Can anyone become a TA and save money?

[98Charlie]

[QUOTE]I think it's time to call it quits on this thread.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE=2][COLOR=Red]NO[/COLOR][/SIZE], I just got back from the store with some marshmallows to toast :D

[list=1]
[*]I don't really care one way or the other.
[*]Is it fraud or is it using a legal loophole? (My answer: Loophole)
[*]How is it different for someone to complete all the requirements to be a TA and then only book for themselves and family compared to, say, buying your own equipment and painting your own house? There is some painter that didn't make money on the deal.
[*]We will have 4 cruises this year. Doing the math on becoming a TA (using SWAG accounting method), it just wouldn't be worth the time and money for us to mess with it.
[*]"Have a nice day" - Forrest Gump
[/list]

[ocngypz]

Here's an example. During one busy cruise year (10 cruises), my bookings totalled $25,000 (net). My agent averaged 3% commission on my bookings.. or $750.00.

Now how much money would I have saved if I hung out my own "shingle"?
Nothing.....because key Accounts get better rates...and small producers or those new to the field have reduced commision structures with some lines.

Hmm.. I think I'd much rather put the "expense" money towards a cruise.. and not overhead. But each to his own.

[Kathleen P.]

[quote name='tnguys']Does anyone else see the irony that one of the more critical comments in this thread are made by somone who thinks it's okay to screw over an insurance company?[/QUOTE]

You lost me....what insuance company??? Insurance is not a part of this...I don't understand to what and to whom you are speaking of. If you are referring to me, I do not have insurance nor is it any part of what I am speaking of.


To be a travel agent and book vacations for yourself is not a crime, is not fraud, is not a loophole. If you are a show maker and decided you do not want any customers, you just want to make shoes for yourself and your family, is that wrong. Sure, you might get a discount on the supplies to make the shoes, but you are not making any money. Is getting a "free" vacation using your AmEx points cheating...I could also use 290,000 of my points and go on the Summit to Alaska...is that fraud...I'm not paying for it!

Like I stated in another post, MOST of our vactions are not discountable, and most of my vacations are land vacations. I am not a cruise specialist TA, I do not wish to sit all day booking trips, and even with the commission deducted from our last cruise, we spent over $6000...so where is the "crime".

I know some people who do not take any tests, who have an illegal (stolen)IATA card. They use it everywhere they vacation for discounts---that is stealing and that is wrong-- that I would never do.

[Ocean Boy]

I have to say that I have talked with TAs, who advertise themselves as cruise specialist, to be far less knowledgable than I about many issues. My first cruise to Bermuda I decided I wanted to take Horizon out of New York. I talked to one TA who suggested NCL out of Boston as it was closer to my home and she could save me $100.00 dollars. She never mentioned anything about the various differences between NCL and Celebrity. She never mentioned the docking arrangements in Bermuda between the two lines. I gave her all the info and explained to her why NCL was not a good fit for me. She did not get my business.

I asked a TA if I should take the ship transfers or arrange my own transportation for my cruise on Mariner of the Seas. Her response was that it was easy enough to take a cab to the Port of Miami. I informed her that Mariner sails out of Port Canaveral. She did not get my business.

Maybe it is time for all bookings to just go through the cruise lines. They can take the commission factor out of the fares and sell us a cruise much like what the airlines are doing. The fact is, I call the TA and tell her the ship, date of departure and cabin that I want. By the time I book all my questions have already been answered... and usually right here at C.C.

[Lotsacruising]

"First of all.... very few Celebrity cruises go on agents' rates.

Secondly, when there is a Seminar At Sea, it is not open to all agents. Invitations are sent.

Thirdly, agent fams for new ships are also by invitation and invitations are limited .. usually to 100 per District Sales Manager.

4th.....agents who book the fewest cruises are not visited by a DSM, rather they have their own inside sales person who they never see.

There's a lot more to being a cruise agent than just the booking process... and paying some outfit a $495.00 sign up fee. And if you want to be full service......say hello to various bonds, errors and omissions insurance policies, etc.

If you truly want low fares, find yourself a high volume cruise agent, establish a strong working relationship with that agent keep booking with that agent.. and don't shop him or her for five bucks........and skip the overhead. You'll come out ahead in the long run.

Yes, there are agents who do very well for themselves... but they are glued to their headsets 5 sometimes 6 days a week.. 8 hours a day."


[color=indigo]thank you for those VERY meaningful words. As a TA for the past 10 years, I feel it is part of my job to be very knowledgable about as many cruise shipsand lines as possible. There are times that I will spend literally hours assisting a new and/or old client selecting just the right cruise. I feelthat people work very hard for their money and deserve to be treated accordingly.[/color]
[color=#4b0082]I do NOT believe that a person paying a $400 or whatever fee should then call themselves a "travel agent" with the same experience and contacts that I and all other actual travel agents have acquired over the years.[/color]
[color=#4b0082]I also answer calls and return emails morning noon and night as I feel questions should be answered on a timely basis. That is what a travel agent does. Not send away for info fill out a form or 2 and then use the title "travel agent"[/color]
[color=#4b0082][/color]
[color=#4b0082]Kathleen, you may or may not be a member of CLIA but you are not really a travel agent. I do not believe you have sold the amount of cruises required, taken the courses, or done official ship inspections that a true travel agent should do.[/color]
[color=#4b0082]If you are able to get discounted cruises, more power to you. Congrats and I am truly glad that it has worked out for you.[/color]
[color=#4b0082]I am proud to be a working travel agent.[/color]
:)

[cruiseyguy]

I agree with the idea that the cruiselines, like the airlines, should offer discounts to those who book their cruises directly with the cruiseline online and let the TAs offer personalized service to those that need it, at a price. I know Ren. Cruises tried this several years ago (in fact, they tried to cut out the TAs all together) and went out of business. But they were premature. Folks are much more savy now, in both using the internet and in gathering cruise info but, until now, cruiselines have made TAs a mainstay of their marketing. Internet discounters such as CruiseQuick are big step in that direction (basically, you do all the homework and they place the booking at a significant discount) but they are still TAs. Sooner or later, however, a big cruise company will move toward direct, online booking and the die will be caste.

[jezzdogg]

Also, I was told and learned that the commission is a lot more than 3%. In fact, when I booked and cruised the Panama Canal this april, the cruise co. put on my master card a amount to Princess and a separate charge to them. When I called an asked, they very reluckantly acknowledge that was their commission

[Florida Beach]

[quote name='Kathleen P.']There is much more to it than just paying a membership fee. the website is [url="http://www.cruising.org/"]www.cruising.org[/url]. You will need to set up a company and register the DBA with your town hall, get a fed tax id# and bank account just for the company (this way if you do sell any vacations, the commission check will be in the company name and you will have to deposit it), fax machine, business cards and I think the yearly fee is $400 or so...not sure.
[/QUOTE]
I've been looking for this type of training :) . Although we both have regular jobs, we do have to travel often, so we can off-set $400/year in no time:cool: Thanks:)

[maxiesmom]

Right on Danno, Phil and Onx! As a former REAL travel agent it's insulting that people think they can substitute all our training and expertise, not to speak of very long hours, putting out fires caused by suppliers and low pay, by in purchasing a card. You may have a CLIA card but that sure doesn't make you a travel agent. All this crap is what gives REAL travel agents a bad name. IMHO, it most certainly is close to fraud and most certainly is not ethical.

[Kathleen P.]

[quote name='Lotsacruising']"First of all.... very few Celebrity cruises go on agents' rates.

Secondly, when there is a Seminar At Sea, it is not open to all agents. Invitations are sent.

Thirdly, agent fams for new ships are also by invitation and invitations are limited .. usually to 100 per District Sales Manager.

4th.....agents who book the fewest cruises are not visited by a DSM, rather they have their own inside sales person who they never see.

There's a lot more to being a cruise agent than just the booking process... and paying some outfit a $495.00 sign up fee. And if you want to be full service......say hello to various bonds, errors and omissions insurance policies, etc.

If you truly want low fares, find yourself a high volume cruise agent, establish a strong working relationship with that agent keep booking with that agent.. and don't shop him or her for five bucks........and skip the overhead. You'll come out ahead in the long run.

Yes, there are agents who do very well for themselves... but they are glued to their headsets 5 sometimes 6 days a week.. 8 hours a day."


[color=indigo]thank you for those VERY meaningful words. As a TA for the past 10 years, I feel it is part of my job to be very knowledgable about as many cruise shipsand lines as possible. There are times that I will spend literally hours assisting a new and/or old client selecting just the right cruise. I feelthat people work very hard for their money and deserve to be treated accordingly.[/color]
[color=#4b0082]I do NOT believe that a person paying a $400 or whatever fee should then call themselves a "travel agent" with the same experience and contacts that I and all other actual travel agents have acquired over the years.[/color]
[color=#4b0082]I also answer calls and return emails morning noon and night as I feel questions should be answered on a timely basis. That is what a travel agent does. Not send away for info fill out a form or 2 and then use the title "travel agent"[/color]
[color=#4b0082][/color]
[color=#4b0082]Kathleen, you may or may not be a member of CLIA but you are not really a travel agent. I do not believe you have sold the amount of cruises required, taken the courses, or done official ship inspections that a true travel agent should do.[/color]
[color=#4b0082]If you are able to get discounted cruises, more power to you. Congrats and I am truly glad that it has worked out for you.[/color]
[color=#4b0082]I am proud to be a working travel agent.[/color]
:)[/QUOTE]



I am a member of CLIA, I go to annual seminars and take classes. I happen to find it fun and very interesting. I do pay my annual fee and get my official CLIA doucment and CLIA travel books/videos/brochures which comes annually in a large box with the yearly membership. Because I decise not to use it to the full extent is my business.

I have never, ever claimed to be an "expert" or an active TA when it comes to cruises or any other travel for that matter....I answered the original post. Can you get a discount the answer is yes...but there is work behind it...regardless if book 1 cruise or 1000. You still have to have the same documentation. You can also take it as far as you wish. As far as ship inspections, read the CLIA forms. If you wish to be an accredited cruise specialist with CLIA you must perform ship inspections and take a different test. If you just want to be a CLIA member, without being accredited, you have to pay the yearly membership fee, take an exam or attend 1 seminar (which you also pay for $35.00) and pay for your card ($18). There is a difference between being a CLIA member and being a CLIA member with accredited certification (accredited, master, elite or CITC credentials - CTC, CTA or CTM). They also ask you on your photo ID app how many cruise passengers you personally booked in the last year. The amouont starts with NONE and goes to over 400.

There is no stipulation in being a CLIA member that you have to sell "X" amount of cruises to be a member. You MUST take an exam and pass and pay your fees otherwise you do not get a photo ID.

So if you decide to go thru the trouble of getting a Fed tax ID number, registering your DBA with the local town hall after it has been notorized, a dedicated phone line, business cards & letterhead, paying membership fees and attending classes and then registering your CLIA number with all travel wholesalers and cruise lines..you can get a CLIA ID card too...just as I did.

I do have lots of on hand travel experience (NOT cruising) as we travel often (without discount). I travel more than most travel agents I have met. Lots of the travel agents I worked with are on the phone/in the office and do not take the time off to visit the places they are booking. When I do book vacations, it is to places I have been and I can highly recommend or not, depending on what people are looking for. Many TA's learn about a resort from the reps that visit the office with glossy ads and commission incentives - I have actually been to many of them.

The reason why I do not actively work as a TA for someone else is that I do not appreciate splitting my commission with the owner and waiting months to get paid for it. The bookings I have done were people I knew...not a call list or calls provided by the agency. When I left and started my own business, I found I was doing a lot of work for no money. People would call and shop and they would book and cancel over a few dollars. They also did not realize that the few dollars they were "saving" was actually going to give them more travel headaches than saving the few dollars - a story many of you active TA's know. It was very frustrating to say the least, espically when you get an inexperienced traveler who does not know their way around, when all you are trying to do is make sure they are traveling safe and in a convenient fashion. They do not understand the layouts of airports, necessary connecting time between flights etc..I felt like I was banging my head against the wall. I would love the e mails and phone calls after the fact that start with "you were right"....

So now I book trips for myself and family....I like the fact that I do not have to call a TA with questions and wait hours for an answer. To me, that is worth the price of being a TA, even if I do not get a discount.

[wv4891]

That comment was not aimed at you, it was aimed at someone else.:rolleyes:


[quote name='Kathleen P.']You lost me....what insuance company??? Insurance is not a part of this...I don't understand to what and to whom you are speaking of. If you are referring to me, I do not have insurance nor is it any part of what I am speaking of.

[/QUOTE]

[Host Walt]

I have my own opinion on this subject. (My opinion, not necessarily that of Cruise Critic.)

[b]Analogy[/b]:
I love Indian food. We go out to the Taj Mahal Restaurant for dinner on occasion and my DW makes an Indian dinner to die for. She buys the ingredients at the same place the Taj Mahal does. (Mrs. Singh, the owner, told her where the store was and gave my wife a few of her recipes.)

When my wife does all the work and whips up a great meal, is she committing fraud on the Taj Mahal restaurant?

----------------------------------------------------------------
The point is that the Travel Agent is in the service industry. If a customer chooses to provide his/her own service rather than pay someone else, and, [b]playing by the rules[/b], he/she is able to get a better price directly from the supplier than from the travel agent, then the question is whether the added expense (CLIA fee), extra work (CLIA training and research on the cruise), and the extra risk (yes, there's a definite risk trying to book your own travel rather than using an experienced professional), then more power to him/her.

Further, if an individual goes through the training, pays the fee and meets all of CLIA's requirements for being a CLIA agent, why can't that person be a CLIA agent, even if he/she is his/her only client?

If CLIA had a requirement similar to IATA, that a CLIA agent must do $X amount of business to retain the right to represent him/herself as a CLIA agent, that's one thing. But CLIA does not.

I suggest the issue is not with the "one client" CLIA agent, but with CLIA itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------

That said, please tone down the rhetoric and limit the discussion to the issue, not each other.

We all would appreciate that.

[hdawson]

Another thought. To book as a travel agent, isn't there a supplier/agent agreement (contract) in place that both parties agree to?

[NiniB]

[font=System][color=darkorchid]AMEN,,Host,, Leave this women alone.... Once again it is NONE of your business!!!! :mad::mad: :( [/color][/font]

[Lotsacruising]

well said maxiesmom, thank you
:)

[greatam]

[quote name='maxiesmom']Right on Danno, Phil and Onx! As a former REAL <A TITLE="Click for more information about travel" STYLE="text-decoration: none; border-bottom: medium solid green;" HREF="http://search.targetwords.com/u.search?x=5977|1||||travel|AA1VDw">travel</A> agent it's insulting that people think they can substitute all our training and expertise, not to speak of very long hours, putting out fires caused by suppliers and low pay, by in purchasing a card. You may have a CLIA card but that sure doesn't make you a travel agent. All this crap is what gives REAL travel agents a bad name. IMHO, it most certainly is close to fraud and most certainly is not ethical.[/QUOTE]

Before you start to unload on someone about fraud, please check out these two websites. The first one specifically states, to paraphrase, 'your family and friends would be your first clients'.
[url]http://www.cruisebrothers.com/jobs_faqs.php[/url]
[url]http://www.globaltravel.com/GoFront.aspx?ATID=&PROMO=&AFF=&PIN=&LID=[/url]

I just spent 3 hours Thursday, trying to undue what a VERY reputable online travel agent did-booked us into a BB cabin (on Princess, sorry, I know this is the Celebrity forum, but the thread is about travel agents, not cruise lines), BUT NOT the BB cabin I wanted. I was VERY specific in my request-even emailed a list of suitable cabins.

I tried to book my Asia cruise with a bricks and mortar agency in AZ, but kept getting told I had to book air with the cruise. (I wanted the cruise line transfer to the port). And we would have a forced layover in Bangkok, which necessitated a hotel. Talk about trying to milk the commission. I will already be in Bangkok, why do I need (or want) a forced layover? It just NEVER made sense to the lady at the agency, so I left.

Essentially, I have done all the work, and someone else is making the money. I really resent it. I sure could have used the $500.00 or so commission in my pocket. More party money!!!!

I know there are good agents out there. For people who cannot or do not want to put up with all the hassles of booking their own cruise (and air and hotel and have a million questions), an agent is a VERY valuable person. But I think the whole point is- IF you have to do ALL the work yourself, is there not some way to save the agents commission?

[sgrissom]

Whew! Thanks, Walt. You really hit the nail on the head. Especially re the "rhetoric." A much nicer word than I was thinking.

[pjsugg]

I hope this thread is dead!

[imme]

Sorry folks but I just came across this thread for the first time and although it seems most would like it to "go by the wayside", I just couldn't resist adding my "two cents worth" too.

First of all thanks for everything along the way here Kathleen...

next, a little about me... 5 cruises sailed now and number 6 coming in October.

My first cruise was with a large group that was organized and handled by someone else so all I did was pay my money, no research, no checking around for prices, etc... I was a member of the group, the group was taking a cruise, XXX was the price of the cruise, and it sailed XX/XX/XXXX... The only question was "to go or not to go". Thank goodness I went, had a great time and have been hooked on cruises ever since. This first cruise was back '86.

Second cruise was for my honeymoon and did a ton of research, read everything I could get my hands on from brochures to Internet Cruise reviews, to library books and magazines, etc... When I finally decided on the trip (Horizon to Bermuda), and started to do a little price shopping, I was amazed that nearly every place I contacted gave me a different price and I started to wonder what was going on here, why the wide range of prices... It just came across, or seemed to me to be a real “racket”. I did end up booking with an online agency and ironically found that their office and the agent that I had been working with were in fact based less than an hour from my house and I ended up being able to pick up the tickets myself at their office and saved their 20 dollar ticket shipping/handling fee (which was another of my pet peeves).

Somewhere along the line during the many many nights on the computer I came across this site that really got me thinking... [url]http://www.hometravelagency.com[/url].

Although the site is mainly dedicated to selling books and it’s own study course, it offers a real wealth of information on this subject free on the site. Not that it matters but I never did buy their books or study courses but would imagine them to be very good as the information provide was wonderful and very helpful and insightful.

Anyway, like Kathleen, I like the idea of having control of my own bookings and although I used an agent for the honeymoon trip, I vowed to never do it again and began the process of "becoming my own agent".

I had become familiar with CLIA and their website but could not and still have not (nearly 5 years later) been able to justify the $400+ fee as I wasn't expecting to sell a lot of cruises... just for myself and my friends and family. With that said it's always been in the back of my mind that if/when my bookings/numbers increase, I certainly will then join CLIA as I do feel they offer a very good product and provide a great service to the travel agent community and the cruise lines as well as the general public.
Joining CLIA would have certainly made things easier but there is still a lot of hoops to jump through along the way and becoming your own agent is not something that I would ever recommend anyone take lightly as it is certainly not something that's easy or that happens over night.

Sure you can become an "affiliate" or sub contractor or "outside sales rep" or whatever you want to call it but I definitely didn't want to go that route either.

One thing that was mentioned here but only briefly was the phone line. That to me seemed to be the MAIN thing that the individual lines wanted to see... That you have a dedicated business phone and that of course in turn means you have a listing in the phone book. This is my biggest expense and I think should be pointed out that you can "become an agent" in the Cruise Lines eyes at least without CLIA and their $400 dollar membership but you can't do it without a phone line (at least I don't think so) and although phone rates will vary, my no frills plan costs around 30 bucks a month or $360/year.

I was SHOCKED but I did have someone stop by the house from HAL once... it was mentioned earlier in this thread that they only do that for large agencies however, even though I wasn't home, nothing bad was ever said, and they didn't boot me out of their system or anything because I wasn't home or because I was home based, etc... They did however leave me a few brochures and a nice note with their card saying if they could be of any service, they'd be happy to help.

I've booked passengers with HAL, RCCL, Celebrity, and Carnival so far and even though I haven't had any "passengers sailed", I'm also "in their systems" and able to book with NCL, Princess, Crystal, Cunard, Disney, etc... To get yourself “into these systems” or listed with the lines, like I said, you must have a phone line and then you must usually fax or mail them a letter with certain info (tax id, SS #, Agent info, business info etc…) on “Company Letterhead” and attach a copy of a business card and that was just the start in some cases.

I have online access to all these and can check prices/availability, etc for anyone, anytime and I'm not limited to the 9-5 or at best 9-9 office hours or I'm not limited to emails back and forth with a large online agency, etc... I get everything straight from the lines themselves and I get it when I want it or when my friends and family want it.

Even though I initially started down this road for myself and my friends and family, I have booked for others who have either found me in the phone book or via my website... I'm always more than happy to get a quote and sometimes I can help and other times I have to recommend they might be better going with someone else as being a small, home based, sometimes it's tough to compete with the large agencies or consortiums that buy large group blocks on certain sailings and can offer them at very low prices with deep discounts.

As far as discounts or travel agent rates go, about the only advantage has been being able to knock 10% off the "Cruise fare" only. I can't change the port charges or taxes. This applies to bookings for myself and the trips I book for others. I'm not "in it for the money" and I think most travel agents will agree although all to a different extent. From everything I've read and experienced, it's very hard to get rich in travel, you don't do it for the money, you do it because you love it.

All the lines are different but here is an example from one of the largest of what their agent rates are:

$40 Interior, $50 Ocean View, $75 Balcony* per person, per day CLIA
$50 Interior, $60 Ocean View, $85 Balcony* per person, per day Non-CLIA

So as you can see, even without a CLIA card, the rates can be very nice but as mentioned, these are normally only offered on last minute type sailings so it's not something you can plan ahead for.

I'm back searching and reading these boards regular again because I've been researching my next cruise which is on Celebrity Zenith 9 days to Bermuda 10/23. I booked myself a Cat 4, outside with the Residents special rate, with fare, taxes, port, etc, coming to $675.00 per person.

This residents special is a whole other subject which has been covered on these boards before so I won't go into that but it's similar to the senior specials or discounts offered on some sailings and NO, I WOULD NEVER BOOK SOMEONE 40 SOMETHING TO A SENIOR RATE and I’m not trying to misrepresent or commit any type of fraud on any level.

Wow, this has quickly gotten much longer than I expected so I’ll close here but once again, thanks Kathleen for your insights and know that you are not alone…

[imme]

One more thing that I thought of while reviewing my previous post...

I'm lucky in that the area I live in does not require any sort of permit or licensing for travel agents although this varies widely by state and sometimes even at the local county or city level as well. These permits or liscenses could also quickly become a major expense/hurdle in "becoming an agent" or establishing yourself with the lines and is another major consideration. I don't think this has been mentioned/considered on this thread yet.

[tbelian]

[quote name='Host Walt']I have my own opinion on this subject. (My opinion, not necessarily that of Cruise Critic.)
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I think this should be closed.

There has not been that much value added discussion about the original post, or crusing in general.

I think it's time to put personal opinion (read position) aside and let the issue die a natural death.

Is it actually commiting a fraud, or not? Don't know, can't say. But I'm not a lawyer, some of us (posters) are .. regardless, the area is grey. Why risk it? Think of other situations where there was 'no question' about removing the item from the table (the back door entrance).

I only posted one or two times to this thread, because I saw quickly that it could become dicey. The fact of the matter is that because so many others have made it 'personal' it has violated community guidelines, hasn't it?

Thanks.

[BB5953]

Tbelian - I would say there is still good info coming in regarding becoming a TA - look at imme who just posted this morning. I think as long as it is not discussing illegal behavior and is not a pure flaming thread it should stay up for people who are interested in pursuing it.

[tbelian]

[quote name='BB5953']Tbelian - I would say there is still good info coming in regarding becoming a TA - look at imme who just posted this morning. I think as long as it is not discussing illegal behavior and is not a pure flaming thread it should stay up for people who are interested in pursuing it.[/QUOTE]

I'm really asking Walt to take another look at this, although, as is common, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[BB5953]

I know Tbelian - my concern is the censorship that can take place. This thread clearly does not break any policies and there is still good info coming through - if it is removed it will be based on someone’s personal opinions not on policy -I don't agree with that. If it upsets you just don't read it.

Imme - you mention that you place an add in the paper - is this required or do you just have to have a listed phone number?

[tbelian]

never mind