World's Largest Cruise Ship a Shared Honor

[negc]

I don't think I'm alone in thinking that the West Coast market would support a Voyager class ship. We have switched to Princess for our Mexico cruises................along with many others who like the idea of cruising without flying.................as the Princess ships are newer and bigger. If Royal Caribbean had a bigger/better ship we most certainly would cruise with RCI. There's alot of West Coast cruisers who I'm sure would agree with me.

 

If you don't think that RCI executives have analyzed this scenario very carefully, I believe you underestimate them. Even if the West coast market could support a Voyager class ship, there is the problem of getting it to the West Coast, plus the lack of adequate drydock facilities for a Voyager size ship. When you add to that their success in convincing those in the West Coast market to travel East to sail on Voyager ships, is it difficult to understand why they are not prepared to make such a commitment. Then when you consider the limited itineraries for the ship to do seven day cruises as compared to what the many different itineraries they can do from East coast ports with well-booked ships, you might understand that bringing a Voyager class ship to the West coast is not likely to happen in the foreseeable future. This is a case where "wishing will not make it so".:)

[MBeamTX]

Just how many berths can the Caribbean market support?? Two more Freedom class ships plus Genesis by 2009? I'm sure RCI figures they have customers to fill the ships, but how many people can the islands absorb? St. Thomas, Nassau, Ocho Rios, Cozumel, St. Maarten - they're all so over-saturated it's not funny. I feel like I can't even tell which island I'm on anymore, because whichever direction you turn you see a Diamonds International sign and a crush of sunburned tourists beneath it.

 

And which of the other islands are reachable on a 7-day cruise out of Florida and able to support the behemoth ships? Any guesses? I'm really wondering where all of these ships and all of the people they carry will go.

 

I love to cruise, but for me the ship is becoming more and more the destination in itself. Although I also wish there were more options for cruising to Mexico from the West Coast. I'm just not interested in sailing on Vision.

 

Susan

[negc]

I love to cruise, but for me the ship is becoming more and more the destination in itself. Although I do wish there were more options for cruising to Mexico from the West Coast. But that's not really an option for the new, too-big-for-the-Canal ships, is it?

 

Susan

No it isn't, but some of the larger ships are being shifted to other debarkation ports in the US and are spending a good portion of the year in Europe. As more Freedom and Genesis ships are introduced into the Caribbean, they may shift even more of their Voyager and Radiance class ships to other ports. Radiance class ships can do longer and more exotic itineraries, and the west coast might support one of them on a Mexican riviera itinerary. As the cruiselines continue to build more and larger ships, they must have some confidence that they can continue growing the pool of first time and repeat cruisers. There is still a relatively small percentage of the population who have taken a cruise, and not all of those who haven't cruised have made a conscious decision not to cruise, so there should still be a large number of non-cruisers who are potential customers.:)

[suzyluvs2cruise]

And those first time cruisers need to see a better ship. I know several people who cruised on the Vision of the Seas and were not impressed with Royal Caribbean. If RCI wants to captures more 1st time cruisers on the West Coast they do need to look at giving the Mexico itinerary a better ship. A Radiance class ship would definitely be a welcome step up from Vision class.

[cruisenfever]

Where do you come up with these things? :confused: Freedom and Liberty will both sail out of Miami doing alternating eastern and western itineraries. Liberty will sail on Saturdays and Freedom on Sundays. I hope that their press release has finally eliminated your professed doubts about a third Freedom class ship being built. The third Freedom ship, if I were to hazard a guess, will most likely be based in San Juan and sail an itinerary similar to the Adventure's, but it would be far more likely to base it in Port Liberty than to have it sail the S. Pacific.:eek:

Bill, do you secretly work for RCI, by any chance?? LOL You are just a wealth of correct information. I really enjoy reading your posts, cause I know that they are accurate.;)

[rubrrick]

That's why I have let RCCL know we could have a great cruise from San Diego or even LA to the S Pacific. 5 days at sea to enjoy what we have to play with without rushing as we do on a W Carib cruise. Then the 3-4 lovely islands & fly home from Papette. Very relaxing too.......

 

4 days at sea gets you to Hawaii...........try a little more if you want to head south. Maybe 7 to Pago Pago, American Samoa.

 

I think that the capital of Tahiti is spelled............Papeete.

 

Brenda..............your suggestion is good, and I see that HAL does it once or twice a year.........and Princess has the Tahitian Princess there for a 7 day cruise.

 

We have done the Society Islands and Fiji and Samoa and actually most of the south pacific..............except Australia and New Zealand. That is coming up for us.........and we would love to be on an RCCL ship for that. But I think it will be a smaller ship, like the Legend of the Seas.

 

Rick

[negc]

Bill, do you secretly work for RCI, by any chance?? LOL You are just a wealth of correct information. I really enjoy reading your posts, cause I know that they are accurate.;)

 

Thanks for the kind words. I do not work for RCI but it is my preferred line, although if you have read some of my more recent posts about our cancelled 2007 Jewel transatlantic, you might question that self-description.:D Have been cruising since 1980 and try to read up on the lastest happenings in the cruise industry. In the years that I have been on these boards and I have learned a lot and whenever I have information that I think can help or if I read something that is grossly inaccurate (such as some of the posts on this thread), I tend to respond, hopefully with some degree of accuracy.:)

[cruisenfever]

Thanks for the kind words. I do not work for RCI but it is my preferred line, although if you have read some of my more recent posts about our cancelled 2007 Jewel transatlantic, you might question that self-description.:D Have been cruising since 1980 and try to read up on the lastest happenings in the cruise industry. In the years that I have been on these boards and I have learned a lot and whenever I have information that I think can help or if I read something that is grossly inaccurate (such as some of the posts on this thread), I tend to respond, hopefully with some degree of accuracy.:)

Well, you are a wealth of knowledge and information. I have followed many of your posts and have enjoyed every one of them. BTW, wasn't Mary (aka thecruisechick) on your 2007 Jewel TA? We are doing the Splendour TA with her in April of 2008 and she was telling us of all the chaos that was caused by keeping the Jewel in Europe and announcing it after the itineraries were published and bookings were being taken. Have you eve gotten the feeling that at RCI, the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing??

[DJan07]

I have heard within the recent weeks that the Panama Canal will be expanded. I'm pretty sure the dimensions haven't been released, but do you think a Voyager Class ship to the West Coast could be more plausible if the Canal is expanded? I understand that this massive project and will take years to complete. Do you think RCI might consider putting a Voyager Class ship there if this happens? With the newer and much larger ships being built all of RCI's ship can't stay in the Caribbean, right? Or are there THAT many people interested in cruising from Florida? Thoughts?

 

Derek

[cruisenfever]

Bill, this is off the subject, but it has to do with accuracy. When we did the PC cruise in April of 2004 (we were doing westbound transit), I was sitting at a table with some of our CC buds as we were cruising on Gatum Lake. They had left sheets in our cabins about the different locks and some of the facts about cruising through the canal. We were all talking about how amazing it was to be raised onto Gatum from the Atlantic (Caribbean) side and then lowered onto the Pacific side. Well, there was a guy that sat down at our table and argued with us for over an hour that those sheets were incorrect and that one ocean was higher than the other.:eek: Never did ask him which ocean was was higher!!;) I wonder where he did his research??

[negc]

Well, you are a wealth of knowledge and information. I have followed many of your posts and have enjoyed every one of them. BTW, wasn't Mary (aka thecruisechick) on your 2007 Jewel TA? We are doing the Splendour TA with her in April of 2008 and she was telling us of all the chaos that was caused by keeping the Jewel in Europe and announcing it after the itineraries were published and bookings were being taken. Have you eve gotten the feeling that at RCI, the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing??

 

Mary was booked on the Jewel TA as were we. She and her husband are now booked on the Constellation transatlantic instead. My wife and Mary both found this cruise and decided it was a better deal than any of the options that RCI was offering. :)

 

I agree with you and have said the same thing about RCI a number of times, most recently when they released their new brochures the same week that they let it be known that the 2007 Canada/New England sailings that appear in the book wouldn't be happening. Last year it was printing the brochures without deck plans over the objection of their marketing department, TAs and most RCI fans. And don't get me started about customer service representatives who would rather come up with a fanciful (and totally incorrect) answer to your question rather than admit that they don't know the answer but will find out and get back to you.:rolleyes:

 

Despite those shortcomings, however, they still deliver the best cruise experience for people like me.:)

[nlcentralchmps03]

I'm wondering if having Explorer run out of the NE is a test to see how well they can fill the big ships up there. My bet is similar to yours, but maybe they'll keep the newest ships in Miami and bump Freedom to Pt Canaveral or Bayonne. Ahhh, 'tis fun to speculate!!!

 

T

I am up for moving Freedom to Port Canaveral!

[excitedofharpenden]

Bill, this is off the subject, but it has to do with accuracy. When we did the PC cruise in April of 2004 (we were doing westbound transit), I was sitting at a table with some of our CC buds as we were cruising on Gatum Lake. They had left sheets in our cabins about the different locks and some of the facts about cruising through the canal. We were all talking about how amazing it was to be raised onto Gatum from the Atlantic (Caribbean) side and then lowered onto the Pacific side. Well, there was a guy that sat down at our table and argued with us for over an hour that those sheets were incorrect and that one ocean was higher than the other.:eek: Never did ask him which ocean was was higher!!;) I wonder where he did his research??

I'm lucky enough to be cruising with Bill and many other disappointed Jewel TAers on Constellation next year and am glad it has worked out for them all. There's a huge roll call already. And I too enjoy reading posts with the facts.

 

Oh and cruisenfever, I need to break something to you;) Your man at the dinner table was right. The Pacific is actually on average about 9 inches higher than the Atlantic around the Panama Canal area because of the weather patterns and the sea water is less dense. Not enough of a difference to require locks the size of those in the Panama Canal though, so I guess you were both right!:)

 

Phil

[Ericknow32]

Then when you consider the limited itineraries for the ship to do seven day cruises as compared to what the many different itineraries they can do from East coast ports with well-booked ships, you might understand that bringing a Voyager class ship to the West coast is not likely to happen in the foreseeable future. This is a case where "wishing will not make it so".:)

I do not accept this excuse. The dry dock excuse, ahhh I'll give it to you. The trip over excuse, I don't think it would be a problem but whatever. However, the lack of itineraries excuse is just plain out ridiculous. Most ships only sail one or two itineraries. I can give you many itineraries. Hawaii, Mexican Riviera, exotic Mexican Riviera.

 

How many Itineraries has the Freedom of the Seas been doing? Yeah one. Having many options doesn't mean squat because RCI doesn't use them.

 

I think a Voyager Class ship will be here sooner than later. I think the sailings to South America is setting up the way. With all of these ships coming out they are going to have to find a place for them.

 

I will say this. There is no way a Voyager Class ship will be sailing the south pacific. And if they did bring a Voyager Class ship over to do the South Pacific I would be irate.

[rubrrick]

I do not accept this excuse. The dry dock excuse, ahhh I'll give it to you. The trip over excuse, I don't think it would be a problem but whatever. However, the lack of itineraries excuse is just plain out ridiculous. Most ships only sail one or two itineraries. I can give you many itineraries. Hawaii, Mexican Riviera, exotic Mexican Riviera.

 

How many Itineraries has the Freedom of the Seas been doing? Yeah one. Having many options doesn't mean squat because RCI doesn't use them.

 

I think a Voyager Class ship will be here sooner than later. I think the sailings to South America is setting up the way. With all of these ships coming out they are going to have to find a place for them.

 

I will say this. There is no way a Voyager Class ship will be sailing the south pacific. And if they did bring a Voyager Class ship over to do the South Pacific I would be irate.

 

 

Not having traveled on the Vision...........I don't know her condition.

I was last aboard the Jewel..........and loved her, and would think that the Radiance class would be a good move to upgrade the fleet on the West Coast.

Eric...........do you invision a Voyager class ship to take over for the Monarch? As you know, she goes out, almost full.......to full, twice a week.........and is one of the major money makers for RCCL, as the Sovereign is on the other coast.

 

Rick

[Beetulz]

Here is some information regarding the proposal to add another lane to the Panama canal:

 

A plan for the canal

 

SOURCES: World Book Encyclopedia; Dictionary of American History; The World Almanac; SOURCE: PANAMA CANAL AUTHORITY, NASA

 

July 31, 2006

 

 

A $5.2-billion proposal to add a third lane to the Panama Canal to accommodate today's larger vessels is moving ahead.

 

A referendum on the project was approved earlier this month by the country's General Assembly; voting is to take place in October.

 

Ships today must be less than 105 feet wide and 965 feet long to fit through the canal's locks. The proposed locks could handle vessels that are 161 feet wide and 1,201 feet long.

 

If approved by Panama's voters and completed as planned, the new locks would be ready in 2014.

[negc]

I do not accept this excuse. The dry dock excuse, ahhh I'll give it to you. The trip over excuse, I don't think it would be a problem but whatever. However, the lack of itineraries excuse is just plain out ridiculous. Most ships only sail one or two itineraries. I can give you many itineraries. Hawaii, Mexican Riviera, exotic Mexican Riviera.

 

How many Itineraries has the Freedom of the Seas been doing? Yeah one. Having many options doesn't mean squat because RCI doesn't use them.

 

I think a Voyager Class ship will be here sooner than later. I think the sailings to South America is setting up the way. With all of these ships coming out they are going to have to find a place for them.

 

I will say this. There is no way a Voyager Class ship will be sailing the south pacific. And if they did bring a Voyager Class ship over to do the South Pacific I would be irate.

 

You'll notice that the South America sailings are on one of the smaller Vision class ships, and while Freedom is currently doing only one itinerary and next year will add another, those itineraries are the most commonly booked in the Caribbean. It sails year round at or near capacity. And sailing from the East Coast allows them, should it become desirable to shift to another itinerary, to easily do so. Not so many options on the West coast, which has limited 7 day itineraries and doesn't even support most larger ships year round. I am sure initially, Voyager ships would be well received on the West coast, but I think that RCI would need convincing that they could maintain that interest for any length of time, especially since West coast cruisers show little reluctance to fly East to sail on those ships. Why move the ship West when its likely passengers will travel East? Voyager ships are sailing the Caribbean from Florida, San Juan, and New York on a regular basis and are also sailing in Europe for nearly half the year. I'm glad that you agree with me on the ridiculous notion that Voyager should sail to the South Pacific and I believe that such a suggestion would be laughed out of the RCI headquarters should it be raised.

 

I know that RCI officials have looked and continue to look at bringing newer and larger ships to the West Coast, but I think that the factors which would make such a move not cost effective, need to be acknowledged and dealt with before it can be done. I just see it being done later than sooner for the reasons I have mentioned.

[cruisenfever]

Oh and cruisenfever, I need to break something to you;) Your man at the dinner table was right. The Pacific is actually on average about 9 inches higher than the Atlantic around the Panama Canal area because of the weather patterns and the sea water is less dense. Not enough of a difference to require locks the size of those in the Panama Canal though, so I guess you were both right!:)

 

Phil

Thanks Phil for the info. Being that the Pacific is much deeper than the Atlantic, 9 inches really doesn't make a difference, does it?? ;)

[negc]

Here is some information regarding the proposal to add another lane to the Panama canal:

 

A plan for the canal

 

SOURCES: World Book Encyclopedia; Dictionary of American History; The World Almanac; SOURCE: PANAMA CANAL AUTHORITY, NASA

 

July 31, 2006

 

 

A $5.2-billion proposal to add a third lane to the Panama Canal to accommodate today's larger vessels is moving ahead.

 

A referendum on the project was approved earlier this month by the country's General Assembly; voting is to take place in October.

 

Ships today must be less than 105 feet wide and 965 feet long to fit through the canal's locks. The proposed locks could handle vessels that are 161 feet wide and 1,201 feet long.

 

If approved by Panama's voters and completed as planned, the new locks would be ready in 2014.

 

That last sentence is the kicker. Delays and cost increases could make it extremely difficult to stick to that timetable and making the canal bigger by 2014 doesn't do much for those who would like to see larger, Voyager size, vessels sailing from the West Coast in the near future.:(

[Guest LetMeGo]

Amazingly enough the spesified width and length is exactly the ones of the Genesis-project... Too bad the height limit on the canal would be a problem for RCCL. :rolleyes:

[mohavemommy]

.... especially since West coast cruisers show little reluctance to fly East to sail on those

 

Not so. I have reluctance all the time about it as well as several others on these boards. Flying to the East Coast from here adds at least $1250 more to the cost of the cruise. That's another 3 or 4 day cruise on the Monarch for me! I have chosen to cruise from LA many times over because of this. With RCI pulling the Vision out of LA for the summer... I have had to cruise Carnival for my 7-day. :( I personally don't care if it is a Voyager class or Radiance class ship... just leave us SOMETHING! :p

[negc]

Not so. I have reluctance all the time about it as well as several others on these boards. Flying to the East Coast from here adds at least $1250 more to the cost of the cruise. That's another 3 or 4 day cruise on the Monarch for me! I have chosen to cruise from LA many times over because of this. With RCI pulling the Vision out of LA for the summer... I have had to cruise Carnival for my 7-day. :( I personally don't care if it is a Voyager class or Radiance class ship... just leave us SOMETHING! :p

 

Evidently you and several others don't make up the majority of West coast cruisers as I always find a large contingent from there onboard any cruises I take out of Florida or elsewhere on the East coast. I understand your feelings of disappointment but am merely trying to point out one reason that RCI may not feel an urgent need to change things. If that reluctance were as widespread as you would like to believe, they would take steps to address it.

[MBeamTX]

I think it's a chicken-and-egg problem. Why are so many West Coasters willing to fly to Florida to cruise? Because they have to! I don't think the fact that there are lots of Californians on ships out of Florida necessarily means that's what they prefer to do.

 

There is not a lot of choice, year-round, of ships to sail to Mexico out of California. We have only visited the Mexican Pacific ports once, on a Panama Canal repositioning cruise, but would go again in a heartbeat if RCI had a Radiance class ship sailing those itineraries. I'm in Texas. I can just as easily fly West as East.

 

And as the same-old, same-old Caribbean ports get over-saturated, I think there is a market to be grown on the West Coast.

 

Then again, I'm just a customer, not an industry expert. What do I know? :D

 

Happy cruising,

Susan

[Fairsailing]

Evidently you and several others don't make up the majority of West coast cruisers as I always find a large contingent from there onboard any cruises I take out of Florida or elsewhere on the East coast.

 

Of course the West coasters you meet in Florida, etc are willing to fly to cruise. They wouldn't be there if they weren't. Would you meet those who weren't interested in flying?:D

 

I love how people from the east coast can say there is no demand for a Voyager class ship out here. Meanwhile I talk to friends, family, and co-workers all the time that want to try a cruise but don't want to invest the large amount of money that airfare adds. But they want to go on a ship with an ice skating rink and all of the other stuff they see on TV.

 

I continue to think that we are shooting ourselves in the foot by continuing to support the Vision. Its per diems are some of the highest in the Vision-class. In RCI thinks "if it aint broke, don't fix it" there is no incentive to give us a better ship, Radiance or Voyager class.

[negc]

Of course the West coasters you meet in Florida, etc are willing to fly to cruise. They wouldn't be there if they weren't. Would you meet those who weren't interested in flying?:D

 

I love how people from the east coast can say there is no demand for a Voyager class ship out here. Meanwhile I talk to friends, family, and co-workers all the time that want to try a cruise but don't want to invest the large amount of money that airfare adds. But they want to go on a ship with an ice skating rink and all of the other stuff they see on TV.

 

I continue to think that we are shooting ourselves in the foot by continuing to support the Vision. Its per diems are some of the highest in the Vision-class. In RCI thinks "if it aint broke, don't fix it" there is no incentive to give us a better ship, Radiance or Voyager class.

 

You could be right but unless a large number of you are willing to take that step, RCI isn't going to change its ways. As far as the west coasters I meet onboard, you are correct that I obviously can't meet those who won't fly, but as long as there is a sufficiently large contingent of west coasters onboard every week, why should any cruiseline worry much about those people that they aren't attracting or speculate as to their reasons? Businesses respond to hard numbers and until you can provide them, talk about all those who won't fly east is easy to ignore.:)