GreenFamily Posted July 26 #1 Share Posted July 26 Hi, I am trying to decide between a land based trip to Italy (we have been there several times) or a cruise from Ravenna to Rome. We love Roman history and beautiful architecture and new places. I am especially interested in early Christian and Byzantine history. We are not interested in beaches and waterfalls, as we can see that here in the U.S. The cruise I am looking at would include Zadar, Split, Dubrovnik, and Kotor. I don’t know much about Diocletian history. Also, I am a bit concerned that Dubrovnik is a more of a theme park. Again, I don’t know anything about Croatia. Do you think we would like a cruise to Croatia and Montenegro? Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCteacherlovescruising Posted July 27 #2 Share Posted July 27 We did a cruise from Athens to Venice. Kotor was the most beautiful sail-in we’ve ever experienced and we absolutely loved Dubrovnik. I’m not sure what you mean about Dubrovnik being theme park? Both are places we would love to return to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare mskaufman Posted July 27 #3 Share Posted July 27 We visited all four of the ports you mentioned last week. We did not find Dubrovnik a theme park. Walk the walls for great views of the city. All four ports had wonderful old towns. In Kotor go to Perast. In Split so Trogir. What follows is one picture from each port (Zadar, Split, Dubrovnik, Kotor) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Hlitner Posted July 27 #4 Share Posted July 27 I have no idea what the OP would like or not like. I can say that we do like Croatia (and many other places around the world) and will be heading back to Dubrovnik (for a 3 week cruise) in a few weeks. Theme Park? I have no clue what that means when referring to a city. Many of us are not very happy with the impact of overtourism, but that is the price we all pay for being tourists :). The OP can escape "theme parks" by going to many of the remote places in the world such as in parts of Africa, Asia, and even Europe. But we do find that most folks who complain about overtourism are the same folks who are contributing to the problem by going to the more popular places. When we first went to Croatia and nearby Montenegro, there were not a lot of tourists. But, alas, these countries have been discovered and their popularity continues to increase. On our most recent trip to that part of Europe, we rented a car and drove through parts of Slovenia (which was surprisingly crowded with tourists). If the OP wants to get away from overtourism the best bet is to rent a car and go far from cruise ports into countries like Slovenia, Serbia, Poland, etc. Even in Croatia, there are plenty of places to escape the hoards, but one generally needs a rental car. Keep in mind that cruises and tours tend to go to tourist places. Hank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleTraveller Posted July 27 #5 Share Posted July 27 (edited) I was in Kotor, Split and Zadar two weeks ago and visited Dubrovnik in 2022. I would not agree that Dubrovnik is a theme park. We had a wonderful time there walking the entire city wall and exploring the old town. Kotor has one of the most beautiful sail in and sail outs in Europe through the Bay of Kotor and many choices of things to do. I have been there four times and love visiting Kotor. I have climbed the old wall to the Fort above Kotor for fabulous views, visited Perast and the Lady of Our Rocks Island, visited Hercig Novi a gorgeous small town and two weeks ago went to the seaside resort of Budva to see the Old Town. Each time we also had time to explore the lovely Old Town of Kotor which is just across the road from the dock. I will never tire of watching the sail out from Kotor! In Split we went to the ruins of the Roman town of Salona, visited the lovely old town of Trogir and had time to explore the Diocletian Palace in Split. In Zadar we spent all our time in the beautiful old town. All four places are lovely and we have thoroughly enjoyed visiting them. Edited July 27 by PurpleTraveller 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenFamily Posted July 27 Author #6 Share Posted July 27 Thank you for your thoughtful replies. The pictures are stunning! When I researched what to see at these ports, very superficially, it seemed like it was all about the Game of Thrones movie settings. There’s what I meant by theme park. Again, I know nothing about Croatia and the history and was wondering if there is enough to see that’s historically and culturally enriching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare kctwinmommy Posted July 27 #7 Share Posted July 27 (edited) Croatia was our favorite ports!! It was gorgeous, beyond what we had expected or known. It was fascinating to hear their history, which is pretty colorful, especially with relation to Montenegro. We would absolutely go back! As far as Game of Thrones, I've never seen a minute of the show, so I had no idea what it was for Dubrovnik. Other than the one spot our guide pointed out, but the view was amazing, so I didn't even care. I have shown it to people who watch the show and they were like "Ohhh... yeah." Split was so cool the way people now have residences within the walls of Diocletian's Palace. The people were very friendly, and funny. The drive to our river cruise, we saw amazing seascapes and beach areas that rival the Caribbean, I was just so shocked! We would totally go back to this area for sure! This is apparently the GofT view that people recognize. This was on our drive from Split to the Cetina River. Apartments in Diocletian's Palace. Diocletian's Palace, we also bough the ticket that got into all the places there, so up that tower, inside the church, etc... worth the like 15-16 bucks. Floating down the Cetina River Edited July 27 by kctwinmommy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare mskaufman Posted July 28 #8 Share Posted July 28 We have not seen Game of Thrones and found all of these ports great. If one is interested in GOT, there are related tours and shops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinburgher Posted July 28 #9 Share Posted July 28 On 7/27/2024 at 12:20 AM, GreenFamily said: We are not interested in beaches and waterfalls, That disinterest means you need to exclude many European cities and towns and it will be easier to miss some countries than others. And sadly you will miss one of the most beautiful itineraries in the world, the Norwegian Fjords. We have visited at least 7 or 8 Croatian ports over the years, both on the mainland and on islands and would recommend you try to find an itinerary which has more islands on it , such as a "Croatia Intensive" although Zadar, Split and Dubrovnik are a decent starting point. Biggest issue with Dubrovnik is not its locations for GOT scenes, it is crowds. Usually very very busy Local authorities are reducing the number of cruise ship calls but it is also busy with visitors on land trips and coach tours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinburgher Posted July 28 #10 Share Posted July 28 On 7/27/2024 at 12:20 AM, GreenFamily said: I am especially interested in early Christian and Byzantine history. Have you ever considered a land trip to Greece or Turkey? (or cruises with a particular focus on these two countries) Both would offer you as much early Christian and Byzantine history as you can handle. For a land trip, you could start with a minimum of a week in Istanbul alone, but the more you look into Turkey the more you will find. And Greece too of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinburgher Posted July 29 #11 Share Posted July 29 On 7/27/2024 at 12:20 AM, GreenFamily said: We are not interested in beaches and waterfalls 19 hours ago, edinburgher said: That disinterest means you need to exclude many European cities and towns and it will be easier to miss some countries than others. And sadly you will miss one of the most beautiful itineraries in the world, the Norwegian Fjords. A small PS to that post as I should have added ICELAND to it, and that is a shame as Iceland has many unique natural sites/sights found nowhere else in the world which you would miss unless you choose to go for these experiences but avoid the huge waterfalls of Godafoss and Gullfoss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Hlitner Posted July 30 #12 Share Posted July 30 I get the disinterest in beaches (we happen to be beach lovers) but am puzzled by a disinterest in waterfalls! My first thought, when I saw that, was cruising through Prince Christiansund and seeing some of the gorgeous waterfalls. In fact, many Captains, when going through this area, will actually do a 360 degree turn when they encounter some of these waterfalls. Hank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchum Posted August 8 #13 Share Posted August 8 Just back from Croatia visiting all places mentioned. All are medieval cities, some settled in pre Roman times, mostly owing their current architecture Venetians. As for theme parks there are no rides or 3d experiences we found, and mice in Kotor would be welcomed with open paws. It is easy to get off the beaten track even in Dubrovnik, find a side street up a steep set of steps- we paid €3.50 for a beer in a local place where no one offered English. Diocletian simply built himself a nice retirement home - think Florida without the alligators. He got a bad press as Christian scholars wrote the history. IMHO We did swim at a couple of places because it was very hot but there are no real beaches. Kotor under no circumstances allow your 76 year old husband to drag you up the city walls 1350 stone steps. Heading back next year for a land based holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Hlitner Posted August 9 #14 Share Posted August 9 17 hours ago, Catchum said: I r We did swim at a couple of places because it was very hot but there are no real beaches. Kotor under no circumstances allow your 76 year old husband to drag you up the city walls 1350 stone steps. Heading back next year for a land based holiday. I resemble that remark! At that age, no problem walking the wall and steps :). Granted, that some folks who are 76 or 80 might have issues with steps. On the other hand, we do 10 miles power walks for fun, and walking around the walls at Kotor or Dubrovnik is not an issue. From what we see, these days, there are probably a lot of 30 years olds that would have more trouble with those walls. They are the ones you see using an elevator to go down 1 deck :). Will be back in Croatia, leter this month, and look forward to some swimming in the sea at Dubrovnik (we are staying there for a few days). Hnak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchum Posted August 9 #15 Share Posted August 9 13 minutes ago, Hlitner said: I resemble that remark! At that age, no problem walking the wall and steps :). Granted, that some folks who are 76 or 80 might have issues with steps. On the other hand, we do 10 miles power walks for fun, and walking around the walls at Kotor or Dubrovnik is not an issue. From what we see, these days, there are probably a lot of 30 years olds that would have more trouble with those walls. They are the ones you see using an elevator to go down 1 deck :). Will be back in Croatia, leter this month, and look forward to some swimming in the sea at Dubrovnik (we are staying there for a few days). Hnak Oh we had no trouble going up or down - I'm considerably younger than 76 and we are both fit. But it was 100% his idea and I was conned into it by him saying we would just go to the church, then just a bit further...... it was memorable and my comment was intended to be humorous. Re swimming at Dubrovnik for some reason the water was much colder then anywhere else in Croatia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare cruisemom42 Posted August 11 #16 Share Posted August 11 On 7/29/2024 at 6:36 AM, edinburgher said: A small PS to that post as I should have added ICELAND to it, and that is a shame as Iceland has many unique natural sites/sights found nowhere else in the world which you would miss unless you choose to go for these experiences but avoid the huge waterfalls of Godafoss and Gullfoss. On 7/30/2024 at 10:04 AM, Hlitner said: I get the disinterest in beaches (we happen to be beach lovers) but am puzzled by a disinterest in waterfalls! My first thought, when I saw that, was cruising through Prince Christiansund and seeing some of the gorgeous waterfalls. In fact, many Captains, when going through this area, will actually do a 360 degree turn when they encounter some of these waterfalls. Hank I'd have to put myself in the camp that just doesn't get much out of natural scenery. I don't necessarily avoid it -- I've been to Iceland and Greenland, Alaska, Hawaii, a fair amount of the SW US, etc. And I'm leaving for a cruise to the Norwegian fjords next week -- but it just doesn't pull me in the way ancient history does. I prefer to look at all the wonders that human hands have made throughout history. I can't think of a single beach or waterfall that can compare with something like the Pantheon in Rome or the Pont du Gard (Roman aqueduct) outside Nimes, or some of the Greek sculpture I've seen, or the magnificent carved gems and cameos made during the Imperial Roman era, or.... Well, you get the picture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Hlitner Posted August 11 #17 Share Posted August 11 1 minute ago, cruisemom42 said: I'd have to put myself in the camp that just doesn't get much out of natural scenery. I don't necessarily avoid it -- I've been to Iceland and Greenland, Alaska, Hawaii, a fair amount of the SW US, etc. And I'm leaving for a cruise to the Norwegian fjords next week -- but it just doesn't pull me in the way ancient history does. I prefer to look at all the wonders that human hands have made throughout history. I can't think of a single beach or waterfall that can compare with something like the Pantheon in Rome or the Pont du Gard (Roman aqueduct) outside Nimes, or some of the Greek sculpture I've seen, or the magnificent carved gems and cameos made during the Imperial Roman era, or.... Well, you get the picture. We do know you of your love of history and historic places, so no surprise with your post. Think of the cruise to the Fjords as a real vacation LOL. DW actually enjoys that kind of itinerary since it means easy days :). When we are in the places where there are historic sites, I have been known to drag her more than 10 miles (walking) in a port day. If you manage to get to Oslo, you will find some things of interest in that city. Hank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare cruisemom42 Posted August 11 #18 Share Posted August 11 @edinburgher I was trying to find the post where we were discussing the Roman armor (arm guard) recently reassembled, which was found in Scotland. Just wanted to let you know I saw it in the exhibition on Life in the Roman Army at the British Museum in June. The real show stopper for me was a piece on loan from Yale, the only known complete and painted Roman cylindrical shield (scutum) from Syria. I’ve never seen anything like it, and I’ve seen lots of Roman gear! Took a couple of pics. Really worth the price of admission. The paint is all original. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare cruisemom42 Posted August 11 #19 Share Posted August 11 14 minutes ago, Hlitner said: We do know you of your love of history and historic places, so no surprise with your post. Think of the cruise to the Fjords as a real vacation LOL. DW actually enjoys that kind of itinerary since it means easy days :). When we are in the places where there are historic sites, I have been known to drag her more than 10 miles (walking) in a port day. If you manage to get to Oslo, you will find some things of interest in that city. Hank I hear you about Oslo, but I'm gnashing my teeth that the Viking Ship museum is closed for renovation.... 🤬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Hlitner Posted August 12 #20 Share Posted August 12 3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said: I hear you about Oslo, but I'm gnashing my teeth that the Viking Ship museum is closed for renovation.... 🤬 Ouch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinburgher Posted August 12 #21 Share Posted August 12 (edited) 8 hours ago, cruisemom42 said: I was trying to find the post where we were discussing the Roman armor (arm guard) recently reassembled, which was found in Scotland. Post #18 on this thread, the topic of which which has no bearing whatsoever on it.😉 https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2995349-pax/#comment-67026532 We look forward to seeing it when it goes on permanent display here in the National Museum of Scotland,Edinburgh, once the loan period to the British Museum ends. 8 hours ago, cruisemom42 said: The real show stopper for me was a piece on loan from Yale, the only known complete and painted Roman cylindrical shield (scutum) from Syria. I’ve never seen anything like it, and I’ve seen lots of Roman gear! Took a couple of pics. Really worth the price of admission. The paint is all original. That is one fabulous object!! We googled it and discovered it is made of wood and painted leather, and incredibly well preserved. Totally understand why it was the showstopper for you. For us, one of our personal showstoppers was the (not Roman) Mycenaean body armour on display in the Archaeological Museum in Nafplio. When we visited Berlin on a one week city break, we spend almost a full 2 of those days in three different museums with the best Greek and Roman exhibits, the museums being one of the main reasons for us choosing Berlin over a different city.The first of those two days was intense as we were in two of those museums the entire day, only stepping out briefly for a snack lunch, but we later admitted we "slightly" overdid it. What a pity you never got to visit Leptis Magna or Sabratha(although Ephesus is on a par with Sabratha)Simply walking through the entrance to Leptis was one of those "pinch me I must be dreaming" moments for us. Edited August 12 by edinburgher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare mskaufman Posted August 20 #22 Share Posted August 20 Some picture videos from last month's trip Rijeka https://youtu.be/Qf4-KT8p4Gw Zadar https://youtu.be/O8RJPIbNlLk Dubrovnik https://youtu.be/aXaKYt3YtaE Kotor https://youtu.be/PQMuWULywpA Split https://youtu.be/q2Q1P53QzNI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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