Equal benefits for non-americans!!!!

[ging466]

Hi

 

I can't help thinking it's got a lot to do with TAs. Australians (and other non Americans) have obviously been subsidising for a long time and without knowing it. We have been willing to pay these higher prices because the market asked it and we didn't know any better.

 

When the ability to book cruises over the internet on any overseas site became mainstream, a hell of a lot of business could have been lost by local TAs. Is it possible that they (the industry body?) banded together and pressured these cruiselines to charge the higher prices to those without a North American address?

 

I really don't know why I'm using a TA in Australia, they haven't given me any extra service because it's all been done via email. For my NCL cruise, I'm a solo traveller so I got slugged 200% supplement. In comparison to prices I got in Australia, my price was ok. Like I said earlier, when I spoke to Americans on the cruise, my price was incredibly inflated. I can tell you it left a pretty nasty taste in my mouth.

 

Unfortunately I had already paid deposits on this years cruises so I'm stuck with the TA, next year it will be different.

 

Cheers

Ging

[ging466]

HAL currently allows us non-Americans to book in the USA - thus avoiding the extra charges and giving us the same benefits (e.g., refunds of deposits). I know, because I did it two weeks ago. Agree wholeheartedly with everything else said since Ging's post by both of you.

 

Hi Lahore

 

HAL's Australian website shows inflated prices compared with its North American website but if they allow us to book over the internet on American websites that is really good news. I will put HAL back on my check list...thankx for the info.

 

Cheers

Ging

[lahore]

Hey Ging :D . Have a read very early on in this thread, search for my posting on the GSA agreements between Oceania (in this instance) and the wholesaler in Australia, which very definitely is there to {attempt to} corral us into using their services. That piece of information came to me from my USA-based travel agent last year.

 

I didn't look at HAL's Aussie website, I don't look seriously at any Australian cruise website. I get some of the Australian cruise specialist TA's emails/newsletters and they make me shudder. Occasionally I would look at one of the deals that include air, but not often and they have never been good enough for me to seriously considered booking one. I can't share the name of my online dealer here, but suffice to say their name is to do with cruise and quick, then there's the dotcom. I have booked, paid for and taken four cruises with them. You have to do the homework first, they are a no frills provider. You go to them when you know what you want and want the lowest price possible. Good luck with your research. Continue to fight against unfair pricing - we can, and will, take our custom elsewhere.

In solidarity :D :D Lyn

[2kiwis]

Isn't it incredible, that in todays global economy, we are having this conversation.

 

What's more, the arogance of it all defies me. On board these ships you get invited to promotions of their future cruises and the Free air etc is prominantly displayed. Unless a non-American challenges this, there is nothing said about it not being available to all. Of course when that happens it ends up with a lot of disgruntled passengers who have suddenly found out that they have been really disadvantaged and treated unfairly. As said in a recent posting one one cruise 10% of the passengers were from NZ - I know because there was a cocktail party for them all, and they unbeknowingly had paid over the odds for their cruise

 

We have had appointments with the ships CEO to discuss this matter and have been told that they constantly receive the same complaint from UK, NZ and Australian and other non-American passengers. These complaints get forwarded to Head Office, but nothing is ever done.

 

I know we have the option to not cruise with these companies and that is most probably what will happen in the end. However, when it a service that is so good it is a shame, as the staff onboard the ships, who make our cruises so great, are not responsible for this

[Rosslyn]

I have found this thread fascinating as I was about to book my second cruise on Oceania next year. Whilst I thoroughly enjoyed my Mediterranean cruise onboard Insignia last year, this thread made me think and really look into the 'ins and outs' of being an Aussie and Oceania policy.

 

For the cruise I wanted, the best I could get from Australian agents (not the first quoted price I might add - I had to complain and force the agent to go back to the Oceania rep and complain on my behalf) was still $AUD 1,000 per person more expensive (with no air) than I could source online from Cruise Quotes. I did find an American agent who would book me on Oceania but it was to be a 'covert' operation which I did not feel comfortable with.

 

As a result, I researched Azamara and have just booked with an American Agent (all above board) for a considerable price discount to what I could have achieved here. I feel comfortable knowing everything is 'legal'.

 

My first preference would have been Oceania, but I just couldn't justify taking the risk or paying the price difference ($AUD2,000 on a comparable 14 day med cruise).

 

Thanks for all your input cruisers!

[Iamboatman]

I have read this thread with interest. There are a few forces at work and I have spent a good bit of time speaking with Oceania about their approach and the rationale for same. The problem is the rational is different whomever you speak to. I will not get into specifics, but it ranges from regulatory to marketing.

 

The long and the short of it is that Oceania could every easily open up its marketing for travel agents internationally, but it has affirmatively chosen not to.

 

It is very easy to see that the pricing is such that it differs not only in cruise fare, but terms (amount of deposit, time of payment, what is included/excluded), so that it is virtually impossible for the untrained to readily figure out if cabins are being under-priced, sold at a premium or the same from one market to the other.

 

This approach protects Oceania and, in a strange sort of way, strengthens is relationship with chosen non-U.S. travel agencies. Simply put, in the short term, it assures Oceania a protected European/ Australasian market at the expensive of its US travel agents with loyal international clients as well as INFORMED international clients who want to be respected enough to not be the focus of unfavorable pricing.

 

BTW, the discussion of possible violation of US law is really going nowhere. What a company does in a foreign country is, for the most part, subject to the laws of that country; not the US. The US laws discussed were put in place to protect US consumers; not foreign nationals.

[meow!]

This approach protects Oceania and, in a strange sort of way, strengthens is relationship with chosen non-U.S. travel agencies. Simply put, in the short term, it assures Oceania a protected European/ Australasian market at the expensive of its US travel agents with loyal international clients as well as INFORMED international clients who want to be respected enough to not be the focus of unfavorable pricing.

Your posting is too difficult to understand!

[Iamboatman]

Sorry:o , let's try this:

 

Oceania is protecting its non-US travel agents from good old free enterprise, effectively eliminating competition.

 

The other thing it does is make it easy for Oceania to manipulate prices so that cheaper fares may be offered where its sales are slow...but then hide the fact by adding on things like gratuities so international comparisons aren't that easy. (With the internet an Aussie and a Yank can search the same websites for pricing and would quickly be able to see any disparity, but if you bundle the product that comparison becomes more difficult.)

 

Is that better?:)

[lahore]

Iamboatman - I found your post perfectly easy to understand, and it's basically the same as what I said pages ago - it's the GSA agreement in other words. In still other words, for the informed cruiser, it sucks :mad: . One can only hope that the latter category continues to increase, as is evident here, however slowly.

 

Rosslyn: good for you. It's so sad though, that we have to go against what we want to do (e.g., remain loyal to Oceania) because their sentiment is not returned. I have booked a back to back long cruise on HAL next year - a reasonable amount of money, also through a USA based seller, all legit. Oceania IS losing money and passengers (loyal ones too) over this.

 

Does anyone out there have the email addie of the Aussie wholesaler? I would like to send them a link to this discussion, unless anyone else has already done so?

[lord of the seas]

Iamboatman - I found your post perfectly easy to understand, and it's basically the same as what I said pages ago - it's the GSA agreement in other words. In still other words, for the informed cruiser, it sucks :mad: . One can only hope that the latter category continues to increase, as is evident here, however slowly.

 

Rosslyn: good for you. It's so sad though, that we have to go against what we want to do (e.g., remain loyal to Oceania) because their sentiment is not returned. I have booked a back to back long cruise on HAL next year - a reasonable amount of money, also through a USA based seller, all legit. Oceania IS losing money and passengers (loyal ones too) over this.

 

Does anyone out there have the email addie of the Aussie wholesaler? I would like to send them a link to this discussion, unless anyone else has already done so?

 

lahore,tell this guy he is the Aussie cruiser that gets the message across.an interesting website.We met on a cruise a few years ago.

 

www.allanfox.id.au

[2kiwis]

Sorry:o , let's try this:

 

Oceania is protecting its non-US travel agents from good old free enterprise, effectively eliminating competition.

 

:)

 

 

As mentioned by Lahore the only thing this is doing for Oceania is ensuring that many people elect not to cruise with them again. Once you get on board your first cruise it becomes apparent that you have paid much more than the Americans for the same product, and therefore many non-americans move to other cruiselines that can be booked in the US.

 

In NZ (and possibly Australia?) we are protected by a Consumer Guarantee Act. Therefore, if we book a cruise on-board an Oceania ship, we have the right to expect that the wholesaler will not charge more than the price quoted by Oceania. As mentioned in a previous posting, our wholesaler still tried it on with us by adding $1600 extra per person to our quote! We challenged the extra costing because it could not be quantified, and had the wholesaler insisted on the extra payment we would have registered a complaint with the appropriate authority, which would have also reflected badly on Oceania! In addition, it is disappointing to note that, even when we book on board, we do not get the free air rebate.

 

As repeat cruisers we are aware of the pitfalls and agree with Lahore that many non-American cruisers end up paying far too much for their cruise. In reality this behaviour is endorsed by Oceania because they know what goes on by the numerous complaints they receive. What is wrong with people being able to get the best deal from wherever they can? Those who still feel more comfortable booking through local suppliers who charge a permium can still do so.

 

It is interesting to note that Silverseas have dropped their contract with the Australian wholesaler and opened their own office. Maybe they have realised that the market down here is big enough to treat on an equal footing with the US?

[ging466]

According to the Vacations To Go website:

 

"Costa, Holland America, MSC, NCL, Oceania, Princess, Royal Caribbean and Star Clippers now prohibit U.S. travel agencies (including Vacations To Go) from selling cruises to customers who do not have a residence in the U.S. or Canada. "

 

Although Lahore has been able to book HAL without any problems.

 

I was ripped off blind on NCL for my last cruise because I had no idea that this went on.

 

I've just been looking at a great RCI cruise to the Canary Islands. If I was able to buy this from the US, I could afford a single balcony cabin. If I buy this in Australia (which I would have to do), I would be paying the same price for an oceanview only cabin. The whole thing is an absolute joke.

 

What can a few people do about it though?...most people that I've spoken to haven't any idea that there is this big rip off going on.

 

Cheers

Ging466

[ging466]

I can't share the name of my online dealer here. I have booked, paid for and taken four cruises with them. You have to do the homework first, they are a no frills provider. You go to them when you know what you want and want the lowest price possible. Good luck with your research. Continue to fight against unfair pricing - we can, and will, take our custom elsewhere. In solidarity :D :D Lyn

 

Hi Lahore

A question for u...do u get all yr docs via email? I note on their website that they mail the docs too...and have u only used them for HAL cruises or other cruiselines also?

 

Thankx very much.

 

Cheers

Ging466:)

[lahore]

Hi, I have used the same online agency for the last three cruises; two with Oceania and one with RCL. I think we got sent tickets for RCL, I think we got them sent to the hotel in San Diego as it left from USA. For the two Oceania cruises I got sent the bare essentials by email. Oceania doesn't really need much other than the passport for check-in in my experience. For HAL who knows, I haven't thought that far in advance.

[lahore]

Sorry, slow connection, duplicate post.

[lovecruisingtoo]

In all the discussion about how much business Oceania is losing, everyone forgets that the ships, for the most part, sail without any empty cabins. This is a simple case of supply and demand. They have enough demand with their current pricing practices and so they do not need to change. Not that it is right - just a fact.

[phillipahain]

With the US and the UK headed for a major recession and oil prices ever rising do you seriously think O will stay full forever ?

 

They certainly wont if they carry on the way they did on our Orient cruise either

[lovecruisingtoo]

With the US and the UK headed for a major recession and oil prices ever rising do you seriously think O will stay full forever ?

 

They certainly wont if they carry on the way they did on our Orient cruise either

 

Key is that they are full NOW. If they have a problem filling the ships next year, or the year after, they will adjust their prices then. Why lower prices IN ANTICIPATION of a problem that they have no indication will happen?

[lahore]

lovecruisingtoo; yep, they aren't losing cabins, but they are losing passengers who would very likely have been lucrative, return customers who have several holidays a year. Maybe, in some bizarre business world, they can be cavalier about that now - but as I have said before as a long term STRATEGIC business plan, it's just plain stupid. Discriminatory, unfair, and stupid.

[2kiwis]

Key is that they are full NOW. If they have a problem filling the ships next year, or the year after, they will adjust their prices then. Why lower prices IN ANTICIPATION of a problem that they have no indication will happen?

 

Our complaint as non-americans is not about Oceania lowering their prices its about treating all their passengers the same.

 

As it stands Americans pay lower prices because of the deals they are offered, and everyone else subsidises them. What's wrong with everyone getting the same deals? Surely cruising is more interesting when there is a range of nationalities on board, rather than all Americans?

[lord of the seas]

There has been a breakthrough for those outside of the US to book and get the same deal on Oceania.I know, I have done it.

[lahore]

Do tell us more, Lord??

[2kiwis]

There has been a breakthrough for those outside of the US to book and get the same deal on Oceania.I know, I have done it.

 

 

I think we would all be interested in that...............:)

Cheers

[lord of the seas]

Do tell us more, Lord??

 

Do you have an email address so I can contact you with the info?

[lahore]

I do, but I am not sure I want to publish it here, in fact I'm pretty sure I don't. I would really like to hear from you though. Any other suggestions?

 

I know, how about my facebook site - I can accept you as 'a friend' and then we can communicate whilst I can block others, it's:

 

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=546233662