An accessibility issue with Eurodam

[Oceanwench]

DH and I have booked a cruise on the Eurodam for the fall.

DH is in a wheelchair and we always book an accessible room. No problem there.

 

However, given his mobility problem, he cannot transfer from his chair to a high bed -- as in the pillowtop beds that HAL ships have.

In the past, on Vista ships, the staff was able to come up with one of the "old" mattress and used it to replace the pillowtop.

But the Eurodam doesn't have any old mattresses.

 

He's been on the telephone with the Access & Compliance people, but they can't give him an answer, other than they will only have the pillowtop mattresses in all the cabins.

 

Yes, it's still 10 months or so until we cruise -- but this is an issue that is very important for us to resolve. It's a matter of being able to get in/out of bed!

 

We may end up changing our plans and sailing on the Westerdam, or trying out another cruise line.

 

DH can't be the only person with mobility issues!

[Desdemona01]

this makes no sense! I've frequently read where people have requested egg crates, etc. for the beds and have received them--I can't believe they can't keep a half dozen or so thinner mattresses on board for this type of situation--especially when they know in advance that a pax will be needing it! I would imagine that many people with mobility issues would need a lower bed. HAL could be losing loyal pax over this type of situation....

[hammybee]

I am thinking the ADA folk will have a big issue with this.

 

I would accelerate this up the HAL food chain cause either the people who are telling you this are misinformed or it's something that has fallen through the cracks in terms of planning.

[Oceanwench]

I don't believe the ADA addresses the height of beds. I'll ask DH, who is well-versed in the matter.

Also I am not sure if the ADA guidelines which will apply to cruise ships have been hammered out.

 

DH has been on the telephone for two days with various people in Seattle.

I think because the ship has not been launched, many staffers do not have the specifics -- other than there will be the new bedding throughout the ship.

[howard6933]

I can understand your displeasure about the information you've received from HAL. Why don't you get in touch with customer service. The Eurodam is a brand new ship, as you know, and maybe the people in the home office aren't up to snuff about the things on board this vessel. We're going on Eurodam in December and I've asked if wheelchairs are available on board. My wife had knee replacement surgery recently and a wheelchair would really be helpful.

My TA told me that there are NOT any wheelchairs available for use on board, but they are available for embarkation and disembarkation. I'm going to wait until after July when Eurodam makes her first voyages and then I'll contact customer service. Maybe by that time I will be able to get the real scoop. :rolleyes:

[hammybee]

I don't believe the ADA addresses the height of beds. I'll ask DH, who is well-versed in the matter.

Also I am not sure if the ADA guidelines which will apply to cruise ships have been hammered out.

 

DH has been on the telephone for two days with various people in Seattle.

I think because the ship has not been launched, many staffers do not have the specifics -- other than there will be the new bedding throughout the ship.

 

You are right. Furniture and other moveable objects do not fall under the ADA and bed heights are a common problem at hotels.

[Oceanwench]

I can understand your displeasure about the information you've received from HAL. Why don't you get in touch with customer service. The Eurodam is a brand new ship, as you know, and maybe the people in the home office aren't up to snuff about the things on board this vessel. We're going on Eurodam in December and I've asked if wheelchairs are available on board. My wife had knee replacement surgery recently and a wheelchair would really be helpful.

My TA told me that there are NOT any wheelchairs available for use on board, but they are available for embarkation and disembarkation. I'm going to wait until after July when Eurodam makes her first voyages and then I'll contact customer service. Maybe by that time I will be able to get the real scoop. :rolleyes:

 

I believe my husband has spoken to the Access & Compliance people and Ships Services people. He's had conversations with a number of people. He just keeps getting told that there will be the new bedding in all the cabins, and there are no lower mattresses to switch out.

 

He's doing this far in advance because if we can't be assured of having a bed he can actually get into, then we want to book something else ASAP. The HC cabins sell out fast on HAL, and we'd hate to be shut out if we have to book the Westerdam.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Oceanwench

 

Does the cabin you have booked have a sofa that can be made into a bed which your husband can handle?

[Zeta3]

Howard,

 

I don't think the info will change. Even on HAL's website they state that they have wheelchairs available for embarkation and disembarkation but that for use around the ship you would need to order a rental or bring your own.

[jtl513]

Pardon my ignorance on such matters, but couldn't a small step-stool maybe 6" high be used to get up to the new mattress height? :confused: HAL should be able to come up with something like that.

[Oceanwench]

I am not sure - we booked a VA, and the HC VAs on the Vistas have sofas. Don't know about the Eurodam, but I would think so!

But we have never had to use one -- and I am not sure if it opens up or what.

It's hard to explain to a person who does not have a disability -- but he needs to have a bed with a nightstand next to it.

He needs to use the nightstand for leverage getting out of bed!

 

Not sure with the configuration of the sofa in a VA, if that would be possible.

We've always had the 6003/4 VAs on Vista ships, which have a large post in the room, so those sofas would not open up, I know.

 

DH is very happy with HAL and enjoys the Vista ships because he knows everything will work out for him. He's familiar with the layout of the cabins which is comforting. For people with a neurological disease, less stress is better!

[Oceanwench]

Pardon my ignorance on such matters, but couldn't a small step-stool maybe 6" high be used to get up to the new mattress height? :confused: HAL should be able to come up with something like that.

 

No problem - if you don't deal with a person with a disability such as this, you wouldn't know.

DH cannot walk. He could not lift his legs to step up on a step-stool.

That's one of the benefits of an HC cabin -- no step into the shower.

It's a roll-in.

It's all a matter of sliding and pivoting ...

 

But I do appreciate the suggestion! :)

[Krazy Kruizers]

You are right - the sofa bed will not work out. There is nothing near them no matter which way the sofa opens up for your DH to use as leverage to get out of the bed. Even maneuvering the a table won't help.

 

It was just an idea.

[Aunty Pat]

Howard,

My sister also needed a wheel chair to use because she was recovering from foot surgery on our New Years cruise. When I called HAL to arrange for one, they directed me Care Vacations to rent the wheel chair. There are various types and sizes to choose from. They also have the electric scooters.

When we got to the terminal in Ft. Lauderdale HAL provided a wheel chair for her to use during embarkation in Ft. Lauderdale. The also provided a crewmember to push it. They wouldn’t let her or one of us push it. I think the chairs are stored at the terminals and not on the ships. We saw the same crewmember take the wheel chair back off after she boarded.

The rental chair was waiting for her in the cabin when we got there. She used it through out the cruise. It was $90 to rent the chair for the 7 day cruise.

At disembarkation all the passengers needing wheel chair assistance where told to go to the Explorer’s Lounge. We left my sister there and took the rented chair back to the cabin where it was to be picked by Care Vacations. Again a crewmember pushed the chair for my sister all the way through disembarkation to the bus we were taking to the airport.

Aunty Pay

 

Barefoot Windjammer - Phantom ‘81

K&D German Rhine Line ‘84

NCL - Norway ’85, Pride of America ’05, Southward ’87, Star ’97 & ‘05, Starward ’92, Sun ’02 & Windward ’93

RCC - Song of America ‘89

American Hawaiian - Independence ‘98

HAL - Volendam ’99, Noordam ’06, Oosterdam ’07, Statendam ’02, Prinsendam ’03 & ’06, Zuiderdam ’04, ’06 & ‘07

Carnival - Spirit ‘05

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Cruise West - Yorktown Clipper ‘06

Princess - Golden Princess ‘07

A & K - East Queen ‘07

Pending Cruises – QM2 Feb. 2 ’08 & Eurodam Oct.1 ‘08

[kryos]

this makes no sense! I've frequently read where people have requested egg crates, etc. for the beds and have received them--I can't believe they can't keep a half dozen or so thinner mattresses on board for this type of situation--especially when they know in advance that a pax will be needing it! I would imagine that many people with mobility issues would need a lower bed. HAL could be losing loyal pax over this type of situation....

They shouldn't be just keeping some of the thinner mattresses onboard for this type of problem ... the handicapped cabins should already be equipped with these thinner mattresses. Most handicapped cabins are occupied by wheelchair-confined folks. Obviously those folks have to get in and out of bed. Why on earth would HAL have thick mattresses on the beds in handicapped cabins to begin with? Obviously someone in Seattle wasn't thinking.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Oceanwench]

While that would be a great idea, Rita, the problem is that the HC cabins that might not get booked [it does happen!] are used for pax who book GTYs.

It would be unfair for these pax to have to settle for one of the thinner mattresses when they are expecting what everyone else gets -- the pillowtops people enthuse about!

 

It's easier for HAL to store a few thinner mattresses and use them when needed.

Not all people in wheelchairs have the same mobility issues, so not everyone needing an HC cabin would require the thinner mattress.

 

We spend a lot of time at Walt Disney World and always stay on site. Their standard hotel rooms have the higher mattresses, but the HC rooms always have the lower ones. I don't think it's as much as an issue for them, though -- people don't wax enthusiastic about WDW beds!

[kryos]

Yes, it's still 10 months or so until we cruise -- but this is an issue that is very important for us to resolve. It's a matter of being able to get in/out of bed!

Seriously, if I couldn't get a satisfactory answer from HAL regarding your husband's needs, I would just skip the Eurodam and sail one of the Vista ships where he knows his needs will be met. Otherwise, you may wind up having to lift him in and out of bed the entire cruise.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Oceanwench]

Seriously, if I couldn't get a satisfactory answer from HAL regarding your husband's needs, I would just skip the Eurodam and sail one of the Vista ships where he knows his needs will be met. Otherwise, you may wind up having to lift him in and out of bed the entire cruise.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

I have resigned myself to that alternative ... I am hoping we can resolve this matter and go forward.

Seems a shame, though, we can't sail on the Eurodam on the itinerary we'd like.

[OVgirl]

All they need to do is lower the bed frame in some way. Then the extra comfortable mattress would be at a better height for getting in or out. Maybe they could just lay the mattress on the floor(or on another mattress).Hope this cruise works out for you.

[kryos]

While that would be a great idea, Rita, the problem is that the HC cabins that might not get booked [it does happen!] are used for pax who book GTYs.

It would be unfair for these pax to have to settle for one of the thinner mattresses when they are expecting what everyone else gets -- the pillowtops people enthuse about!

Aren't guarantees cheaper? At least that's what my travel agent told me. So, then ... if you are booking a guarantee, you have to expect that it is entirely possible that you could wind up in a handicapped cabin. Those cabins are set up to accommodate handicapped folks. So, if you happen to be unlucky enough to draw one of these cabins, you can't complain too loudly that your bed doesn't have the thick mattress. If that's a real problem to someone, then maybe they should just part with the extra money and book a set cabin. The handicapped accessible cabins should be set up with the handicapped passenger's needs in mind, and if an ablebodied passenger happens to draw that cabin with their guarantee, too bad. They have to live with it ... just like they will have to live with no tub, only a roll-in shower, if they draw an outside handicapped cabin.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[leoandhugh]

Sorry, Rita but there are lots of us in wheelchairs who can manage and appreciate the higher mattress for the comfort it provides - not all of us in wheelchairs cannot stand, as the DH of the OP. It would seem the obvious solution would be to remove the bed frame and just put the mattress and springs on the floor. That would lower the actual height of the bed by the height of the frame. And I would not expect to get a definite answer out of Seattle until the Eurodam is actually in service - as we all know, even then it is sometimes difficult:)

[Oceanwench]

Sorry, Rita but there are lots of us in wheelchairs who can manage and appreciate the higher mattress for the comfort it provides - not all of us in wheelchairs cannot stand, as the DH of the OP. It would seem the obvious solution would be to remove the bed frame and just put the mattress and springs on the floor. That would lower the actual height of the bed by the height of the frame. And I would not expect to get a definite answer out of Seattle until the Eurodam is actually in service - as we all know, even then it is sometimes difficult:)

 

I agree - the thinner mattresses should be stored [and we're not talking about a large number ...] and used for those pax with HC which prevent them from climbing into a high bed.

 

As far as waiting for a definitive answer from HAL AFTER the Eurodam is launched, it's a matter of being able to book a cruise at all next fall. It has been our experience that we cannot get a HC cabin unless we book almost a year out. If we wait until the Eurodam is in service, and they cannot accommodate DH's request, then it will most likely be too late for us to make alternative plans on the Westerdam.

 

As far as guarantees, Rita, my daughters and other family members have booked GTYs and have always paid the same rate for that category as people who choose their cabins. If we book them a GG GTY, they pay what everyone else booking a specific GG cabin pays.

 

Not all HC cabins lack a tub. While the VAs on the Vistas do not have a tub, the SS cabins do.

 

I just don't see the fairness of penalizing a person who books a GTY and then, through the luck of the draw, gets a HC room and has to deal with a thinner mattress.

 

I do like the suggestion of removing the bed frame and will mention it to DH for his further dialogue with Seattle on this matter!

Thanks for those who came up with this idea! :)

[rangeley]

Let me start by saying that we too have had a problem with the bed height. We addressed this problem with the hotel manager on the Westerdam in 2006. On our recent cruise on the Zuiderdam we did request the old mattress, and they still had some onboard. As far as I'm concerned the old mattresses are just great!! Actually the most comfortable mattress I've slept on. As for "fairness" to able bodied people, I'm shocked that anyone that is not hc can even make such a comment. My quadrapeligic fiance shouldnt have to fight with HAL to get a mattress that he can transfer to. Oceanwench: The Westerdam does have the higher pillowtop mattresses and there are no other mattresses on board.

[Oceanwench]

Let me start by saying that we too have had a problem with the bed height. We addressed this problem with the hotel manager on the Westerdam in 2006. On our recent cruise on the Zuiderdam we did request the old mattress, and they still had some onboard. As far as I'm concerned the old mattresses are just great!! Actually the most comfortable mattress I've slept on. As for "fairness" to able bodied people, I'm shocked that anyone that is not hc can even make such a comment. My quadrapeligic fiance shouldnt have to fight with HAL to get a mattress that he can transfer to. Oceanwench: The Westerdam does have the higher pillowtop mattresses and there are no other mattresses on board.

 

I think you may be misunderstanding the "fairness" comments.

 

I have stated that I think it unfair if the thinner mattresses would be permanently placed in the HC cabins, as HAL uses those cabins -- when they are not booked -- for able-bodied pax who have GTYs or have been upgraded.

I don't think those pax should have to have a thinner mattress for their cruise.

 

Nor should HC pax have to have the thinner mattress if they do not have mobility issues.

 

But for those who need the thinner mattresses, such as DH, HAL should have a few in storage that they can pull out when the need arises. Otherwise, we -- and others -- will not be able to sail that particular ship.

 

We have been assured by Seattle's Access and Compliance staff that the Westerdam does have the thinner mattresses, as that is our fall-back cruise if the Eurodam has to be canceled.

So now I am really concerned.

[rangeley]

Sorry Oceanwench, I misunderstood.