipped back.  New, better zipper. My check returned, and a note saying "The zipper shouldn't have failed.  We noted the cuffs had frayed, so we replaced both sleeves, and refilled everything with more down."  I was gobsmacked.  I went on to buy many more of their products, including as gifts for all my family, and told everyone I knew about this service ethic.  That little transaction also showed me what serious customer service looks like, and informed my interactions with my customers for all my business career.  That's how it is done!

LL Bean used to VERY generous with returns for any reason for just about forever.

 

That's over now 

 

People just abused the system and now it is a year - still reasonable 

[tfred]

On 7/1/2024 at 8:11 AM, UKCruiseJeff said:

Thanks.  I thought it might be that.  I think simply you are a nice more rounded person than me.  I tend not to forgive unless I’m asked to as I believe forgiveness is patronising when imposed on those that don’t seek it or want it.  

 

In 1976 I took a tour company in the UK to the high court for breach of contract with respect to a very high cost 4 week rental property on the best beach in Barbados and it was a 5 day hearing which we won.  To that date it was the highest holiday claim to ever be bought in the UK and had close media interest.   It was then subsequently used as an important precedent for future cases because apart from the refund we achieved I was personally awarded a significant amount for the work I did to make my families holiday better by undertaking chores we’d paid for and therefore to compensate for the defendants refund reduction - if you get my drift.  In summary the judge said the unforgettable comment “When the defendants evidence i supports the evidence of the claimant I find wholly in favour of the defendant.  When it contradicts the evidence given by the claimant I find wholly in favour of the claimant”  I will never forget it.  It validated my decision to sue when all I really wanted originally was a genuine apology and small refund in goodwill.  I was rebuffed and so I pushed on.  I had already had enquiry agents investigate him to ensure that money was available if I won and I knew about the value of the company cars etc and other stuff.  The court gave him seven days to pay and on the eight I sent in bailiffs to seize the cars and other stuff and within an hour he transferred the cash to our accounts with all court costs in full.

 

I named my current house after the property in Barbados because I used the award as a deposit for it.  I then sent the MD of the travel company a christmas card with  a picture of the  house and house  sign and thanked him for the contribution.   Life doesn’t get much sweeter.

 

I hope things go well.  

 

Jeff

nice story, but I dont think a better bottle of champagne is in this same league 

[UKCruiseJeff]

57 minutes ago, tfred said:

nice story, but I dont think a better bottle of champagne is in this same league 

 

I never suggested it was did I? 

 

I was simply validating and amplifying that the point the OP made that sometimes we take what was an originally small complaint on simply because a prompt apology and an inexpensive solution was refused and could have saved far high consequences.  

 

I apologise for not making that point sufficiently  clear. 

 

Jeff

 

Edited yesterday at 05:11 PM by UKCruiseJeff

[tnm6217]

3 hours ago, jjs217 said:

However, the OP lost me when she said she contacted Corporate when a Celebrity Cruise she was on didn't have oatmeal raisin cookies.  I just think that reveals a lot.  

I didn’t contact Corporate. I simply left a note in the mid-cruise survey for Corporate because the absence of the oatmeal raisin cookies occurred on three different ships when the year prior I had found them consistently. I assumed it may have been a Corporate decision to cut raisins from provisioning fleet-wide and focus on less expensive cookies like sugar, peanut butter, and chocolate chip.
 

I haven’t contacted Corporate or taken any action with any of the five cruise lines I’ve sailed on…until now. I understand (at least to a certain extent) what goes into giving guests a great vacation at sea and I understand when external factors complicate things. This wasn’t that situation—SS chose not to honor this benefit, despite having the resources onboard to do so. 

[tfred]

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity  - Hanlon's razor

 

My guess on all of this

 

RC, X and SSea all have their own database systems which don't easily communicate with each other. Probably needs a team of consultants to "harmonize" the data. That takes time and some fiddling. "I think we are good" was said more than once. I know it isn't the pax fault but it is what it is 

 

That data is not easily communicated to existing reservations to the ships so many pax didn't have their profile updated resulting in the usual champagne 

 

Along the way, SSea corporate has taken a look at "comped" grievances of both real and imagined slights on board.  Those $50/100/250 comps really add up and affect profitability. Every comp has a cost center associated with it and it isn't just "well, they just have it onboard, so what does it matter?" 

 

SSea (and other lines) are going to become more like resort hotels where none of this activity would be allowed. SSea isnt going to ban anyone, they just assume you won't come back and they are OK with that. Businesses can "fire" customers as well. 

[highplanesdrifters]

20 hours ago, tnm6217 said:

I didn’t contact Corporate. I simply left a note in the mid-cruise survey for Corporate because the absence of the oatmeal raisin cookies occurred on three different ships when the year prior I had found them consistently. I assumed it may have been a Corporate decision to cut raisins from provisioning fleet-wide and focus on less expensive cookies like sugar, peanut butter, and chocolate chip.
 

I haven’t contacted Corporate or taken any action with any of the five cruise lines I’ve sailed on…until now. I understand (at least to a certain extent) what goes into giving guests a great vacation at sea and I understand when external factors complicate things. This wasn’t that situation—SS chose not to honor this benefit, despite having the resources onboard to do so. 

 

Keep up the fight. 

 

I thought of you when batteling with the Satellite TV company yesterday. They wanted to charge me to fix it, and also added an extra 50 cents a month to the bill. Enough! I battled until I took up enough time to cost them more in employee wages than they would have made on an annualized 50 cents a month for years. 

 

I do however know they will Jack up my rates again to make up for it. 😃

[RetiredandTravel]

13 minutes ago, highplanesdrifters said:

 

Keep up the fight. 

 

I thought of you when batteling with the Satellite TV company yesterday. They wanted to charge me to fix it, and also added an extra 50 cents a month to the bill. Enough! I battled until I took up enough time to cost them more in employee wages than they would have made on an annualized 50 cents a month for years. 

 

I do however know they will Jack up my rates again to make up for it. 😃

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLO5IZcNOXg

 

😁