NCL Service Charge - Can this be changed? waved?

[Toyz711]

on this board? someone gets the last word....never happen.:D

[smeyer418]

(I am assuming for the purpose of this post that the "service charge" is mandatory and unchangeable. Who knows; I certainly don't?)

Until recently, if one committed any of a range of sins in one's cabin, from wiping the dust off one's shoes with a towel instead of a tissue because one's spouse was hogging the bathroom where the tissues were, to things I can't even imagine much less mention, one could be pretty sure the cabin steward would be tolerant since he would not want to risk a substantial tip. To the extent that his income is now guaranteed by the substitution of a service charge distributed by the cruise line for the traditional tip, it is to be expected that his loyalties will be transferred from the passenger to the cruise line and his tolerance much less sure (booze smugglers watch out).

Of course, many of the stewards will remain just as gracious and trustworthy as ever, but the loyalties of others will follow the money and, at first glance, the two kinds of steward look very much alike. Even passengers with nothing to hide, are likely to find that the service will suffer from less incentive.

On my next cruise (and possibly my last), I plan to tell the cabin steward, "I tip as though there were no service charge." It may seem strange that someone with the user name "Thrifty" would tip as much again as he has already contributed to the cabin steward's share of the pool, but it will be for the same reason he tipped before there was a service charge; to insure good service. I estimate that the additional tip will be about 2% of the cost of my cruise including airfare and should be worth it as insurance of our comfort in the cabin.

I am not going to try to have a "heart to heart" about tips three times a day with dozens of waiters, so I shall just have to take my chances with them.

So the cost of my cruise will go up a bit (cabin steward extra tip) and the service in the dining room is likely to go down a bit (waiters with less incentive).

Several contributors to this discussion have suggested that, if I don't like letting the cruise line decide which of the staff get my grant money, I should just stop cruising, which would mean going to a five star seaside hotel on some foreign coast probably at less expense than a four star cruise. While the hotel would be stationary in the absence of an earthquake, that might be less important than not having to submit to these changes in the cruise experience. Let us hope that it will still be some time before the last of the inexpensive cruise lines adopts the mandatory "service charge".

 

nonsense. No room steward wants to be fired let alone lose an extra tip. If they upbraided you it had to be a major issue which they were required to report. No cruise line wants its passengers yelled at by crew or taken to task for anything. People make up these nonsense scenarios again just to justify not tipping at all.

I don't think I ever said not to cruise if you don't like to tip but I am sure I did say of you can't afford these piddling amounts you shouldn't. I am also sure I said there are many cruise lines out there and if you don't like the way that NCL does it walk with you feet. But to say that the steward will yell at you if you don't follow his/her rules is just nonsense.

 

PS I wasn't around because I was in Egypt which included a river cruise. No mandatory tipping but I left about twice the recommended amount....

[mbisson]

 

PS I wasn't around because I was in Egypt which included a river cruise...

 

WOW!!! Sounds great!

[salty dingo]

To the extent that his income is now guaranteed by the substitution of a service charge distributed by the cruise line for the traditional tip, it is to be expected that his loyalties will be transferred from the passenger to the cruise line and his tolerance much less sure (booze smugglers watch out).

 

That was a carefully thought out theory, but I don't agree. Loyalty already is with the cruise line - that's the steward's employer. Here's why the auto tip is going to have no effect on the steward's treatment of the passenger: as long as the cruise line cares about how he treats passengers, and as long as passengers fill out the comment cards, the steward has an incentive to please us.

 

I don't think an extra tip to ensure good service is necessary or even advisable. I just don't think it makes any sense.

 

Stewards are sort of near the bottom of the career ladder. There is a TON of incentive for them to advance their careers and move up the hotel food chain. Treating passengers well is the best way to get ahead.

 

Maybe there are some that are only in it for the short term, and only care about the money, and they may act differently, but I think they are the minority.

[greywillow]

This whole business about how "if I don't personally hand the money to the person serving me he or she will provide lousy service for me because there's no incentive to provide good service" is just, as smeyer said, "nonsense." Ninety percent of the people in this country, including ninety percent of the people posting here, don't work for tips. So I suppose that means all of them do a lousy job? Including the high and mighty Thrifty, do you think? Or does his "nonsensical" generalization apply only to those serving him, but, of course, not to himself?

[johnritt]

This whole business about how "if I don't personally hand the money to the person serving me he or she will provide lousy service for me because there's no incentive to provide good service" is just, as smeyer said, "nonsense." Ninety percent of the people in this country, including ninety percent of the people posting here, don't work for tips. So I suppose that means all of them do a lousy job? Including the high and mighty Thrifty, do you think? Or does his "nonsensical" generalization apply only to those serving him, but, of course, not to himself?

 

I don't know, but I can tell you that I didn't slip my doctor an extra 20 before my last prostate exam, and oh boy, did that hurt.:D

[deepnite10]

I don't know, but I can tell you that I didn't slip my doctor an extra 20 before my last prostate exam, and oh boy, did that hurt.:D

 

wait till it s time for the colonoscopy :confused:

[salty dingo]

wait till it s time for the colonoscopy :confused:

 

What, were you planning to swallow the tip?

[mpk218]

What, were you planning to swallow the tip?

 

 

Good lord never swallow the tip :eek:

 

I cant believe this thread is still alive . You all can never agree when you come from half a dozen different countrys with different tipping rules .

Tip / dont tip , just take your finger out of my soup..

 

 

MPK

[beachchick]

sjbdtz:

 

This is one of the things which I think may confuse some people...the notion that a lot of CC members establish their generous nature by commenting that they'll tip extra.

 

Um, that wasn't what I was doing. I'm not establishing anything or trying to show my "generous nature." (If I was that generous, I'd do what some people do and overtip regardless of service. I'm not that generous and don't have the need to "prove" it.) I'm stating what we do regarding tipping as a general rule. I agree that it's not necessary to tip above the service charge. If people chose to do so, great; if not, also fine.

 

beachchick

[zqvol]

sjbdtz:

 

 

 

Um, that wasn't what I was doing. I'm not establishing anything or trying to show my "generous nature." (If I was that generous, I'd do what some people do and overtip regardless of service. I'm not that generous and don't have the need to "prove" it.) I'm stating what we do regarding tipping as a general rule. I agree that it's not necessary to tip above the service charge. If people chose to do so, great; if not, also fine.

 

beachchick

 

Any post mentioning the amount of a gratuity is nothing more than a feeble attempt at attempting to establish that the poster has a generous nature. There is NEVER a need to mention the amount of a gratuity in a post. It is also funny that any poster will think that a $10 -20 BRIBE to a steward on the first day of a cruise does anything to improve service. By the next morning where that gratuity has come from has been forgotten.

 

The service staff on all cruise lines provide excellent service because that is their job. In the long run they are much more concerned with keeping their job than they are with any single gratuity.

 

In the long run if a service staff member provides the appropriate level of service they are rewarded two or three ways: They receive a compensation package; they receive favorable comments on the comment cards; and most importantly they are offered another contract when theirs expires.

 

We can go back and forth ad nauseum about tipping and service charges, and how they are paid or collected, but in the end if you are concerned with the fact that the service charge is automatically collected instead of being "personally given to the staff member', what you are really saying is that you are trying to find a way to avoid paying the charge, and no arguing back and forth changes that fact.

[sjbdtz]

I love the idea of a seaside 5 star all-inclusive....where the poster seems to think that the loyalty of the attendants does NOT revolve around money :rolleyes:

 

 

Poster should compare retail salespeople in low-end chains (working for minimum wage (like those who have to rely on end-user tipping)) to those working in high-end boutiques, where the salaries are higher (protected by service charge).

 

While not meaning to offend anyone currently working in retail, there is a higher degree of professionalism attainable among workers to whom you can offer a higher earning expectation.

 

In other words, take the guesswork out of whether or not your salary includes a tip this week, and you're likelier to find more dedicated workers willing to take-on the task.

[smeyer418]

I love the idea of a seaside 5 star all-inclusive....where the poster seems to think that the loyalty of the attendants does NOT revolve around money :rolleyes:

 

 

Poster should compare retail salespeople in low-end chains (working for minimum wage (like those who have to rely on end-user tipping)) to those working in high-end boutiques, where the salaries are higher (protected by service charge).

 

While not meaning to offend anyone currently working in retail, there is a higher degree of professionalism attainable among workers to whom you can offer a higher earning expectation.

 

In other words, take the guesswork out of whether or not your salary includes a tip this week, and you're likelier to find more dedicated workers willing to take-on the task.

 

 

Most of the sales staff at high end boutiques are paid COMMISSION- they get a percentage of the sale. Commission is a form of tipping(it is a service charge built into the sales price of the goods) based upon what you buy so their renumeration can vary widely from nothing to a large amount. The reason they are professional is they know their clientèle wants and likes so return sales is important or they don't survive and it can be cut throat too. It sort of makes them a part owner...as their renumeration is tied directly to sales.

[dispachcops]

Since this topic comes up too many times, perhaps it needs to be made a "sticky", by taking the best posts out of all the past threads dealing with tipping/service charge removal and putting them all in the sticky. (of course, removing all the personal attacks along the way...)

[bamaboi1999]

Still beatin the dead horse I see. :D

[MrLee]

Still beatin the dead horse I see. :D

 

 

We want to be sure it's tenderized before the ship's buffet serves it.

 

;)

[Thrifty]

Someone suggested that more and more cruise lines were adopting the mandatory, no changes, service charge instead of auto-tipping subject to passenger changes, but when I tried to determine, using Google, which cruise lines, I came up with only NCL and maybe Oceania. I'm not a very sophisticated computer user, so I should be grateful if anyone who knows of other cruise lines that have adopted it would let us all know.

[mbisson]

Someone suggested that more and more cruise lines were adopting the mandatory, no changes, service charge instead of auto-tipping subject to passenger changes, but when I tried to determine, using Google, which cruise lines, I came up with only NCL and maybe Oceania. I'm not a very sophisticated computer user, so I should be grateful if anyone who knows of other cruise lines that have adopted it would let us all know.

 

 

You might find this article helpful:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/features/articles.cfm?ID=266

[electricron]

Someone suggested that more and more cruise lines were adopting the mandatory, no changes, service charge instead of auto-tipping subject to passenger changes, but when I tried to determine, using Google, which cruise lines, I came up with only NCL and maybe Oceania. I'm not a very sophisticated computer user, so I should be grateful if anyone who knows of other cruise lines that have adopted it would let us all know.

 

Let's check out what the other cruise lines state on their web sites.

 

Carnival

Service Gratuities

For your convenience, we automatically charge the gratuities for dining and stateroom staff to your onboard Sail & Sign account. The total amount is $10.00 per guest, per day (our recommended guideline) as follows:

$ 3.50 Per Day Stateroom Services

$ 5.50 Per Day Dining Room Services

$ 1.00 Per Day Alternative Services: distributed to other kitchen and hotel service staff

For Cruises-To-Nowhere, gratuities of $10 per guest, per day must be prepaid.

Our Staff is totally committed to exceed your expectations in every way possible. If you are not satisfied with the service you receive, we encourage you to contact the Purser’s Information desk while onboard. This will allow us to address your concerns in a timely and appropriate fashion. At your discretion, you may adjust the gratuities at any time.

 

Holland America

Hotel Service Charge

Our crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of your cruise meets the highest standards. This includes those crewmembers who serve you directly, such as dining room wait staff and the stewards who service your stateroom each day. There are also many others who support their efforts whom you may never meet, such as galley and laundry staff. To ensure that the efforts of all of our crewmembers are recognized and rewarded, a Hotel Service Charge of $10 per passenger is automatically added to each guest's shipboard account on a daily basis. If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you are free to adjust this amount at the end of the cruise. The Hotel Service Charge is paid entirely to Holland America Line crewmembers, and represents an important part of their compensation. A 15% service charge is automatically added to bar charges and dining room wine purchases.

 

Princess

Question: What are the tipping guidelines for my cruise?

Answer: During your cruise, you will meet many members of our staff in a variety of locations as they provide you with excellent service. Additionally, many more crew behind the scenes support those who serve you directly. For your convenience a Hotel and Dining charge of $10 per passenger per day (including children) will be automatically added to your shipboard account on a daily basis. The Hotel and Dining charge will be shared amongst those staff who help provide and support your cruise experience, including the wait staff, stateroom stewards and accommodations staff, buffet stewards, galley staff, laundry staff and others.

Casino dealers and Lotus Spa personnel do not share in the Hotel and Dining charge as not all passengers utilize these services.

A 15% charge is automatically added to your bar charges and dining room wine account. This is shared amongst the beverage staff and their support staff, including cleaners and utility staff.

 

Celebrity

How much do I pay in gratuities?

Subject: Payments

It is customary to offer gratuities to staff members you feel have given you exceptional service and personal attention. Celebrity suggests the following guidelines for all guests:

Waiter: $3.50 p/day

Assistant Waiter: $2.00 p/day

Butler (suites only): $3.50 p/day

Assistant Maitre'd: $0.75 p/day

Stateroom Service: $3.50 p/day

Stateroom Service (ConciergeClass): $4.00

Assistant Chief Housekeeper: .75 p/day

 

Royal Caribbean

Tipping - So that you can thank those who have made your cruise vacation better than you could have imagined, we've developed these gratuity guidelines:

Suite attendant: $5.75 USD a day per guest

Stateroom attendant: $3.50 USD a day per guest

Dining Room Waiter: $3.50 USD a day per guest

Assistant Waiter: $2.00 USD a day per guest

Headwaiter: $.75 USD a day per guest

Note: These gratuities apply to guests of all ages.

Gratuities for other service personnel are at your discretion. A 15% gratuity will automatically be added to your bar bill or wine check when you are served.

Envelopes for gratuities will be provided in your stateroom on the last night of the cruise. Gratuities may be paid in the following ways:

Pre paid by having them added to your reservation by your reservation agent.

Added to your onboard SeaPass account.

Paid in cash at the end of the cruise.

 

Disney

What about gratuities?

It is customary to give gratuities in recognition of service, which you will most likely be treated to in abundance aboard the ship. As a guideline, may we suggest the following:

 

Per Guest per cruise 3-Night 4-Night 7-Night

Dining Room Server $11.00 $14.75 $25.75

Dining Room Asst. Server $8.00 $10.75 $18.75

Dining Room Head Server $2.75 $3.75 $6.50

Stateroom Host/Hostess $10.75 $14.50 $25.25

Dining Manager Your Discretion

Room Service Your Discretion

Palo Gratuity included

Vista Spa & Salon Your Discretion

Babysitting Gratuity not expected

Shore Excursions Optional; not included in shore excursion price.

For your convenience, a 15% gratuity is automatically added to bar, beverage, wine and deck service tabs. All gratuities can be charged to your room charge.

 

Oceania

or your convenience, a suggested gratuity in recognition of outstanding personal service of $11.50 per Guest, per day, will be automatically added to your onboard account for your stateroom attendant and all restaurant staff. All dining room staff gratuities are combined in a pool due to the fact that the ships offer multiple open-seating dining venues and you will likely be served by many different staff members during the course of your stay onboard.

Guests occupying Penthouse, Vista, or Owner’s Suites will have an additional $3.50 gratuity per Guest, per day added in recognition of outstanding Butler Service. An 18% gratuity is automatically added to all beverage purchases and spa and salon services.

 

NCL

What about Tipping?

Gratuities

Guests should not feel obliged to offer a gratuity for good service. However, all of our staff are encouraged to go the extra mile, and so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities entirely at the discretion of our guests who wish to acknowledge particular staff members for exceptional or outstanding service. In other words, there is genuinely no need to tip but you should feel free to do so if you have a desire to acknowledge particular individuals.

Also, certain staff positions provide service on an individual basis to only some guests. We encourage those guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. For example, for guests purchasing bar drinks the recommended gratuity is 15 percent. For guests purchasing spa treatments the recommended gratuity is 18 percent. Similarly, for guests using concierge and butler services, we recommend they consider offering a gratuity commensurate with services rendered.

 

Interesting, all text about service charges has disappeared from NCL's web site? Maybe the fuel surcharge allowed NCL to drop the service charge??

 

Why worry about a non-existing auto service charge?

[zqvol]

 

Interesting, all text about service charges has disappeared from NCL's web site? Maybe the fuel surcharge allowed NCL to drop the service charge??

 

It looks like NCL has fixed the issue very easily.

 

"NORWEGIAN CRUISE LINE

Guest Ticket Contract

 

3. Terms of Fare: ...

Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest. The charge is intended to reward service provided in certain departments and job categories and is distributed to employees according to Carrier’s evaluation of job performance. A portion of the service charge collected by Carrier is also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs. For these purposes a fixed service charge of $10 per person per day will be added to your onboard account. For children ages 3-12, a $5 per person per day charge will be added to your onboard account; there is no charge for children under the age of three."

 

http://www.ncl.com/csimages/75/492/Combined_Final_Land%20_Sea_TCs.pdf

 

So for all the discussion, it is clear now. This is a service charge that may not be adjusted, just like you do not have the privileged of adjusting port fees if you don't like them. You are stuck with the $10 fee and it is not going away.

[salty dingo]

So for all the discussion, it is clear now. This is a service charge that may not be adjusted, just like you do not have the privileged of adjusting port fees if you don't like them. You are stuck with the $10 fee and it is not going away.

 

That's the way I read it too. It is in the contract. You agreed to the contract, you can't dispute it. In my opinion, if NCL allows people to "adjust" the service charge they are making a big mistake.

[electricron]

It looks like NCL has fixed the issue very easily.

 

"NORWEGIAN CRUISE LINE

Guest Ticket Contract

 

3. Terms of Fare: ...

Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest. The charge is intended to reward service provided in certain departments and job categories and is distributed to employees according to Carrier’s evaluation of job performance. A portion of the service charge collected by Carrier is also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs. For these purposes a fixed service charge of $10 per person per day will be added to your onboard account. For children ages 3-12, a $5 per person per day charge will be added to your onboard account; there is no charge for children under the age of three."

 

http://www.ncl.com/csimages/75/492/Combined_Final_Land%20_Sea_TCs.pdf

 

So for all the discussion, it is clear now. This is a service charge that may not be adjusted, just like you do not have the privileged of adjusting port fees if you don't like them. You are stuck with the $10 fee and it is not going away.

 

Dang! I missed that paragraph earlier. Sorry folks, the service charge definitely is non adjustable now.

[Thrifty]

Thank you both mbisson and electricron. It seems that passengers who are happy to reward those from whom they feel they have received good service, but do not want to reward someone they feel doesn't deserve it, have many cruise lines from which to choose. Despite the opposing viewpoints expressed by some of the other contributors to this discussion, I am personally optimistic that NCL will, before too long, again be one of them. Executives smart enough to offer the brilliant compromise of the bar setup to their more price sensitive passengers, are not likely to persist indefinitely in a practice that offends many of the customers they spend so much time and money to attract. (Just to remind anyone who may have forgotten, I don't object to a mandatory tip amount to eliminate "freeriders"; I just want to have some say in who gets it.)

[mbisson]

Dang! I missed that paragraph earlier. Sorry folks, the service charge definitely is non adjustable now.

 

I think with some certainty ;) that some will try to adjust them. It will be interesting to see how the onboard staff responds to their request.

 

BTW-I have my own preferences and thoughts (which I'm not shy about stating), about those who decide to save a few $ but honestly I have no intent to try to pursuade anyone to my way of thinking. It wouldn't work anyway.

[cruznut1111]

Any post mentioning the amount of a gratuity is nothing more than a feeble attempt at attempting to establish that the poster has a generous nature. .

 

 

HUH?? Where did that come from. I'm one of the anonymous folks who have posted the exact amounts of SOME of the tips I have given. I'm quite willing to say exactly why I did it - INFORMATION.

 

If anyone else has been as confused, uncertain, waivering as I have been pre-cruise and during the cruise, they need numbers. Not a vaguely worded "generous tip" or "modest tip", but plain, firm numbers. I wasn't nearly as comfortable with my tipping during my cruise as I was weeks later.

 

I could have seriously hurt the feelings of my wonderful butler if I had tipped the amount I had read on CruiseCritic instead of what I did. Do I think he would have treated me any differently or let me know in any way that he was disappointed? NO! I think I would be treated exactly the same. But, the information I learned about the butlers' hopes was important and needed to get out there for those who care about how they feel. I suppose because it isn't a big concentrated activity like a shore excursion, it's easy to let the significance of these wonderful servers fade into the background. But for me, an obligatory cruise I was dreading became one of the best ever.

 

Would I be as honest with my neighbors or friends as I am with the anonymity of being online? I don't know. If they sincerely asked, perhaps. Anyone who is my friend would probably think the amounts were modestly reasonable and not think any more of it. I'm the cheapskate in our group.:p

 

For most of us over-scheduled folks, there is only one reason to come on this board and post - to help others. I write what I do, not for the 10 folks who want to argue, but the 100 who are doing the same thing I usually do= lurk and learn.