I’m Onboard Celebrity Century – Got Any Questions?

[goofysmom99]

I haven't had a bad cruise yet. . .HAL, Celebrity, RCI, and Princess so far. Love them all. But I've noticed, as I just looked at my Travel & Leisure magazine, as one among many travel magazines, that it's the READERS, not Celebrity, that consistently rate X so high. So I guess a lot of people who read travel magazines and take the time to answer their polls must be having a good experience on Celebrity. I think Celebrity uses the results of these polls, but I doubt they're allowed to sponsor them. Just a thought.

 

I've really enjoyed this whole thread. We took the Baltic back in 1999 on the Maasdam and had a wonderful time. Definitely want to do it again and see how St Petersburg has changed. Our son, an Air Force pilot, had a hissy fit when we told him we wanted to fly to Moscow. So we acquiesced to his wishes that time. However, if we do the Baltic again, we're going to try the tour you took to Moscow. It sounded fantastic. Thanks for taking the time to tell us about it!

[ND Traveler]

C to C

I like your James Branch Cabell quote. I have one very similar, but I don't know the attributiom. It is "Hope springs eternal in the mind of a fool." I think this and your quote eptomizes my cruise on Celebty. I was the fool!

[editor@cruisecritic]

Enjoyed your insights, Jimsgirl.!

Funny thing, a few years back I boarded Silversea's Silver Whisper on a Venice to Rome cruise. I was (and am not so much more wealthy still) a poor but fortunate travel writer and was given the best suite onboard (there were several of the same size which actually matched the cottage I was then living in in Healdsburg, CA, in Sonoma County). Funny thing is that after all the caviar, fab room service, fantastic cabin stewardesses (who took my beleaugered Jockey underwear to the cleaners and returned with each, er, pair, hanging delicately from a hanger -- a treat!). my follow-up experience was a bit more "real".

Indeed, after this over-the-top and fantastic experience, I checked into a convent on Rome's Campo de' Fiori. The narrow twin bed and basic bathroom were quite the counterpoint and yet...offered a good, shall I say, perspective on the real world.

I'm hard pressed, to be honest, to admit to which experience gave me more joy. I loved being pampered by Silversea but, to be honest, felt more...at home in the convent. Alas, I met the man who would become my husband a year later. and so have not revisited my single-dom days.

But I still love the memory of the convent experience and, let me say to my DH, if you're not available for the next trip from Rome, well...I'd do the convent again. Happily.

Carolyn

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you so very much Carolyn . You are providing a very much needed service

As a "little old lady" travelling alone, I too have been given the same treatment as you received. (and not just on the ship, but in ship booked hotels/diningrooms - especially in Rome)

Think you must have got the same staff as was on Infinity the last time I sailed on that ship. The Maire D' shown that my omelet was running uncooked liquid all over the plate, told me "you should have asked for it to be well done"!!, instead of English Breakfast tea I got Camomile Herb tea, etc etc.

The Cova on that trip had no tablecloths, no menus, "did not serve tea, and only regular coffee" the one plate of 4 Danish looked very stale. A note to the officer in charge remained un answered, next day the Cova was the same - in fact thought the Danish were the same 4!!!.

Went to Reception, explained I wished to see O/i/c of Cova, told "He is very busy", Iinformed the staff that I would sit on the nearby seat "Until he comes no matter how long that may take" He came , looked about 19yrs old, wanted to talk there in public, but I insisted on going to his office (very polite ly but very firmly). His office was a mess, papers/files everywhere, on chair on floor, on cabinet etc. obviously very disorganized .

We had a very serious talk. Next day.NEW STAFF at the Cova, tablecloths, menus, all kinds of tea, all kinds of coffee, and a very wide selction of "goodies" all fresh and smelling wonderful.

Dining room did not improve, but on last night not one at my table gave the Maitre D' a tip and we even cut back on the tip we gave our very bad waiter.

 

Going on Infinity in Sept (25 days) and again in March (28 days) may dao 17 on Century Dec 2007Transatlantic

 

Keep up the good work of truthful reporting as a "regular passenger" .

[Host Anne]

Italian Guest ~ typically, LOL in internet language means "laugh out loud" or "laugh on line." Both mean the same thing. Meant to make someone laugh.

 

Carolyn ~ here's hoping we get to sail together again some day. I do try to give honest, usually upbeat info. But it's always important to report the not-so-good stuff, too. That's the only way we can get things to improve. Glad that the St. John info was useful. I'll see what else I can add after spending a week there in Feb.

[avalon1025]

This has been a great thread, though the fact that I have orgainized a group in March on the Infinity makes me a bit nervous. We have always had consistenly a good time on HAL, and the few Celebrity cruises (Millennium and Infinity), left us flat (we thought the crew was very cold, vs out other ships). I thought I'd give them another try (trying hard not to compare to our last few cruises on Seabourn and Silversea). I am going with no expectations, so hopefull we will have a good mass market experience.

 

Another thought, this past March we were on the Diamond Princess in New Zealand and also boarded with no expectations, aside from our aft suite smelling like garbage the entire cruise (we were compensated by Princess), the crew and dinning room was very surprising, we loved the crew and the food was very good.

[Jana]

Hi Doug,

 

No, they don't... It's open seating. Just as most open-seating ships, I imagine you can reserve a time and table, but as the whole dining room cannot seat everyone at once, you don't "own" your table like you do with true single-seating dining.

 

OK, I think I get it. But if you're at a table for four, or six, how do they handle that if you come in at different times? You just start whenever you get there, even if your tablemates are at dessert?

 

For a while Delphin had the former R SEVEN - they called her DELPHIN RENAISSANCE - and even managed to run that as a single-seating ship! How? Simple - the two alternative restaurants - the former steakhouse and Italian restaurant - became regular dining rooms instead. Hence, one sitting in three dining rooms.

 

In fact, most big, new ships could theoretically seat everyone all at once, or close to it, if you count in all the alternative restaurant space.

 

Theoretically, but one of the problems with really big ships, as opposed to the 760-ish passenger R ships, is that it's too "banquet style" as it is. A small ship can handle the requests coming in at different times, and cooking "a la minute," but it would be impossible to do for a ship with 3000 guests. (I have visions of bleached-out canned peas and completely limp string beans, and hocky-puck filet, yuck.) One of the things that makes smaller ships more enjoyable is that the dining experience is -or is supposed to be- more personal. It doesn't always work out that way, but that's the theory.

 

...for one thing, a lot of today's passengers want alternatives. And any how, main dining rooms are not revenue-generating space - extra-cost alternatives are!

 

Actually, every single cruise ship that offers alternative dining says that they LOSE money in the specialty restaurants. They do it for the ambiance, and for the more intimate experience, and because, as you said, people want something different on their cruises. The then-CEO of Disney cruises told me that the only reason they have a charge at all (and their $10 was about 1/10 of what a meal in their alternative restaurant would cost in a land-based restaurant) was for "capacity control."

 

I've asked whether they make money on upsells of wine and they all say "...not really. People who enjoy premium wines would choose it in the main dining room too."

 

Jana

[Jana]

Hi Avalon,

 

This has been a great thread, though the fact that I have orgainized a group in March on the Infinity makes me a bit nervous. We have always had consistenly a good time on HAL, and the few Celebrity cruises (Millennium and Infinity), left us flat (we thought the crew was very cold, vs out other ships). I thought I'd give them another try (trying hard not to compare to our last few cruises on Seabourn and Silversea). I am going with no expectations, so hopefull we will have a good mass market experience.

 

I know exactly what you mean. I was on Mercury last October, my first Celebrity cruise, and I couldn't get over feeling let down. The service was just OK, not notable, from the dining room to our steward. The officers were almost icy. The food was mediocre at best, and a couple of times, downright bad. There was nothing about that cruise that is memorable except for the ports we visited (oh, and the sushi guy who was charming and fun).

 

In January I was on Millennium, and the difference was 180 degrees. Happy staff, happy ship, charming room team and a "housekeeping manager" assigned to our floor who was visible and always making sure that everything was done well. The food was excellent. The ship, while big, was gorgeous. I loved everything about the ship and the cruise and wouldn't hesitate to sail on that class of ship again.

 

So I will, someday. I hope that it doesn't revert back to the first experience I had.

 

I agree with you (and Doug) about HAL. It isn't always perfect, but the mandate of everyone you meet is to personalize the experience for the guests. Carnival's stewards have classes on how to make towel animals. On HAL, they have classes for all hotel personnel on how to remember names and preferences, how to smile while looking a guest in the eye. Isn't that lovely?

 

Jana

[Two4Sea]

Sorry to bounce back towards the front of the thread but <BK>, if you’re still here from post 89, here’s some general thoughts on figuring out ports:

 

1. first, CruiseCritic’s port guides include general docking info.

 

2. Google “Port Authority” with the city name. This will find the Authority or links to it. Their site will have maps, perhaps under “facilities”, likely with berth numbers and usually indicating which ones are used for cruise ships. There will usually be a tab for the cruise business and this often has a cruise calendar with berth numbers and the name of the local agent. Be careful that assignments can and do change at the last minute. If there are several different docks for small and large ships a review of past trip reports for your line will usually allow figuring out which one they use. Indeed there are a few very strange locations. One of Stockholm’s docks is a rural train ride away. St Petersburg’s is deep inside a restricted industrial area. Some Authorities even have good aerial pictures for figuring where they are compared to the city and perhaps showing the cruise docks.

 

Then use Google Images for your port and “aerial”. This very quickly gives a broad orientation. On high speed internet, Google Earth is also very helpful although it isn’t as sharp. Then Google Image again for “map” and the city. You can then relate the aerial to the maps to see where the docks are and where the major sights are. Sometimes this brings up good tourist bureau maps, ideal for our purposes. I have also Googled for taxi fares to get a feel, Stockholm’s are about the most expensive in Europe.

 

With this info we walked all of our sightseeing at Tallinn and the return legs at Helsinki and Stockholm during our cruise on the old Noordam.

 

3. At Tallinn this pict http://www.portoftallinn.com/images/aeromaps/oldcity.jpg shows the docks and in the center, the red roofed Old Town only 15 minutes walk away.

 

4. For St Petersburg this very useful map came up http://www.ed.spb.ru/spb/map/map_full_big.jpg Note that the “Maritime Passenger Terminal” has not been the primary dock. Find the word “Seaport” and follow the dock along past the cranes all the way to the point at the left end on the same dockfront, this is called “Timber Dock” and was the principal passenger dock in the past. The entry gate is the bridge at the right end of the near island. Cabs are not allowed to wait inside and I wouldn’t walk the 2 mile distance more so with the trains switching in there. But I also see now that some ships have been docking part way up the river so things may have changed since my last visit.

 

Be careful of the suburban distances in this artistic map, those palaces at the bottom left are out in the countryside. In the City portion of the map it is 5 air miles from the passenger dock to the Hermitage.

 

For photos http://www.enlight.ru/camera/index_e.htm is a photographer’s outstanding personal album thoroughly covering all the attractions in the area. I also used it later to get the identification for some of the places we drove by.

 

Some asides, there is a long approach channel running past the G in Gulf on the map. At the near end is an old welcome sign that still says Leningrad. Select font “Universal Math 1 BT” in Microsoft Word, type LENINGRAD and you’ll get LENINGRAD as an approximate translation to the Russian spelling. Saint Petersburg however is CAHKT IIETEPBYG. Start by changing C, H, P to S, N, R. For some words the phonetic Russian is the same as English. CCCP on their old missiles is simply USSR in English, with the title Confederation replaced by Union. Years ago 4 of us on a train spent 10 mins of sign language asking for a drinking glass, when we simply said glass we got it.

 

...The Baltic is a great cruise route.

 

Bill

[ItalianGuest]

Italian Guest ~ typically, LOL in internet language means "laugh out loud" or "laugh on line." Both mean the same thing. Meant to make someone laugh.

 

 

Many thanks, :)

 

ItalianGuest

[sammiedawg]

Carolyn, you write so beautifully, I felt like I was on this trip. Thanks for taking so much time. Agree with many comments in this thread that Celebrity is not really better than other mass market lines despite their attempts to cultivate a more elite image

[Gitte]

Carolyn,

May I send you some information and pictures of our Baltic cruise by e-mail?

Gitte gitte107 hotmail.com

[RLM77]

Thanks for your insight Doug. It's a well thought out critique/comparison that rings true. We'll have to try a HAL cruise some day, though I am concerned by what I've read about the average age on the longer HAL cruises (we're both close to 50 +/-:)). Not to mention the theatrical performances by the service staff that seem to have become a standard feature of HAL dining...

 

We won't go back to the luxe lines anytime soon, although those lines address the issues you mention. We'd both much rather cruise 20-28 days per year instead of 14. Although I'm occasionally tempted and could probably stretch it if I really wanted to, two longer cruises on Regent, Crystal, etc. are too profligate for us. Plus, we just didn't think that the extras one receives on Regent, though real, were worth the mark-up.

 

Well, Celebrity's advertising and the real Celebrity are far apart from each other.

 

The advertising really makes one think it is a "premium" experience. It just isn't. It is absolutely a mass-market product, without question.

 

My recent cruise in ZENITH was excellent. But it was an excellent mass-market cruise. Not a "premium" cruise. Yes, the experience in the dining room was definitely worthy of a more expensive line - the service, too, not just the food - but elsewhere, it was merely a very good mass-market experience.

 

Celebrity relentlessly claims to be the best large-ship line. Not just good one, not just one of the best, but the best. That creates some awfully high expectations, ones I simply don't think they can meet. Part of it is that the competition is really good - it's not easy to be the best in a field where nobody is bad! But that said, if you look at their direct competitor, HAL... I think HAL's product is better. If nothing else, it is more consistent, and to me, it is more polished, more well-rounded. Celebrity seems to rely very, very heavily on that food to make them "the best". HAL's product is, to me, more balanced, and the "feel" is just nicer.

[avalon1025]

Don't worry about the age on HAL, its such a myth, any cruise over 7 days is going to get the same crowd, older than a shorter cruise. I've been sailing HAL all through my 20's and 30's and loved every cruise with them. There were just as many older passengers on Crystal, Celebrity and Princess than HAL (comparable number of days). HAL gives a consistent product, I have always felt I got what I paid for with HAL. Even their S cate suites are more resonably priced and come with lovely ammenities.

[dougnewmanatsea]

OK, I think I get it. But if you're at a table for four, or six, how do they handle that if you come in at different times? You just start whenever you get there, even if your tablemates are at dessert?

It depends.

 

If one party arrives, say, five or ten minutes late, then the service will be synchronized. For example: say I arrive at 8:00. You arrive at 8:10. My appetizer arrives at 8:10, just as you arrive. Your appetizer arrives at 8:20; by which time I'm finished. You finish at 8:30. Both our second courses arrive at 8:40, and from then on, we will be synchronized.

 

On the other hand, if there is a difference larger than, say, 15 minutes, the service will proceed on different schedules. If I arrived at 7, and by the time you arrive at 8:15, I'm on my main course, your appetizer will probably arrive at the same time as my dessert, at, say, 8:30.

 

In many cases, everyone at the table will decide the night before when they should arrive, so everyone arrives at the same time, and then service can proceed at the same pace for everyone.

 

It may sound complicated - and undoubtedly it is, for the stewards - but ultimately it all works out very nicely.

 

Theoretically, but one of the problems with really big ships, as opposed to the 760-ish passenger R ships, is that it's too "banquet style" as it is.

This is true. For a cruise ship, I consider anything with over 1,000 passengers to be larger than optimal. Today even ships in the 1,000-1,500 passenger range are becoming rare, but to me the ideal size is in the 400-800 passenger range.

 

Actually, every single cruise ship that offers alternative dining says that they LOSE money in the specialty restaurants.

I said revenue-generating, not profit-generating ;) !

 

But seriously, my view is that if they could make more money by not having alternative restaurants, they wouldn't have them.

 

We'll have to try a HAL cruise some day, though I am concerned by what I've read about the average age on the longer HAL cruises (we're both close to 50 +/-:)). Not to mention the theatrical performances by the service staff that seem to have become a standard feature of HAL dining...

I wouldn't worry about the age of the passengers. It has to do with the length of the cruise, time of year and itinerary more than anything else.

 

As for the theatrical performance... It sounds silly to me. I've yet to experience it. I'd be tempted to book alternative dining that night on my next HAL cruise, but I feel I ought to try it once just to be able to report honestly...

 

Is HAL perfect? Absolutely not. I wouldn't even go so far as to say that HAL is better than Celebrity. Ultimately, like Celebrity, HAL is also just a very good mass-market product (except, maybe, for the really long cruises - the Grand Voyages and World Cruises). I just prefer their "style".

[C 2 C]

Don't worry about the age on HAL, its such a myth, any cruise over 7 days is going to get the same crowd, older than a shorter cruise..

 

In my experience it's not a myth. I have always found passengers to be relatively older than myself on HAL cruises. If I compare my longer cruises on Celebrity, HAL or Princess (10 - 14 days), HAL continues to be older than the norm on others.

[editor@cruisecritic]

I'd love it, thanks Gitte. Send to me at editor@cruisecritic.com.

Carolyn

Carolyn,

May I send you some information and pictures of our Baltic cruise by e-mail?

 

Gitte gitte107 hotmail.com

[Jana]

But seriously, my view is that if they could make more money by not having alternative restaurants, they wouldn't have them.

 

I'm sure there are a lot of things the lines wish they didn't have to do.

 

Alternate dining started years and years ago, with NCL. They had their Bistro on even their smallest, creakiest ships. This long preceded Freestyle, or Personal Choice, or even the semi-nod to both of those programs with four dining times. It was different, it was charming, and it cost a $5 tip to use.

 

Now, though, as ships get bigger and more mass-market, the lines are finding that there needs to be some sort of accommodation made so guests have something of "their own;" cushier staterooms, romantic dining, affordable balconies... Carolyn and I have talked about this many times, in fact. The ships themselves are so huge and overwhelming for the most part that the alternative dining rooms just help cruise guests to feel special.

 

I have always found passengers to be relatively older than myself on HAL cruises. If I compare my longer cruises on Celebrity, HAL or Princess (10 - 14 days), HAL continues to be older than the norm on others.

 

There's old and then there's OLD! The "oldest" people I have ever cruised with are in their thirties, and some of the "youngest" are well into their eighties! My favorite was a 93-year-old pistol of a woman on my first Alaska cruise; there was nothing she wouldn't try.

 

The older HAL ships do tend to attract an older crowd; the Vistas are designed for "multi-generational families" and tend to skew younger.

 

Jana

[dougnewmanatsea]

I'm sure there are a lot of things the lines wish they didn't have to do.

Put it this way: what will happen if they get rid of the alternative restaurants?

 

People will book other lines, and thus, the line will lose money.

 

As I said, if they could really save money by not having them, they wouldn't have them.

 

Alternate dining started years and years ago, with NCL. They had their Bistro on even their smallest, creakiest ships.

Actually, the really small, creaky ships, the "White Ships", didn't have it.

 

I think "Le Bistro" was introduced on SEAWARD when she came out in 1988... Or was it NORWAY which was first to have this, back in 1980? I can't remember. I'm pretty sure SEAWARD was the first new ship built with it, anyway.

 

But they definitely did not have it on their "smallest, creakiest" ships. When the concept was introduced, they still had STARWARD, SKYWARD, SOUTHWARD and SUNWARD II; the "White Ships". Those never did get Le Bistro. Now, there was for a time a Mayan temple atop SKYWARD but that is another story! Of course, keep in mind that these were ships in the 14,000-16,000 ton range, and they didn't even have real Lido restaurants let alone Le Bistro. (But then, DREAMWARD and WINDWARD never had and as NORWEGIAN DREAM and WIND still don't have real Lidos, an utterly shocking oversight in ships built in the early 1990s.)

 

The "White Ships" were disposed of from 1991 to 1995 when STARWARD left the fleet and forever ended the era of these vessels which, in the pre-NORWAY era, completely defined NCL. And thus, for a very brief time in 1995-1996, every NCL ship had Le Bistro. That was until they inherited ROYAL ODYSSEY and STAR ODYSSEY in 1996! The latter was sold off but the former became NORWEGIAN STAR (I) and was retrofitted with Le Bistro. They carved a big piece out of her single-seating dining room; most of it became the casino but part became Le Bistro. So was the former CROWN ODYSSEY, which immediately became NORWEGIAN CROWN, unlike ROYAL ODYSSEY which retained her name and a split Royal Cruise Line/NCL identity through the summer of 1996 alongside the equally identity-challenged STAR ODYSSEY which became Fred. Olsen's BLACK WATCH later this year. Ironically, Olsen installed an alternative restaurant aboard BLACK WATCH which became their very first one to my knowledge, and indeed possibly the first one ever on a British-market cruise ship... But don't hold me to that.

 

All that said, I guess the last NCL ship to never have alternative dining was STAR ODYSSEY, which was in the fleet for less than a year in 1996, operating itineraries taken over from Royal Cruise Line, and which was basically operated in that company's manner rather than NCL's.

 

Well, maybe NORWEGIAN DYNASTY, 1997-1998 didn't have one either... I don't even know if I ever saw a brochure including her, she was in the fleet so briefly! But either way, the last "real" NCL ship - not inhereted from someone else - to be sans Bistro was undoubtedly STARWARD. She was also one of the longest-serving ships in NCL history, 1968-1995. In fact, I don't think any other NCL ship has beaten that record to date.

 

The same people, Kloster Cruise, who owned NCL also owned Royal Viking line from 1984 to 1994 and the one purpose-built RVL ship built during the Kloster era, ROYAL VIKING SUN of 1988, also had an alternative restaurant. It was run by, and I think named after, some famous chef whom I don't remember. It was an extra-cost affair and this caused much consternation among RVL passengers who pointed out that they were already paying very high fares for what RVL claimed was the best cruise product in the world, so they shouldn't be charged for an alternative restaurant. Indeed, that charge rather implied that the alternative was superior to the food in the main dining room (and perhaps it was), not a good thing for a cruise line already claiming that the food served aboard their ships, all the food, was the best in the world. This concept was quickly withdrawn in favor of Venizia, a no-extra-charge Italian alternative. This remained through the Cunard and Seabourn (SEABOURN SUN) years and didn't go until the space was commandeered for an expanded Lido when she became HAL's PRINSENDAM; the alternative restaurant was relocated to surplus dining room space no longer needed now that the ship had become two-seating. (I think I mentioned in a previous post - or maybe it was on the HAL board? - that she was to my knowledge the very largest ship ever built for true single-seating dining; the original main dining room took up virtually an entire deck and could seat all her 800 or so passengers at once.)

 

All that said, NCL and RVL were not such great alternative dining pioneers anyway. Indeed, others had already been doing for decades. No, alternative dining was not a new idea begun with NCL's Le Bistro... It was merely an old idea resurrected. The first alternative restaurant that I know of was all the way back in 1905 aboard HAPAG's AMERIKA. (HAPAG was also sometimes known as Hamburg-America Line; HAPAG is an abbreviation for the firm's full name, Hamburg-Amerika Packetschiffahrts Aktein Gesselschaft which roughly translates as the Hamburg-America Packet Ship Navigation Joint-Stock Company.) This was The Grill Room, an extra-cost restaurant for first-class passengers, managed by César Ritz and his chef, Auguste Escoffier. This idea was copied on several subsequent HAPAG vessels.

 

By no means was this innovation exclusive to HAPAG; other lines chartered it as well. For example, similarly, both the original Cunard QUEENs, MARY and ELIZABETH, had the Verandah Grill which was again an extra-cost alternative for first-class passengers. This continued with the Grill Room aboard QE2, what is now the Princess Grill and again... It was an extra-cost alternative for first-class passengers who were normally assigned to the Columbia Restaurant. This went the way of the dodo sometime in the 1970s, when it became a regular restaurant two which the people in the best first-class cabins were assigned; this was the "Grill Class" we know today. At that point, Cunard ships became alternative-restaurant-free until 1994 when the aforementioned ROYAL VIKING SUN was purchased, and also the Tivoli alternative restaurant was added to VISTAFJORD the same year, giving them two ships with alternatives (but still not QE2, and she lacks one to this day).

 

So suffice it to say, the idea of alternative dining is hardly a new one, and was definitely not thought up by NCL, or maybe it was and they just didn't realise that others had thought of it before them. I don't know... Either way it's been around for 101 years and counting. It's just gotten a lot more popular lately.

 

Now, though, as ships get bigger and more mass-market, the lines are finding that there needs to be some sort of accommodation made so guests have something of "their own;" cushier staterooms, romantic dining, affordable balconies...

Hmm, well, yes, I suppose this is true. But it also has to do with attracting people who are new to cruising and just don't like traditional dining, and would be bored by the same thing every night.

[Summerlin]

Hi. My wife and I were also on the Century July 21-August 2. I have to admit that I haven't read all 18 pages of this thread yet. Just wanted to mention some of our highlights of the cruise.

 

1. Murano restaurant--we went three times, and on the last night of the cruise, the restaurant was mainly filled with "frequent flyer" returners.

The service, staff, and food were all superb. Staff was amazing, felt like we were old friends by the time we came for our second meal. And they served special meals for the 2nd and 3rd visits (not just the 3rd, which is what I've read about before.)

 

What was nice about Murano was its small size and intimacy. We have been at the SS United States on Infinity, and they seat about 125 people at the SS US. The Murano has only 65 seats. As such, the Maitre D and staff have much more time to spend at each table side, cooking, chatting, etc.

 

2. Cruise Director Allain King--at first we thought he was a little over the hill and my wife an I were worried that we chose the wrong ship. (My wife and I are both in our young 30s).

 

But we LOVED Allain. He is from Scotland and is hilarious.

 

Don't miss seeing him sing and tell "jokes" in Michael's Club.

 

3. Aqua Spa--nicely remade. However, we really felt that the Persian Gardens were a complete waste of space. No one ever used them--all they have are showers and a sauna and steam room. Every single time we walked by there, the room was empty.

 

The Spa Cafe was excellent. Usually staffed by the Murano wait staff. SO, they usually knew us already when we were there.

 

 

As for the LCD screens on the fitness machines that Celebrity advertises on the internet--they don't work! When we asked why, we were told that the satellite system they use is functional when closer to the USA.

 

4. Concierge class benefits--not as great as on Infinity. The towels were supposedly better than the regular towels, but we thought they had too much fabric softener--they didn't dry you off!

 

There was NO pillow menu onboard. We were told by our room attendant that that was for the future.

 

The fruit and flowers in room were nothing great.

There was better fruit in the spa cafe two floors above us.

 

5. Entertainment--the three shows by the Century singers and dancers were well above our expectations.We were very pleasantly surprised.

 

Onboard activities during the days at sea were very dull--not much to do at all. They had occasional trivia and bingo, but not much else.

 

Maybe some European history lectures would have been nice. The only discussions they had onboard about the ports were about the SHOPPING, and Alain, the cruise director, did give some tidbits about highlights in the cities, but this was stuff you could find in any travel book.

 

Some history and perspective would have been nice.

 

Well, that's all for now.We'll keep watch on this thread and add more as we see appropriate.

 

Daniella and Keith

Las Vegas

[Jana]

I'm sorry, Doug.

 

Your knowledge is so extensive and so arcane, and mine is so... mass market, that it's just silly for me to posit any more theories or to attempt to have a meaningful discussion about any of these things.

 

I am grateful to you for pointing out where I have erred and for the history lesson. Yes, it was Seaward I was talking about, and yes, circa 1992 - 1993, and it made quite a splash back then. But... I am just a mass-market kinda gal, not a maritime historian like you, and of course had no knowledge of Hapag's alternate dining options since it was hardly a North American mass-market line at the time.

 

I stand corrected. Thank you.

 

Jana

[dougnewmanatsea]

I'm sorry, Doug.

 

Your knowledge is so extensive and so arcane, and mine is so... mass market, that it's just silly for me to posit any more theories or to attempt to have a meaningful discussion about any of these things.

No, no reason to apologize!

 

It's never too late to learn this stuff.

 

I don't know why I called AMERIKA's alternative restaurant The Grill Room in my post above - it was of course the Ritz-Carlton Restaurant, named after Ritz's hotels in Paris (the Ritz) and London (the Carlton). This was before there were any hotels called "Ritz-Carlton", the first of which was the one in Boston in 1927.

 

You were certainly correct about NCL introducing the concept to the modern cruise industry - I don't know if they even knew someone else had done it before!

 

Yes, it was Seaward I was talking about, and yes, circa 1992 - 1993, and it made quite a splash back then.

Didn't she have it when she was built in 1988?

 

I am going to have to go look at my pre-construction deck plans now.

 

Either way, alternative restaurant or no alternative restaurant, she was (is) an absolutely awful ship! I sailed in her in 1996... My one and only NCL cruise. What a piece of crap! Food and service were OK, but the ship... Horrid.

 

In Tortola, we went over to visit WINDWARD which was alongside next to us at the newly-built pier there. Not a bad ship. (Except for that perplexing lack of a Lido, anyway.) Actually, a rather nice ship. NCL put an end to that when they "stretched" her, adding lots and lots of cabins and... Well, not much else.

 

I had to laugh when Laura described her cabin aboard ZENITH as being small - SEAWARD's standard cabins, now those were small as you undoubtedly remember if you ever had the misfortune of occupying one! And cheaply furnished, hideously decorated, just completely awful in every way... Like the rest of the ship, I might add. Instead of artwork in the stairways, they had big posters advertising the shops, the casino, the spa etc. Tacky!

 

of course had no knowledge of Hapag's alternate dining options since it was hardly a North American mass-market line at the time.

Well... Was there such a thing as a North American mass-market line in 1905 ;) ? Given all the immigrants they carried in steerage (including one who would go on to become my great-grandfather), HAPAG was probably about as close as one could get!

 

The alternative restaurant was merely one of a wide variety of HAPAG innovations. Their Director, Albert Ballin, was legendary for his commitment to customer satisfaction and was constantly devising new ways to please his passengers. Even his third-class passengers were treated as customers whose satisfaction was important. Ballin could often be seen walking around his ships making notes on areas that could be improved.

 

The peak of his career were the "Big Three" the biggest ships in the world, beginning with IMPERATOR in 1913. At a stunning 52,000 tons, she would have dwarfed the previous record-holder, TITANIC, had that ship not already sank!

 

She was actually shorter than the smaller AQUITANIA, being built at the same time, but in order to secure her position as longest, Ballin had a giant gilded eagle fitted to her bow, clutching a globe with a banner reading, "Mein Field ist die Welt" ("My Field is the World"). This secured her position as the longest ship. Alas, the wings broke off in heavy seas and the entire thing was soon removed, however the figure for the ship's length was never adjusted in HAPAG advertising!

 

She was soon surpassed by her even bigger sister, VATERLAND in 1914, and 1915 was supposed to bring the BISMARCK, biggest of all at a whopping 56,000 tons. Alas, this did not happen because of the outbreak of WWI. After the war, all three ships went to Allied hands, IMPERATOR becoming Cunard's BERENGARIA, VATERLAND United States Lines' LEVIATHAN, and the as-yet-unlaunched BISMARCK was completed as White Star's flagship, MAJESTIC in 1922. This was the biggest ship in the world until NORMANDIE.

 

Ballin was so distraught to see his life's work at building a world-class German passenger fleet destroyed that he committed suicide. A new HAPAG ship, launched in 1924, was named ALBERT BALLIN in his honor. However, the ship was renamed HANSA in 1935 at the insistence of the **** government as Ballin was Jewish. She remained as such until after the war when she was given to the Soviets as reparation and became SOVETSKIY SOYUZ, continuing as such until 1981, one of a large number of elderly German liners that made up a considerable part of the Soviet fleet immediately after the war.

 

Today, HAPAG's successors, Hapag-Lloyd (formed by the merger of HAPAG and Norddeutscher Lloyd, the other major German trans-Atlantic shipping line), make a very big deal of Albert Ballin in their advertising (though they leave out the bit about his suicide, and the renaming of "his" ship...) on account of his having "invented cruising" according to their claim. According to the company's official web site:

Albert Ballin "invents" the cruise, thereby discovering a gap in the market.

 

On January 22nd 1891, the "Augusta Victoria" steams from Cuxhaven to the Mediterranean providing the first cruise.

 

In 1890, North German Lloyd had – exceptionally, as the shipping line emphasized – withdrawn a steamship from its schedule to send on a short excursion to the Norwegian fjords.

 

But at Hapag, Albert Ballin was more ambitious. His line's large and luxurious flagship, the fast steamship "Augusta Victoria", lay useless in the roads in winter.

 

Travellers shunned the North Atlantic in the stormy season. Ballin suggested sending the "Augusta Victoria" on an extended cruise to the Mediterranean and the Orient. This trip was also to include well-organised shore excursions. Ballin's fellow directors regarded this "sea voyage for pleasure" as a simply idiotic idea. But Ballin energetically promoted his project and eventually had his way, confounding all the critics. The first "cruise", in which he himself took part, proved to be a resounding success and revealed a glaring gap in the market.

The claim to "inventing the cruise" is also made by P&O. According to the P&O web site:

It is said that P&O Cruises "invented" cruising. In the 1880s the Orient Line and the North of Scotland company, both later to be taken over by P&O Cruises, pioneered modern-style cruises, and in 1904 P&O Cruises offered its first cruise holiday programme, a first class only cruise with shore excursions arranged by Thomas Cook. The tour used the 23-year-old liner Rome, renaming her ‘Vectis’ in her new role as a "cruising yacht."

[<BK>]

Hi Bill:

 

I decided to check this thread one more time before my wife (also a Canadian) and I leave for Amsterdam. Glad I did! You've provided some great information and, better yet, a few excellent information-gathering strategies. I'm a big fan of Google Earth but never though about using it to get a better handle of the docks' location relative to that of the city centers.

 

We decided to book a tour in SP with a private company (Alla) and do the rest on our own. Clealy, both Oslo and Tallinn are within easy walking distance from the ship and, based on Julie Gribben's fine CC review of her June voyage on the Century, many of the other cities may be reachable on foot (i.e., roughly a half hour). Needless to say, we love to walk.

 

Interesting that you are in Vancouver. Our first choice for a vacation, this summer (and last) has been Victoria, but we've never been able to book one of the timeshares there through RCI. Booking the Century was our contingency plan!

 

Thanks again.

 

Bill

 

Sorry to bounce back towards the front of the thread but <BK>, if you’re still here from post 89, here’s some general thoughts on figuring out ports:

 

...The Baltic is a great cruise route.

 

Bill

[editor@cruisecritic]

...about others trips on the same voyage. Glad it went well for you both -- and I agree that Murano was fabulous....

Carolyn

 

 

 

Hi. My wife and I were also on the Century July 21-August 2. I have to admit that I haven't read all 18 pages of this thread yet. Just wanted to mention some of our highlights of the cruise.

 

1. Murano restaurant--we went three times, and on the last night of the cruise, the restaurant was mainly filled with "frequent flyer" returners.

The service, staff, and food were all superb. Staff was amazing, felt like we were old friends by the time we came for our second meal. And they served special meals for the 2nd and 3rd visits (not just the 3rd, which is what I've read about before.)

 

What was nice about Murano was its small size and intimacy. We have been at the SS United States on Infinity, and they seat about 125 people at the SS US. The Murano has only 65 seats. As such, the Maitre D and staff have much more time to spend at each table side, cooking, chatting, etc.

 

2. Cruise Director Allain King--at first we thought he was a little over the hill and my wife an I were worried that we chose the wrong ship. (My wife and I are both in our young 30s).

 

But we LOVED Allain. He is from Scotland and is hilarious.

 

Don't miss seeing him sing and tell "jokes" in Michael's Club.

 

3. Aqua Spa--nicely remade. However, we really felt that the Persian Gardens were a complete waste of space. No one ever used them--all they have are showers and a sauna and steam room. Every single time we walked by there, the room was empty.

 

The Spa Cafe was excellent. Usually staffed by the Murano wait staff. SO, they usually knew us already when we were there.

 

 

As for the LCD screens on the fitness machines that Celebrity advertises on the internet--they don't work! When we asked why, we were told that the satellite system they use is functional when closer to the USA.

 

4. Concierge class benefits--not as great as on Infinity. The towels were supposedly better than the regular towels, but we thought they had too much fabric softener--they didn't dry you off!

 

There was NO pillow menu onboard. We were told by our room attendant that that was for the future.

 

The fruit and flowers in room were nothing great.

There was better fruit in the spa cafe two floors above us.

 

5. Entertainment--the three shows by the Century singers and dancers were well above our expectations.We were very pleasantly surprised.

 

Onboard activities during the days at sea were very dull--not much to do at all. They had occasional trivia and bingo, but not much else.

 

Maybe some European history lectures would have been nice. The only discussions they had onboard about the ports were about the SHOPPING, and Alain, the cruise director, did give some tidbits about highlights in the cities, but this was stuff you could find in any travel book.

 

Some history and perspective would have been nice.

 

Well, that's all for now.We'll keep watch on this thread and add more as we see appropriate.

 

Daniella and Keith

Las Vegas

[scapel]

Bill,

We did this tour in 2000 and I think I remember that there was no port that was in walking distance from the center of the town.

In Helsinki we took the ship shuttle and then booked a local double decker red bus for a tour which was quite a bit cheaper than the ships and went to the same things. I enjoyed the local walk around better than the red bus tour. Sibilus monument ??. Copper top church somewhere. Viking ship museum. I could have skipped.

Even in Tallin it was a short ride but I wouldn’t want to walk it.

Oslo-Ski jump and the Park forgot the name. I’d skip the jump and do the park where the statues were. Use a cab and spend more time there.

We used the Frommers or Fodors walking tours which worked nice in Tallin.

Stockholm, I can’t remember 100%, but we did do the Vasa Museum (ship tour) there but one could get a cab to do this. Rest was a self guided walking around Gamla Stan..We didn’t use a Guide book, but it probably would be better.

Of course you are correct with St. Pete, use local guide service.

Just correlate this with your other information since I’m doing this from memory, and I might have some stuff confused.

Shame on Celebrity for charging local shuttle charges—Get a group and check the cabs.

[Two4Sea]

Hello Host Doug,

 

Also joining in the “Firsts” contest is Canadian Pacific. They needed to deliver their 3 new Empress liners from Liverpool to Hong Kong for the inauguration of service across the Pacific to Vancouver. So in their 1890 promotional booklet they offered “Around the World Globe Circling Excursions”. The Empress of India left on Feb 8 1891, spent Mar 16 to Apr 7 at Hong Kong for a bit of touch up and arrived at Vancouver on Apr 28. The excursionists completed their journey on included tickets for the transcontinental train to the east coast and the steamer of their choice back to England. Contract mail from Yokahama got to London in 26 days, on May 13. I think that makes 94 days all tolled. Although this wasn’t an around the world cruise I wonder if it was the first around the world excursion? For a long time one of CPR’s boasts was that they offered all forms of transportation and circled the globe.

 

And of course 10 years later CPR’s British Columbia coastal liners took junior names in the “Princess” series and we all know who adopted their corporate name from a 1965 charter of one of those ships.

 

Bill