A question of manners

[clivep]

We were on a Celebrity cruise last week and will be on a RC one next week. There were a lot of passengers from USA on board and I noticed that a large number of them did not say "please" or "thank you" when talking to the wait staff particularly with the servers in the WJ cafe equivalent.

 

We found all the passengers on board very friendly and courteous towards other passengers with very little pushing or queue jumping when getting on/off the ship/buses/tenders (unlike our experience with other Europeans on our MSC cruise in May). The overall friendliness of the passengers and crew contributed to this Celebrity cruise being our best cruise to date.

 

Was my perception incorrect or is there a cultural difference in the way crew are spoken to akin to the difference in tipping policies? In fact are these related i.e. in the USA do you show your appreciation using tips rather than verbally?

[long time lurker]

I am not sure if this is a cultural thing or not. I am one who always says please and thank you and I guess I just don't necessarily notice what the others around me are doing. I guess this is just another instance of the reputation we receive as "ugly Americans" when we travel. I think it may just be a matter of being on vacation and not remembering your manners because you are just in such a relaxed mode. Not an excuse, just a guess as to reasoning. Personally I try to express my appreciation both through tips and using good manners. I hope you enjoy your next cruise.

[bambam2972]

I am not sure if this is a cultural thing or not. I am one who always says please and thank you and I guess I just don't necessarily notice what the others around me are doing. I guess this is just another instance of the reputation we receive as "ugly Americans" when we travel. I think it may just be a matter of being on vacation and not remembering your manners because you are just in such a relaxed mode. Not an excuse, just a guess as to reasoning. Personally I try to express my appreciation both through tips and using good manners. I hope you enjoy your next cruise.

 

Okay, get out of my brain.. I was going to say the same thing. :eek: :p :p

[emilygrace]

Gosh, when I'm on a cruise I'm always so grateful that the crew and staff are taking care of me (instead of me taking care of everyone and everything around me) that I always say thank you! And "please" goes without saying.

[Travelgrrl]

I would guess that most Americans who are polite enough to say "please" and "thank you" are also the best tippers.

 

Those who are crabby, look for fault, are probably the ones missing in the dining room on the last night.

 

JMHO!

[wrp96]

Was my perception incorrect or is there a cultural difference in the way crew are spoken to akin to the difference in tipping policies? In fact are these related i.e. in the USA do you show your appreciation using tips rather than verbally?

 

A tip is not a substitute for good manners. The standard in the US is still to say please, thank you, yes maam, no sir, etc. At the very least it's still the standard in my family where according to my mother you are never too old to be punished for forgetting your manners.:p

[forensic]

It is my humble opinion that there are WAY TOO MANY Americans that have NO manners! You see them everyday, wearing hats in restaurants, NOT holding doors for the lady coming in behind them, slamming into you as they speed down the sidewalk or through the mall. The chair hogs on the ships. The ones that touch every piece of food in the buffet, with their bare hands, before they pick what they are going to eat. The ones that do not dress correctly for formal night. And the ones that walk right into our little children like they are not even there. And the ones that treat any and all wait staff, on ships, in restaurants, in the local McDonald's like they are dirt under our feet.

 

And it is OUR FAULT! Why?

 

BECAUSE --- WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU CALLED SOMEONE ON THEIR ACTIONS?

 

Did you suggest they take their hat off in a restaurant?

Did you ask the maitre'd to remove the person in jeans & tee shirt from formal night?

Did you say "anything" to ANY of these rude people?

 

They might not correct their rude behavior just because one of us say something BUT if enough people say something I am willing to bet they will start thinking about it. If enough parents are told that their children's behavior in a restaurant is terrible I would bet they will eventually get the message.

 

And YES - I do - politely as I can - say something to many of these people. I also tell parents with wonderful polite children what wonderful children they have. I have also had people removed from the dining room on formal night, like the guy dressed in worn out jean, worn out motorcycle boots, a t-shirt with a large emblem on it and a black leather jacket. He had the misfortune of being at the next table, but next to me on a Celebrity cruise. They did not want to ask him to leave - said it would cause a scene. I said I would cause the scene if they did NOT remove him. They asked him to leave and change his clothes.

 

Silence is acceptance. This country is what we make it.

[OHCruisin]

A tip is not a substitute for good manners. The standard in the US is still to say please, thank you, yes maam, no sir, etc. At the very least it's still the standard in my family where according to my mother you are never too old to be punished for forgetting your manners.:p

 

Well said. I'm also one that uses please & thank you. I've been in the service industry and I'm a Customer Service Manager by profession, so I know how much it means to have someone acknowledge a job well done. Plus, it's just good manners. Being on vacation is not a free pass to be rude.

[NCTribeFan]

I don't think it has anything to do with being on vacation.

 

I lived with an Englishman for several years, and he used to "correct" me when he felt I wasn't being polite enough. And I've always been one of the polite ones!

 

I'm appalled at the lack of manners from so many people these days. Go into a fast food restaurant and listen to the people order. They walk up to the counter and bellow at the poor minimum-wage worker, "YEAH, GIMME A JUMBO BURGER, BIGGIE FRIES & A COKE!!!" No hello, please or thank you.

 

Yeah, gimme... has beome the standard for many.

 

I also love how people will walk out of a door, knowing someone is behind them, and just allow it to swing shut in their face. I stop and hold the door open, and people seem truly shocked! It's sad, really.

[reallyitsmema]

It is my humble opinion that there are WAY TOO MANY Americans that have NO manners! You see them everyday, wearing hats in restaurants, NOT holding doors for the lady coming in behind them, slamming into you as they speed down the sidewalk or through the mall. The chair hogs on the ships. The ones that touch every piece of food in the buffet, with their bare hands, before they pick what they are going to eat. The ones that do not dress correctly for formal night. And the ones that walk right into our little children like they are not even there. And the ones that treat any and all wait staff, on ships, in restaurants, in the local McDonald's like they are dirt under our feet.

 

And it is OUR FAULT! Why?

 

BECAUSE --- WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU CALLED SOMEONE ON THEIR ACTIONS?

 

Did you suggest they take their hat off in a restaurant?

Did you ask the maitre'd to remove the person in jeans & tee shirt from formal night?

Did you say "anything" to ANY of these rude people?

 

They might not correct their rude behavior just because one of us say something BUT if enough people say something I am willing to bet they will start thinking about it. If enough parents are told that their children's behavior in a restaurant is terrible I would bet they will eventually get the message.

 

And YES - I do - politely as I can - say something to many of these people. I also tell parents with wonderful polite children what wonderful children they have. I have also had people removed from the dining room on formal night, like the guy dressed in worn out jean, worn out motorcycle boots, a t-shirt with a large emblem on it and a black leather jacket. He had the misfortune of being at the next table, but next to me on a Celebrity cruise. They did not want to ask him to leave - said it would cause a scene. I said I would cause the scene if they did NOT remove him. They asked him to leave and change his clothes.

 

Silence is acceptance. This country is what we make it.

Oh yes, going around being judgemental of everyone around you is a much better choice......:rolleyes:

[Bakincakes]

It is my humble opinion that there are WAY TOO MANY Americans that have NO manners! You see them everyday, wearing hats in restaurants, NOT holding doors for the lady coming in behind them, slamming into you as they speed down the sidewalk or through the mall. The chair hogs on the ships. The ones that touch every piece of food in the buffet, with their bare hands, before they pick what they are going to eat. The ones that do not dress correctly for formal night. And the ones that walk right into our little children like they are not even there. And the ones that treat any and all wait staff, on ships, in restaurants, in the local McDonald's like they are dirt under our feet.

 

And it is OUR FAULT! Why?

 

BECAUSE --- WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU CALLED SOMEONE ON THEIR ACTIONS?

 

Did you suggest they take their hat off in a restaurant?

Did you ask the maitre'd to remove the person in jeans & tee shirt from formal night?

Did you say "anything" to ANY of these rude people?

 

They might not correct their rude behavior just because one of us say something BUT if enough people say something I am willing to bet they will start thinking about it. If enough parents are told that their children's behavior in a restaurant is terrible I would bet they will eventually get the message.

 

And YES - I do - politely as I can - say something to many of these people. I also tell parents with wonderful polite children what wonderful children they have. I have also had people removed from the dining room on formal night, like the guy dressed in worn out jean, worn out motorcycle boots, a t-shirt with a large emblem on it and a black leather jacket. He had the misfortune of being at the next table, but next to me on a Celebrity cruise. They did not want to ask him to leave - said it would cause a scene. I said I would cause the scene if they did NOT remove him. They asked him to leave and change his clothes.

 

Silence is acceptance. This country is what we make it.

 

Wonderful post. We are being taught, in this country, that tolerance sometimes means accepting rude and crude behavior. I'm not sure why manners when out of style but it seems to coincide with the "me" generation.

[Bakincakes]

Oh yes, going around being judgemental of everyone around you is a much better choice......:rolleyes:

 

 

I agree. Only high expectations will yield higher standards. :)

[klfhngr]

I don't think it's a cultural thing, I think it's how one is raised and by the example of their parents. I've been getting complimented on my boys behavior/manners since they were toddlers, they are now 9 and 15 and I am STILL getting complimented for their 'thank you's' and 'your welcomes', etc.! Proud father? Heck yea! :)

[reallyitsmema]

I agree. Only high expectations will yield higher standards. :)

Nice try:rolleyes: but threatening a waiter in the dining room while in formal wear does not make it right.

[Tranquil Waters]

Wow, I don't know where some of you people live ;) , but I rarely see the kind of behavior I am reading here. Where I live, people smile and say hello when they pass you - whether they know you or not. I am a female - and I can't remember the last time a male over the age of 10 has not held a door open for me as I entered a restaurant or store or post office or whatever. And, yes, I always say thank you when they do. I hear please and thank you all the time when I am out and about.

 

Don't misunderstand me. I certainly think there is too much "me" in the world today. But I really haven't seen that translated into bad manners as far as please and thank you and excuse me, etc...... :)

[DonnaK]

I agree with those who said that it's not necessarily a cultural thing, but a matter of how each individual was raised.

 

I am American, and a New Yorker too, yet I would never dream of neglecting to say please or thank you, or to be courteous, to anyone. I have bought up my children to be very well-mannered too. However, I can only speak for my household, not for my countrymen.

[jzerocsk]

If you are looking for Americans being rude, you will see rude Americans.

 

If you are on a cruise ship that departed from a port in the US, of course most of the rude people will also be Americans - most of the people on the ship will be Americans so there will be a higher proportion of rude Americans than rude people from other nations.

[EchoSix]

Wow. I'm sorry you had that kind of an experience.

 

It just so happens, that I JUST got off the phone with a friend of mine, and we were talking about the rudeness of others that we meet when on vacation.

 

My friend and I never took a trip together before, but we both have had SUCH a hard time dealing with the complete and total lack of courtesy that SO many people show, when we're in public and in a "vacation" setting. You'd think people would be on their best behavior and would actually follow through with the training their parents should have influenced them with. But NOOOOOO...

 

I'm American and get TONS of praise for my kids (10, 4 and even my two year old), when they actually say their please's and thank you's. Of course with the baby, she says "Peeez" & "Tankyooo" and even a "Skoozz Meee". And of course I practice what I preach to my kids (except when it comes to eating healthy :o) and do my DAMNDEST to make sure I'm not accused of being rude to others. Though there's not a lot of people who seem to give me reason to keep giving them respect, as I do.

 

It's easy to get angry at the kids who act like little animals, when they don't say "Excuse me", when they're trying to get from Point A to Point B. But it's reallyt their parents, who haven't told them the right way to act around people. Rude kids who never grow up realizing that they aren't the center of gravity in the solar system, most often grow up to be the rudest adults possible.

 

Waiters, phone operators, people in line with you, people around you in the theatre and the immediately surrounding people, who DIRECTLY influence what kind of experience you receive from the "event" you're at, are some of the more important people to satisfy. Or else you ALL may have a miserable experience.

 

I hate Christmas time at the malls. Hate it! Simply because of the hostility that surrounds you, no matter what. Pushy, rude, obnoxious, inhospitable, arrogant and quite often SMELLY people.

 

And when they get what they wanted... Do they give a simply "Thank you"? :mad:

 

 

I don't place the blame solely on Americans. I've witnessed it from every culture. But to be honest, not to directly offend anyone here... I've seen it come more from Asians (Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc). I'm not a bigot towards them, so please don't get me wrong. I've even asked a few of our close friends whose backgrounds are from the Orient and who's kids go to school with ours... "What's the deal", I ask them. They see it too, but they see it from the French! :D

 

Not a lot of people can argue with that, either. :D Though I think it's more the Parisians, who are so rude. Especially TO Americans.

 

 

I'm not gonna' make excuses for anyone. We all put our pants on, one leg at a time... SO there should never be an excuse for mistreating someone, just because you'll never see that person again. I think that when so many people go away somewhere, they're spending a LOT of money and therefore feel they're deserving of something, in order to get their money's worth. And if that somehow "requires" them to push and shove to get what they want BEFORE the other person, then that should also "require" ME, to beat the crap out of them when they shove my kids aside, because they're needs apparently are more important. :mad:

 

 

I'm NOT a religious person, but there's one thing I place before almost everything else in life and that's a quote most of us learned, and I of course remember as a "Recovering Roman Catholic":D ... 'Do unto others, as you'd have them do unto you.'

 

It says a lot, while saying very little.

[rclcruzer]

I don't think it has anything to do with being on vacation.

 

I lived with an Englishman for several years, and he used to "correct" me when he felt I wasn't being polite enough. And I've always been one of the polite ones!

 

I'm appalled at the lack of manners from so many people these days. Go into a fast food restaurant and listen to the people order. They walk up to the counter and bellow at the poor minimum-wage worker, "YEAH, GIMME A JUMBO BURGER, BIGGIE FRIES & A COKE!!!" No hello, please or thank you.

 

Yeah, gimme... has beome the standard for many.

 

I also love how people will walk out of a door, knowing someone is behind them, and just allow it to swing shut in their face. I stop and hold the door open, and people seem truly shocked! It's sad, really.

I agree!! The GIMME and door holding open going unnoticed, are two of my biggest pet peeves.

I say more "thanks yous" and "your welcomes" on our vacations, land or sea, because, staff wise, they are performing a service from one human being to another. I am not above them, I too am human.

I know we sometimes get a bad wrap from people over seas, too bad there aren't more Americans with manners!

[MakinGold]

I also love how people will walk out of a door, knowing someone is behind them, and just allow it to swing shut in their face. I stop and hold the door open, and people seem truly shocked! It's sad, really.

 

 

:) Do you ever feel like you've just been trapped, because you held a door open for someone, and a stream of person after person after person walks through, some of them saying thank you, but none of them putting a hand to the door to relieve you of holding it? I would feel bad letting go and having it hit someone in the face. :o

 

I also get a bit amused sometimes, when I approach some double doors and open the "IN" door for my wife, and a stream of people start coming out, making us wait to be able to enter. I usually just smile and laugh about it, but I can't help thinking to myseld, "HELLO!! Use the EXIT door, please!"

[clivep]

If you are looking for Americans being rude, you will see rude Americans.

 

If you are on a cruise ship that departed from a port in the US, of course most of the rude people will also be Americans - most of the people on the ship will be Americans so there will be a higher proportion of rude Americans than rude people from other nations.

 

It was a Western Mediterranean cruise from Barcelona. In the captain's Q&A we found there were approximately 45% American's on board.

 

As I said in my original post, I found the Americans to be very friendly and not at all rude to myself or other passengers. I don't believe they meant to be rude to the wait staff but just wondered why they seemed to treat them differently to passengers. On European Cruise lines I have come across a good deal of rudeness from our Continental neighbours but they seem to be more consistent in being rude to both crew and fellow passengers alike!

[Tranquil Waters]

It was a Western Mediterranean cruise from Barcelona. In the captain's Q&A we found there were approximately 45% American's on board.

 

As I said in my original post, I found the Americans to be very friendly and not at all rude to myself or other passengers. I don't believe they meant to be rude to the wait staff but just wondered why they seemed to treat them differently to passengers. On European Cruise lines I have come across a good deal of rudeness from our Continental neighbours but they seem to be more consistent in being rude to both crew and fellow passengers alike!

 

So it is just the British who are polite to the crew and wait staff? :D

[glgolfer]

Makin Gold - Just hold your hand out and say "all tips appreciated". Gets their attention and then let the door go.

As far as the coming out the in, I'm fairly large and if they start doing that, I just plant myself in the doorway and wait for them to figure out they need to use the other door if they want to get out.

Don't have to say a thing.

That also works for the ones that try to get on the elevator as soon as the door opens. I've had them bounce off me far enough away when I walk into them getting off there's no room for them to get on after they recover.

Read Heinlein to see what he thinks about people that lack common courtesy.

[Cloud9 Bob]

I'm a born and bred New Yorker also, and I was honestly embarrassed by the behavior of some of my fellow Americans on my last RCI cruise. On the other hand, I met some of the most polite and personable people imaginable also. The bottom line for me is it's about how you are raised. I've always been taught to say please and thank you, and by now, it's just a natural thing. I think a lot of times, the offending party just doesn't know any better.

 

On a slightly different topic, I'm really upset when I hear people be needlessly condescending to staff. These rude people are certainly in the minority, but one runs across them now and then. My parents came to the USA in the late 1930's and were hard working immigrants. I think that was an advantage for me, as I try to treat all staff equally (as I would like to be treated) whether they are cabin stewards, busboys or whatever. I see, in them, my young parents, sixty years ago. Well maybe I'm rambling a bit now, just my .02 :cool:

[RachieLnnn]

After thinking about this, I believe I always say thank you after receiving a service, along with a "Have a good day/weekend!" or "Take care." :)

 

However, I'm not sure if I DO say please everytime. Most often I say something like, "Hi, can I have a ..." or "Hi, how are you doing. I'd like a ..." along with a smile.

 

Something I'll think about. But I certainly wouldn't consider myself rude in the slightest just because I don't say the word please... if you are friendly and nice to a crew member, I think that is the difference. It's all in your attitude.

 

As far as politeness in America goes...I witness politeness everyday when I take the train into work. Since most everyone gets off at the end of the line (in the Chicago Loop), some people get up and start standing by the doors or in the aisle in order to get out first. However, even though these people are obviously in a hurry to get off the train, they do let the people sitting down get up and go in front of them. This happens daily. I think since everyone knows that "this" is what is done, everyone does it. If you were to be rude and push, the other people on the train would "shun" you. So, politeness IS alive and well in America. :)

 

It's not all politeness all the time (there are plenty of rude people as well) but it is still there. People may not always open doors for me, but they will hold it after they've gone through. It's something.

 

BTW, what exactly is the "Me" generation? Ages please? Please don't say it is 20-something year olds, as that is what I am and I would be offended. Way to stereotype based on age... not to mention that the fact that there are PLENTY of rude middle-aged people and older out there, in fact you can find rude people of any age!