The 'As You Wish' Concept

[Copper10-8]

Here's that entrance (only a partial view, sorry) to the 'large part' ( in the two pics, to the right of Raj, the Asst Dining Room Manager and in the other one to the right of Maria and her nightly mission for mints from Frederick, the Yum Yum Man)

[HeatherInFlorida]

Ahoy!

I started this thread as a philosophical concept, i.e., how would this impact your life if we 'did' everything on the 'As You Wish" basis. ..................

 

Threads do take on a mind of their own, don't they? I was interested in your initial concept.

 

Truth be known, I remember when we didn't make doctor appointments. We arrived "as we wished" and waited and waited and waited and waited...........:o

Do you mean the two areas of the La Fontaine Dining Room: the large area in aft and a narrow area on the starboard side? I have not yet been aboard the Prinsendam, but I was under the impression that it was still one dining room.

 

These are 2 entirely separate dining rooms contrary to what John says below. However, he is correct about there only being one entrance to the DR. You do not, however, have to go through the narrow DR to get to another deck. There are actually elevators and a main stairway separating them.

 

I know this because if you went to the Ocean Bar before dinner you had to go through the narrow portion of the DR to get to the larger part. This could be a long wait.

 

But if you came down the stairs or the elevator, you could enter the main part of the dining room without ever going into the narrow part.

 

I'm hoping this diagram comes up!!!!!

 

 

The La Fontaine is currently used as one big dining room with two seatings however, there are a set of fire doors where the long end on the starboard side ends and the larger portion that covers the entire width of the aft part of Prinsendam begins. Here's a couple of problems:

 

#1 There is only one entrance/exit to the 'large part' of the La Fontaine and that is via the 'narrow part' (even if you take the aft stairwell, it still deposits you at the end of the 'narrow part') so if you want to call it 'two dining rooms' be aware that you can't get to the one in 'the back' unless you go through the one 'on the side';) .

 

#2 The 'narrow part" is just that: narrow. I don't believe it comes close to even half the capacity of the 'large part'. Plus there's only that central aisle to walk through.

 

...........................

 

[RevNeal]

Doug or Bruce? Who's on first?;)

 

Ooops ... Bruce!! I meant Bruce! Sorry!

[RevNeal]

Threads do take on a mind of their own, don't they? I was interested in your initial concept.

 

Truth be known, I remember when we didn't make doctor appointments. We arrived "as we wished" and waited and waited and waited and waited...........:o

 

 

These are 2 entirely separate dining rooms contrary to what John says below. However, he is correct about there only being one entrance to the DR. You do not, however, have to go through the narrow DR to get to another deck. There are actually elevators and a main stairway separating them.

 

I know this because if you went to the Ocean Bar before dinner you had to go through the narrow portion of the DR to get to the larger part. This could be a long wait.

 

But if you came down the stairs or the elevator, you could enter the main part of the dining room without ever going into the narrow part.

 

I'm hoping this diagram comes up!!!!!

 

 

 

So ... if you come down/up the stairs and go to the right and around the corner you don't have to go THROUGH the narrow starboard-side portion of the dining room. Ok ... makes sense.

 

HOWEVER ... I don't see too many people by-passing that narrow starboard side to head back to the larger area of the Dining room ... and especially not when coming from cocktails in the Ocean Bar! Hence, if they put traditional there (and, thereby, SEVERELY LIMIT the size of the traditional area) it's going to make for VERY annoying traffic patterns.

 

The difficult thing will be that AYW people will not be happy with a tiny dining room, like that area on the starboard side forward the aft stairs. That's NOT a large area, so AYW would be high restricted in terms of availability. However ... perhaps, given the nature of the ship and her itineraries (and likely appeal to traditionalists), that would still be the best option.

[serendipity1499]

Threads do take on a mind of their own, don't they? I was interested in your initial concept.

 

These are 2 entirely separate dining rooms contrary to what John says below. However, he is correct about there only being one entrance to the DR. You do not, however, have to go through the narrow DR to get to another deck. There are actually elevators and a main stairway separating them.

 

I know this because if you went to the Ocean Bar before dinner you had to go through the narrow portion of the DR to get to the larger part. This could be a long wait.

 

But if you came down the stairs or the elevator, you could enter the main part of the dining room without ever going into the narrow part. quote

 

Thanks Heather that is exactly the way we remembered it...While many who were in the Ocean Bar did walk through the smaller dining room others came down the aft elevator or used the aft staircase.. There always were lots of people coming into the rear area from other decks..We always came up the rear staircase from our Main deck cabins & went straight into the aft Dining room, since we don't usually have cocktails before dinner, but prefer to have wine with dinner..

 

If Passengers go directly to the Show room then they might walk through the smaller DR, but we always went back to our cabins first..

 

Cheers..:) Betty

[Copper10-8]

Yup, I was wrong, let the beatings begin;) ! Forgot about the aft elevators, thanks for the diagram, Heather. Seems like we always entered the 'wide' portion via the 'narrow' portion probably because we were always hanging out in the Ocean Bar prior to dinner. I do remember that there sometimes was a back-up that went into the 'narrow' portion of the La Fontaine.

We also, at times, took that semi-circular stairway down from Explorers Lounge that dumps you into the 'narrow' part of the LF. Personally speaking, I don't feel that the 'narrow' portion is a real great place to have your dinner table on Prinsendam.

[serendipity1499]

Personally speaking, I don't feel that the 'narrow' portion is a real great place to have your dinner table on Prinsendam.

 

I agree, we would rather be in the Main DR...Also believe that several people were complaining that the small room was extremely noisy, but can't be sure..My thoughts would be that most Prinsendam Passengers would still opt for Traditional & HAL will use the small room for As You wish Dining..

 

We thoroughly enjoyed being in the Main DR, although we were a bit segregated from the Open part..We were seated at the closest table to rail which is just to the right side of the entrance..There are three round tables for 8 together & we sat at the Middle table...The two tables on either side of us were usually empty, so we had our wonderful DR Stewards all to ourselves.. We had fantastic service :) & such good fun with them..

 

JMO..:) Betty

[HeatherInFlorida]

Yup, I was wrong, let the beatings begin;) ! Forgot about the aft elevators, thanks for the diagram, Heather. ........................Personally speaking, I don't feel that the 'narrow' portion is a real great place to have your dinner table on Prinsendam.

 

LOL!!!! No beatings, John!!!:D But knowing how well you know and love the Prinsendam, your post had me in a whirl of confusion!:)

 

In fact, I actually questionned my recollection and that's why I Googled for the diagram when I couldn't access the HAL site.

 

And I agree ... we made sure ahead of time that we would be seated in the larger DR. In fact, it was from what I read here that led me to do that.

[prescottbob]

Ahoy!

Since were off the original topic a tad I thought I give my observation(s) of the dining room on the Prinsendam, aka, the La Fontaine. True it does get bottled up with people passing by intially when seatings(s) are started primarily from those coming in from the Ocean Bar, Crow's Nest and forward sections of the ship. However, after everything settles down the atmosphere is quite delightful and more importantly, IMO, more intimate for couples that to prefer to dine alone (especially the two tops, which are limited, along the starboard windows). The so-called 'two tops' in the main dining room are actually six-tops pulled apart approx. 4 inches or less to give only the illusion of a table for two and a table for four. I also found the forward section less noisy. Table #7 is our favorite.

Just thought I'd pipe in respecectfully.

In any event, HAVE A GREAT CRUISE!

 

Bon Voyage and Good Health!

Bob:)

[CruiseBumm]

AYW is fine for those who wish it. Butfor me I apy for the service and the dinning may not be gormet or 5+stars. but it is a few cuts above Denny's or IHOP.

 

Each chooses his or her own idea of fine dinning. I respect each persons choice, but if I wish reserved seating at a predetermined time, than thats what I wish. Don't I deserve my AYW dinning also?:rolleyes:

[cathy_kearns]

Bruce,

 

You clearly don't know your history.

 

Seatings have been around since at least the 1950s.

 

True open seating has been done on high-end lines for years. BUT, you're assigned a table. Come whenever, between 6-9.

 

So Regent Seven Seas doesn't have "True" open seating? On Regent last summer we could show up whenever we wanted and have a choice of a table for just our party, or a table with other guests. If we chose other guests they would seat us at a large table with other guests who had also just been seated. If we wanted to sit at a table for two, or perhaps a table for four with another couple we just met, they would do that. We usually chose the table with others, and sometimes it was people traveling solo. We always were seated with sociable, interesting people. After all, if they didn't feel all the social that night they would have opted for a table by themselves.

 

So the table wasn't assigned, and certainly wasn't the same table every night.

[esther e]

So Regent Seven Seas doesn't have "True" open seating? On Regent last summer we could show up whenever we wanted and have a choice of a table for just our party, or a table with other guests. If we chose other guests they would seat us at a large table with other guests who had also just been seated. If we wanted to sit at a table for two, or perhaps a table for four with another couple we just met, they would do that. We usually chose the table with others, and sometimes it was people traveling solo. We always were seated with sociable, interesting people. After all, if they didn't feel all the social that night they would have opted for a table by themselves.

 

So the table wasn't assigned, and certainly wasn't the same table every night.

 

 

Absolutely, Regent has "true" open seating. We've been on 9 of their cruises as well as 3 Oceania, and they are the same as far as dining. And incidentally, we have never had to wait for a table, whether it's just the two of us or a group.

[cathy_kearns]

Absolutely, Regent has "true" open seating. We've been on 9 of their cruises as well as 3 Oceania, and they are the same as far as dining. And incidentally, we have never had to wait for a table, whether it's just the two of us or a group.

 

If HAL can pull off the AYW dining to be like Regent's it will be extremely popular. But if waits become common, I think it will not be well received.

[terrydtx]

I don't understand the resistance to AYW dining -- it's like you have to have all your decisions made for you ahead of time -- HELLO? I think I can decide WHEN I want to have dinner, WHERE I want to have dinner, WITH WHOM I want to have dinner, and WHAT I want to drink beforehand...

 

When you go to a land based restaurant, does the restaurant tell you what time you have to be there? Do they tell you that you HAVE to dine with 4 or 6 or 8 strangers?

 

Very well stated, and for those of us who preferr to eat when "we" want to eat in the fine dining room we now have the choice of chosing a premium line like HAL over a less than premium NCL.

[NoNoNanette]

Very well stated, and for those of us who preferr to eat when "we" want to eat in the fine dining room we now have the choice of chosing a premium line like HAL over a less than premium NCL.

 

Kindly let me preface this by saying that I LOVE HAL. I'm HOOKED.

 

But..... I really question your description of Holland America as being a "premium line".

 

I've been tempted to try a "premium" line, but the prices seem so far-out, that I'm no longer considering them... for now, anyway.

 

I guess that "premium" is in the eyes of the beholder.... much like "proper dress" is. :)

[Copper10-8]

Kindly let me preface this by saying that I LOVE HAL. I'm HOOKED.

 

But..... I really question your description of Holland America as being a "premium line".

 

I've been tempted to try a "premium" line, but the prices seem so far-out, that I'm no longer considering them... for now, anyway.

 

I guess that "premium" is in the eyes of the beholder.... much like "proper dress" is. :)

 

I'm keeping my premium eye on your beholder, NNN;)

Here's some fuel for that little campfire::rolleyes:

The World Ocean & CruiseLiner Society identifies Regent Seven Seas Cruises, The Yachts of Seabourn, Silversea Cruises, and Crystal Cruises as Premium or Ultra Deluxe cruise lines.

Categorized as Deluxe 5-star Plus lines so, a tad below are: Holland America Line:) , Oceania Cruises, SeaDream Yacht Club, Windstar Cruises and Peter Deilman's "Deutschland" (only ocean-going cruise ship, rest are river cruise ships)

Deluxe 5-star are identified as: Princess Cruises, Cunard Line, Celebrity Cruises and Disney Cruise Line.

The only High Superior 4-star Plus line is: Carnival Cruise Lines

 

Superior 4-star are: Costa Cruise Line, Orient Line, and Royal Caribbean International.

Categorized as Standard 4-star lines are: Norwegian Cruise Line and MSC Cruises.

WOCLS categorizes as Specialty Cruises the following lines: Majestic America Line, Cruise West, Star Clipper Cruises, American Cruise Lines, Discovery World Cruises, Viking River Cruises and Norwegian Coastal Voyage Inc.

[bUU]

I really question your description of Holland America as being a "premium line".

I tend to agree. I would connect the word "premium" with a cruise line that you "pay a premium" for -- you pay extra to get more. I chose HAL because it was the low-cost provider, the opposite of paying a premium.

[NoNoNanette]

Good afternoon, my handsome Copper-Bopper! (An old Ohio term from the 80's) *she sez fondly*

 

Keep your eyes right here, baby! ;)

 

************************

 

Bicker- Precisely! We'd been under the impression that HAL was an "expensive geriatric cruiseline" for years. Then, for the helluvit, we priced an itinerary that we liked.

 

Their pricing is highly competitive, and not the least bit conducive towards drawing those who are looking for a "PREMIUM" Cruising Experience.

 

Again.... I'm not being negative towards HAL.... can't WAIT for our next cruise!

[kryos]

But..... I really question your description of Holland America as being a "premium line".

I agree with you. I love how people refer to HAL as "premuim." What makes it more premium than say Princess or Cunard?

 

To me, premium means you pay a bit more to get a bit more. To me, something like Grill Class on Cunard or perhaps an all-inclusive line would truly be premium. Those lines charge more, and they generally have smaller, more intimate ships ... where service is definitely kicked up a notch. And this would even include Cunard when you consider that there really are not that many grill class passengers on the boat.

 

HAL is a wonderful line ... and it's my line of choice. But I wouldn't necessarily consider it any more premium than other lines. You get the same basic ammenities for the same basic price. You get standard cabin accommodations for the class cabin you book. You eat in the same dining room regardless of your booked accommodations, enjoying the same food and the same service as everyone else.

 

You will pay for soda and water and drinks ... just like on every other line. You will pay to play bingo or use the spa facilities. So, again, I ask ... where is the premium designation coming from? Yes, the ships are elegant, but then that's HAL's trademark. Other cruise lines have other trademarks ... such as kid-friendly ammenities like ice skating rinks and rock climbing walls. HAL's just happens to be fresh flowers and lots of art. It's the things that draw the HAL brand of consumer.

 

To me a true premium line is one that people pay a premium to sail and thus fully expect to get a higher level of service and ammenities; i.e., lower crew to guest ratio, some or all drinks included, free water and soda, etc. HAL is not a line where you are gonna find this ... no matter what accommodations on the boat you book. It's just the way it is.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[RevNeal]

Here is a different way of defining the rankings (a way that I tend to think is probably more accurate for today):

 

Found at: smartertravel.com --

 

What is a mainstream cruise?

Often referred to as resort, contemporary, or mass-market cruises, these ships provide an experience similar to that of a resort. The hallmarks of the mainstream cruise lines are large ships and plentiful activities. The ships usually hold 1,000 to 3,000 guests, and because of the sheer number of people, you may find smaller standard cabins, long lines, and acceptable (but not amazing) service. On the plus side, these ships offer an incredible number of activities. "Anything they can think of to put on a ship, they do," says Mike Wild, vice president of industry affairs for Cruise Planners in Coral Springs, FL. "You can do everything from napkin folding to ice carving to climbing a wall." Ships can have multiple pools, waterslides, ice skating rinks, rock-climbing walls, and several lounges and dance clubs. Mainstream cruises also are the best for families with children, as the ships include children- and teen-specific lounges and activities.

 

Mainstream cruises tend to cost $100 to $350 per person per day. Mainstream lines include Carnival, Costa, Disney, Norwegian, and Royal Caribbean

 

What is a premium cruise?

Premium cruises offer many of the activities of a mainstream line, but with more upscale amenities and service. Ships range from mid-sized to large, holding between 500 and 1,500 guests. Staterooms will be slightly more spacious than in mainstream ships, food will be more gourmet, and the decor more elegant or conservative. You'll have plenty of choices for activities, but without the summer camp sensibility that mainstream cruises have. Children are welcome, but facilities won't be as extensive as on the mainstream ships.

 

Premium cruises tend to cost $150 to $400 per person per day. Premium lines include Celebrity, Holland America, Princess, and Oceania.

 

What is a luxury cruise?

 

Luxury cruises offer the utmost in personalized service. Ships to tend to be smaller, holding from 100 to 1,000 passengers, but staterooms tend to be bigger and often all cabins are suites or have balconies. The space to guest ratio is high and the staff to guest ratio is often two to one, leading to excellent service. Amenities will be high quality, with many little touches such as designer linens and bath products and fresh flowers. Alcoholic beverages and gratuities are often included in the cruise price, as opposed to mainstream and premium cruises. The itineraries tend to include more exotic and international destinations, and cruise lengths are longer, anywhere from seven days to several-month world cruises. Ship activities are confined to guest lecturers and cooking demonstrations, art auctions, and other refined pasttimes; you usually won't find loud, all-night discos or bingo competitions on a luxury sailing.

 

Luxury cruises tend to cost $400 to $1,000 per person per day. Luxury lines include Crystal, Radisson Seven Seas, Seabourn, and Silversea.

[bUU]

Here is a different way of defining the rankings (a way that I tend to think is probably more accurate for today):

Premium cruises offer many of the activities of a mainstream line, but with more upscale amenities and service.

No one has provided a clear list of such amenities and service, that would differentiate Noordam from Serenade of the Seas.

 

Ships range from mid-sized to large, holding between 500 and 1,500 guests.

Noordam serves 1918 passengers.

 

Staterooms will be slightly more spacious than in mainstream ships

Nope, just about the same size -- a marginal difference at best, based on the numbers.

 

food will be more gourmet

From the photos and reviews, all indications are Noordam and Serenade of the Seas will be completely comparable.

 

I cannot imagine a way to measure anything in today's travel and leisure industry that is more accurate than money.

[kryos]

I cannot imagine a way to measure anything in today's travel and leisure industry that is more accurate than money.

I have to say that I agree with this. We can call HAL a premium line, but is it truly a "premium" line on all ships? Maybe the Prisendam, a very small and elegant ship, may be considered premium ... but what about the Zuiderdam, the Westerdam or the Noordam? Those ships aren't much smaller than some of the Carnival or RCL ships. Sorry, but I honestly wouldn't consider them any more premium than one of those ships. They are just "different" ... that's all.

 

Sure, HAL would like people to believe they are a premium line. Who wouldn't? The fact is that while some ships in the HAL fleet may possibly be considered premium grade ... it would be a real stretch to consider the whole line as anything more than another mass market cruise line.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[RevNeal]

No one has provided a clear list of such amenities and service, that would differentiate Noordam from Serenade of the Seas.

 

Noordam serves 1918 passengers.

 

Nope, just about the same size -- a marginal difference at best, based on the numbers.

 

From the photos and reviews, all indications are Noordam and Serenade of the Seas will be completely comparable.

 

I cannot imagine a way to measure anything in today's travel and leisure industry that is more accurate than money.

 

bicker, once you've actually cruised on HAL you will be in a far better position to answer these questions than (certainly) I. From my own perspective, the pre-Vista HAL vessels (and S and R class ships) certainly matched the descriptions, and more than just marginally.

[RevNeal]

I have to say that I agree with this. We can call HAL a premium line, but is it truly a "premium" line on all ships? Maybe the Prisendam, a very small and elegant ship, may be considered premium ... but what about the Zuiderdam, the Westerdam or the Noordam? Those ships aren't much smaller than some of the Carnival or RCL ships. Sorry, but I honestly wouldn't consider them any more premium than one of those ships. They are just "different" ... that's all.

 

See my post, above, Rita. You're in a better position to say than either of us, having been aboard HAL (one Vista, and mostly R-class ships) and on ships of other lines. Nevertheless, you're also generalizing (which cannot be avoided). HAL has at least one characteristic of a Luxury Line that most of the Mainstreams do NOT have many of (other than for repositioning) but Premiums DO have: many itineraries of extended length and wide-ranging breadth. You, yourself, have enjoyed some of those.

 

Also, consider the price ranges listed:

 

Mainstream: $100 to $350 per person per day

Premium: $150 to $400 per person per day

Luxury: $400 to $1,000 per person per day

 

Note those ranges overlap significantly between Mainstream and Premium, but almost none (a $1 overlap!) between Premium and Luxury. This means that the differences between Mainstream and Premium will be LESS about the dollar values and more about how the product is presented and the general atmosphere being presented aboard ship.

 

I have to book an inside lower-level cabin in order to get close to $150 pp/pd on HAL (without factoring in the single supplement), and then it usually has to be on one of the more frequented itineraries. Run the numbers for one of the more exotic cruises -- particularly those of any real length. How much were they pp/pd (factor OUT the ss). My own observation is that, for cruises of 10 days or longer, it's HARD to get that figure much bellow $200 pp/pd unless one is in an MM cabin.

 

For instance, my up-coming cruise on the Volendam we're paying $210 pp/pd for a 10-day cruise in an outside cabin midships on maindeck. We might have been able to find it cheaper had we shopped more, but we're happy with this TA for these kinds of bookings.

 

The Eurodam's inaugural is going to be horrendously expensive ... on the order of a Luxury cruise's pp/pd lower-range. Yes ... right at $400 pp/pd. But, that's a special case (maiden Cruise, aft verandah, etc). If my second cruise (July 15th) aboard her were going to be double-occupency, my fair for the second week in an inside MM cabin would be: $194.70 pp. As it is I'm paying (with single supplement) $285.15 per day.

 

I guess the last time I got close to going under $150 pp/pd was aboard the Noordam this past January (again, if one factors out the single supplement). But those January runs of the Noordam were notoriously cheap.

 

What's the average for an Alaska cruise this year? I priced (online with a major discounter) ONE such cruise, in MM category double occupancy, just to see: $223.88 pp/pd (that was for a late September cruise, if booked today ... booking for next year returns a far better rate for an inside cabin. Maybe I'll take my Mom on a cruise to Alaska next May?)

[bUU]

bicker, once you've actually cruised on HAL you will be in a far better position to answer these questions than (certainly) I.

Yes, in the meantime all I can rely on is the photos and reviews of others, and like I mentioned, all indications are Noordam and Serenade of the Seas will be completely comparable. OH! And also the pricing, where HAL comes in as the low-cost provider.

 

From my own perspective, the pre-Vista HAL vessels (and S and R class ships) certainly matched the descriptions, and more than just marginally.

Indeed, and the post-Vista HAL vessels are apparently going to be even larger than Vista class. All indications are that they will be even less like what you remember HAL to be than the Vista class ships are.