COMMUNICATION: Who Wants Cell Service At Sea???

[Copper10-8]

Copper(John), not to bust you, but that great cellphone law does not go into effect till July 2008. I am all for it, but it also exempts a lot of people who should NOT have been exempted.

 

Ed

 

Hey thanks for the update Ed and, its OK, I like busts;)

BTW, nobody will be exempted if they use a cell "hands off"

[BruceMuzz]

Several cruise lines - including HAL - have reluctantly experimented with this service over the past few years. It is not a big money maker. In fact, it actually reduces onboard revenues with lower rates and a lower percentage of those lower rates for the cruise lines.

Currently most ships offer satellite calls priced at anywhere from US$5 to US$15 per minute. A large percentage of that calling charge is paid to the cruise line. This is a very good revenue and profit source for them.

 

Now with the new Cell Towers, there are several changes:

1. Passengers can talk on their telephone anywhere they want.

2. The ship has options to block cell phone usage anywhere they want (dining rooms and show lounges come to mind).

3. The ship charges nothing for the call. Your telephone service provider bills you for the call. Charges vary by provider; from about $1.50 per minute to around $3.50 per minute.

4. The cruise line receives a small portion of the roaming charges you pay.

5. Hardly anybody makes satellite telephone calls from their cabins anymore.

6. The revenue from satellite calls is nearly zero. The revenue received from from the cell phone service providers is far lower than the satellite revenue was previously.

 

All these changes are made based on passenger demands and market research.

 

When each cruise line prepared to install this service, the management all voiced the same concerns that we see on this thread. The selling point for the service was the feature allowing the ship to block calls in certain areas of the ship.

So far there are several dozen mass market cruise ships with cell towers installed. So far not one has needed to restrict telephone calls in any part of any vessel.

 

The HAL people were very nervous about noise complaints when they started their own cell tower experiment. They were pleasantly surprised when they didn't receive any complaints about abusers.

Are there abusers? Probably. But it appears that the problems are not serious enough for anyone to bother to complain - at least yet.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Excellent info, Mr. Muzz. Thank you. Only time will tell in the end. I have a feeling the subject will be covered often on these boards in the coming months and years.

[GMoney]

I didn't read every post in this thread, so if someone made this point I apologize, but there's really no controversy here. Several cruise lines have had cell service for sometime, and I really do not recall seeing any posts complaining about overbearing users.

[hammybee]

The HAL people were very nervous about noise complaints when they started their own cell tower experiment. They were pleasantly surprised when they didn't receive any complaints about abusers.

Are there abusers? Probably. But it appears that the problems are not serious enough for anyone to bother to complain - at least yet.

 

Thanks for the facts.

[kryos]

6. The revenue from satellite calls is nearly zero. The revenue received from from the cell phone service providers is far lower than the satellite revenue was previously.

I wonder, though, if many passengers bring onboard their own satellite phones? I can get a rate of $1.00 a minute if I bring one from the job. Problem is, though, if I lose it ... I'm screwed. It costs something like $800.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Grumpy1]

Rita, I believe BruceMuzz was referring to your in-cabin phones, which are linked through the satellite system. By the way, on the 2005 world cruise, you could pick up a calling card at the front desk to use with your in-cabin phone. the card was $25 for 12 minutes, which was far cheaper than the $7 per minute (or thereabouts) that was charged for direct dial.

[cruzincurt]

Quote "The ship charges nothing for the call. Your telephone service provider bills you for the call. Charges vary by provider; from about $1.50 per minute to around $3.50 per minute.

The cruise line receives a small portion of the roaming charges you pay."

 

Seems to me that no cell phone provider has a satellite, they have towers every mile or so. Therefore I assume the ship will provide the cell phone service through their satellite facilities. If say Cingular wants to install a transceiver and antenna on the ship, the cruise line is going to charge for leasing the space and providing electricity. It's not going to be like using your cell phone in a hotel room to avoid using the hotel's system. Once the service is beyond the land based antenna towers, they will know exactly who to bill and how much.

 

T Mobile is negotiating with our homeowners association to install a "flag pole" antenna at our play field. They are going to pay us $30,000 a year just for the lease to install the antenna.

[carol louise]

In 2004 we sailed out of NYC on a back-to-back on the Norwegian Dawn with an aft balcony cabin. The ship didn’t have on-board cell service, but it called at Miami and Port Everglades each week so there was plenty of opportunity to use cell phones. My husband is handicapped and was recovering from an illness during that cruise, so we didn’t go ashore often and spent much time on the beautiful balcony. The conversations we overheard were not of the emergency variety. I wish there would be a way to limit cell phone use to INSIDE cabins.

 

Has anyone else wondered why it is easier to tune out a nearby 2-person conversation (so it just becomes background noise) than a 1-sided cell phone conversation?

[HeatherInFlorida]

....................

Has anyone else wondered why it is easier to tune out a nearby 2-person conversation (so it just becomes background noise) than a 1-sided cell phone conversation?

 

I sure wish I had the answer to that question, Carol Louise! I wish I knew why it feels so intrusive. I do think that two people conversing usually use a lower tone of voice. It seems that cell phone users seem to feel they have to shout and that becomes the problem.

 

Some may do it because of a bad connection, but I still think that many do it to indicate a level of importance.

 

If someone learns how to tune it out, please post!!! And don't suggest an Ipod because sound may be what I'm trying to avoid:D .

[AAAAmerican]

Well safety has to go first.

 

People have to kept away from the towers and transmission waves as studies do show not favorable results occur when near them...

Also on board the courtesy has to be shown to fellow passengers ..(IMHO)) otherwise it will become Cell Hogs like the Chair Mongers on some ships!:mad:

 

Also : Headlines :

 

Carriers plot new strategies

After signing up more than seven of every 10 Americans, mobile-phone carriers are casting about for others ways to maintain growth.

 

After signing up more than seven of every 10 Americans for wireless service, mobile-phone carriers are casting about for new, and old, ways to maintain frothy growth rates.

 

To hear wireless executives tell it at a major investor's conference this week, the industry still has plenty of room to expand despite constant predictions of a pending slowdown. They talk about niche markets yet to be exploited; an appetite for new data services such as movie or video downloads; and the opportunity to connect more BlackBerrys and laptops to their wireless networks.

 

To Cingular Wireless Chief Executive Ralph de la Vega, his company and the industry as a whole have proceeded no further than "halftime." He forecasts a rosy future for the wireless business, though he cautions that competition is ferocious and likely to remain that way.

 

Denny Strigl, chief executive of Verizon Wireless, is just as bullish.

"Do I foresee a slowdown in the business in the near future? No, I do not," he said this week at a communications conference sponsored by Goldman Sachs in New York. "The doomsayers are wrong."

What next?

 

NOTE:: Verizon: VZ:NYSE Bought MCI MCIP:OTC then earlier this year for more than the customers they had as sales were dwindling..they fianlly obtained TIER ONE direct ACCESS. That the highest on the Backbone.! And IVAN the,**** well you choose the words.., called MCI (The last Beachfront Property ) yes they bought MCI at an extreme discount.. Look at CTCO:OTC now who they are being bought by...

 

Consolidation more and more ..soon Bell South BLS:NYSE may be part of AT&T T:NYSE

so will the Old Ma Bell be the New Ma Bell? Which began in New Jersey.

::

 

 

The future, however, is unlikely to entail signing up huge numbers of customers who've never had wireless service. Those days are largely over. What's more, specially discounted services such as family plans have largely run their course.

 

That means mobile carriers need to find other ways to separate themselves from rivals as they seek advantage in the wireless wars. And the biggest battleground of the future is expected to take place in data market.

Hoping to find a new pot of gold, all the major carriers are spending billions of dollars to expand their networks to offer wireless Internet access at increasingly faster speeds.

 

Holding the line

So far, the payoff has been less than spectacular, but executives say it's way too early to render judgment. Carriers derive no more than $7 or $8 a month from wireless-data service, though they note that usage is growing. Those gains have more than offset the declines in revenue from plain-vanilla voice services.

 

For now, email and instant messaging remain the most popular data services. Carriers would like to offer bigger downloads like songs and video clips, but Internet-access speeds still don't equal DSL or cable, and prices for wireless data service remain relatively high.

 

To address those problems, Sprint Nextel Corp. (S :NYSE

Sprint Nextel Corporation has embarked on an ambitious -- some call it foolish -- $3 billion plan to build the nation's first WiMax network by 2008

 

 

NOTE::: ::

 

This is whats going to be on ships ... The Land Cities are being developed by firms like Goggle GOOG:OTC and Earth Link:ELNK:OTC are doing Complete Ciites now for wireless: San Francisco, Philly..etc... etc...

 

:::

 

WiMax is like the Wi-Fi technology used to create home networks, but a WiMax network could transmit more data at far greater speeds over longer distances. Over time, the low cost to run such a network could also sharply reduce wireless-Internet access prices.

Sprint's rivals take a skeptical view of the company's plans and are in no rush to follow suit.

 

Alltel's Ford says to "put me down as unconvinced" about the need to build a WiMax network now. Strigl, meanwhile, said that his company needs to "consider alternative high-speed technologies, and at the appropriate time Verizon will make a decision, not now."

 

Analysts say that Sprint executives felt compelled to gamble on a WiMax network because it's in danger of falling further behind market leader Cingular

 

Among Sprint's missteps, the carrier signed up too many customers with poor credit histories; its advertising message also became muddled. Perhaps worst of all, the company failed to offer the popular Razr line of phones from Motorola Inc.MOT:NYSE

 

Gary Forsee, Sprint's chief executive, said that the company plans a comeback in the fourth quarter, when it will release new hybrid phones that combine the walkie-talkie features of Nextel with Internet access on Sprint's network. Sprint finally will debut the Razr phones as well.

"Handsets and applications are in the top three or four reasons that customers stay with you and customers come in and buy from you," he acknowledged.

 

Cingular executives, of course, are only too pleased to reinforce that point. The company was the first to offer the Razr, the best-selling phone in the United States, and it drove a lot of growth for Cingular over the past few years.

 

 

With competitors now all offering the Razr, Cingular is putting more emphasis on its new data network. De la Vega said that the company sees room for growth in niche markets such as youths and Hispanic customers. "We're No. 1 in the youth market," he added. "We're No. 1 in the Hispanic market."

Ford of Alltel agrees that niche markets are important, but in his view, customers who subscribe to monthly plans are still a mobile carrier's bread and butter: "The driver of the business is classic postpaid, higher-spending customers."

 

Verizon, of course, has long taken that position. Of the four largest wireless carriers, Verizon has put the most emphasis on signing up its own customers directly and largely avoiding prepaid service or the riskier customer segments.

Unlike Sprint, for instance, Verizon generally has declined to sell wholesale access to its wireless network to companies like Virgin Mobile seeking to enter the business with their own brand.

 

By obtaining complete control of their customers, Verizon generates higher profit margins than its rivals and is better able to address consumer complaints.

 

Lousy customer service, in fact, has long been one of the industry's bugaboos. Verizon executives believe that they can generate further growth at the expense of rivals by reducing customer-service problems. The company has run the most successful ad campaign -- "Can You Hear Me Now?" -- to drive home that point

 

"We think this creates a significant advantage for us," according to Strigl, the chief executive. "There's plenty of opportunity, frankly, to take customers from our competitors."

 

So successful has been Verizon at creating an image of quality and reliability, it's competitors are now trying to mimic the company in their own advertising campaigns. "It's frankly flattering to be imitated," he said.

Verizon can't rest on its laurels, however. The company may have set the industry standards in brand awareness and profitability, but even Strigl admits that rivals are catching up.

"We're closing the gap," Cingular's de la Vega said

 

NOTE::VZ:NYSE Has the most reliable connections in the NE here:

 

 

 

NOTE: Overseas especially in Asia the numbers are much higher and they have not the LandLines we have..

 

NJ had the first Area Code (201) , as NJ is the Mother of Invention, in the USA. No not the Francis Vincent Zapino music known as Frank Zappa as he never paid the Mothers of Invention. He went to school with Captain Beef Heart who is in Munich, Germany today.

 

Zappa as he was known invented a few things in electronics multi tracking etc.. and could play any instrument.

 

Les Paul is in NJ ..

Mr Harmon of Harmon Karden.. the amplifier and tube/transistor intertwining..

 

My mentor Thomas A. Edison..! Yes his smook still is on his chair the lab in West Orange, Esssex County and Black Maria.. the Turntable house used in the first motion pictures.. A National treasure ..

[BruceMuzz]

cruzincurt,

 

So far as I know, you are correct. There probably are no satellites owned by American mobile telephone companies.

So this is how it works. There are several new companies offering this new mobile telephone service on ships. They have teamed up with MTN, the company that provides satellite telephone and Internet services on most cruise ships. MTN ownes/leases the satellites that carry all the data and voice transmissions from ship to shore.

MTN and the new start up companies arrange installation of the cell towers on the ships. They make an agreement with your cell phone service provider to allow roaming service through this tower. Your provider bills you for this service. MTN's satellite carries the signal. I have no idea how everyone gets paid, but there is some sort of arrangement where the ship gets a bit for carrying the tower and offering the service, MTN gets a bit for their satellite services, and the new provider that set this all up gets a bit as well.

 

Whenever the computer that runs this system detects a viable cell signal from a shore based antenna, the cell tower equipment on the ship automatically shuts down, and your telephone roams to the shore-based antenna. This operation is seamless, so you have no exact idea when you will be paying roaming charges to the cell tower, or to the land-based antenna. This could become quite an expensive guessing game if you try to telephone home from the ship and are just a few miles too far out to sea for your telephone to connect to shore based antennas.

 

The idea behind this project is that Americans (and just about everyone else) are so enamoured of talking endlessly on their cell phones that they will make far more telephone calls and talk for many more minutes with this service in place - even though the ship and the telephone providers will earn far less money - per call - than they presently do. It's all based on projected volume. So far, those projections have not really come true. But it is very early in the game, and the players are confident that their market research is correct.

[RuthC]

But it is very early in the game, and the players are confident that their market research is correct.

Unfortunately, I have no doubts that it is.

I'm thinking back to my Noordam cruise last March. We were docked in some port or other---probably St. Thomas---and I was in the Explorations Cafe. A man was at a computer terminal, typing away, when his cell phone rang. He interrupted his $0.75 per minute to take the call in the usual loud voice. No thought to anyone or anything else around him. It's the library, for pete's sake!

When I called out to tell (yes, "tell", not "ask") him to take it outside he reacted as if I was acting out of line. :rolleyes:

Now it looks like his tribe will increase.

[Wormy53]

I like to use my cell phone as much as the next person. It can be a real convenience. However - my experience on the Regal Princess last year changed my view.

We were cruising in Alaska and had a balcony (we are big on nature and the sightseeing was the main draw). We had a neighbor who came out every morning and made several calls to different people. All involved the same tiresome talk:

Do you know where we are today?

I saw a whale yesterday.

What are you doing?

Potty training (grandparents)

How is everyone today? (No change from yesterday)

It was like listening to teenagers - where are you - what are you doing now- what are you wearing - do you know what he/she said?

Not much response when we asked him to tone it down. Yes, it is annoying!

[BruceMuzz]

Wormy53,

I completely agre with you. Personally I do not believe that this new telephone service is a very good idea at all. But at the end of the day, my personal opinions are worth zero.

We must always remember that the American Public has nearly total control over what happens on cruise ships. The Market Place rules.

If a large number of cruisers objects to something to the point where they vote with their wallets, positive or negative, you will see immediate action and change on the ships.

If all that expensive market research proves to be correct - as it usually does - middle America will embrace this cell phone thing and it will not be going away.

[cruzincurt]

AAAAmerican,

 

You lost me in that post.

 

Basically, people today need their gizmos. Kiddos need to watch a DVD in the rear seat during that 5 minute commute to school. Funniest thing is those people with the "bone phones". Here's a guy standing in the middle of the airport concourse carrying on a loud conversation. No one around, no visible handset.

 

I'm lucky I live a boring life. No one to call and no one calls me. I would like to actually put a pay phone in my kitchen since we never use it. We have the lowest phone service available called "measured service". Cost about $7.50/month then they add on all those taxes we don't get to vote on that brings us up to $16.00 a month for a land line. Anyone else that can match my $16.00 a month phone bill? The cell phone is $29.00 tax included for the month.

[RuthC]

We have the lowest phone service available called "measured service". Cost about $7.50/month then they add on all those taxes we don't get to vote on that brings us up to $16.00 a month for a land line. Anyone else that can match my $16.00 a month phone bill? The cell phone is $29.00 tax included for the month.

Close. My measured service is $7-change, but the taxes are $10-something; total is $17+. But! my cell is $24-change. So I bet the total is about the same.

And I don't use either, either! :D

[HeatherInFlorida]

At the risk of repeating myself:o , I still believe that it's not so much about what the American public wants as it is about making money. They can skew their market research to make it appear the greater percentage of people are asking for this.

 

And what I will agree with is that once it's provided, a large percentage will use it. But I doubt very much you will see over 50% of the ship yakking on their cellphones half the time.

 

It's a way for the mobile communications companies (or whatever their called) to make money and their figures are telling them that even if a certain percentage use it, it will pay off for them.

 

Again, bottom line. It's not about what we want, it's about the almighty dollar. We are told what we want. The fashion industry tell us what we want to wear and developers tell us the house we want to live in and we follow like lemmings to the sea.

 

It's the same old "If we build it, they will come". But if we didn't build the darned thing, the cruise ships would still be full.

[Copper10-8]

........ It's the library, for pete's sake!

When I called out to tell (yes, "tell", not "ask") him to take it outside he reacted as if I was acting out of line. :rolleyes:

 

Troublemaker!:D I can already see the verbal altercations are going to increase, followed by physical altercations! The next thing you know it'll look like a Carnival cruise!:eek: ;)

[BruceMuzz]

Heather,

All too often, what the American Public wants and accepts, and what business wants and offers in order to protect the bottom line are one and the same thing. It is a free market phenomenon.

 

To change the exisiting telephone system on ships is quite a risky and expensive venture. Currently the ships make a very comfortable and substantial profit by charging you big money to make a satellite telephone call from your cabin. Why in heaven's name would they be willing to spend really big money for all new satellite equipment that basically closes down their satellite telephone business by underselling it? Aren't they competing against themselves - and coming out on the short end of the stick? Earning a substantial cut of $6 per minute today is not nearly as attractive as earning a tiny cut of a $1.50 per minute roaming charge in the future. By hoping and planning that they can make up the difference on volume of calls, they also sabotage their bandwidth costs. Many more calls burn up a much bigger bandwidth. Bandwidth on satellites costs big money. Increasing that satellite bandwidth to accommodate all those calls is incredibly expensive. So why would they do this and take such a potentially expensive risk?

Easy answer: Every expensive market research report tells us that is what middle America wants on a cruise. And we know that if middle America wants something, they will pay for it. No matter if it is $5 cups of coffee, $1.50 cups of sweet colored water, or $1.50 per minute telephone calls from a cruise ship.

 

Would ships give up huge public spaces and close down money-making bars in order to hold those annoying Art Auctions if everyone refused to buy that stuff?

 

On most cruise ships the highest paid employee onboard is the Art Auctioneer. He earns more than the Captain. His salary is a percentage of all the art he sells. Who decides that? The passengers, of course.

 

Would the Duty Free shops use valuable merchandising space for displaying all that $10 junk if nobody ever purchased it? That stuff just flies off the shelves. Have you noticed anyone with a gun, forcing people to buy it?

 

It's no different on land. Starbucks would not last a single day if even half of the American Public refused to pay $5 for a cup of coffee.

 

Why does McDonalds charge $1.50 for a cheap fountain coke in a paper cup that costs them a total of .03 to make? Because the American Public allows them to. In fact, almost all of McDonald's profit comes from selling soft drinks. The junk food is sold nearly at cost in order to get you in the door to buy a coke. If people refused to buy the cokes, McDonalds would be forced to double the price of their food - or go bankrupt.

 

In Hilo Hawaii there is a Wal-mart very near to the tender pier. Wal-Mart has a fleet of complimentary shttle buses to carry passengers from the pier to their store. The (seemingly) biggest feature at Hilo is the opportunity to visit the longest erupting volcano in the world. It is arguably one of the wonders of the modern world. Also on the pier are tour buses that will take you to visit the volcano for a mere $10. There isn't enough time to do both. You can either visit this spectacular natural wonder, or go shopping at Wal-Mart. Easy choice, right? Yes, it is. The great majority of cruise passengers opt to skip the $10 volcano tour and take the free shuttle bus to see what sort of deal they can get at Wal-Mart.

Does anyone else find this a bit bizarre? No matter. The American Public ultimately decides what succeeds and what fails. They vote with their wallets.

And there is the bottom line.

[Copper10-8]

Well put Mr. Muzz, and very frustrating if you really think about the logic behind it:rolleyes:

[BruceMuzz]

John,

I couldn't agree with you more.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Mr.Muzz, I wouldn't argue with one single thing you say (as hard as that is for you to believe:) ). You're absolutely right. But I still believe just from having lived on this earth for all these years (it's the only benefit, by the way;) ) that the logic lies in the fact that "if we build it, they will come". It's just the way it works.

 

I wouldn't begin to bore you with how I know all this, but I'm not dreaming it up on my own.

 

All cruise lines, not just HAL, want more passengers. They want to build bigger ships with more passengers. In order to get those they have to appeal to a vaster audience. From their research they believe this will help them reach that goal.

 

And I won't debate for a moment that it probably will. The fact that it takes me off the ship is of absolutely no consequence to them because I'll die within 20 years (probably) anyway. They're not trying to get people like me.

 

So you're right. No argument.

 

But I hate it.:(

[serendipity1499]

AAAAmerican,

 

You lost me in that post.

 

I'm lucky I live a boring life. No one to call and no one calls me. I would like to actually put a pay phone in my kitchen since we never use it. We have the lowest phone service available called "measured service". Cost about $7.50/month then they add on all those taxes we don't get to vote on that brings us up to $16.00 a month for a land line. Anyone else that can match my $16.00 a month phone bill? The cell phone is $29.00 tax included for the month.

 

AAAAmerican ...You lost me too...

 

Cruzincurt...I can beat your cell phone..My "Virgin Mobile" cell phone only has to be topped off 4 times a year...It costs $15.00 every three months to top it off..Virgin Mobile originally was going to charge $20 every 3 months but dropped my rate down to $15.00 as I rarely ever use it.. It's worth the $60.00 annually for my peace of mind..:D .

 

The phone is used for approx. one to two minutes per call & never more than once or twice a month if that..

 

The first 10 minutes of calling each day is the most expensive..It's .25 cents a minute..After the 10 minutes is up each day, the charge drops to .05 Cents a minute...

 

Left over minutes can be carried over & the only time we use them all up is when I'm taking calls from the Quartets in DH's Chorus for Valentines Day..We use our land line for the Customers & my cell for the Quartets..

 

Mr Muzz...You say there have not been any complaints about cell phone usage now, but how often do Cruise Company Executives physically travel on their ships & watch what is going on...Do they really talk to passengers about these new things or just listen to the Market Researchers...Ruth's example was a good one...I've never heard a Crew Member ask someone to leave a room so as not to disturb other passengers..Don't you think, in this case they should have?..IMO Market Research can be skewed any way they want it to be..;)

 

Passengers taking a Shuttle to Wal-mart is not only bizarre, it's so awfully sad! What is this world coming to?

 

Happy Cruising everyone..:) Betty

[BruceMuzz]

Serendipity1499,

If anyone wants to know how the passengers feel about any and every subject, he has only to read 1,500 Guest Comment Cards on every ship every week. If he wants to get really serious, he then adds additional questions designed to get direct responses on a particular subject:

 

"How did you like the new Cellular Telephone Service?"

"Please rate the new Leisure Dining Program."

 

Just like on this board, cruise line passengers are rarely shy about giving a very frank and relatively anonymous response.

 

I believe that there is no better market research than asking several thousand people who have just paid for and experienced your product, to tell you exactly how they feel about it.