Really struggling with NCL ethics and whether I should switch cruise lines

[DorothyB]

My history:  I sailed on Carnival 3 times before my first NCL cruise.  I did do one Carnival cruise after 2 NCL cruises because I was cruising with friends.  I am now Platinum with NCL.  I have sailed NCL 8 times with three of those in suites (haven on the two vessels that had a haven).  I currently have three more cruises booked in the next 7 months - two in solo balconies and one in a Prima haven suite.

 

So . . . I have been reading about all of the itinerary changes, but since being loyal is one of my big strengths and weaknesses, I wasn't too concerned.  However . . . then comes my next cruise.

 

I am booked on the Getaway October 27th sailing.  We have been wondering why NO excursions for a LONG time - and have been given many different stories ranging from one person saying itinerary not final; multiple people saying they were still negotiating with vendors; multiple people saying that the excursions were all sold out; multiple people saying that it was an issue with uploading them.

 

For most cabins, the penalty for canceling goes up to 50% starting 90 days out.  So 89 days out, after regular cabins have a 50% penalty and suites, etc have 75% penalty, they send out the email saying that the itinerary has changed. 

 

Honestly, I'm not really that concerned with the changes to the port (other than wishing I hadn't spent an hour booking excursions with outside companies that I now have to cancel or change).  I would have liked to see Harvest Caye, but not that big of a deal.

 

What I am struggling a LOT with is that they lied to us and are acting unethically to make more money.  I am not sure if I should just recognize that all companies are just out to make profit even if it means lying to us . . . 

 

But I think I'm ready to seriously consider changing cruise lines.  I asked last week and was told that I could wear jeans to dinner every day on Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Princess and MSC - is this true??  and is MSC the only one of those that will match lattitudes level?  All of those sail from the nearest port.  How do prices compare?

 

Am I crazy to expect a company to treat me ethically??

[zqvol]

Time to go to another cruise line

[d9704011]

5 minutes ago, DorothyB said:

Am I crazy to expect a company to treat me ethically??

No, but I agree with zqvol's suggestion that you switch cruise lines.

[sheila77]

What did the itinerary change to?  I was booked on the Getaway for the end of November and no excursions were available as well. 

I had to cancel for other reasons but I am curious to what the itinerary changed to since I may book another week in October.

 

It may still be contract issues? Maybe? 

 

I think changing is a personal decision, but I do understand your frustration.

 

[cruiseny4life]

I struggle with this. Immensely! I've voiced my ethical concerns about NCL's leadership and organizational culture on multiple occasions on these boards. Yet, I keep booking NCL (shame on me - the hypocrite). I say that to say, I completely understand where you're coming from. 

 

Aside from missed ports, there are other areas of concern I have - I won't get into them here. At least not right now. I've certainly mentioned them before on these boards. And, I've had plenty of people (our laughing friend @zqvol too) tell me to wander to a new cruise line. And so I researched. The big lines are all the same. Each one have plenty of ethical concerns with their leadership, since my personal ethics don't always insist upon maximizing profit (theirs do - thanks Friedman). Don't even start on the potential environmental ethics of cruising (I tend to ignore that one - again, hypocrite, I am). 

 

I've looked at other lines, such as Uncruise, Hurtigruten, Maple Leaf Adventures, Lindblad, etc....unfortunately, my husband is completely uninterested in these lines. 

 

I can't answer the question for you. I mainly write to tell you that you're not alone. I will say that it seems (non-scientific opinion, here) NCL does indeed cancel ports more often than other lines. And for not emergency/weather/maintenance related reasons. 

Good luck in wherever you decide to go!! 

 

What was your original itinerary and did they provide a reason for altering the itinerary at this after final payment time (not surprised at all by this). As another poster said, earlier today or yesterday, Dirty Harry leads the business and he leads the way NCL's organizational culture thinks. We've both (that other poster and I) labeled Harry "dirty" for a reason. And I've never seen the movie! 

[JamesIowa]

NCL changes itinerary, no big impact for you, and you’re wondering if you should be offended? 

Where is the supposed unethical bit? They could have just as easily changed the ports the day of, embarkation day, etc. Itineraries change all the time, some in advance others as needed. You’re conflating the timing of the announcement to the 90 days before sailing as something NCL is doing to trick you? Am I reading this right?

 

[DorothyB]

Absolutely - they waited until day 89 on purpose.  I'm ok with itinerary changes that are needed or even that they decide is "better" but to not tell us when they know - even if it is "we aren't sure yet whether the order of ports or exact ports will be changing" (obviously if due to weather there could be no warning)

 

Unfortunately, I figured out that MSC doesn't have anytime dining . . . Royal Caribbean and Carnival do . . . 

Edited July 31 by DorothyB

[Mehroswitha]

As an infrequent NCCL cruiser I have no personal experiences with their ethics to offer, and your decision about switching lines is completely up to you.

 

What I can tell you, though, is that when things have gone wrong and/or changes became necessary Viking has always treated us in a way we felt was entirely fair and equitable. Not the only reason we usually choose Viking, but certainly a factor. 

 

That being said, our next cruise is with NCL!

Edited July 31 by Mehroswitha

[graphicguy]

Not quite following the "ethical" argument.

 

But, having sailed all the other lines you referenced, while I like both Royal and Carnival (for very different reasons), one of them is not their implementation of "free at sea" type of dining.  NCL originated it and still does it way better, as you know since you've sailed them previously.  You see what restaurants are open, you show up, you get seated.  No making reservations.  No planning around a dining time.

 

As far as the rest, I don't know the itinerary on your Getaway cruise as the NCL WEB site is doing funky things.  You want to be irritated, be irritated about that.

 

So, my guess is there is some sort of issue with excursion booking related to that.

 

Unethical?  Ummmmmm....just can't go there.  But, if it's something you feel is a large enough issue, you should indeed find another cruise line (or at least one that has their WEB site operating correctly).

 

Loyalty is always a 2 way street.  Given you've also sailed Carnival, I'm not getting the vibe you're feeling particularly loyal.  Nothing wrong with that.  Just an observation.

 

If you're looking for a reason to book something else, sounds like you're looking for reasons.  Don't need them.  Just do it.

[cheersforbeers]

We are on the same sailing and did not receive any notice about any changes. We did for the 10/20 cruise but it was only and time change for Cozumel! 

Edited July 31 by cheersforbeers

[Laszlo]

1 hour ago, DorothyB said:

My history:  I sailed on Carnival 3 times before my first NCL cruise.  I did do one Carnival cruise after 2 NCL cruises because I was cruising with friends.  I am now Platinum with NCL.  I have sailed NCL 8 times with three of those in suites (haven on the two vessels that had a haven).  I currently have three more cruises booked in the next 7 months - two in solo balconies and one in a Prima haven suite.

 

So . . . I have been reading about all of the itinerary changes, but since being loyal is one of my big strengths and weaknesses, I wasn't too concerned.  However . . . then comes my next cruise.

 

I am booked on the Getaway October 27th sailing.  We have been wondering why NO excursions for a LONG time - and have been given many different stories ranging from one person saying itinerary not final; multiple people saying they were still negotiating with vendors; multiple people saying that the excursions were all sold out; multiple people saying that it was an issue with uploading them.

 

For most cabins, the penalty for canceling goes up to 50% starting 90 days out.  So 89 days out, after regular cabins have a 50% penalty and suites, etc have 75% penalty, they send out the email saying that the itinerary has changed. 

 

Honestly, I'm not really that concerned with the changes to the port (other than wishing I hadn't spent an hour booking excursions with outside companies that I now have to cancel or change).  I would have liked to see Harvest Caye, but not that big of a deal.

 

What I am struggling a LOT with is that they lied to us and are acting unethically to make more money.  I am not sure if I should just recognize that all companies are just out to make profit even if it means lying to us . . . 

 

But I think I'm ready to seriously consider changing cruise lines.  I asked last week and was told that I could wear jeans to dinner every day on Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Princess and MSC - is this true??  and is MSC the only one of those that will match lattitudes level?  All of those sail from the nearest port.  How do prices compare?

 

Am I crazy to expect a company to treat me ethically??

Unfortunately we will probably never know the truth but the change could have been completely out of control of NCL

[cheersforbeers]

I just logged into my account, listed is a total of 104 excursions and I was allowed to book? Strange 

[hoops71]

While the timing may be specific and suspicious to you. Numerous Getaway itineraries were changed yesterday. Including mine set for January 2025 and for friends of ours later in the year. And I am well outside 90 days.  Mine kept most of the ports, but on completely different days and times.

[cheersforbeers]

I was addressing excursions not itinerary changes, thanks

[cruiseny4life]

Same experience as @hoops71 here. After I wrote my diatribe above, I received an email decreasing port times in all, but one of our ports. We're still going to Harvest Caye - if that drops, then I'd be really upset! 

 

As I said on my roll call, new wording is to "positively impacting society and the environment." To do this, NCL needs to hang it up and stop cruising. That's the only way a cruise line could truly positively impact the environment. I suppose the society thing is more about having cruise passengers in ports beyond 4 or 5 PM. From a port's perspective, I get that. 

 

We're also well ahead of final payment, so NCL did the right thing here, though I do stand by my comments above.

 

[Red-Sol]

I wish you luck with your decision and know it isn't an easy one to make. I will say that there have been many NCL regulars who have already left or are in the process of it. Various reasons for that include ethical behavior (or actually a lack of it), many cutbacks, beyond ridiculous price increases (no matter how much they want to think they are NCL is NOT a competitor to the luxury cruise market), eliminated or reduced sailings from NYC and perhaps other ports as well (maybe they are having unannounced problems filling the ships?), and I'm sure there are more. 

[cheersforbeers]

3 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Same experience as @hoops71 here. After I wrote my diatribe above, I received an email decreasing port times in all, but one of our ports. We're still going to Harvest Caye - if that drops, then I'd be really upset! 

 

As I said on my roll call, new wording is to "positively impacting society and the environment." To do this, NCL needs to hang it up and stop cruising. That's the only way a cruise line could truly positively impact the environment. I suppose the society thing is more about having cruise passengers in ports beyond 4 or 5 PM. From a port's perspective, I get that. 

 

We're also well ahead of final payment, so NCL did the right thing here, though I do stand by my comments above.

 

Those changes are valid y’all’s cruise, but Dorothy is referring to October 27th sailing, which I’m on and also the one before it and the one after it and I have not received any notices of any Itinerary changes, but I could be wrong? 
Thanks

[hoops71]

I was trying to address the OP  regarding timing of announcement not excursions.  Sorry but I don’t  know how to make that clear because of my own poor use of these boards.  All I am saying is that there is no conspiracy or ethically issue behind the timing.  Ineptitude absolutely, but I don’t believe it’s purposeful.  They are not that clever

[edspec]

NCL has lost me for a lot of reasons but the port issue would be number #1.  They've become ridiculous in changing itineraries after the 90 day mark and the supposed Antartica cruise a few months back is a prime example...no way would I trust them on anything but a cruise to ports I'd already been to. What's the fun or adventure in that?  I do think they're unethical and have no concern for long term, just focused on short term which I feel will probably bite them in the behind.  

 

[cruiseny4life]

6 minutes ago, cheersforbeers said:

Those changes are valid y’all’s cruise, but Dorothy is referring to October 27th sailing, which I’m on and also the one before it and the one after it and I have not received any notices of any Itinerary changes, but I could be wrong? 
Thanks

I suppose I'm missing your point. @DorothyB stated she received an itinerary change and you're here talking about shore excursions. 

 

NCL sends out itinerary changes in waves. Not many email systems can handle sending 2,000, 3,000, or more emails out at one time. NCL has a notoriously rotten IT system. You'll receive your itinerary change in good time. Or, perhaps, not until you board knowing NCL's (stealing @hoops71 big word here) ineptitude. 

[graphicguy]

I have a theory and an opinion.  We all know how much either of them are worth.

 

I think with NCL sailing at capacity on every sailing, the contracts for excursions may not include as many participants as they anticipated.  In an excursion can't accommodate, a change needs to be made.

 

As far as itinerary changes, I got nothing.  Again, those contracts and arrangements are made months in advance.  I would imagine it's a huge PITA (and costly) for the cruise lines when they have to make those changes.  And, it trickles down to the guest, who only sees their excursion and/or itinerary change.

Edited July 31 by graphicguy

[Laszlo]

38 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Same experience as @hoops71 here. After I wrote my diatribe above, I received an email decreasing port times in all, but one of our ports. We're still going to Harvest Caye - if that drops, then I'd be really upset! 

 

As I said on my roll call, new wording is to "positively impacting society and the environment." To do this, NCL needs to hang it up and stop cruising. That's the only way a cruise line could truly positively impact the environment. I suppose the society thing is more about having cruise passengers in ports beyond 4 or 5 PM. From a port's perspective, I get that. 

 

We're also well ahead of final payment, so NCL did the right thing here, though I do stand by my comments above.

 

I see you are going to Costa Maya. If you have never been there do yourself a favor and book a day at Maya Chan beach (private resort). My wife and I loved it there (twice)

Edited July 31 by Laszlo

[DorothyB]

57 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Loyalty is always a 2 way street.  Given you've also sailed Carnival, I'm not getting the vibe you're feeling particularly loyal.  Nothing wrong with that.  Just an observation.

 

If you're looking for a reason to book something else, sounds like you're looking for reasons.  Don't need them.  Just do it.

Thanks for your response and thank you everyone else for your responses.

 

Loyalty - my first three Carnival cruises were before I cruised NCL - I loved the freestyle dining with NCL.  My fourth Carnival cruise was because friends were already booked on Carnival and I joined them.  

I really want a reason to NOT change cruise lines.  I'm not a fan of change at all.  Feeling overwhelmed with all to learn on a new cruise line - anytime dining? specialty dining? do they have Dr Pepper?  Internet options? etc, etc, etc

[cheersforbeers]

17 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

I suppose I'm missing your point. @DorothyB stated she received an itinerary change and you're here talking about shore excursions. 

 

NCL sends out itinerary changes in waves. Not many email systems can handle sending 2,000, 3,000, or more emails out at one time. NCL has a notoriously rotten IT system. You'll receive your itinerary change in good time. Or, perhaps, not until you board knowing NCL's (stealing @hoops71 big word here) ineptitude. 

Dorothy also mentioned she has no excursions listed and I have 104 which I’m able to book. Sometime it helps to read what’s an op has stated, but I could be wrong. 

[cruiseny4life]

6 minutes ago, cheersforbeers said:

Dorothy also mentioned she has no excursions listed and I have 104 which I’m able to book. Sometime it helps to read what’s an op has stated, but I could be wrong. 

It sure does. I don't care about shore excursions. You don't care about the itinerary change. We're both responding to different parts of her post. Nowhere do the response rules (that don't exist) claim you have to respond to the entirety of the post.

 

There. You keep on the shore excursion side and I'll stick with the itinerary change. 🤝