Equal benefits for non-americans!!!!

[2kiwis]

Hi meow

 

Thanks for the link to Silversea, we will have a look at it, especially if it means that they are going to give us here "down-under' the same advantages as everyone else.

 

I agree about the market forces, and it will be very interesting to see what happens when Oceania's bigger ships come online.

[lahore]

IF Oceania has enough customers as is and therefore does not appear to value the Australasian market, that is their choice. Once Oceania has their new large ships in service, they will be hunting for new passengers and will perhaps dump the wholesaler and put in their own office in Sydney or Melbourne and bend over backwards to say how they value your business!

 

That's what I thought too.... but should we sit around waiting like Pavlov's dog? The line shows us no courtesy or allegience, but we do when they see the light. I would rather that they saw it as less of a one way street - but maybe that's being too idealistic.

 

Does anyone know if Azamara has this unfair policy? Guess I can easily find out, but just wonder if anyone knows for sure.

[sandydownunder]

lahore & Sunny Sailing. Do you mean ACCC (Australian Competition & Consumer Commission)? Not Fair Trading !

 

A couple of years ago I was so angry with Princess I contacted the ACCC. I got a good hearing. The person on the phone didn't know how to answer my querie, checked with her supervisor and got back to me.`

 

This is what happened. I was on a Princess cruise. I went to the Future Cruise Consultant to pay a deposit for a future cruise. She told me it was $100 for US & Canadian citizens and $200 for Australians. No problem for me because after all our dollar was lower. As I was about to sign up I had a flash and asked her if it meant I would have to book my cruise with an Australian TA. No one in their right mind would do that. Her reply was "Of course, Brits have to book in Britain, Australians in Australia, and Chinese in Hong Kong." So I told her I hadn't booked the one I was on in Australia. She nearly had apoplexy and told me I could have been denied boarding. After I paid for the cruise in full? Then she said the US Travel Agent must have lied about my residential address and she proceeded to look it up on the data base. Surprise! It is Kangaroo Point. You couldn't get much more Australian than that.

 

When I got home I rang ACCC. This is basically what they said.

When you purchase a cruise you enter into a contract. The seller sets the conditions and if you don't like them then you can choose to walk away. Somewhere in the fine print will be that you must purchase in your country of residence.

 

Is it fair? No

Most people booking a cruise in Australia would be unaware they were being gouged.

Is it any thing to do with the Australian government? No

It is the cruise wholesalers putting pressure on the parent company. If I was an Australian Wholesaler selling cruises (at INFLATED prices) I would not be happy if people were buying their cruises through American Travel Agents.

I refuse to buy a Princess cruise in Australia. Will that make a difference? No

Maybe airing the topic on boards like these might have some small impact. More people will become aware and the cruise lines unfair practices are being discussed.

[lahore]

hi Sandy

 

Thanks for another edifying post. Yes you are probably correct, I really didn't give it much thought at the time, but no doubt the ACCC is the appropriate portfolio.

 

I agree that, unfortunately, with the USA-based predilication for cruising, our Aussie and NZ dollars probably aren't 'worth a bag of beans ' ... the lines are making more than enough from the USA.

 

Maybe one day - if the financial tragedy facing the USA that is being forecast in the press comes to fruition - our money might be sought more enthusiastically. I am not wishing that on our friends on this board, but it seems that we are - until such times - the poor and undervalued cousins, unwanted unless we pay through the nose.

[LHT28]

I came across this tidbit on the Oceania UK site

http://www.oceaniacruises.com/GSA/UK/T_MainContentPage.aspx?pageuid=4fcb9b6e-d486-49eb-ac88-48cbba9c9403

PAYMENTS

Any and all payments made by You to Us shall be made in currency of the United States of America or other currency acceptable to Us. All charges for services and products provided on board the Ship must be settled in cash or charged (via credit card acceptable to Us) before Your final disembarkation from the Ship. Any other expenses incurred by You or by Us on Your behalf shall be payable by You on demand. Oceania Cruises accepts no responsibility for credit card processing fees independently assessed by issuing banks. None of these fees separately charged by the issuing banks accrues to the benefit of Oceania Cruises nor do they accrue to the benefit of Oceania Cruises’ credit card processing bank.

Maybe the same wording inthe Australian contract & you could argue the point to pay in USD

[dbh62ark]

Maybe one day - if the financial tragedy facing the USA that is being forecast in the press comes to fruition - our money might be sought more enthusiastically. I am not wishing that on our friends on this board, but it seems that we are - until such times - the poor and undervalued cousins, unwanted unless we pay through the nose.

Gosh, after reading everything on this thread, I do feel bad about your situation. But as a passenger traveling to Europe every year for the past 15 years, I feel like the "financial tragedy" has already occurred since I recall the days when I paid approx 1/2 as much for a Euro as compared to today's exchange rate. We're paying 75% more for a British pound too. But I have the choice to biyotch about it or be thankful that I can go and then proceed to make the best of it. I choose the latter. :) Frank Del Rio has read these boards religiously in the past and has responded directly to board members, so you might try contacting him. Good luck.

 

Donna

[lahore]

Hi dbh62ark

 

Yes, agree about exchange rates - that has been the case for us for decades, and now we have this extra problem too. I think the exchange rate thing for us is less of a concern than the lack of parity on price structuring. I know FDR does read these boards. I don't know if it's 'religiously' - his responses seem spasmodic and unpredictable to me. I hope he is reading this.... I sent a two page letter to Oceania when onboard, and am yet to receive a response from anybody. Silence says it all I fear.

[Aussie Gal]

We too have been travelling at least once for the past 13 years and in the past 3 years twice a year or more overseas and we have learned to live with exchange rates. It is just part of travelling and I know we are lucky to be able to do these wonderful trips.

 

I do agree with Lahore that this is nothing to do with exchange rates but it is to do with an unfair bias on the part of the Cruise industry. It is the price structuring and even if we could pay in U.S. dollars, the price would still reflect the difference between what the website in the U.S. quotes and what the T.A.'s down here quote. That is what we are upset about. We are quoted a completely different price to the U.S. and that is why we all feel we are being cheated. Why should we pay more for the same product!

 

Jennie

[2kiwis]

We too have been travelling at least once for the past 13 years and in the past 3 years twice a year or more overseas and we have learned to live with exchange rates. It is just part of travelling and I know we are lucky to be able to do these wonderful trips.

 

 

It's not the exchange rate that we are complaining about, but the fact that wholesalers can (and do) elect to convert from $US to $NZ/$AUS at exchange rates that do not necessarily reflect the CURRENT exchange rate, and therefore we are forced to pay more than necessary for the cruise.

 

I am sure that we all have no problem accepting the exchange rate when it is applied at the going rate.

[2kiwis]

Most people booking a cruise in Australia would be unaware they were being gouged.

Is it any thing to do with the Australian government? No

It is the cruise wholesalers putting pressure on the parent company. If I was an Australian Wholesaler selling cruises (at INFLATED prices) I would not be happy if people were buying their cruises through American Travel Agents.

I refuse to buy a Princess cruise in Australia. Will that make a difference? No

Maybe airing the topic on boards like these might have some small impact. More people will become aware and the cruise lines unfair practices are being discussed.

 

Hopefully, one day the cruise lines will bring pressure to bear on the wholesalers as it is their names that are being dragged into the mud as well.:rolleyes:

[Aussie Gal]

It's not the exchange rate that we are complaining about, but the fact that wholesalers can (and do) elect to convert from $US to $NZ/$AUS at exchange rates that do not necessarily reflect the CURRENT exchange rate, and therefore we are forced to pay more than necessary for the cruise.

 

I am sure that we all have no problem accepting the exchange rate when it is applied at the going rate.

 

That is what I am saying. The prices on the Oceania website when converted from U.S. dollars at the current rate of exchange are nothing like the prices that we are quoted here in Australia. We end up paying at a rate that was set 12-18 months ago and even when our exchange rate is at an all time high against the U.S dollar, the prices are not reduced

 

Jennie

[Aussie Gal]

Sorry double post!

 

Jennie

[dbh62ark]

It's not the exchange rate that we are complaining about, but the fact that wholesalers can (and do) elect to convert from $US to $NZ/$AUS at exchange rates that do not necessarily reflect the CURRENT exchange rate, and therefore we are forced to pay more than necessary for the cruise.

 

I am sure that we all have no problem accepting the exchange rate when it is applied at the going rate.

Yes, I understand what you are saying, but you have misinterpreted my message. I understand that your issue is not with the exchange rates but with the way the way they are being handled to your disadvantage. And the issue is that you are paying more for the same product. If you go back and read my message and the message I responded to, you'll see that I referenced the exchange rate in response to a specific comment about the strength/weakness of the economy in the U.S. Lahore had said that if the U.S. economy weakens, then Oceania might be more flexible in the booking arrangements for Australia and New Zealand residents. I interpreted that to mean that if U.S. citizens can't afford to cruise, then maybe Oceania will be more agreeable in its arrangments with Aussie/NZ residents. What's good for some is bad for others in the U.S. economy, but I was saying that we're already paying much more to travel to Europe, so I can sympathize with your statements that you are paying more to sail on Oceania. I can make the same argument that it's not fair that I have to pay more to travel inside Europe due to the weak dollar than the Europeans pay to travel inside the continent, but I guess I would have to speak to God and/or make sure to vote to try to bring about a remedy to that situation while you all can make pleas to Frank Del Rio. ;) But as I said, I'm just glad that I am able to go at all. :)

 

And I know the comments weren't meant personally, but I hope I won't read any more comments that seem to be wishing ill on the U.S. economy. We work hard and have sacrificed for our education too, and there are real people who are affected by economic downturns. I don't wish that for residents of Australia and New Zealand and would hope the same from my fellow board members.

 

Hopefully Frank Del Rio will take this information into consideration in the future when contracts are up for renewal. I think Oceania is a wonderful cruise line and would like to see everyone treated fairly.

 

Happy travels (and I do mean that :))

Donna

[meow!]

With currency fluctuations, and the fact that the U.S. market is so large that goods manufacturers and service providers are only willing to cut prices to the U.S. market while keeping them high in other markets, many of them try to "box" consumers in different countries to their respective countries. The only real solution to that is to have your respective governments outlaw that practice. Some middle men may lose their jobs, but many consumers will benefit, so a government which champions such a move may indeed gain votes! In the long run, that will benefit all consumers as well as the industries themselves.

[sandydownunder]

Meow,

I couldn't agree more.

Unfortunately prices are geared to what the market is prepared to pay.

Sandra

[2kiwis]

And I know the comments weren't meant personally, but I hope I won't read any more comments that seem to be wishing ill on the U.S. economy. We work hard and have sacrificed for our education too, and there are real people who are affected by economic downturns. I don't wish that for residents of Australia and New Zealand and would hope the same from my fellow board members.Donna

 

Hi Donna

I am sure that no-one on this board would wish ill on your economy or anyone else's for that matter

 

"Down under" we have been use to paying extra for everything for a long time now - It has always "hit us in the pocket" when travelling to the US and Europe, so it is a fact of life for us. It is those who try to make money off this who are the ones we have ill-feelings against.

Unfortunately, the end result is that these issues often take a bit of the gloss off our cruises.

 

In our first posting we also raised the issue of not being entitled to "Free Air" rebates, or free air from US ports. We have noticed that recently some cruise lines are starting to introduce this here, so maybe there will be some hope that this will occur with Oceania?

 

Like you we love cruising with Oceania but sometimes feel a little like "Aliens" (as we have been called on board), or 2nd class passengers, even though usually we pay more to cruise.

 

All this aside, we have booked our next cruise on Nautica and hopefully one day soon all these hassles may be resolved ??

[Ron n Jon]

A few points we would like to make are; here in Canada we ask our TA to quote cruise fares in both US and CDN dollars. Depending on the exchange rate, we will choose one and usually it is the US dollar quote as the Canadian equivalent has been arrived at with far too liberal an exchange rate. Therefore, we purchase US dollars, only at the very best rates available, and hold them within an account. We then obtained a credit card that is for transactions solely in US dollars. Every transaction thereafter pertaining to the cruise is done in US currency including shipboard accounts. There is no conversions of currency on ship, (which can be far too liberal) no conversions at the credit card company (which can be far too liberal) and we simply pay all charges from our US currency account. There are a lot of savings to be achieved going this route.

The choice of going the US dollar route as it pertains to "air included" is that we must leave from and return to a US flight location, which happily in our case is no further away than our major domestic airport.

A final point, which we have often made, is that "gratuities", "tips", "por boire", whatever you choose to call them are but a service charge much like all travel establishments in Europe apply. We do not see them as anything but and we wish the cruise lines would so call them just that. For when we experience exceptional and personal service, we present the deserving person with an envelope contain what truly is our "gratuity” regardless of the paid service charges.

[Aussie Gal]

A few points we would like to make are; here in Canada we ask our TA to quote cruise fares in both US and CDN dollars. Depending on the exchange rate, we will choose one and usually it is the US dollar quote as the Canadian equivalent has been arrived at with far too liberal an exchange rate.

 

If only we had the choice!! I say no more.

 

Jennie

[owl61]

I have tried to read all postings, but frankly got lost along the way. As far as I can tell, there are two issues that are of the essence.

1. Is it legally permissable under either US or applicable foreign law for a cruise company to charge a different price for the identical product to people living in different countries and then to prohibit cross border sales?

2. Is it legally permissable for a cruise company (or TA) to require non-US customers to tender a local currency in an amount sufficient to pay a USD quoted price, but to provide an exchange rate below actual market value. (As exchange rates are always uncertain and negotiable this assumes that the customer has no option to tender USD directly to the cruise company or TA - a questionable assumption.)

 

Am I missing something?

[Aussie Gal]

Owl,

 

You have it spot on. Thanks for putting it so simply.

 

Jennie

[dbh62ark]

Hi Donna

I am sure that no-one on this board would wish ill on your economy or anyone else's for that matter

Hi 2kiwis,

 

Yes, I think the statement regarding the U.S. economic downturn written by another board member just came out wrong due to frustration (or maybe I misunderstood), so no offense taken. But the economy is definitely a sore subject in the U.S. these days according to the polls taken during our pre-election season.

 

"Down under" we have been use to paying extra for everything for a long time now - It has always "hit us in the pocket" when travelling to the US and Europe, so it is a fact of life for us. It is those who try to make money off this who are the ones we have ill-feelings against.

Unfortunately, the end result is that these issues often take a bit of the gloss off our cruises.

 

In our first posting we also raised the issue of not being entitled to "Free Air" rebates, or free air from US ports. We have noticed that recently some cruise lines are starting to introduce this here, so maybe there will be some hope that this will occur with Oceania?

 

Like you we love cruising with Oceania but sometimes feel a little like "Aliens" (as we have been called on board), or 2nd class passengers, even though usually we pay more to cruise.

 

All this aside, we have booked our next cruise on Nautica and hopefully one day soon all these hassles may be resolved ??

I love meeting and visiting with passengers from different countries on our cruises, so I hope this matter will be resolved in your favor in the very near future. So we'll hope for good economies for all and good (and fair) cruise fares for all. :)

 

I have tried to read all postings, but frankly got lost along the way. As far as I can tell, there are two issues that are of the essence.

1. Is it legally permissable under either US or applicable foreign law for a cruise company to charge a different price for the identical product to people living in different countries and then to prohibit cross border sales?

2. Is it legally permissable for a cruise company (or TA) to require non-US customers to tender a local currency in an amount sufficient to pay a USD quoted price, but to provide an exchange rate below actual market value. (As exchange rates are always uncertain and negotiable this assumes that the customer has no option to tender USD directly to the cruise company or TA - a questionable assumption.)

 

Am I missing something?

Yes, and if I'm understanding correctly, I think the additional question is that even if it is legal (and I obviously don't know if it is or isn't legal), there are some board members who are trying to communicate to Oceania that the company is losing money (bookings) based on these practices. For what it's worth, I support what they are saying.

 

Sorry to drift off topic--Ron n Jon, I echo your feelings about tips/gratuities too even though this is an issue with Americans having different norms than what you have in the many areas of the world. I wish tips were just included in the cruise fare so that we could return to the custom that was observed on Holland America ships in the past (HAL has changed their policies and customs too over the years) and that was to reward exceptional service with additional tips. Tips are basically required now, and that means that it’s part of your cruise fare, but I think all the mass market lines are automatically adding tips to your shipboard account now (although I am advised that those can be adjusted by passengers).

 

Donna

[LHT28]

The choice of going the US dollar route as it pertains to "air included" is that we must leave from and return to a US flight location, which happily in our case is no further away than our major domestic airport.

 

Are you sure you cannot depart from a Canadian gateway???

 

We are booked to depart from YYZ and paying in USD to a US TA.

[Sunny Sailing]

Sorry to drift off topic--Ron n Jon, I echo your feelings about tips/gratuities too even though this is an issue with Americans having different norms than what you have in the many areas of the world. I wish tips were just included in the cruise fare so that we could return to the custom that was observed on Holland America ships in the past (HAL has changed their policies and customs too over the years) and that was to reward exceptional service with additional tips. Tips are basically required now, and that means that it’s part of your cruise fare, but I think all the mass market lines are automatically adding tips to your shipboard account now (although I am advised that those can be adjusted by passengers).

 

Donna

 

 

I agree with your sentiments above re tipping Donna.

 

We have to prepay the gratuities (another gripe) when paying for the cruise, so even if it was acceptable, they cannot be adjusted.

However, because tipping is not widespread here I do feel more comfortable having the tips added to the account.

 

Last cruise, even though the gratuities were charged to the account, it was also suggested on board that we can tip anyone we consider has provided exceptional service at the end of the cruise! Surely, once is enough.

[Wendy The Wanderer]

Yes, I dispute this claim too. I always book thru a US TA in USD and leave from Toronto--haven't done it on Oceania yet, but I know Toronto is a gateway.

[lahore]

And I know the comments weren't meant personally, but I hope I won't read any more comments that seem to be wishing ill on the U.S. economy. We work hard and have sacrificed for our education too, and there are real people who are affected by economic downturns. I don't wish that for residents of Australia and New Zealand and would hope the same from my fellow board members.

 

My observation was economic, and I specifically said that i would not wish ill upon anybody. Nevertheless, I must say that I have personally noticed a distinct lack of empathy in the past from SOME USA based citizens on this board about (non-USA) people's problems with exchange rates. Whilst I think the exchange-rate issue is a bit of a side issue to the original topic here, it has been interesting to observe the change in attitude since the recent problems with the US economy; the boot starting to be on the other foot and all....

 

There are 'real people' who are affected by these changes the world over - particularly in developing countries who are infinitely worse off than Australia has ever been, or the USA probably will ever be.

 

And yes, I did mean that if the US economy weakens, cruise lines might need to seek a customer base outside their usual USA base. That was all I meant.