Equal benefits for non-americans!!!!

[Aussie Gal]

The only problem is that the fare is nearly double what U.S. citizens pay so what is fair about that! We are being penalized for living in a country that isn't the U.S. I would just like to purchase my cruise from whom I want and not have to go through an Aussie agent.

 

Jennie

[LHT28]

The only problem is that the fare is nearly double what U.S. citizens pay so what is fair about that!

Jennie

 

Jennie

Is the Australian brochure different to the one online in their pricing?

Or is it when the exchange rate is applied it is more $$?

[Aussie Gal]

LHT28,

 

I don't have the Australian brochure to hand but do have the prices from one of our most competitive email agents here in Australia. Here is link to the cruises and from this you can compare the difference in price.

 

http://www.ecruising.travel/list.aspx?d=771&cl=152&dm=0

 

Remember, our dollar is around .87 against yours at the moment.

 

Jennie

[sachiboo]

Ditto to the above - non US residents. I have the same problem. My Aussie TA gave me good information about Oceania cruises. While I was perusing the this information, an US online travel agency advertised Oceania 2 for 1 fares. When I did my sums, the US travel agency came up significantly cheaper even with the currency conversion.

 

Margaret

[LHT28]

LHT28,

 

I don't have the Australian brochure to hand but do have the prices from one of our most competitive email agents here in Australia. Here is link to the cruises and from this you can compare the difference in price.

 

http://www.ecruising.travel/list.aspx?d=771&cl=152&dm=0

 

Remember, our dollar is around .87 against yours at the moment.

 

Jennie

Thanks Jennie will peruse the site !!

[Sunny Sailing]

LHT28,

 

I don't have the Australian brochure to hand but do have the prices from one of our most competitive email agents here in Australia. Here is link to the cruises and from this you can compare the difference in price.

 

http://www.ecruising.travel/list.aspx?d=771&cl=152&dm=0

 

Remember, our dollar is around .87 against yours at the moment.

 

Jennie

 

 

Hi

Everyone should get the 2 for 1 fares (or world fares) as advertised in the brochure - we always have from NZ.

 

I have just looked at the costs on the site you sent and they are so much higher than the brochure.

 

I have listed the costings from the site, which are shown in $NZ, and in brackets beside have put the "world" costs from the brochure (in $NZ at today's exchange rate)

 

Inside (from) $15,049.00 ($10,720);

Outside (from) $15,899.00 ($11,395);

Balcony (from) $17,599.00 ($13,260);

Suite (from) $20,599.00 ($16,850).

 

The only extra's included in the website costings are 2 nights accomodation in hotels and airport transfers.

 

Hope this helps

[RickeyCruz5]

LHT28,

 

I don't have the Australian brochure to hand but do have the prices from one of our most competitive email agents here in Australia. Here is link to the cruises and from this you can compare the difference in price.

 

http://www.ecruising.travel/list.aspx?d=771&cl=152&dm=0

 

Remember, our dollar is around .87 against yours at the moment.

 

Jennie

I notice that these are packages and not just cruise only. They all include some type of tour or hotel stay so it is really like trying to compare apples to oranges. Do you have anything that advertises cruise only fares that you can send us?

 

Rickey

*****

[LHT28]

LHT28,

 

I don't have the Australian brochure to hand but do have the prices from one of our most competitive email agents here in Australia. Here is link to the cruises and from this you can compare the difference in price.

Jennie

 

I was going to compare my cruise with your site but they do not have it listed so that idea went out the window!! ;)

 

I did notice that on the site airfare, gratuities and taxes are included in the pricing. In some cases they even include a hotel the night before

 

I checked one cruise in Oct

G cabin cat

 

O USD $2999.

Grats $125.

taxes(?) $500. (just guessing compared to my upcoming cruise )

total 3624 USD converted to AUD $4163 at the interbank rate of 1%

 

AUD price is $4899. converted to USD $4306.

 

Not too much more in price difference it could be in the Australian taxes or other surcharges they apply.... $650-750 difference

 

You cannot just look at he prices you have to check what is included in the pricing

[dwelsh]

Does everyone aboard in each category pay the same fare?

 

I doubt it very much, whether in the UK, ANZ or US/Canada.

 

Having used a website requesting quotes for Oceania or other lines there is a vast difference in prices quoted. When market forces are put into play prices are never the same.

[P&C]

I am paying a visit to my TA late Jan to get our plans for the Baltic underway for 09. The 09 sailings apparently come out in Feb, here. I will be most interested to see the price diffrence between NZ and the rest of the world. I am sure when we were booking our Med cruise in 06 for 07, Oceania was offereing a deal, 2 for 1 but it is from memory. I cannot understand why we would be disavantaged. Surely if you had connection( I haven't!)you could go and book off shore if that was the case?

It will be a few weeks before I can let you know what our answer is.

[2kiwis]

I will be most interested to see the price diffrence between NZ and the rest of the world. I am sure when we were booking our Med cruise in 06 for 07, Oceania was offereing a deal, 2 for 1 but it is from memory. I cannot understand why we would be disadvantaged. Surely if you had connection( I haven't!)you could go and book off shore if that was the case?.

 

Hi

We have booked twice in NZ and the last time onboard and each time we have received the "World fares" listed in the brochure - which we think are the 2 for 1 fares. We have tried but have never been able to book off shore and will be interested to see if you can.

 

Watch the exchange rates offered = especially if you are told that the balance will be charged at the deposit exchange rate!. This leaves you paying a lot extra if the $NZ strengthens. I guess if the $NZ weakens by the time you have to pay the balance you will be better off, but that is only if there is not any small print that allows the cost to be raised if this occurs.

 

As we have mentioned previously, we don't object to the gratuities themeselves, but have a problem with having to prepay the gratuities (North Americans don't have to), and not being entitles to at least the "Free Air rebate".

 

It is frustrating to see the vast range of deals offered by various wholesalers overseas and not being able to access some of them.

[LHT28]

 

Watch the exchange rates offered = especially if you are told that the balance will be charged at the deposit exchange rate!. This leaves you paying a lot extra if the $NZ strengthens. I guess if the $NZ weakens by the time you have to pay the balance you will be better off, but that is only if there is not any small print that allows the cost to be raised if this occurs.

 

Ok once again you have confused me ..not hard to do some days:D

 

When you pay do you pay in $NZ or do you have the option of USD?

 

I think you are saying that they convert the deposit to $NZ from USD ...is that correct?

Or do you get billed in $NZ ?

 

I would think that you credit card company would convert at the rate of exchange that day but maybe it is different in NZ

 

when we pay our deposit we pay USD my CC does the conversion to CAD

[Aussie Gal]

Okay, I know that the website I gave you included airfare and two nights accommodation and onboard gratutities.

 

Here is the run down on the HK to Athens cruise of 35 days. A C2 cabin, being the lowest verandah is costing $15199AUD. Taking off the airfares which would be no more than $2000AUD and the 2 nights hotel accommodation of say $700AUD and that is being generous, + Gratutites of $385AUD, the total for a C2 cabin comes to $12114AUD p.p.

 

On Oceania's website which as you know is more expensive than what T.A.'s in the U.S. are offering a C2 is $7499US and airfare is included.

 

At the exchange rate of .87 which is what our dollar is at the moment it converts to $8530.00. That is a difference of $3500AUD p.p. Why would anyone in Australia and N.Z. book with a T.A here!

 

The fare that I have quoted from Oceania is the original prices that was true right up until a month ago when all the fares went up as everyone had paid their final amounts.

 

By the way, everything has to be paid in Aussie dollars.

 

Jennie

[2kiwis]

Ok once again you have confused me ..not hard to do some days:D

 

When you pay do you pay in $NZ or do you have the option of USD?

 

I think you are saying that they convert the deposit to $NZ from USD ...is that correct?

Or do you get billed in $NZ ?

 

I would think that you credit card company would convert at the rate of exchange that day but maybe it is different in NZ

 

when we pay our deposit we pay USD my CC does the conversion to CAD

 

 

When we pay for our cruises it has been in $NZ. When the last cruise deposit was paid it was charged in $NZ converted at the current exchange rate, and we were told that when the balance was due it would be converted into $NZ at the current exchange, which is fine. However, when the balance became due the $US had weakened and our $NZ was stronger - but we were then charged in $NZ at an earlier (weaker) exchange rate by the wholesaler, which meant we were paying extra ( over $2,000).

Given that the deposit is forwarded to Oceania there should be no reason for it not to be paid at the exchange rate of the day. We argued this and were reluctantly reimbursed, but it has been suggested that in future the exchange rate paid at time of deposit will be the final rate. This is well and good if the exchange rate stays the same or goes down (in which case one wonders if that will still hold), but when the exchange rate strengthens we are paying a lot extra. As far as we are concerned the exchange rate should be the current rate.

Friends (from Australia) we met on board our last cruise were charged in a similar manner, and were furious to find that they had paid a lot extra. It is very difficult for us "down under" when we cannot "shop around" and choose to go elsewhere to book our cruises.

PS: (NB: Normal credit card transactions here are converted at the daily exchange rate. However, if an account is sent to you in $NZ it is converted by the person sending it, not the bank. Naturally it is then up to you whether you pay it or not, but when you want to go on your cruise it becomes a "battle". While this is not an Oceania problem, it does end up causing resentment, as we cannot book on them direct or through anyone else. Last cruise we booked and paid our deposit on board but the balance will still have to be paid via NZ so we will have to see what is going to happen at that time with the exchange rate!!)

[meow!]

We have not gone through what you folks have, so I am just talking out of imagination here. To start with a C2 is not a verandah, a B2 is. (A C2 only has a "picture window"). Then suppose you forego the discount your agent can give you (the worst case scenario), can you purchase the cruise ticket directly from Oceania? If you can, take the air rebate of your cruise, book with your credit card (the deposit will be charged at the going exchange rate at the time of booking), and when final payment becomes due, again pay with your credit card (which will be charged at the exchange rate at the final payment time). In this case, at least you do not risk exchange rate appreciation of your dollar. (It is very hard to bet on exchange rate trends though it looks likely that in the next couple of years, the US$ may continue to go down). I don't know whether you can use an American TA for your ticket, or whether there are ways of getting around this (use a relative or friend's address), assuming that there is no law (and not just the cruise line's internal rules) against this.

[LHT28]

When we pay for our cruises it has been in $NZ. When the last cruise deposit was paid it was charged in $NZ converted at the current exchange rate, and we were told that when the balance was due it would be converted into $NZ at the current exchange, which is fine. However, when the balance became due the $US had weakened and our $NZ was stronger - but we were then charged in $NZ at an earlier (weaker) exchange rate by the wholesaler, which meant we were paying extra ( over $2,000).

 

Ok I got it now...

[Aussie Gal]

Meow,

 

That is what we would all like to do. Use either a T.A. in the U.S. or use Oceania direct. Some of us can get around that whereas others have difficulty doing it.

 

My apologies for not using the correct cabin. I will do it properly this time.

 

A B2 costs $15199AUD minus airfare of $2000AUD, minus hotel accommodation of $700AUD and gratuties of $400AUD. I didn't convert it to the U.S. rate last time. That leaves a total of $12099AUD p.p.

 

On my original costing of the H.K. cruise by Oceania with airfare provided it was $7999US for a B2 cabin.

 

Converting the $7999US into Aussie dollars at todays rate = $9099AUD a difference of $4100AUD p.p.

 

This doesn't just happen to Oceania bookings but also happens with HAL, though there are no rules about not using a U.S.agent and Princess bookings are particularly difficult as again they insist on everything being booked in Australia. You talk about Agents discounts, very few offer them down here. It is a rarity. Nothing like what is offered in the U.S.

 

Jennie

[meow!]

Can you use a relative or friend's U.S. address? The fact that you hold an Australian passport does not exclude you from buying things in the U.S. (lots of people with U.S. residency "green card" still use their original passports from foreign countries). You cannot break laws, but you can go around individual cruise lines' internal "rules" (their preferences for you to pay more)! Am I right? Perhaps Jancruz can comment on that!

[LHT28]

It appears to be a Country rule rather than a cruise line rule...correct? In correct? :confused:

 

Is there a "Travel Industry Council" for AZ & NZ?

A board that makes the rules for the travel industry & protects consumers?

 

Just a thought

Maybe if consumers in AZ& NZ write letters to the board of directors complaining of the pricing and the wholesalers booking practices.

[Aussie Gal]

Meow and LHT28

 

I have always thought it was a rule put out by the Cruise companies to probably protect the Australian Wholesalers.

 

Jan may be able to tell us why Oceania will not let T.A.'s in the U.S. sell to Australians and New Zealanders. I would love to know the reason.

 

Jennie

[Aussie Gal]

Of course very few Australian cruisers who travel overseas to cruise do not realize they are paying so much more for their cruises.

 

Until one finds a Board like C.C. and starts reading the various posts, meeting people on board ship and being told what they are paying, does one realize that we are paying nearly twice as much than anyone else for the same cruise. This happened to us a couple of times and from then on, we decided we would not go down that road again.

 

Jennie

[sachiboo]

When I booked my '09 Oceania cruise from a US travel agency, I told them that I live outside the US and was advised that it was okay provided I give them a US address. I was able to do so. From now on I will be booking my future cruises from the US. I can use the cruise fare savings toward airfares.

I was able to get a much better fare deal from this agency than here in Australia.

 

Margaret

[owl61]

Some of us ( lahore, LHT28, thewatcher, Justgottago, JanCruz1) have had this conversation before (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=597246).

 

From a large internet travel agency web site:

• Note: Holland America, MSC, NCL, Oceania, Princess, Royal Caribbean and Star Clippers now prohibit U.S. travel agencies (including XYZ) from selling cruises to customers who do not have a residence in the U.S. or Canada.
  

As a US citizen I have never had a problem buying any cruise alone from this or any other online TA even though I do not reside in the US or Canada. They can not sell me air originating outside those countries. Cruise docs can be emailed so as a practical matter anyone who can come up with a US/Can address should be able to buy cruises on line at the same prices available to US and Canada residents.

I believe the prohibition on cross border sales is an industry tactic. Sometimes I have pondered whether this kind of pricing is violative of US antitrust or unfair trade statutes that govern the limits on geographical pricing monopolies. For example:

 

§ 2 Clayton Act, 15 U.S.C. §§ 13(2)

 

Discrimination in price, services, or facilities

 

(a) Price; selection of customers

It shall be unlawful for any person engaged in commerce, in the course of such commerce, either directly or indirectly, to discriminate in price between different purchasers of commodities of like grade and quality, where either or any of the purchases involved in such discrimination are in commerce, where such commodities are sold for use, consumption, or resale within the United States or any Territory thereof or the District of Columbia or any insular possession or other place under the jurisdiction of the United States, and where the effect of such discrimination may be substantially to lessen competition or tend to create a monopoly in any line of commerce, or to injure, destroy, or prevent competition with any person who either grants or knowingly receives the benefit of such discrimination, or with customers of either of them:

and:

f) Knowingly inducing or receiving discriminatory price

It shall be unlawful for any person engaged in commerce, in the course of such commerce, knowingly to induce or receive a discrimination in price which is prohibited by this section.

 

I have discussed this subject in passing with some Maritime lawyers who specialize in cruise passenger cases, but antitrust doesn't seem to be their radar. One of these days someone will attack the practice of differential pricing on the grounds it lessens competition. To the extent the cruise lines offer wholesalers in different markets different pricing for the same product it tends to lessen competition. Who would buy from an Au or NZ agent if they could get a better price from a US agent?

[Sunny Sailing]

RE: Discriminatory pricing based on residence

From a large internet travel agency web site:

• Note: Holland America, MSC, NCL, Oceania, Princess, Royal Caribbean and Star Clippers now prohibit U.S. travel agencies (including XYZ) from selling cruises to customers who do not have a residence in the U.S. or Canada.

  One has to wonder why this is the case - especially when 10% of the passengers were from NZ/Australia on one of our Oceania cruises. If these cruiselines wish to promote themselves in these countries, why discriminate against the residents? I wouldn't have a problem about having to book in my own country if we could get the same prices and therefore not subsidise others!

   

  Surely, the value of a cabin/stateroom is the same regardless of where the occupant comes from!!!!:(

[lahore]

This thread is again very interesting and shows a wealth of experience. I thank Aussie Gal for her thorough research and responses, which support and explicate our case so well. I haven't had much time in the past two days so thanks Jennie.

 

LHT28: with respect, this time it was your comment that made me cross (e.g.,):

 

"Not too much more in price difference it could be in the Australian taxes or other surcharges they apply.... $650-750 difference

 

You cannot just look at he prices you have to check what is included in the pricing"

 

Please - I (and I know that Aussie Gal is too) am a well travelled person with a PhD and excellent web-based research skills. I found your response patronising. I am more than aware that you need to check what is included in the pricing. That's part of the point. I DON'T WANT to pay through the nose for some hotel that an agent is using to garner more $$, and why on earth would I want to pay any taxes that I don't have to pay? MOREOVER, $650 - $750 is a $hitload of money to my partner and I, particularly when you are talking per person. Furthermore, as Jennie rightly pointed out - the difference is actually much more than that anyway.

 

It is not a country rule, it is absolutely a cruise line rule, as owl61 as said. Here is a cut and paste of a communication between a USA based wholesaler and myself:

 

"

Back in April {Agency X - my USA based wholesaler } received several phone calls and an email from Oceania management that basically stated they had a contract with a “GSA” (General Sales Agent) and Oceania did not have the right to sell to residents of Australia

 

Agency X pointed out the we also had a contract with Oceania and it did not restrict us from selling to anyone or anyplace. Oceania and the “GSA” agreed to allow us to keep your booking since we did nothing incorrect according to our agreement with Oceania. However, Oceania did inform us and change our contract for future business.

 

Both the GSA and Oceania are fully aware you booked outside “the network” and are going to allow you to cruise as booked. However, we can no longer sell you Oceania cruises.

 

GSA = General Sales Agent. It’s like purchasing a franchise to sell a product in a certain region (Ford, McDonald’s, Burger King, etc.) The GSA then sells to local agents and passengers. Because Oceania has added another level between the consumer and Oceania it has to increase prices. Most GSA agents get 10-12% on top of what they pay local agents to book. This additional cost is passed along to you, the passenger."

 

I think that's pretty clear, don't you :cool:

 

I am interested to read about the people proposing to book through USA-based agents using a (false) USA-based address. I will abosolutely get around any rule in any way possible if it benefits me - I have no qualms about that at all. However, if my booking address doesn't match the address in my passport, I wonder what COULD happen? E.g., with international security the way it is now - people's identities are checked pretty closely. Would be keen to hear more on this from people who have actual experience.

 

BTW - still no response from Oceania to my letter.

 

To those who are asking Jan for an opinion: I am pretty sure Jan's response would be similar to mine above in relation to the GSA - as Owl61 says, this has been discussed before - although I am keen to see this spirited discussion and hope that someone at Oceania is reading it also.