Business class, No More?

[kirtihk]

On 7/9/2024 at 8:52 AM, papaflamingo said:

At least since 2018 Regent "base" fare was NOT inclusive of business air.  It was shown in the price posted for the cruise, but at the bottom of the web page it showed the "air credit" if you chose to book your own air.  You could (and can) get a "hotel credit" if your fare included a hotel night, and a "pre/post excursion credit" if your fare included "free" pre/post cruise excursion and you chose not to take it.  Then a year or so ago they broke out the cost of the cruise showing side by side on the web the cost with or without air.   

It was all marketing.  Regent marketed it as "including business class air" but, in fact, it was always an optional add on.  

Really nothing has changed other than they've included an "economy air" option and added the $500 Blacklane credit.   The cost of air, be it business or economy, will directly reflect the cost of air to Regent.  They'll charge whatever it costs THEM to book the flight.  If they have contract rates with an airlines, it'll be generally cheaper than booking on your own, just like in the past.  If they don't have contract rates, it'll cost what it costs....just like in the past. 

And then why are air prices increased overnight at exactly the same time when they implemented the latest change?  Also, when booked my first Regent cruise a few years ago, I asked at the time of booking whether I can remove my “free” post-cruise land package with a price reduced by that at package amount displayed at the bottom of its description ($1,999 pp in my case), and the answer was “No.  You either take it or not, but the total price remains the same.”

[kirtihk]

On 7/9/2024 at 5:22 PM, CJANDH said:

Silverseas has much the same pricing structure with equally high BC air upcharges. I don't think you will find much better deals with them comparing the full cost of same category suites including all the extras. In my opinion, Viking doesn't offer comparable luxury. But it does require final payment a year or more out and if you use their air department you get BC at full market prices.

 

The cost of luxury cruising is increasing across all the lines. We need to accept this higher cost, cut back on our perceived "needs" like lie-flat seats and luxury pre-cruise hotels, or join the rest of the travelling public on less luxurious vacations. A real first world problem!!

If the majority “joins the rest…”, who will Regent be left with?  Meaning, would they travel with 80% unsold cabins?

Edited July 10 by kirtihk

[kirtihk]

23 hours ago, papaflamingo said:

That isn't exactly what you said.  You said "They used to be inclusive of business air (in North America), now they're not."  But nothing at all has changed.  Regent offers air at the cost to Regent from the air lines. That's as it's always been.  They would agree on a contract rate, as I'm sure they try to do today, and that is the rate they charge you.  But Business Class is a premium product and the Airline's money maker.  They are flying full.  There is no reason for an airline to discount the rate.  So Regent can't get it. They publish whatever the rate they can secure for you.  If you can buy Business Class air cheaper, then do it, just like in the past.

We booked a cruise leaving out of Papeete.  The air credit was round trip was $9800 per person.  Today it's $10,100 per person, or $300 per person higher.  BUT, it now includes $250 pp Blacklane credit.  So the air cost only went up $50 pp.  Nothing has changed. 

Hmmm…. For our cruise the air went up by $2,010 pp.

[Pcardad]

7 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

If the majority “joins the rest…”, who will Regent be left with?  Meaning, would they travel with 80% unsold cabins?

Regent currently running just over 100% occupancy...

[kirtihk]

4 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

Regent currently running just over 100% occupancy...

No doubt (for some itineraries).  My point was pure logic based on (as I wrote) “if” the majority switch to other less luxury cruise lines.  In that case no way Regent would run over 100% occupancy.  And “currently” occurred obviously for booking prior to July 1.

Edited July 10 by kirtihk

[kirtihk]

The bottom line based on all comments, about 80-90% of respondents are at least annoyed if not frustrated and irritated by these changes, and that coincides with what I predicted people would think about this matter when I looked at my cruise’s pricing and structure on July 4.

[snorklelover]

Currently over 100%!! Wondering about going forward for cruises booked after the July 1 change?  It might not look so rosy for some of us.

 

 

 

[Pcardad]

Occupancy based on 2 per suite...most cruise lines are over 100% Boom times for cruising...the cruise fares are fairmy stable...it is the air that is killing us.

[kirtihk]

30 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

Occupancy based on 2 per suite...most cruise lines are over 100% Boom times for cruising...the cruise fares are fairmy stable...it is the air that is killing us.

It is plus air.  Celebrity Aqua, for example, doubled (or more) within last 1.5 years or so.

[ChucktownSteve]

1 hour ago, Pcardad said:

Regent currently running just over 100% occupancy...

And that's why perhaps some of the cruise pricing has increased because of the less available suites? 

 

Pcardad, However I don't believe Regent uses dynamic pricing as cabins sell (as hotels and other cruise lines like celebrity do) but adjust their pricing every few months. That's what it appeared to me. Is that correct?

 

You should hear people complaining on the Silversea board. The pricing increases by RCG have risen substantially.  Now that the loyalty amongst Royal Caribbean, Celebrity and Silversea lines are matching, there will be fewer SS suites available since the other loyalists will move up to SS.  Isn't that what NCL is considering with Oceania and Regent?  Thus there will still be more booked suites on Regent and higher pricing.

 

It's a huge pipeline feeding the luxury brands with fewer ships/suites overall.  Probably thankx to the stock market returns as Pcardad indicated earlier. You won't be finding deals on the other luxury lines, I expect .as long as others are willing to pay the prices; even if some of you don't want to.

 

To me the new Regent pricing model is more transparent so we actually see how much the airlines are responsible for a substantial part of the fare that Regent has recently been blamed for. If you want to find a lower air cost directly, go for it.  If you like the total package booked through Regent, you  can still do that.  There's more flexibility for the cruiser.

Edited July 11 by ChucktownSteve

[kirtihk]

1 hour ago, ChucktownSteve said:

And that's why perhaps some of the cruise pricing has increased because of the less available suites? 

 

Pcardad, However I don't believe Regent uses dynamic pricing as cabins sell (as hotels and other cruise lines like celebrity do) but adjust their pricing every few months. That's what it appeared to me. Is that correct?

 

You should hear people complaining on the Silversea board. The pricing increases by RCG have risen substantially.  Now that the loyalty amongst Royal Caribbean, Celebrity and Silversea lines are matching, there will be fewer SS suites available since the other loyalists will move up to SS.  Isn't that what NCL is considering with Oceania and Regent?  Thus there will still be more booked suites on Regent and higher pricing.

 

It's a huge pipeline feeding the luxury brands with fewer ships/suites overall.  Probably thankx to the stock market returns as Pcardad indicated earlier. You won't be finding deals on the other luxury lines, I expect .as long as others are willing to pay the prices; even if some of you don't want to.

 

To me the new Regent pricing model is more transparent so we actually see how much the airlines are responsible for a substantial part of the fare that Regent has recently been blamed for. If you want to find a lower air cost directly, go for it.  If you like the total package booked through Regent, you  can still do that.  There's more flexibility for the cruiser.

No, there is no more flexibility except they added economy option.  The air price was always (as someone wrote on this thread) present at the bottom of pricing as an option to reduce the fare by it if booking on your own.  Also, Regent does not adjust their pricing every few month (technically, does not increase it); they gradually decrease every few months their initial bonus discount (as they state as promotion) of off the brochure fare.  It’s just a little different game.  It’s similar to Ponant game except Ponant displays it in % saving vs $$ amount on Regent and it reduces % not every few months but rather dynamically based on total sold cabins for all categories (Ponant always starts with 30% discount, and goes down by 5% until reaching 0% discount when only few cabins left).

[ChucktownSteve]

17 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

No, there is no more flexibility except they added economy option.  The air price was always (as someone wrote on this thread) present at the bottom of pricing as an option to reduce the fare by it if booking on your own.  Also, Regent does not adjust their pricing every few month (technically, does not increase it); they gradually decrease every few months their initial bonus discount (as they state as promotion) of off the brochure fare.  It’s just a little different game.  It’s similar to Ponant game except Ponant displays it in % saving vs $$ amount on Regent and it reduces % not every few months but rather dynamically based on total sold cabins for all categories (Ponant always starts with 30% discount, and goes down by 5% until reaching 0% discount when only few cabins left).

Can anyone show me where one person ever paid the brochure rate?  I ignore that because it's only a mark it up to mark it down.  AKA Marketing HYPE.  Discounts are meaningless. The real measure to me is what value do you receive for the PP/PN rate...bottom line. Everything else is smoke and mirrors which I don't buy into after working over 40 years in marketing and media.

[kirtihk]

15 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

Can anyone show me where one person ever paid the brochure rate?  I ignore that because it's only a mark it up to mark it down.  AKA Marketing HYPE.  Discounts are meaningless. The real measure to me is what value do you receive for the PP/PN rate...bottom line. Everything else is smoke and mirrors which I don't buy into after working over 40 years in marketing and media.

I simply described the process, not trying to defend anything or anyone.  You asked the question regarding whether Regent increase price periodically, and I replied how they do that.  And in my Ponant example, yes, upon reaching 0% discount, if you book a that point, you pay a full price however it is called (brochure price or whatever), and I saw a bunch their cruise being sold with 0% discount especially on popular Antarctica cruises.

Edited July 11 by kirtihk

[1982CruzStart]

So i decided to just take a look at our 2025 cruise and price it now.  We booked this cruise in Feb 2024 including BC airfare and in Concierge. The booking for 2 came to a total of 34438 CAD. I don't know what the air credit would have been as i always book with air included. 

 

When i went in today to do a booking for the exact same cruise in concierge and added BC airfare the cruise price came to 35488 plus BC airfare to/from YVR quoted at 22060 for a total cruise cost of 57548, all CAD. 

 

Before going through the booking process the base fare for the cruise is 36498, the difference from the above 35488 i assume is the discount for being returning guests. The BC airfare is priced at 18240 for YYZ to embarkation port and back so the additional cost to go to/from YVR is 3820.  They appear to use YYZ instead of New York City for Canadian airfare pricing. 

 

So the cruise only is more than the cruise with BC airfare so a pretty big price increase. 

 

It is a cruise with wide open availability so the price increase doesn't look like a result of high demand.  By the way this cruise is only 10 days. 

 

As i said before, baring a miracle, this cruise will likely be our last with Regent. 

[CJANDH]

17 hours ago, kirtihk said:

The air price was always (as someone wrote on this thread) present at the bottom of pricing as an option to reduce the fare by it if booking on your own

Yes. But the total price was the same wherever you lived. Now the total price varies based on your location.

[Pcardad]

11 minutes ago, CJANDH said:

Yes. But the total price was the same wherever you lived. Now the total price varies based on your location.

Think about that for a minute. If it was the same price from everywhere, that means people near major hubs (cheaper flights) were paying more than their fair share to subsidize those further from major hubs (more expensive flights). Another reason why Regent might want to get away from one-price bundled airfare in this crazy market.

[Tsunami74]

19 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

Think about that for a minute. If it was the same price from everywhere, that means people near major hubs (cheaper flights) were paying more than their fair share to subsidize those further from major hubs (more expensive flights). Another reason why Regent might want to get away from one-price bundled airfare in this crazy market.

 

32 minutes ago, CJANDH said:

Yes. But the total price was the same wherever you lived. Now the total price varies based on your location.

Not exactly true because we always paid a surcharge flying from a non gateway city.  It wasn't much - around $250 and no where near what our upcharge would be now.

[snorkle lover]

20 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

Think about that for a minute. If it was the same price from everywhere, that means people near major hubs (cheaper flights) were paying more than their fair share to subsidize those further from major hubs (more expensive flights). Another reason why Regent might want to get away from one-price bundled airfare in this crazy market.

So will all BC be based out of NY? What if you live near a major hub ( such as Atlanta)?

[kirtihk]

1 hour ago, CJANDH said:

Yes. But the total price was the same wherever you lived. Now the total price varies based on your location.

For my location (Buffalo) it was extra $125 pp each way).

[CJANDH]

29 minutes ago, snorkle lover said:

So will all BC be based out of NY? What if you live near a major hub ( such as Atlanta)?

The price of BC shown on the website will be based on fares out of JFK. The price you will pay will be based on Regent's estimate of the cost to them of the flight from your departure airport. I haven't (yet) run the numbers for a sample cruise with flights departing from various cities. My guess is that major hubs will be less than other cities. It will be interesting to see. I will report back when I have done a few dummy runs.

[CJANDH]

47 minutes ago, Tsunami74 said:

 

Not exactly true because we always paid a surcharge flying from a non gateway city.  It wasn't much - around $250 and no where near what our upcharge would be now.

Sorry. You are right. There was a surcharge if you opted to fly from a non-gateway airport. My comment was based on flying from one of their gateway airports. Now there is an upcharge from the published (JFK) prices even from previous gateways.

[papaflamingo]

On 7/10/2024 at 7:43 AM, forgap said:

I was referencing the fact that air costs are based on travel for NYC (in small print, I might add) and the transfer via Blackline (or credit) is not obvious.  So, it’s not as simple as just looking at the costs on the cruise landing page.  Plus, on every booking we’ve made there are deductions as to when you booked, 2 for 1, etc., etc.   Not to mention additional costs to talk with Regent concerning air routes, deviation fees,  and air up-charges for reasonable routes.  It seems like a game of smoke and mirrors which, I guess, is marketing t its best.  

I actually don't see "smoke and mirrors." They are quite clear on all those costs.  This is clearly posted on their website when you look at a cruise: 

"CHOOSE FROM TWO ALL-INCLUSIVE FARE OPTIONS

We believe that flexibility is the ultimate luxury, which is why we are pleased to offer several fare options. Choose an All-Inclusive Cruise Fare and enjoy the included luxuries of your voyage and freedom of arranging your air travel independently. Or elevate your fare package to Ultimate All-Inclusive*, which provides flights in your preferred air class where available, coach transfers between airport and ship, and a new private executive chauffeur service with Blacklane."  

The "2 for 1" has been a marketing ploy for years... nothing new there.

And the cost of deviation is nothing new either.  In fact it's completely explained on the FAQ section on the website including this statement:

"To speak directly to our Air Concierges a $75 non-refundable Custom Air call service fee will be applied to reservations which, if the Custom Air flight option presented is accepted within three days, will become part of the existing $175 per person air customization fee."

So where's the "smoke and mirrors?" In fact it's even MORE transparent as the cost of air plus Blacklane, etc. is clearly delineated.  Not sure how much easier and clearer the costs can be. 

Edited July 11 by papaflamingo

[CJANDH]

INTERESTING. Things seem to be changing as we post. I have just done a gateway comparison for a 7 night cruise on Splendor in a G1 Veranda from Barcelona to Lisbon leaving June 7, 2025.

 

The webpage quote for cruise only is $6,299 with +$1,770 for econ and +$6,580 pp for BC

 

I checked switching out ATL, DFW, SFO and SAV. The same BC upcharge for each.

 

Interesting that the BC upcharge is high, but now consistent across the country. This is not what I found a few days ago. If it holds up on other cruises, then Regent is basically going back to their old system of equal pricing across the gateways, but just at a higher price.

 

Any thoughts?

[DaveFr]

2 hours ago, CJANDH said:

INTERESTING. Things seem to be changing as we post. I have just done a gateway comparison for a 7 night cruise on Splendor in a G1 Veranda from Barcelona to Lisbon leaving June 7, 2025.

 

The webpage quote for cruise only is $6,299 with +$1,770 for econ and +$6,580 pp for BC

 

I checked switching out ATL, DFW, SFO and SAV. The same BC upcharge for each.

 

Interesting that the BC upcharge is high, but now consistent across the country. This is not what I found a few days ago. If it holds up on other cruises, then Regent is basically going back to their old system of equal pricing across the gateways, but just at a higher price.

 

Any thoughts?

Unfortunately you can’t generalize. I just checked the Regent air prices for a January 17, 2025 Explorer cruise from Sydney to Singapore. For that cruise, the BC up charge was about $850 more per person from Los Angeles instead of New York.
 

Dave

[mrlevin]

I just priced onboard Splendor 19 September 25 NYC-Montreal-Boston-Montreal 33 nights Cat G2 no air.  Ship availability seems to be pretty open.  Fare after discounts is $70,694.  Can’t blame air for this one.  This is revenue department run amok. We are just 99 nights away from Diamond and this morning I am wondering if we will ever get there.