Dressed casual on formal nights

[ratflinger]

I ones watched a "gentleman" come in to the Commodore club after six wearing a white bathrobe ordering a drink and he got away with it.

[exlondoner]

10 hours ago, majortom10 said:

Spoke to Restaurant Manager tonight last Formal night of the cruise and is the Roaring Twenties. We have known him a few years from QM2 and he asked if we were fine and said yes are you OK. He clearly wasn't he said " what can you do when somebody comes to MDR on Formal night dressed in a T shirt and scruffy denim jeans". He was told he couldn't come in dressed like that and he flatly refused to move or get changed. So to avoid issue he was let in but Restaurant Manager wasn't happy but said what else could he do.

My sympathies to the Restaurant Manager, and I can see he would want to avoid a disruptive scene. But isn’t there a point at which he would need to call security?

[exlondoner]

10 hours ago, ShipboardSteve said:

It is clear that other lines are already reaping the benefit of once pure Cunarders now booking with lines where dress codes are adhered to, where there is happiness among both crew and passengers, and where more traditional cruise passengers are happy to be party to a set of codes that others around  them value the same way.  This is clearly now a loss to Cunard.  Yes, there are newcomers to Cunard - but whether they book repeatedly and remain loyal Cunard passengers will be interesting to see over time. As has been mentioned there are people across all ages who value being able to dress up nicely for the evening - and there are those who want to not do so whatever holiday they are on.  However some of the stories posted  in this forum as well as on the many groups on other social media are a very big negative for the large number of people who do like tradition (of all demographics).  Whether Cunard will come to see that their change in policy will be a drag on their revenue, or not, will be in the financial returns for the future years.  Cost cutting eventually leads to a product that is so undesirable that the resulting  loss of customers can sink a company.

In what way is this clear?

Which are the lines where there are more formal dress codes?

How have I missed all these unhappy crew and passengers?

 

I am unclear of the basis for many of you assertions.

[exlondoner]

9 hours ago, WantedOnVoyage said:

Especially when they are wearing scruffy jeans and a T shirt.  

 

You can accuse me of being elitist all you want, but you know what, I liked steamship travel (back when it was called that, too) when it was considered special and had a certain cachet about it.  Now I am frankly ashamed to even tell people we are going on a cruise.  

 

Cruising is now for everyone. I started travelling by ship as a high school student and even at min student fare on FRANCE and QE2, we got scrubbed up for dinner. It was what made an ocean liner special. Now, a particular sort makes a statement about being an uncouth slob and yes, Cunard and other lines, are just as happy to take his or her money and look the other way.  And the local residents of Santorini are being told to stay indoors when the cruise ships arrive with 10,000 "cruisers". 

 

Times as we keep being told here are "changing". Oh boy... and how.  

 

 

Yes, so many things have got worse: all those balcony cabins, en suites for all, not having to share cabins with strangers, being able to choose when you dine, air conditioning, covered lifeboats…How I’d love to go back to the fifties.

[exlondoner]

37 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Yes, so many things have got worse: all those balcony cabins, en suites for all, not having to share cabins with strangers, being able to choose when you dine, air conditioning, covered lifeboats…How I’d love to go back to the fifties.

Oh, I’m sorry, I forgot those dangerous Bibby corridors, which have disappeared. I loved QE2 when I went on her, but I’m not sure I would now.

Edited July 26 by exlondoner

[Victoria2]

3 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Oh, I’m sorry I forgot those dangerous Bibby corridors, which have disappeared. I loved QE2 when I went on her, but I’m not sure I would now.

My parents loved QE2. We never got the opportunity to travel with her.

 

I'm darned sure I wouldn’t want to cruise with her now.

[exlondoner]

Just now, Victoria2 said:

My parents loved QE2. We never got the opportunity to travel with her.

 

I'm darned sure I wouldn’t want to cruise with her now.

I might in a Q1 or Q2, but certainly not otherwise. One thing where she did excel, and which would be so easy to emulate, if they paid attention, is in ample storage space, even in the tiny single inside cabins. And indeed provision of singles in all grades was another. But even so…

[Host Hattie]

You can certainly tell us which cruise line has retained a dress code and enforces it.

[ShipboardSteve]

2 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

You can certainly tell us which cruise line has retained a dress code and enforces it.

 

OK - I will give you an example - which may seem surprising to some - I was recently on a P&O voyage where in the Crow's Nest one evening a man wearing shorts came in with his youngish son to join some friends for a chat and drink. He was politely told that wearing shorts (in the P&O equivalent of the Commodore Club) was not permitted, and asked him change to the required type of trouser if he wished to stay. So the two left to get appropriately dressed. Si it does happen but not seen on Cunard ships in recent time. So I am not reporting second hand stories, which could be construed as non-facts.  

[King Amo]

Another great dress code/standards have plummeted thread. 

 

We even got a 'cruising is now for everyone' as a complaint, as well as the classic unsubstantiated claims of people leaving in droves. Throw in a bit of 'Cunard are the only company left who maintains a dress code, so why can't people who don't like it book elsewhere?' juxtaposed with 'these passengers leaving in droves are going to lines with more formal dress codes'.  

 

I'm going to create a bingo card one of these days...😵

[exlondoner]

1 minute ago, ShipboardSteve said:

 

OK - I will give you an example - which may seem surprising to some - I was recently on a P&O voyage where in the Crow's Nest one evening a man wearing shorts came in with his youngish son to join some friends for a chat and drink. He was politely told that wearing shorts (in the P&O equivalent of the Commodore Club) was not permitted, and asked him change to the required type of trouser if he wished to stay. So the two left to get appropriately dressed. Si it does happen but not seen on Cunard ships in recent time. So I am not reporting second hand stories, which could be construed as non-facts.  

I have read posts during the last week describing something similar on Cunard. It seems to be the inconsistency that irks people. 8,000+ posts in 17 years doesn’t seem all that prolific, and it may imply a little knowledge, and a little perspective. 

[Megabear2]

6 minutes ago, ShipboardSteve said:

He was politely told that wearing shorts (in the P&O equivalent of the Commodore Club) was not permitted, and asked him change to the required type of trouser if he wished to stay. So the two left to get appropriately dressed. Si it does happen but not seen on Cunard ships in recent time

I normally avoid like the plague dress code discussions but this one really needs a reply.  You cannot seriously be suggesting that P&O ensure passengers adhere to their dress code more than Cunard? I sail both regularly, Diamond on Cunard and Caribbean on P&O.  You are comparing chalk with cheese in the dress code levels required before you even start.  I love both lines but really it is laughable to suggest P&O make passengers adhere to their dress code (which is a lower requirement anyhow) more than Cunard.  Even a glance at the P&O forum will tell you the regular P&O passengers are tearing their hair out at the dismal attempts to keep some sort of dress code on their ships. It's so much easier to adhere to what leans towards a casual dress code in the first instance as P&O do and they also offer many more venues where non formal is accepted, including the theatre. 

 

I can only assume as a devotee of both lines you are not being serious and having a laugh.

[exlondoner]

Incidentally, there is a fairly negative review, saying QA is like P&O, and a man in front of me in a queue for the Purser’s told me very loudly QA was like a P&O ship, which I don’t think he meant as compliment, though I’m not sure what he did mean as I have never been on P&O. So I’m not sure where that leaves us.

[Megabear2]

1 minute ago, exlondoner said:

Incidentally, there is a fairly negative review, saying QA is like P&O, and a man in front of me in a queue for the Purser’s told me very loudly QA was like a P&O ship, which I don’t think he meant as compliment, though I’m not sure what he did mean as I have never been on P&O. So I’m not sure where that leaves us.

There's nothing wrong with P&O but unfortunately it has often been used as a joke by cruisers on other lines and somewhat looked down on and derided as a result.  

 

I recall that review and it was unnecessarily rude and verging on offensive to P&O passengers.  I see regular posters names on both forums who clearly do sail with both lines, but many are reluctant to admit it due to the myth of perceived superiority on other lines to P&O. 

 

P&O travellers on the other hand seem nervous to admit they are trying Cunard as many over there think that Cunard is full of posh and snobby folk.  All unnecessary as both lines serve a purpose to allow folk to enjoy a sea cruise, in fact they are two lines with the same common origins just catering to different market requirements, ie one very much family focused on the bulk of its fleet, the other trying to maintain the experience of the past.

 

It is indeed a different experience but there's nothing wrong with that whichever line you sail on.  I'm happy to admit to liking both products and will happily say so.

[Winifred 22]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

There's nothing wrong with P&O but unfortunately it has often been used as a joke by cruisers on other lines and somewhat looked down on and derided as a result.  

 

I recall that review and it was unnecessarily rude and verging on offensive to P&O passengers.  I see regular posters names on both forums who clearly do sail with both lines, but many are reluctant to admit it due to the myth of perceived superiority on other lines to P&O. 

 

P&O travellers on the other hand seem nervous to admit they are trying Cunard as many over there think that Cunard is full of posh and snobby folk.  All unnecessary as both lines serve a purpose to allow folk to enjoy a sea cruise, in fact they are two lines with the same common origins just catering to different market requirements, ie one very much family focused on the bulk of its fleet, the other trying to maintain the experience of the past.

 

It is indeed a different experience but there's nothing wrong with that whichever line you sail on.  I'm happy to admit to liking both products and will happily say so.

Me too. 

[WantedOnVoyage]

Talk about how times and cruising have changed.... I remember the P&O of CANBERRA days when the Pacific Restaurant, with Jamie the maitre d', knocked Cunard into a cocked hat when it came to food, service and ambience. Cocktails in the Century Bar and down that magic spiral staircase to the restaurant. That was special. 

 

Those who think it's swell everyone goes cruising can look at what's happened to P&O since.. we last sailed with them in VICTORIA in 2001 and never went back.  It was already changing. I wouldn't recognise P&O now and do not care to find out.

 

We vote with our feet... P&O, then Oceania for years, a bit of Cunard and post 2016, all Cunard. But we also now what we like and value and when the balance tips.  With Cunard, at least in the Grills, not there yet. 

[ShipboardSteve]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

I can only assume as a devotee of both lines you are not being serious and having a laugh.

 

Actually no - having been on both P&O and Cunard in the past few months, my experience was that on Formal evenings on P&O, the adherence to dress code and the kind of suits and ties for men, and dresses for ladies, during the evening. was not too much different to Gala 'evenings' on Queen Anne. Many might think that would not be the case.  But certainly Cunard was no more formal or extravagant than P&O on those voyages I have been on. The younger (30s and 40s) passengers on P&O seemed to revel in being nicely dressed for those evenings and were looking delighted at meals in the main dining room, including those with young kids, who also looked lovely in their formal wear.

[Pushpit]

2 hours ago, ShipboardSteve said:

 

 So the two left to get appropriately dressed. Si it does happen but not seen on Cunard ships in recent time. So I am not reporting second hand stories, which could be construed as non-facts.  

I have seen people approached in Commodore Club about their dress standard in the last 6 months. Once on QM2 - which was a bit harsh since it was an Optional Gala night given a percentage of passengers were disembarking. And once in QV, that was a simple misunderstanding in that the passenger hadn't realised that it had tripped past 18:00 hrs a few minutes previously. In both cases the Cunard staff were very quiet and discreet about it, but the message was clear.

[RalphWiggum]

16 hours ago, majortom10 said:

Spoke to Restaurant Manager tonight last Formal night of the cruise and is the Roaring Twenties. We have known him a few years from QM2 and he asked if we were fine and said yes are you OK. He clearly wasn't he said " what can you do when somebody comes to MDR on Formal night dressed in a T shirt and scruffy denim jeans". He was told he couldn't come in dressed like that and he flatly refused to move or get changed. So to avoid issue he was let in but Restaurant Manager wasn't happy but said what else could he do.

I am onboard and probably noticed the guy at dinner last night.  He was seated alone in a two-top on deck three, the last table before the ramp up to the service area.  So he was clearly tucked away and pretty much out of sight.  We noticed him however, but actually weren’t bothered by his presence and thought there was a valid reason why he was discretely let in (like a luggage or laundry mishap).
 

That said, I don't think refusing to change is a valid reason.  If I were the restaurant manager I would have simply refused to seat the man or if he just sat down at a table anyway, refused to serve him.  If he chose to cause a scene, then I’d call security.  
 

Edited July 26 by RalphWiggum

[ovccruiser]

20 hours ago, WantedOnVoyage said:

 

So I guess if you chose not to wear a shirt or shoes indoors on a cruise ship or airplane or restaurant, it's all  YOU... your choice, too.  You could, I suppose, say it's your choice not to go through a scanner to embark. Or attend a boat drill.  

 

It is not a choice when a venue has a stated dress code and you purchase access to said venue.  Again, no one is forced to go on Cunard or any cruise line but by doing so, it is about joining what is, by definition, a community.  It's not all about YOU. "MY" vacation is staying at home... when you chose to share it with others, others matter.  

That sounds a bit like following like sheep, I have never stated that it is ok for me to go into certain areas on the ship on formal nights as it is also not allowed to attend the grills dining rooms. Formal nights I have dined in the Red Lion as well as the Lido not on the same night of course. If I choose not to dress formally that is my choice, it is then also the choice of Cunard not to allow me into certain areas on those formal nights with which I am fine.

 

I think your first paragraph is just a little over the top as on a formal night I would alway have my dickie bow on😂

[ovccruiser]

20 hours ago, vsbc said:

Having made your choice to not dress formally did you still expect to have full access to all parts of the ship?

As I see it, it is not so much what someone is wearing, but whether or not a person dressed casually should reasonably expect to be able to go into all of the public areas on the ship.

 

A definite no and at no time did I ever hint that

[no1talks]

16 hours ago, NE John said:

I am also confused why Cunard is damaging one of its great assets (the self-proclaimed after 6pm “sense of occasion”) when they ignore poor behavior and ignore enforcement of the dress code.

 

Because far more damaging (to their mind) would be an aggressive passenger's confrontational response being recorded with any number of phones and then uploaded to social media.

 

[exlondoner]

2 minutes ago, no1talks said:

 

Because far more damaging (to their mind) would be an aggressive passenger's confrontational response being recorded with any number of phones and then uploaded to social media.

 

I wonder if it would. A lot of people might enjoy it.

[NE John]

Plenty of Utube videos showing unruly pax. This idea of “It’s my vacation/holiday and I do what I want” has to be checked at the boarding gate and picked up when disembarking. 

[Megabear2]

54 minutes ago, ShipboardSteve said:

 

Actually no - having been on both P&O and Cunard in the past few months, my experience was that on Formal evenings on P&O, the adherence to dress code and the kind of suits and ties for men, and dresses for ladies, during the evening. was not too much different to Gala 'evenings' on Queen Anne. Many might think that would not be the case.  But certainly Cunard was no more formal or extravagant than P&O on those voyages I have been on. The younger (30s and 40s) passengers on P&O seemed to revel in being nicely dressed for those evenings and were looking delighted at meals in the main dining room, including those with young kids, who also looked lovely in their formal wear.

What you are observing is quite normal on P&O, unfortunately it is the perceptions posted on forums and social media that their cruise ships are overrun with ill mannered, badly dressed people which clearly they aren't and therein lies my point in my second post that it has become common to use P&O as an example of low standards.  

 

When I started cruising I read countless reviews of how MSC and Costa were total rubbish with dreadful food, announcements in 6 different languages  overrun with children etc, however when I tried those lines they were perfectly acceptable and not a bit like described but as a regular Cunard cruiser they were totally different, not bad just different.

 

P&O start from a lower base on what it considers acceptable attire.  Apart from shorts not being acceptable in the evenings except for in the buffet, pretty much anything goes for their casual dress definition.  Black Tie night as described by P&O is almost identical to Cunard, just no mention of ballgowns.  However I note your comments are regarding only the latter evenings.  I've no idea which P&O ships you have experienced and see you mention only Queen Anne in comparison, but my experience across all the P&O fleet except Aurora which I've yet to sail, I have seen people in unsuitable attire contrary to the P&O dress code in the dining room and "nicer" venues such as Crows Nest or Anderson's.  The worst attire included vests, exposed midriffs and baseball hats.  Sometimes they were challenged others they weren't. These incidents are constantly complained about on the P&O forum as the same way the dress code is discussed here.  Basically neither line's passengers follows 100% what the respective line's code is and it really is naive to assume that everyone will.