Tipping and Automatic gratuity

[Jesterscourt]

I am going to express and opinion or really a feeling that I have been getting over the last few years reading these boards. What is this fanaticism with tipping we have gotten ourselves into? It seems some of us are obsessed with carrying around our envelopes of cash tipping for every little thing even though there is already a very efficient automatic gratuity of $10 per day/person. It almost seems when we sneak our cabin stewards an advanced tip that we are paying her/him off just to do their jobs. When I slipped my cabin steward $20 on our first day, I saw a look of awkwardness and surprise in his face as if I thought he wouldn't do a good job unless I "paid him off". I will never do that again. People should be tipped after they do something to make you feel special, not as a "payoff" to do their job. The automatic gratuity is a convenience for us and guarantees that staff we don't come in contact with also benefit from tips. Beyond that, tipping should be a personal and private endeavor. Yet I feel some of us are showing off on these boards when we do our ship reviews, how exorbitantly we tip. And I think that is ruining it for everyone else. Now those who don't tip quite as extravagantly may be made to feel guilty, or worse, all the staff will grow to expect to be tipped by us beyond the automatic tip every time, even if they don't earn it. I am not being critical as much as I would like us to take a look at our behavior and how it is coming across to others.

[Harp Girl]

You make a good point Jesterscourt. We've only been on one cruise (leaving for our second next Saturday) so I don't have much experience to draw from, but I too believe tipping should be a "thank you" for special service. My concern is that, with auto tipping in place, if there were no incentive to provide extra services eventually basic services would be come status quo. We did give a thank you card with a monetary thank you in it to a couple people who provided service over and above expectations. One of them was to a young man who always asked us if we were expecting to attend the show, or bingo game or whatever entertainment was planned, if we were, he prepared a table for us in advance with 4 glasses of ice and 2 diet cokes and 2 regular cokes because he knew that was what we would want. Now that's the kind of service I believe in tipping.

[dakrewser]

Not to worry, the staff knows exactly what the bribers and the "big spenders" are up to - and have story-telling sessions about them, after hours!

 

;)

[Tampa Girl]

Bless you, Jesterscourt!

 

I, too, have been reading how passengers are tipping the steward who brings them their morning coffee; lunch; or whatever - and wondering why is this necessary?? I agree that we as Americans have a tendency to tip everyone and to tip too much. What we forget is that not all countries are accustomed to accepting tips, i.e. cab drivers in Japan). IMHO we risk offending the very people we want to please. And we certainly spoil it for other people. I think that I will confine my tipping to extraordinary service and for a farewell thank you.

 

 

Virginia

[KAKcruiser]

I also feel that the automatic gratuity is enough. This is the danger with anything automatic. More becomes expected.

[CPeters40]

I also feel that the automatic gratuity is enough. This is the danger with anything automatic. More becomes expected.

 

I just want to add, that if I have received exceptional service, I ALWAYS include their name in the survey at the end. They say this helps the employees with promotions on the ship.

Chris

Zuiderdam Jan 2008

[Sopwith]

As one who has traveled in Indonesia and several other southeast Asian countries, I find the fixation for tipping on HAL ships curious. This is because in Indonesia, where most of the crew come from, tipping is not done, even in the big, international five star hotel chains. Their culture holds that we do the best job we can, and we shouldn't have to have a monetary incentive to do it. (In spite of this, at the end of one two week trip to Jakarta I tipped our driver 50,000 rupiah (~US$20) and he thought he had won the lottery.)

 

So why are we expected to tip the Indonesian crew on a cruise ship? Because the American owners have trained the crew to expect it as part of their remuneration. What it boils down to is a downloading of responsibility for paying a decent salary to the customers. The strongest evidence of this is the switch HAL made several years ago from the "No tipping required" policy to the automatic deduction, which puts undue pressure on the customer to comply with an unwanted policy. In my mind the auto-tipping process is nothing more than a fare increase in disguise. I would prefer to see them simply roll it into the fare rather than subject me to the disingenuous snow job that "we are making the tipping process more convenient". Then the customers would be at liberty to do what tipping is intended to do, i.e. reward staff for service above and beyond the normal expectation.

[garydm]

Agree completely with the OP. Somehow we passengers have evolved the auto gratuity into a base service charge and now tipping is anticipated on top of that.

 

Gary

[NoNoNanette]

I don't understand the problem here. Personally, I enjoy tipping. It makes me feel good to brighten someone's day.

 

Why should it matter to anyone how I choose to tip?

 

To each his/her own.

 

I'll get flamed for this, but it's too easy to use these declarations in order to justify being a cheapskate.

 

Furthermore, I've never "offended" anyone by slipping them cash, a word of thanks and a genuine smile. To think otherwise is delusional.

[jtl513]

Agree completely with the OP. Somehow we passengers have evolved the auto gratuity into a base service charge and now tipping is anticipated on top of that.

 

Gary

HAL has been calling the $10/p/d a Hotel Service Charge for at least 14 months now, both in their pubs and on the final ship bills. I think their intent is for people to not think of it as a gratuity. Note that the word "gratuities" is only mentioned for non-HAL employees.

 

Hotel Service Charge

Our crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of your cruise meets the highest standards. This includes those crewmembers who serve you directly, such as dining room wait staff and the stewards who service your stateroom each day. There are also many others who support their efforts whom you may never meet, such as galley and laundry staff. To ensure that the efforts of all of our crewmembers are recognized and rewarded, a Hotel Service Charge of $10 per passenger is automatically added to each guest's shipboard account on a daily basis. If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you are free to adjust this amount at the end of the cruise. The Hotel Service Charge is paid entirely to Holland America Line crewmembers, and represents an important part of their compensation. A 15% service charge is automatically added to bar charges and dining room wine purchases.

 

In terminals, airports, ports of call and on shore excursions, we suggest that you extend gratuities consistent with customary local practices.

[Roz]

I tip extra at the end of the cruise if I feel that someone has done an exceptional job. Getting my dinner order correct every night is exceptional, based on the poor service I get in restaurants stateside. :D Remembering I eat sherbet and drink a cup of black coffee as my after dinner dessert is exceptional. My room steward remembering my name, and greeting me every morning is exceptional.

 

I agree with Nanette, tipping as a gesture of sincere appreciation is hardly a bribe.

 

Roz

[Two if by Sea]

I'll get flamed for this, but it's too easy to use these declarations in order to justify being a cheapskate.

 

There may be someone who uses these declarations to avoid having to part with money, but for me, the problem is awkwardness and uncertainty and a feeling that these little piddling amounts could in and of themselves be taken the wrong way.

 

I would gladly pay double the amount of whatever tips are reasonable in order to not have to keep giving it to people in dribs and drabs.

 

If the concierge could take a big wad of cash at the start of the cruise and handle all my tipping for me, I would be very happy.

[jtl513]

I agree with Nanette, tipping as a gesture of sincere appreciation is hardly a bribe.

 

Roz

Timing is everything. Money slipped to a Maitre d' in advance of any service (such as a table or time change) being rendered is a bribe. I consider cash given to a room steward on the first day to be a bribe.

[NoNoNanette]

The "bribe" accusation is laughable when directed towards us.

 

There are some days that we tell our guy not to bother with the room. "Take a break, honey....they work you too hard. Leave towels and toilet paper."

 

The only thing that I ask is for ICE and plenty of it. :rolleyes:

[Route6A]

Tipping is a very personal matter. Because most cruise lines currently choose to use a "hotel charge" or an automatic tipping system, anything extra one gives to the cruise staff is an additional gesture of thanks for a job well done. Tipping is also influenced by each passenger's own financial situation, and I expect the crew understands that.

 

I have always enjoyed being generous to the HAL crew members, because they provide such excellent service, and I give staff an additional tip at the end of the cruise, with the exception of room service stewards and the concierge in the Neptune Lounge, both of whom I tip as service is provided.

 

I do understand the position of those who feel the hotel charge is sufficient. All this could be avoided if cruise lines would charge fares that reflect the true per passenger cost of a cruise. Marketing strategy prevents that I am sure.

[Sopwith]

Hotel Service Charge

Our crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of your cruise meets the highest standards. This includes those crewmembers who serve you directly, such as dining room wait staff and the stewards who service your stateroom each day. There are also many others who support their efforts whom you may never meet, such as galley and laundry staff. To ensure that the efforts of all of our crewmembers are recognized and rewarded, a Hotel Service Charge of $10 per passenger is automatically added to each guest's shipboard account on a daily basis.

 

This is code for "We charge 90% of the fare up front and the other 10% after you board the ship."

[AlohaPride]

We leave the "hotel charge" in place and pack a few things from "hawaii" and give those to our room steward and dining attendants.

[Taxguy7]

Exactly!

[dakrewser]

What it boils down to is a downloading of responsibility for paying a decent salary to the customers.

 

Um, in every business I know it's the customers who pay the employees salaries. How else could it be done????

[Sopwith]

Um, in every business I know it's the customers who pay the employees salaries. How else could it be done????

 

In the business I run ($20 million per year, 200 employees) I pay the salaries, and I pay 100% of the salaries. I pay very competetive salaries to keep the people around, and on top of that I pay hundreds of thousands of dollars per year in profit sharing and performance bonuses. (Some people might call these tips if I were in another business.)

 

The client pays a negotiated fee based on the value of the service they receive, which has absolutely no connection to what I pay the employees. Many of our clients have expressed appreciation and thanks for the level of service they receive, but in 30 years in the business, no client has EVER offered a tip nor has one been expected.

[Two if by Sea]

Um, in every business I know it's the customers who pay the employees salaries. How else could it be done????

 

In most businesses, the customers do not decide on an individual basis how much to pay the employees!

 

If a particular HAL ship captain was so terrible that 50% of all people refused to sail his ships and bookings dropped precipitously, he would be fired -- they wouldn't just cut his salary by 50%.

 

Even in the consulting business, we set our rates and our clients either pay them or don't hire us -- I don't let them decide what to pay after the fact.

[dakrewser]

In the business I run ($20 million per year, 200 employees) I pay the salaries, and I pay 100% of the salaries. I pay very competetive salaries to keep the people around, and on top of that I pay hundreds of thousands of dollars per year in profit sharing and performance bonuses. (Some people might call these tips if I were in another business.)

 

The client pays a negotiated fee based on the value of the service they receive, which has absolutely no connection to what I pay the employees. Many of our clients have expressed appreciation and thanks for the level of service they receive, but in 30 years in the business, no client has EVER offered a tip nor has one been expected.

 

We're not talking tips, it was SALARIES that were mentioned. And, unless you're digging into savings, it's the customers who pay the salaries. And the other overhead. And the profit. Whether it's in fees, retail/wholesale prices or tips - it's the customers that pay.

[bUU]

While it make be interesting to watch or participate in, chatting about how the hospitality industry pays its people (set wages versus gratuities) is an exercise in futility. The gratuities approach is a long-standing approach in the United States, and is every bit as any other approach, used by other industries in the United States, or used by the hospitality industry in other countries. As a reflection of our society norms, it cannot be changed by anything other than a whole change in the American psyche. Small pressures wouldn't have any impact. Rather, the vast majority of American people must come to wholeheartedly (not casually) object to the concept that the majority of compensation are covered by gratuities, and/or federal law must be changed to make the practice illegal. No mainstream consumer-facing company, unless it is a dominant provider, can change their mind about this unilaterally, without being subjected to vigorous punishment on the part of the American consumer, in general, who is so wholly fixated on the base price for things, and therefore any supplier that makes such a move is taking an unforgivable and perhaps actionable risk with shareholder's resources by attempting such a change.

 

Note, I'm not saying anything (right now) about whether the system is good or bad, but just that it is, and that it won't change unless, practically speaking, Heaven and Earth changes.

[pipedreams62]

I don't understand the problem here. Personally, I enjoy tipping. It makes me feel good to brighten someone's day.

 

Why should it matter to anyone how I choose to tip?

 

To each his/her own.

 

I'll get flamed for this, but it's too easy to use these declarations in order to justify being a cheapskate.

 

Furthermore, I've never "offended" anyone by slipping them cash, a word of thanks and a genuine smile. To think otherwise is delusional.

[NoNoNanette]

 

Wowie Zowie, baby!

 

In the words of Sally Fields:

 

"YOU LIKE ME!!!! YOU REALLY, REALLY, LIKE ME!!!!!!" ;)

 

*blowing kisses to pipedreams62* :)