Summit Alaskan cruise disappointment (MERGER OF 5 THREADS ON THIS TOPIC)

[Sky Sweet]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but here's my understanding:

 

Glacier Bay is a National Park and access is controlled by the NPS. Only certain cruise lines have permits to sail Glacier Bay.

 

Hubbard Glacier is far from Glacier Bay (several hundred miles, perhaps?). I've never read about restrictions by the NPS, or other agencies, on visits to Hubbard? Are there any?

 

We were on the 5/7 Summit, and while we were hanging back at a distance of perhaps 4-5 miles from the glacier, there appeared to be TWO ships close to the glacier. I believe one was the Mercury, and the other was a HAL ship. People nearby said that on previous cruises their ship had been one of several at a time close to Hubbard.

 

Lois

 

 

Lois, you are correct. The Hubbard Glacier is in Yukutat Bay.

[BEAV]

Please read before posting.

 

Not to worry. I did and I have.

 

And a big welcome to Cruise Critic as I see you joined just six days ago. Will look forward to your sharing all about your cruises you've coded blue in your signature. ;)

[CaliforniaDreamin]

Hubbard Glacier (from Summit Daily dated May 15th, 2006)

 

Stretching over 90 miles from the core of the 12-million acre Wrangell-St. Elias National Park to the head of Yakutat Bay, the mighty Hubbard Glacier is one of Alaska's largest and most unpredictable......................... This incident with Russel Fjord has not deterred the six-mile wide, 300 foot high face of Hubbard Glacier-to this day it continues its determined advance.

 

The naturalist, her son and nephew who boarded Summit to talk about the region are from Yakutat Village. She is a school teacher.

 

Oh, and this was our fifth visit to Hubbard Glacier. We did get closer every other time. Summit and at least one other ship (once or twice two others) were spread out close to the face each time before.

 

Actually, I estimate we approached to within 2-3 miles this time. But my measurement was strictly eyeball, not GPS.

[Petert]

When a ship such as the Summit has a problem with with the propulsion system there is a related degradation in the manauvering capability of the ship. With the very large area of the ship exposed to the winds, nearly 1000ft X 200ft, sudden wind gusts and currents can cause the ship to require large amounts of thrust from the propulsion system to maintain a safe distance from other ships and natural obstructions. It is most likely that there was some winds blowing in the bay that reduced the manauvering capability margins available to the Captain, and he was simply unable to safely approach the other ships, or to get closer to the glacier, and was concerned that the winds might increase to an unsafe force.

 

We had a similar experience in New Zealand, when we had only one screw operating when we were scheduled to enter a Fjord to pick up some passengers who had taken a cross island ships excursion. The Captain of the Legend of the Seas found that the winds were too strong to safely manauver the ship in the constrained area of the fjord, so we had to abandon the tour party, until they were able to catch up with us in Tasmania.

 

Petert

[griswalds]

I think we should keep the "1800 of our men & women fighting for us in Iraq" out of this issue as they deserve much better treatment.

 

Griswalds

 

 

Too bad the US Government didn't charter Summit for the 5/07/06 sailing and give 1800 of our men & women fighting for us in Iraq a 'surprise cruise'. I'll bet there wouldn't have been as much as one complaint for missing two ports. Let's see, two more days to spend aboard a luxury cruise liner vs guarding Baghdad ....

[ZlistCelebrity]

There is an old saying that if you put a beggar on horseback, he will ride straight to hell. This, unfortunately, is one of the consequences of having a cruise that is cheap enough to attract passengers who behave in this manner.

 

Cheap cruise what are you talking about, we in the UK and Europe never got a cheap cruise, we alone paid £2500 POUNDS for our cc cabin 6069 and that is just cruise only air fare was £1500 return via american and we arranged a two day extra stay at either end for our first time on the west coast

 

please don't belittle at least 50% of the people on this cruise who did not get a cheap cruise or are you saying that because celebrity positioned it as a cheap re-positioning cruise THEY THEN GAVE US WHAT WE DESERVED, YOU ARE THEN SAYING THAT CELEBRITY TREATED US AS CHEAP CRUISERS' with contempt, is that correct!!

 

Most of the facts are correct that good people have bothered to put on this thread, the messages are

1. FOR CELEBRITY ON THIS CRUISE. people not bothered are americans who can go at any time, are celebrity nuts and can't see anything wrong ever, or people who are willing to accept anything for their dollar as their lot.

 

or

 

2. AGAINST CELEBRITY ON THIS CRUISE - people who work hard all year for their annual holiday and having studied the hype about rcl and the 5* celebrity choose celebrity for a better SUPPOSED FAMOUS TREATMENT ON CELEBRITY, they are also people who will not be fed bull sh*t lies and suffer poor overall treatment, whether paying top prices or cheap last minute re-positioning price( wish it had been me, won't fall for that one again, don't lose that much if the thing goes wrong ,as it may, according to you as quality is clearly equalled to price paid in your eyes)

 

the experience was horrendous overall, one thing after another and to be honest, the ship is looking very tatty, worn and the majority of the staff are jaded, don't take our word for it go yourself, what is amusing is that most people on some other review sites are bothered about the revelation night club which is now the bar at the edge, and how they hate it, saying that celebrity only changed it to make more money but it isn't so use the time in dry dock ot change it back!, what's that about.

 

Good people, for some their last holiday as they have terminal illnesses, have in good faith booked with this company for whatever reasons and paid what they found the cruise priced at when they looked.

 

The old saying, it takes all sorts, is correct, we the passengers who are not sitting back and taking it, have found a wonderful community spirit together, and we are carrying on even if we can make people who intend to book look carefully at the ships' history and terms and conditions to make an informed choice and then hopefully vote with their feet.

 

Any passenger here who has not got the details of our group site and would like to join please email me at paulinekell@ntlworld.com

 

 

cruise history:-

QE2 to NY - april 2003

Ocean Village - Caribbean April 2004

Legend of the seas - Panama canal dec 2004 to jan 2005

no other holiday until

Celebrity summit may 2006 La to Vancouver via Alaska

 

Not a bad experience so far, we expected better and never got it, was htat totally due to price paid!

[FlyingTiger]

Will look forward to your sharing all about your cruises you've coded blue in your signature. ;)

 

Thank you for warm welcome. I would be glad to write about the many nice cruises we experienced. Unfortunately it won´t happen in this Celebrity thread.

 

One thing I wanted to ask you. I did read many of your well balanced and informative posts in diverse threads in this forum, including your misfortunes with cruise lines. In most posts you react cool and undertake some effort to "calm the waves". Why did you push waves this time by polarizing and bringing in the soldiers guarding Bagdhad? The effect on most people can be easy foreseen and is no help for the deceived of the May 7th Alaskacruise. (1800 orphans on that cruise would have no complaint as well.)

What is it about, that so many of you posters undertake so much effort to make the deceived passengers look stupid, instead of giving substantial help?

Thanks again and happy sailings

[cruising with marti]

Tiger

In what way were you "deceived"? are you saying that X knew in advance that they would experience thruster problems and chose not to inform the pax?:confused: :confused: :confused:

Phil

[Cuizer2]

Tiger

 

In what way were you "deceived"? are you saying that X knew in advance that they would experience thruster problems and chose not to inform the pax?:confused: :confused: :confused:

 

Phil

 

Have you read this thread before posting??? That is exactly what several passengers are saying.

[FlyingTiger]

Tiger

 

In what way were you "deceived"? are you saying that X knew in advance that they would experience thruster problems and chose not to inform the pax?:confused: :confused: :confused:

 

Phil

 

Not in advance, but they knew ex L.A. about the problem and didn´t inform the pax. Even after inspection in S.F. they didn´t inform the pax until the next morning at sea. The captain did admit that at the following meeting with passengers (thats on tape). But far more: deceived, because we were told that they would make the most out of the rest of the cruise to please the passengers. How that looked like, you can read in many posts in this thread. Deceived because we were told that executives from Celebrity would be flown in (Ketchikan) to deal with the matter. No executives, just office clerks came onto the ship. I personally spend a whole day to get the chance to talk to them. All they did was taking notes of my complaint in order to mail them to the "corporation". At no time I had the feeling that anyone on board of the Summit had executive power to do anything. Everything was excused because decisions were done by the "corporation" only. Even my simple asking for a signed acknowledgment ( I had that prepared already) for not accepting $200 as compansation was turned down with the words: the corporation" doesn´t allow that. Deceived, because we were told to be able to stay at least 3 hours at Hubbard Glacier. Well, 45 minutes in some 5-7 mile distance. Deceived, because we were sitting a whole day at sea (because of the fog said the captain)in order to get into Inside passage. The fog lifted after half an hour, but we still had to wait for until evening to pick up a pilot and get going. Definitly "deceived" is the right word.

Thanks for your attention and happy sailings

[cruising with marti]

Have you read this thread before posting??? That is exactly what several passengers are saying.

 

Is reading the entire thread a requirement before posting? But yes, I have read a good portion of the thread. I just am having a hard time with the deception angle.

that is not to say that I don't have empathy for the pax on that particular cruise, but don't believe for a minuet, that X knew about the thruster problems in advance

Phil

[agabbymama]

If they didn't know in Los Angeles, they certainly knew in San Francisco when they were told to keep their speed down to 17.5 knots. That ship should never have left San Francisco if it couldn't keep it's speed to do the itinerary as planned. And the Captain knew that in advance. So yes, I do believe there was deceit.:eek:

 

It would have been better to cancel the cruise totally. But Celebrity knew they would lose money cancelling two cruises, so they tried to go ahead with the one in progress and only cancel the one cruise following.

[cechase]

Flying Tiger could you or one of your group please post the tape and the video which I have heard much about on this thread. I would very much prefer to see the actual tape or video rather than hear about it.

 

Thank you.

[florida_cruiser]

but don't believe for a minuet, that X knew about the thruster problems in advance

 

This is a problem that has been known about for years and historically happens once a year. Celebrity had to have known it was imminent and from what I have read about the cruise from Hawaii to LA on this thread there were apparently indications the last few days that the situation was about to occur once again or was actually occuring.

 

Irregardless of any prior knowledge on the previous cruise, with this being a known problem Celebrity has a duty to inform potentional passengers of the chances that their cruise may be disrupted due to mechanical failure of the pod system. A class action suit will be successful as Celebrity has been deceitful in that they are not giving any notice to their customers that they are sailing on a defective product. Would you put up with this sort of deceit if you were purchasing any other major consumer product.

 

Please don't anybody respond with its common knowledge on these boards with respect to the problem and you sail at your own risk as 90% of the passengers don't have a clue what cruise critic is or that these ships have any sort of problem. Normally if you were to sail at your own risk you would have signed a waiver acknowleging you are aware of the problems and you are willing to go anyways.

 

For all those people on these boards who seem to think it is not a big deal to miss ports or have the itinerary altered because the contract states Celebrity is not responsible lets look at these items:

 

1. Not all passengers are able to cruise several times a year let alone do an Alaskan cruise multiple times. For those of you who can - great. Many of us cannot.

 

2. Many passengers were from Europe and as such in addition to the cruise fare incurred additional costs for trans-atlantic airfare etc.. For them this may have been the only time they were ever going to get there.

 

3. For those of you who cruise in inside cabins where the financial outlay is not as substantial as a suite you may have used that as a basis that it did not cost them so much so no big deal. It could have cost them 5 times or more from what you paid so it is a big deal.

 

4. If the shoe was on the other foot and you had flown say from the US to New Zealand for a cruise to Australia only to find out on your first day on the ship that it had mechanical problems, could only go half speed and would cruise non-stop to Australia with no stops along the way. Would you be angry? Would you want your money back including airfare? Please don't say this hypothetical is too far fetched - because it could happen so your response should be as if it did happen.

 

Would your response be the same - its not about the ports - its the cruise experience? Would you chalk it up to just your bad luck? I sincerely doubt it!!! Does the video of the captain raising his hand in agreement that they should be entitled to a refund mean anything to you? Please give these people their due and let them know you too believe they are being ripped off by Celebrity. They simply did not get what they bargained for.

[OuiOnboard]

I wish they would have cancelled the cruise. I can just hear the crying and moaning, but the topic would be different.

Perhaps not...providing X followed the refund/free cruise route they offered to the pax on the cancelled May 20 cruise. :)

.......Oui

[florida_cruiser]

I wish they would have cancelled the cruise.

 

I'm sure most of the passengers feel the same way - it would have saved them alot of heartache as well as their hard earned cruise dollars.

 

Somehow I bet when this is all said and done so will Celebrity.

[cruiser2004]

Five separate threads have now been combined into one big mess. Each of the old threads stated a concern. I am sure that Celebrity and many stockholders will be very happy to see that the truth is once again getting scrambled. If anyone thinks that this is going to just go away they are mistaken. Most of the passengers on this Summit cruise (yes we were on this cruise) are still united in their efforts to get Celebrity to clean up its act.

[Ma Bell]

I guess we'll just all have to wait and see. I'm ready. Sounds like everything has been said.

[Host Anne]

Cruiser2004 ~ Host Walt and I discussed the combining of the Summit threads because much of the same information was being posted over and over again on a variety of different threads. We want everyone's voice to be heard and it is much better if everything is in once place so everyone has the chance to read everyone's opinion. While each may have had a different headline to begin, they all ultimately were all saying the same thing. We wouldn't have merged them if that had not been the case.

[BSeaBob]

The Thread ebbs and flows like........the Ocean tide. I think I have read most if not all of the threads.

I will post X's press release of August 7th 2003. This has been my bible for booking cruises since.

Now a little history. We had a cruise on the Sumitt cancelled a week before sailing and received a discount on a Panama Cruise on the Infinity. We had to abandon the Infinity in Acalpulco as it's Pods failed. We received a discount on an Alaskan cruise (outside the original time frame of the offer) That cruise was on the Infinity and we made it. We since have cruised on the Infinity again.

We are quite aware of the possibility of "Not making it" BUT our circumstances have changed and we are now flexable with our holiday time.

 

I know first hand that the main thing that bothers everyone is (besides likely not being aware of the very real possibilities of breaking down compared to other ships) is the ruined holiday time.

It can not be replaced for most people and add in your personal Air and other travel plans it can be expensive. It's just not any fun at all. Nothing can make you feel good about it. Nothing.

 

It's clear that "Corperate" did not want to cancel this cruise as then they would HAVE to give everyone a free cruise that was aboard and the next weeks cancelled cruise also. (See press release) but regardless everyone aboard did get a cruise.

 

We have been treated pretty fairly by X and although I didn't like the circumstances at all; as time passes the Story(s) I tell get better and better.

 

X has a real problem and it's greater than we all can imagine. Shareholders beware. They of course since have received some sort of Win in a civil action but I doubt if it will ever fully cover their Issue with the builder/manufacturer of those cursed pods.

 

My sympathies to those that sailed and those that couldn't. Take your time and work your problems out with X in a civil manner. You can't change what happened at all and nobody would like to do that more than X I suspect.

 

Here's the entire press release.

 

The Third last paragraph is the important one.

 

 

MIAMI - (August 7, 2003) - After repeated attempts to resolve issues satisfactorily, Celebrity Cruises filed a $300 million lawsuit today against Rolls Royce and Alstom Power Conversion, co-producers of a ship pod-propulsion system, to recover lost revenue and costs associated with failing pods. The lawsuit was filed in state court in Miami-Dade County, Florida.

 

The lawsuit charges that the Rolls Royce and Alstom Power Conversion pods, brand-named Mermaid, have failed repeatedly, resulting in cancelled cruises and thousands of disappointed guests. These recurring failures cost the company hundreds of millions of dollars, for which the lawsuit seeks restitution.

 

The lawsuit further claims that Rolls Royce and Alstom Power Conversion misrepresented their product, which was “defectively designed” and “deceptively and fraudulently marketed.”

 

Mermaid pods are installed on four Celebrity ships -- Millennium, Summit, Infinity and Constellation. All four had one or more mechanical or electrical problems with the pods, which caused the ships to be taken out of water -- and out of service -- to repair.

 

“Unfortunately, the Mermaid pods have not lived up to the manufacturers’ promise or to Celebrity’s high operating standards,” said Jack Williams, president and chief operating officer of Celebrity. “This has created intolerable consequences for our guests, and imposed unacceptable conditions on our company.”

 

There are -- and have been -- no safety issues with any of these ships. All have been given clearance to sail by the U.S. Coast Guard and the ships’ classification society. Even with the problems, safety was never compromised.

 

“Guests and travel agents should continue to have full confidence in the Celebrity brand,” Williams said. “We have modified the more troublesome components, and we are working on a permanent solution.

 

“In the meantime, guests should know that any cruise we have to cancel, as a result of any issue with these pods, we will back with a full refund and a free cruise.”

 

Propulsion pods consist of an electrical motor and a propeller. They are typically favored by cruise operators because the pod’s design -- a 360 degree rotating unit -- provides a number of advantages, including greater maneuverability.

 

Celebrity Cruises is the industry’s highest-rated premium cruise line. Its nine ships comprise the youngest fleet of any major line.

[florisdekort]

It's clear that "Corperate" did not want to cancel this cruise as then they would HAVE to give everyone a free cruise that was aboard and the next weeks cancelled cruise also.

 

It is not clear at all. Your cruise was already under way when the pod problem popped up once again. Celebrity finished the cruise minus two ports, for which you deserve some compensation, but definately not a free cruise. That's totally absurd.

[florida_cruiser]

From Celebrity's press release 3 years ago:

 

“In the meantime, guests should know that any cruise we have to cancel, as a result of any issue with these pods, we will back with a full refund and a free cruise.”

 

Well I guess that says it all. They have committed to a refund + a free cruise if they cancel and no scheduled compensation if they cruise anyways. Can you say the bean counters were involved.

[magmagee]

I agree having your vacation disturbed is not fun. We're supposedly talking about this particular cruise and missing Sitka and Seattle. It's a shame those ports were missed, but having done this cruise before I wouldn't call the vacation ruined except for having to deal with the nuts on board. I'm sure most of those on board are having a wonderful time and were pleased to have the onboard credit. Yes, you are absolutely right that those who make the most noise are sometimes rewarded, but then they also have to live with themselves every day so I guess they need all the monetary compensation they can get.

 

I can not agree with you more. I was on this cruise and the thing that bothered me most was the thought that these people who were doing their best to ruin my cruise were possibly going to be compensated in some way. On one had we felt like signing but my conscience would not let me. The demands were selfish. If maybe for one second they could have been diplomatic in their search for signatures maybe we would have considered but I just can not discribe how their meetings were upsetting me. Way to loud and forceful. It was more like a well plan union takeover of the company. Way too much for me when here I was on a cruise to forget about violence that we have to watch everyday on tv. This might sound harsh but these are my feelings about the situation. Just being able to voice this has made me feel better because on the ship I felt like we were the only ones trying to forget the misssed ports. :o

[cechase]

Well I guess that says it all. They have committed to a refund + a free cruise if they cancel and no scheduled compensation if they cruise anyways. Can you say the bean counters were involved.

 

florida_cruiser, we note that you have made a large number of posts on these five combined posts, yet you have not really identified yourself. Were you on the Summit Cruise? Are you engaged or employed in the cruise industry, and if so in what capacity and for whom?

 

Finally, in all of your posts, you refer to a video. Please post the video on cruise critic so that we can all see it.

 

A full refund for a 13 day cruise, in which the pax had a cabin, cabin steward and asst., as well as all the food and service that they would desire, not to mention entertainment and the run of the vessel, including a number of ports. Isn't that somewhat overreaching?

[suitedreams]

There have been 697 posts to this thread (so far), approximately 575 have been by people who were NOT ON BOARD. It appears that about 23 people who were ON BOARD have posted the rest. Half of those posts were by just 4 people. I would find it difficult to say what the prevailing opinion was among those on the ship when only one percent have expressed themselves.

 

BTW, I was on the ship, I watched the video of the captain's meeting in the theater, I didn't see him "vote" for a full refund. Did I miss something?