Princess intimidation tactics

[Jolynn2262]

I decided to place this under a new thread because if this has been an on going problem and one that still exists I think perhaps it needs to be directly addressed to Princess. I am very proactive and will do this if enough people are still having a problem.

 

That said, I am also one who in person, tends to follow rules, listens to authority, and does get intimidated especially in a country such a Russia where it is VERY important to obey the customs laws. I travel solo and I suppose that makes me more leary. You know, safety in numbers and all that when confronting a problem or something that just isn't right. On the phone I'm relentless, in person, not so much. Anyway...

 

I have read now on a few posts that Princess is really intimidating their passengers who choose private tours through Denrus and the like when it is time to disembark. I want no hassles with security guards or to be yelled at to get into a long line that I do not need to be in. Has anyone recently returned from a Baltics cruise aboard Princess and had this problem? Are they still trying to discriminate against passengers who have a valid visa tour just not through them? Also, did you receive a letter from Princess telling you you couldn't do private tours? I have heard of this as well.

 

As I said, this issue needs to be addresed if they are. I am not sailing until July of 08 so I have plenty of time to be on that phone, although I've heard their customer relations via telephone can be tough. It just seems as if these strong arm tactics of theirs are very unjust and need to be stopped.

 

I'm hoping to hear from many people who say they had no problem and that I am worrying over nothing. If you disagree with what I posted please simply tell me of your experience (on Princess), don't become angry with what I am asking. I'm not bashing Princess, I'm simply worried about this issue since it seems to have come up more than once on this board and have no desire to be intimidated in Russia when trying to get to my Denrus tour.

[dog]

I will let you know how it went when I return Sept. 22nd.

 

quote:"Also, did you receive a letter from Princess telling you you couldn't do private tours? I have heard of this as well."

 

No, the letter did not say that.

Infact, if you read the booklets and letters carefully, you will find Princess does address passengers taking tours with Independent Licensed Tour Operators as well as getting their own Russian tourist visas before leaving home.

They clearly tell you what you need to do all 3 of these options.

 

However, they cover the information for their Princess excursions first.

You need to keep reading to get the full picture.

 

Anyway, I looked at all the Princess excursion departure times for St. Petersburg, and am going to try to get off when one of their big value excursions isn't getting off. This way I hope to avoid the big line up.

 

But I know it is a concern and I will let you know how it goes for us...soon.

 

dog

[samcraft]

You can take the tour either with the ship or arrange a private/local ground operator that has licensed access to the Cargo Port area where all the big ships are docked.

 

To take a tour one must have either an individual Russian visa OR a tour voucher/ticket from the local ground operator that confirms your arrangement with them. You ground operator shall submit your names and itinerary to the immigration authority.

 

The ships are always interested in selling their tours usually do anything possible to take their tours. Which is quite natural.

 

If you have already contracted you local tour operator and receive the tour tickets from them, when the ship is clear, you may proceed to the gangway and go through the immigration control.

 

Please have a photocopy of your passport (only for day one), you valid passport and the tour ticket for that particular date.

 

Please note that your ground operator or its representative/guide must have access to the port area. Otherwise, even if you hold an individual visa the immigration authorities might want to see your tour company representative present at the pier and not at the port gates that are 3 miles away.

[eh2zed]

Jolynn, Princess is not the only cruise line that tries to create the perception that you can only take ship tours. They are preying on the continuing notion of most from NA that Russia is still closed.

[Jolynn2262]

Thanks for all your relpies. The tour company I'm looking at is Denrus so yes, they provide all the info/vias and they come to the ship. I wasn't meaning to say only Princess did this, it was simply I had read a few posts where people had said they wouldn't allow the non Princess tour passengers to get into a line other than one long one, held them on the ship late, and had a security guard trying to corral them about and making things difficult after they disembarked and tried to get through immigration. As for the booklet, I'm sure that yes, I will get lots of info then that will make me feel better about all this (as did your posts). I appreciate being told that, thanks dog for letting me know because my cruise is way in the future so I haven't recevied anything as of yet.

[dbh62ark]

If you have already contracted you local tour operator and receive the tour tickets from them, when the ship is clear, you may proceed to the gangway and go through the immigration control.

This is correct. If the ship has been cleared, the cruise line does not have any legal authority to hold you on board the ship (and I know all passengers want to avoid creating a security issue that would delay you too). Celebrity also tries to intimidate passengers in this area to steer passengers toward the ship's excursions and lies by omission by stating that you need a visa in Russia (you don't as long as you tour with one of the tour operators that can provide your group visa). We simply ignored all the instructions by the cruise line and proceeded to leave the ship after it was cleared, so we didn't have a problem.

 

Have a great cruise,

Donna

[atlanta99]

We were on the Star last summer and used a private guide in St Petersburg. Although I had read similar warnings about Princess scare tactics on these threads before we left and although Princess does produce a number of publications both before and during your cruise to make you think this may happen, we did not encounter any discrimination when actually disembarking either morning. We just went down to the gangway and walked right off with everyone else and didn't see or hear anything about people being herded into special "non-tour" lines. That was last year, of course, and things may have changed--but I hope not.

[cruisemom42]

In May 2005 on Star Princess neither we nor anyone else in our private tour group had any problem. We were lined up and ready to go when the ship was cleared and we were probably in the first 10-15 people off the ship -- no problem. No one said anything at all other than normal disembarkation info.

[Jolynn2262]

Thank you all for your replies. I'm still not set on what I will be doing, but I feel better about the whole disembarkation in St. Petersburg.

[ollienbertsmum]

Royal Caribbean said that we would not be able to leave until 9.30 am. Thankfully I had been paying attention to CC and was able to tell the rest of my party to ignore it. We left befoe 7.30 am. It was just a lie, which I found irritating and gave them feedback about it. They probably ignore that too.

[the teacher]

We just returned from the May 10 sailing. We used Red October. We were one of the first groups off. No problem what so ever. In the bus by 8 and on our way. They actually let the private tour people off first because the people taking the princess tours had to wait in a room. Do not worry about anything.

[MercedMike]

I am glad to hear first hand reports that there is no problem with individual tours in Russia.

 

I do want to comment, however, that I really do not think Princess is trying to "intimidate" anyone. Of course they like to sell their tours, and they state that IF you are on one of their tours you do not need to worry about a visa.

 

They also provide notice that IF you are not on one of their tours, YOU need to determine what the visa requirements are, and be sure you are in compliance. Certainly, Princess would be foolish to tell passengers that they do NOT need an individual visa if they are traveling with another tour company. Princess cannot accept the responsibility of ensuring that, of determining that you are using a properly licensed tour company, that the tour company is complying with the regulations, and that the rules will not change. They simply say that you need a visa and it is up to you to determine what documents you need, and that Princess will accept no responsibility.

 

In fact that is what they say about any cruise, including the Caribbean. So what is the big deal about "intimidation" in Russia? You are warned that it is your responsibility, and advised that if you book their tours you don't have to worry about that responsibility. Seems fair to me.

[SoCalGal]

I talked to my TA about this very subject, whether or not to do private tours in places like Russia. She said there has been lots of problems with many of the tours and if you have any problems with the tour or even with the authorities in Russia the cruiseline can't always help. She didn't mention Princess or any other cruiseline.

[ontheweb]

I decided to place this under a new thread because if this has been an on going problem and one that still exists I think perhaps it needs to be directly addressed to Princess. I am very proactive and will do this if enough people are still having a problem.

 

That said, I am also one who in person, tends to follow rules, listens to authority, and does get intimidated especially in a country such a Russia where it is VERY important to obey the customs laws. I travel solo and I suppose that makes me more leary. You know, safety in numbers and all that when confronting a problem or something that just isn't right. On the phone I'm relentless, in person, not so much. Anyway...

 

I have read now on a few posts that Princess is really intimidating their passengers who choose private tours through Denrus and the like when it is time to disembark. I want no hassles with security guards or to be yelled at to get into a long line that I do not need to be in. Has anyone recently returned from a Baltics cruise aboard Princess and had this problem? Are they still trying to discriminate against passengers who have a valid visa tour just not through them? Also, did you receive a letter from Princess telling you you couldn't do private tours? I have heard of this as well.

 

As I said, this issue needs to be addresed if they are. I am not sailing until July of 08 so I have plenty of time to be on that phone, although I've heard their customer relations via telephone can be tough. It just seems as if these strong arm tactics of theirs are very unjust and need to be stopped.

 

I'm hoping to hear from many people who say they had no problem and that I am worrying over nothing. If you disagree with what I posted please simply tell me of your experience (on Princess), don't become angry with what I am asking. I'm not bashing Princess, I'm simply worried about this issue since it seems to have come up more than once on this board and have no desire to be intimidated in Russia when trying to get to my Denrus tour.

 

We're just back having been in St. Petersburg on 8/15 8/16. We did a tour with Alla with no problem. In fact, our group of 10 decided to meet early by the purser's desk so we could all get off the ship as soon as it was cleared and before the large Princess tour groups.

 

I agree Princess makes it sound as if private tours would be a problem, but they are not. When we told other passengers what we had done, they would ask about the extra expense for a visa. We would tell them that just as they went off the ship on a Princess group visa, we went off on the group visa of our tour guide.

[dog]

We're just back having been in St. Petersburg on 8/15 8/16. We did a tour with Alla with no problem. In fact, our group of 10 decided to meet early by the purser's desk so we could all get off the ship as soon as it was cleared and before the large Princess tour groups.

 

I agree Princess makes it sound as if private tours would be a problem, but they are not. When we told other passengers what we had done, they would ask about the extra expense for a visa. We would tell them that just as they went off the ship on a Princess group visa, we went off on the group visa of our tour guide.

 

What time was "early"? And what time did your tour leave?

Can you also tell me how long it took your group to get through Immigration?

Thanks

[GuideDiva]

What time was "early"? And what time did your tour leave?

Can you also tell me how long it took your group to get through Immigration?

Thanks

 

Most ships arriving at the cargo port arrive from 6:30a.m. to 8:00a.m.. Customs clearance takes 30 minutes or less and then you can leave the ship any time after that.

 

According to my clients, one of the biggest frustrations is not knowing whether the threats from the cruise-line are true. There is a difference between the information sent out before the cruise and what happens on the ship. After reading a few of the letters sent I would also have been rather intimidated by their interpretation of the rules or by how much control they intend to exert if I did not know better and understand the laws. Intimidation is one word, lying is another for these letters.

What happens on the ship is different however, the crew and captain know better than to break the laws and do not interfere with passengers.

 

I can happily report that tours last week did not have the rude security person the ship hired to keep all independent tour passengers waiting in a single long line while the other 5 lines were empty. I heard that a lawyer who was mistreated had contacted Princess directly about a law suit. If that rumor is true or not, the single line commands were stopped. How the ship got a private non-immigration service security person in the waiting area is another question. Maybe, after all the complaints and delayed tours, the immigration officials took action.

 

For the SoCalGal; Has your travel agent been here? I would think she would know better if she had. Seek advice from passengers who have instead of an agent repeating rumors that are false. Tours do not have problems any more and probably less than ship tours, since the client is in contact with the people who conduct the tour. The ship tours are different, the passengers only has contact with a sales person, and only at the time of sale, who does not know anything about the tour and has no contact with the tour company they are contracting with. It might be wise to look for another travel agent who specializes and has direct experience in the destinations you are interested in. It is probably better to read the posts here and ask questions of people who have first hand experience with what you are concerned about, everyone seems so helpful here.

[ontheweb]

What time was "early"? And what time did your tour leave?

Can you also tell me how long it took your group to get through Immigration?

Thanks

 

The ship docked at 6:30, and that is when we met. It was right around 7 that the ship was cleared.

 

We all just marched to the gangway and went right off. Immigration was very quick. The agent just took the photocopy of the passport front page, stamped the passport, and gave each of us a little orange piece of paper. (to return, you must have this, or else there is a $50 fine.) We then all proceeded to the Alla vans. (right next to each other were the representatives of Alla, DenRus, and Red October.) It was a very quick process.

[tony@stanton19.freeserve.]

We did a private tour whilst on NCL at the end of June.

 

The ship's announcements are carefully worded to make you think that you have to wait until they have disembarked all the ship's tours before you can get off.

 

Having read these boards, I knew that this was not the case. I decided that the guys swiping your card to let you off the ship would not be in the slightest bit interested as to whether you had bought a ticket from the shorex operation or not. However I also saw that the ship would not want you to get in the way of said operations.

Also, the Russian immigration officials are only interested in their own rules, not those operated on the other side of the ship's doors! If you have the appropriate documentation, you pass through and off you go on whichever tour you have booked. Incidentally, it was all one line, no demarcation of ship v independent tours.

 

This is how we played it:

We waited for the announcement that the ship had cleared. We met with the other couple on our tour and allowed the ship to start disembarking.

After a short while we went down to the gangway and waited for a natural break in the disembarkation line and just got off. As expected, there were no questions from anyone.

 

 

I think it's just part of the misinformation that the cruiselines put out to protect their own operation. All travel companies do it, on package holidays, they paint a horrific picture of excursions/ car hire not booked through them. They use scare tactics eg lack of insurance and even saying that they will not help you if you haven't booked through them.

 

Don't worry about it, they won't stop you getting off at all. The worst they can do is make you wait until one tour bus has gone through, then let you off before the next tour comes down.

[MercedMike]

I talked to my TA about this very subject, whether or not to do private tours in places like Russia. She said there has been lots of problems with many of the tours and if you have any problems with the tour or even with the authorities in Russia the cruiseline can't always help. She didn't mention Princess or any other cruiseline.

 

Extremely good advice in every port on any cruise!!

 

However, there are also many reasons to use an independent operator in ports. One is to see sights that are not on the usual ship's tours. For example, we are working with a Russian tour operator to visit a craft shop and "paint your own matroyshka" while in St. Petersburg. Frankly that is more appealing to me than visiting some more cathedrals with the regular tours. Another is when you are somewhat mobility limited, as I am. With a private tour and our own personal guide, we can go at a pace that I can manage. Russia, and many other ports, include tours with a lot of walking so this is important to me.

 

We usually do a mix of ship's tours and private tours, depending on many circumstances. Consider your TA's advice carefully, read about the ports and the tour companies, and decide what risk/benefit combination you are willing to accept.

[MercedMike]

It is probably better to read the posts here and ask questions of people who have first hand experience with what you are concerned about, everyone seems so helpful here.

 

Well, this is the constant advice that is given by many posters on this board. Let's stop and think about it.

 

The cruise lines, and the Travel Agents, give excellent advice based on overall conditions and passenger safety. They are considering worst case scenarios, which DO happen, and stating facts which must be taken into consideration. It is extremely important that pax listen to what they are told by their Travel Agent and cruise line. It is also important to realize that they are selling a product and, like any other seller, may tend to slant things toward their product.

 

Posters on this board are a varied bunch, some with lots of first hand experience, some with a little first hand experience, many of them totally unacquainted with the actual rules and regulations which apply, many of them with little understanding of the many possible ramifications which their first hand experience did not include. Almost all of them have a particular slant to their posts and often very fixed opinions. (Yep, me too!)

 

One example is the very situation quoted by GuideDiva -- on at least ONE occasion, a situation developed where independent travellers were delayed an extremely long time. Yet if those pax were depending on ontheweb's first hand experience of disembarking at 7, they would have been very wrong. This could have had a serious effect on independent travel plans.

 

First hand experience can be valuable, when taken with a grain of salt and compared to lots of other people's experiences. Opinion frequently has to be sifted from fact. These boards are a lot of fun, and can provide valuable information, when used carefully. But they are in no way authoratitive or always dependable.

 

Caveat Emptor!

[alcorjd]

We were on HA in June. Initially we received the same letter. However, a cruise critic member from our ship contacted HA a month or two in advance, and with great diplomacy, arranged a SCHEDULED CC reception on the first day of the cruise with an HA rep in attendance. The CC member talked with the HA rep in advance about those of us taking private tours in St. Petersburg. The HA rep couldn't have been nicer--suggested to us that to avoid the long lines leaving on ship's excursions we should plan to leave as early as possible to join our private tours. So we did--with no lines.... We met our van just outside the passport checkpoint and were off long before the cruise ship busses.

 

I wish I had paid more attention to the assurances of other CC members on these boards--I expended far too much energy worrying about the St. Petersburg issues!