As You Wish Dining - Opinions, Comments and Discussions

[RevNeal]

[quote name='HeatherInFlorida'][COLOR=navy]It also occurs to me that solo cruisers may not necessarily want to be seated at an all singles table. I could be wrong, but I feel sure that Greg as well as others also enjoy the companionship of couples who also like to dine with the same people every night. This is not going to be easily found with people who have chosen to dine as they wish just by the definition of "as you wish".[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

Correct, Heather. It's what I've shared above. Sure, solos can always use the "Solo and Single Cruisers" get-together to arrange dining companions for the duration of the cruise -- but, when we do this, we miss out on getting to meet and eat with couples and families ... something that I enjoy doing in the Traditional system.

[RevNeal]

[quote name='hammybee']I mean does it make business sense to grant equal priority to those who are paying say, $70 per person per day the same as a passenger paying $350 per day? And I say this as someone who more often than not, sails in the cheap seats.[/QUOTE]

This is off-topic, but ...

When did you last sail HAL for $70 ppdo/pd? Granted, when I cruise as a solo I pay the single supplement, hence it's not uncommon for me to be paying $200 - $250 pd for an inside J-category inside cabin. However, even when I cruise double-occupancy it's hard for me to get bellow $125-$175 pp/pd in a J-inside to an E outside.

[RevNeal]

[quote name='Opinions']Regardless of how popular AYW is it's taking seats away from traditional diners...It certainly seems to be attracting interest from those who haven't cruised HAL bcause of the lack of AYW dining...Logic would say that if AWD is popular there will be less room for traditional diners.[/QUOTE]

If AYW is very popular then there should be fewer people on any given cruise wanting Traditional. This will be true regardless of the number of new people who are attracted to the line (that's because there is a fixed maximum occupancy for each ship ... it won't change just because the potential passenger base changes). If HAL adjusts the size of AYWD and Traditional to accommodate more AYWD diners than Traditional Diners, that should ALSO an NEVERTHELESS mean that there will still be sufficient space for those who want Traditional. In other words ... there should be a problem; not if HAL adjusts the amount of space alloted for each venue based upon the requests and on a cruise-by-cruise basis.

[hammybee]

[quote name='revneal']This is off-topic, but ...

When did you last sail HAL for $70 ppdo/pd? Granted, when I cruise as a solo I pay the single supplement, hence it's not uncommon for me to be paying $200 - $250 pd for an inside J-category inside cabin. However, even when I cruise double-occupancy it's hard for me to get bellow $125-$175 pp/pd in a J-inside to an E outside.[/quote]


Here are some inside guarantee cabins, based upon dbl occupancy:

10/6 Maasdam 14 days/ $71 p/p
10/9 Veendam 12 days/ $75 p/p
10/22 Rotterdam 25 days/ $95 p/p
All Novemebr sailings on the Zuiderdam 7 days/ $70 p/p
11/24 Oosterdam 7 days/ $64 p/p
1/16 Noordam 10 days/ $83 p/p
All January Oosterdam sails/ $70 p/p

Some of these same sailings also have super 3rd/4th passenger promotions which, if the cost is split 3-4 ways, may make more sense to live on a ship than at home.:D

As you know, I am not a T/A or affiliated with the travel business.

[RevNeal]

[quote name='hammybee']Here are some inside guarantee cabins, based upon dbl occupancy:

10/6 Maasdam 14 days/ $71 p/p
10/9 Veendam 12 days/ $75 p/p
10/22 Rotterdam 25 days/ $95 p/p
All Novemebr sailings on the Zuiderdam 7 days/ $70 p/p
11/24 Oosterdam 7 days/ $64 p/p
1/16 Noordam 10 days/ $83 p/p
All January Oosterdam sails/ $70 p/p

Some of these same sailings also have super 3rd/4th passenger promotions which, if the cost is split 3-4 ways, may make more sense to live on a ship than at home.:D

As you know, I am not a T/A or affiliated with the travel business.[/QUOTE]

Wow. :eek:
I don't book guarantees, so I guess that makes the difference. :)

I priced the Jan 5th Oosterdam sailing as a single ... it came to $109. That's still fantastic for a solo, although it's a Guarantee.

As for living aboard ... Yes, I would love to.

[bermuda triangle]

Wow. :eek:

I don't book guarantees, so I guess that makes the difference. :)

 

I priced the Jan 5th Oosterdam sailing as a single ... it came to $109. That's still fantastic for a solo, although it's a Guarantee.

 

As for living aboard ... Yes, I would love to.

 

For our Noordam 1/5 (11 nights) 1 and 2 are paying $76pp/d and our 3 and 4 are 23.72 pp/d. for cat. C not a guarantee. We are still waitlisted for our dinner choice however...

 

Laura

[RuthC]

There is NO REASON why it has to be either/or. Bob, Ruth, Heather, SharonN, myself, etc., ... our desire is a simple one. We HAL to confirm that we will be able to Dine "As We Wish," with Traditional, not Open, Seating. Our desire for HAL to confirm this does NOT equate to a desire for AYWD to be dropped -- nor does it entail a pitting of one Dining System against the other. It is simply a REASONABLE expectation that we should be able to be confirmed in the KIND of dining we wish. PERIOD. And, it is neither logical nor charitable for anyone to conclude, and assign to those of us who desire such confirmation, that we want there to be no such option for others. So, people, please stop building Straw Men and assigning others to them ... that Tender won't float here.

Those doing that are simply projecting, Greg. Not worth arguing with them about it. :rolleyes:

[HeatherInFlorida]

Now Heather, I thought I wrote this very carefully. ....................

 

...................... it did not represent the best time in history for women in general. To suggest otherwise is absurd. And personally offensive. Nearly as offensive as saying we should be made to wear heels to work.

 

When a post begins like this I'm immediately put off. I understood you perfectly the first time.

 

Second, your opinion only as to whether it was or wasn't a good time in history for women. Please remember that what we achieved paved the way for you.

 

Third, please never call what I say absurd. I didn't insult you and I expect the same in return. You have your opinion, I have mine.

 

Speaking of "absurd", I certainly never said you or anyone should be forced to wear heels to work. I said I loved them ... my opinion.

 

So now, Dena, over and done.

 

Correct, Heather. It's what I've shared above. Sure, solos can always use the "Solo and Single Cruisers" get-together to arrange dining companions for the duration of the cruise -- but, when we do this, we miss out on getting to meet and eat with couples and families ... something that I enjoy doing in the Traditional system.

 

Absolutely, Greg ... and I hope we do it with you one day somewhere on some ship:) .

 

And, Ruth, you're absolutely right. No point in even trying anymore.

[RevNeal]

For our Noordam 1/5 (11 nights) 1 and 2 are paying $76pp/d and our 3 and 4 are 23.72 pp/d. for cat. C not a guarantee. We are still waitlisted for our dinner choice however...

 

Yes, Laura ... those early January sailings are usually a FANTASTIC deal. The lower overall rate makes the single supplement even lower, too. That's one of the reasons why I love to cruise the first week in January. I wish I could this year, but with my January 27th South American cruise I can't get away then.

[RevNeal]

Those doing that are simply projecting, Greg. Not worth arguing with them about it. :rolleyes:

 

I realize that, Ruth. But, sometimes, I can't help myself. :D

[bUU]

It is undeniable that women today enjoy unprecedented educational and career choices. It is a near certainty that, had I been born 25 years earlier, I would not have earned a Ph.D. in engineering and would not be enjoying this financially rewarding and intellectually satisfying career of my choosing that matches my interests and abilities. How anyone could argue that more choices are a bad thing for women is mind-boggling. :confused:

Excellent points, Dena. There is no question in my mind that just about every aspect of life is better than years ago. Nostalgia is a wonderful narcotic sometimes, but reality is a bid different than memories filtered through rose-colored glasses.

 

This is the best world there has ever been.

 

Having a great time in Sedona. I just wish I could switch to Mountain Standard Time! Group breakfast isn't for another three and half hours!!!

[bUU]

Yes I "could" have. But I would be shocked if greater than 1% of the doctorates in engineering were earned by women in the days of the manual typewriter. (Even today the percent is low.) Would I have beat those odds when so many bright and talented women did not?

For a pretty interesting view of what it was like for women in the 1960s (with pretty good reviews coming in validating its accuracy), check out Mad Men on AMC.

 

Or ask my mother.

 

My mother was one of those women who, in her own way, fought for all the improvements in society we enjoy today. We should never forget how much has improved. And one additional note: Folks worked to improve life for women so that life would be better for women. That means, unequivocally, that there were aspects of life back then that weren't as good as what their effort were trying to (and eventually, successfully) achieve (d).

[NHBob]

There is NO REASON why it has to be either/or. Bob, Ruth, Heather, SharonN, myself, etc., ... our desire is a simple one. We HAL to confirm that we will be able to Dine "As We Wish," with Traditional, not Open, Seating. Our desire for HAL to confirm this does NOT equate to a desire for AYWD to be dropped -- nor does it entail a pitting of one Dining System against the other. It is simply a REASONABLE expectation that we should be able to be confirmed in the KIND of dining we wish. PERIOD. And, it is neither logical nor charitable for anyone to conclude, and assign to those of us who desire such confirmation, that we want there to be no such option for others. So, people, please stop building Straw Men and assigning others to them ... that Tender won't float here.

 

Amen!

 

Bob

[HeatherInFlorida]

..........There is no question in my mind that just about every aspect of life is better than years ago. ..................

This is the best world there has ever been.

 

....................

 

So unbelievably not true. Unless you were there and can compare for yourself, I don't think you can speak from a realistic perspective.

 

Certainly there are improvements today thanks to so many people like myself. And you're welcome:) . But let's not start on the state of our world.

 

For a pretty interesting view of what it was like for women in the 1960s (with pretty good reviews coming in validating its accuracy), check out Mad Men on AMC.

 

Or ask my mother.

 

My mother was one of those women who, in her own way, fought for all the improvements in society we enjoy today. We should never forget how much has improved. And one additional note: Folks worked to improve life for women so that life would be better for women. That means, unequivocally, that there were aspects of life back then that weren't as good as what their effort were trying to (and eventually, successfully) achieve (d).

 

Or, if your mother isn't around, you can ask me:) ... obviously old enough to be your mother.

 

I lived it, Bicker. I lived in NYC working in the corporate world from 1966 to 1985. I was an AE for an ad agency (Needham Harper & Steers) in the late 60's early 70's. I absolutely LOVE watching Mad Men, but it is a gross exaggeration from the reality. Fun to watch, but please don't take it seriously! Only yesterday I read a review of this show saying it appears the men are running the show, but far from it.

 

But we digress!!!! We're talking about cruising which got us to choice which got us to this silly argument.

 

And there's no question that our choices in cruising today have improved by lightyears since the 60's so we agree about that. Hopefully we're back on track:D .

[xpcdoojk]

This thread has become one of the funniest parodies on the internet. Reasoned posts are removed because the truth is actually shared, and children who think the world began the day they were dumped onto this world are demonstrating the hubris of youth. Truly classic. The triangle clickers are a full time impediment to understanding.

 

jc:rolleyes:

[dogsrule]

This thread has become one of the funniest parodies on the internet. Reasoned posts are removed because the truth is actually shared, and children who think the world began the day they were dumped onto this world are demonstrating the hubris of youth. Truly classic. The triangle clickers are a full time impediment to understanding.

 

jc:rolleyes:

 

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are right about children thinking the world began the day they were born-They are hilarious:D No reasoning whatsoever....:p

[Dena]

 

Once implemented, will AYWD always be available?

 

Generally speaking, AYWD will be available, upon implementation. However, from time to time, Holland America may need to revert to the former traditional four seating dining to accommodate some voyages that have very large groups.

 

 

 

"From time to time".......Well, that's a deal-breaker for us. Period. Unless we can cancel without penalty when this becomes known to HAL and HAL will pay the price difference (if any) for us to book a comprable Princess sailing. However, I understand that HAL refuses to reveal when large groups have booked. So we won't know until after boarding. We didn't cruise for almost 18 years because a table for two (with table service - not the buffet) is an absolute requirement and something we will not gamble on.

 

I though I read a post saying that on a recent sailing Anytime was not available because of a large group, but I was hoping it was a fluke, not policy.

 

So, let's see if I understand the current HAL policy.

For those who want traditional, HAL refuses to confirm it - NO MATTER HOW FAR IN ADVANCE THEY BOOK.

 

For those who want Anytime, HAL will confirm it, but they aren't really promising anything.

 

Nice policy. :confused: It will work well for those who don't really care much one way or the other. :rolleyes:

 

 

Why is HAL so dependent of groups? Princess has Anytime dining and I have never heard of being suspended because of a large group. Certainly, it is not the written policy of Princess.

[bUU]

So unbelievably not true. Unless you were there and can compare for yourself, I don't think you can speak from a realistic perspective. ... Or, if your mother isn't around, you can ask me:) ... obviously old enough to be your mother.

Thankfully, my mother is still with us (indeed, we're cruising on Noordam with her, if all goes well). I'll defer to her perspective, rather than anyone else's, with regard to how things were for women when I was a child. One thing she taught me, thought, is that there are people who will choose to look at the world as a glass half-empty and people who will choose to look at the world as a glass half-full.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Thankfully, my mother is still with us (indeed, we're cruising on Noordam with her, if all goes well). I'll defer to her perspective, rather than anyone else's, with regard to how things were for women when I was a child. One thing she taught me, thought, is that there are people who will choose to look at the world as a glass half-empty and people who will choose to look at the world as a glass half-full.

 

Bicker, obviously I was pulling your leg. And I wasn't suggesting your mother was gone ... I said if she "wasn't around" as in not available at the moment.:) I'm the last person you would ever ask for an opinion about anything. I know that and I respect that we don't agree on anything at all.

 

I would suggest, however, that when looking at a past in which you did not live, that you consider opinions from many sources. One opinion about anything is no way to make a judgement.

 

As you can see from my posts about the past, I have looked at the glass as half full my entire life. Perhaps that's why I have such fond memories of a time you weren't even born.

 

On the other hand, a half empty glass ... remembering the negative instead of the positive about anything (including our cruises) .. is a half empty life as far as I'm concerned. So I'll take my view anyday.

 

I know it's sounds very pollyannaish, but every cloud has a silver lining for me ... no cruise is a bad cruise and no meal is a bad meal and no opinion, whether I agree or not, is completely wrong.

[HeatherInFlorida]

............"From time to time".......Well, that's a deal-breaker for us.............

I though I read a post saying that on a recent sailing Anytime was not available because of a large group, but I was hoping it was a fluke, not policy.

 

So, let's see if I understand the current HAL policy.

For those who want traditional, HAL refuses to confirm it - NO MATTER HOW FAR IN ADVANCE THEY BOOK.

 

For those who want Anytime, HAL will confirm it, but they aren't really promising anything.

 

Nice policy. :confused: It will work well for those who don't really care much one way or the other. :rolleyes: .......................

 

I was so happy to see Dina capsulize in a nutshell what so many of us have been saying all along.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with offering choice as long as you can be confirmed with that choice by the time you make final payment at the very least.

That's all we ever said. Confirm our choice whatever it may be.

 

As Dena says in her post ... not getting what we want can be the deal breaker, no matter what that choice may be.

[Opinions]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with offering choice as long as you can be confirmed with that choice by the time you make final payment at the very least.

 

In my opinion choice of seating should be guaranteed at time of booking...Because of pre existing conditions we must purchase most cruise policies at that time...I doubt that many insurance companies would refund our insurance fee because we cancelled because we couldn't get our preferred dining.

 

Actually HAL isn't actually offering a real choice...They have said AYWD may not be available on all cruises because they may use that space for groups.

[RevNeal]

In my opinion choice of seating should be guaranteed at time of booking...[/Quote]

 

I agree. And, eventually, there really should be no problem in doing so. Perhaps not during the transition, when the staff is still figuring out how to make it work ... but later, once they have experience with it, I would expect that such should be possible.

 

Actually HAL isn't actually offering a real choice...They have said AYWD may not be available on all cruises because they may use that space for groups.

 

That's what many who want Traditional have been saying about our inability to get confirmations for Traditional Dining ... and we've been beaten up for it, too.

 

However, I don't think that the concern is as critical as it is sometimes made out to be. groups are important, true, but most cruises don't have large-enough groups aboard for it to impact AYWD for the rest of the passenger census. I won't pretend to know percentages, but I can't imagine that more than a handful of cruises a year would be so-impacted. And, quite frankly, you wouldn't want to be on such cruises anyway ... groups that large cause severe problems for the rest of the passengers in ways other than just dining options.

[hammybee]

"From time to time".......Well, that's a deal-breaker for us. Period. Unless we can cancel without penalty when this becomes known to HAL and HAL will pay the price difference (if any) for us to book a comprable Princess sailing. However, I understand that HAL refuses to reveal when large groups have booked. So we won't know until after boarding. We didn't cruise for almost 18 years because a table for two (with table service - not the buffet) is an absolute requirement and something we will not gamble on.

 

I though I read a post saying that on a recent sailing Anytime was not available because of a large group, but I was hoping it was a fluke, not policy.

 

So, let's see if I understand the current HAL policy.

For those who want traditional, HAL refuses to confirm it - NO MATTER HOW FAR IN ADVANCE THEY BOOK.

 

For those who want Anytime, HAL will confirm it, but they aren't really promising anything.

 

Nice policy. :confused: It will work well for those who don't really care much one way or the other. :rolleyes:

 

 

Why is HAL so dependent of groups? Princess has Anytime dining and I have never heard of being suspended because of a large group. Certainly, it is not the written policy of Princess.

 

Where to start......

 

Cruise lines in general will not confirm large group bookings as it is proprietary information. Such disclosure also puts the cruise line, any cruise line, at a competitive disadvantage. And lastly, disclosure is not in the best interest of a cruise line, any cruise line, because those who fear large groups ( groupaphobia ? :D ) will be less inclined to book the cruise.

It's not fair but it is what it is and such practice is not limited to HAL.

 

All cruise lines are dependent upon group bookings to fill their cabins. Group bookings appear to be a growing niche for HAL on their 7 day sailings. I am thinking that the size of the ship, number of balcony cabins and perception that it is a notch or two above most other cruise lines, helps the groups sell the cabins they have optioned.

 

The 6/17 sailing of the Noordam had several large groups onboard and indeed those groups were assigned to the lower level dining room and AYWD was suspended for non-group passengers. It's a two-way street and groups have and will continue to trump individual passengers on all cruise lines. Despite that the largest of these groups was in excess of 500 passengers, those non group passengers on this sailing, who checked in on CC, were unaware of their presence. I am hopeful that HAL and the group organizers are learning from experience how to manage the process.

 

It appears that some passengers on some sailings continue to receive confirmation of their dining choices upon initial booking. I suspect many are Deluxe Suite bookings, whereby the passengers are paying a premium for priority, over others. All passengers have the choice to pay for the perks associated with Deluxe Suites. Most passengers do not because the premium is not worth it to them and/or they choose to not spend as much. It's a choice.

 

I am sorry that you chose to not cruise for on any cruise line for 18 years due to uncertainties of securing a table for two. Given that so many ohers feel as you do and received what they requested, I am not sure why you did not.

[Opinions]

The 6/17 sailing of the Noordam had several large groups onboard and indeed those groups were assigned to the lower level dining room and AYWD was suspended for non-group passengers. It's a two-way street and groups have and will continue to trump individual passengers on all cruise lines.

 

 

That sounds like a one-way street to me?

[terrydtx]

all cruise lines are dependent upon group bookings to fill their cabins. Group bookings appear to be a growing niche for HAL on their 7 day sailings. I am thinking that the size of the ship, number of balcony cabins and perception that it is a notch or two above most other cruise lines, helps the groups sell the cabins they have optioned.

 

I prefer 10 day or more cruises, guess I will stay away from the HAL 7 day itineraries.