Hand Sanitizers Gone?

[Reijo]

I hate to hear that sanitizers are not available in Windjammer and the Dining Room as it used to be. You had trouble getting past them people with the sanitizer. I felt pretty good about the chances of viruses being less.

 

The main thing that a person should do is WASH YOUR HANDS. I will make sure that I take along my own sanitizer.

[MakinGold]

You might be able to tell from my earlier posts on the topic that I don't think hand sanitizers are that important, but . . . I will clarify that those who say hand sanitizers do not work on viruses are incorrect. They are alcohol-based sterilizing agents that are effective on both bacteria and viruses. The problem with relying on them is that they do not "clean" your hands. You need good old soap and water to get your hands clean. If your hands are not already clean, the hand sanitizers are not very effective at killing the surface germs.

[sicsinohio]

The bottom line on this is that the sanitizers are not cost effective when it comes to preventing illness. Yes, the wipes/dispensers do reduce the number of viable germs on one's hands, but not completely or effectively enough to reduce the infection rate to the point where the cruise line can justify the costs of providing them. This is especially true where soap and water are available, far more effective and much less expensive to provide. As another poster mentioned, harmful bacteria and viruses are everywhere and can't be easily avoided. Cruisers need to take charge of their own health by frequently washing their hands, keeping their hands out of their mouths and away from their faces, and doing whatever they can to have a healthy immune system before they travel...things like maintaining good nutrition and getting enough sleep. A strong immune system will protect you from illness better than anything else.

[grandsix]

I have done extensive research on germs. I worked as a complaince specialist for a few years and one thing we concentrated on was preventing cross contamination of germs.

 

To those of you who are scared to go into bathrooms, for the most part they are cleaner than your office! Why? Because bathrooms get cleaned on a regular basis. How many people actually sanitize their keyboards, telephones, copiers, etc. If you dont believe me, stop what you are doing right now and turn your keyboard upside down and tap it gently on the desk to see what falls out.

 

Studies show that there are more germs on a steering wheel than on the average toilet seat. Also, you should put the toilet seat down before flushing because during the flush, bacteria can become airborne and contamiate your toothbrush.

 

Hand santizers do work, but tehy only offer temporary protection until you can wash your hadns with hot soapy water for 30 seconds. I always have santizier available to use but never consider my hands clean until wash them. Studies also show that plain soap like Ivory or Dove is just as effective as anti-bacterial soaps.

 

When it comes to germs, I would be more afraid to set on a chair in the stateroom or the comforter that I would the toilet.

 

I think you just need to practice caution and use good judgment. Dont put your hands in your mouth., pick your nose, etc. Keep your hands clean and wash them regularly.

 

I dont want to rant, but "germ-o-phobes" kill me. Germs are everywhere... (even on the lemon slices that were mentioned last week). I have hand sanitizers in my car, I teach my kids to wash their hands, use airborne when traveling. I even have UV sterilizers on my heat pumps. But, I am not

 

 

 

THE BATHROOMS MAY BE CLEAN, BUT HAVE YOU NOTICED THE LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO DO NOT WAS THEIR HANDS AFTER USING THE TOILET. tHIS IS WHAT FRIGHTENS US....................

[Ephraim]

You might be able to tell from my earlier posts on the topic that I don't think hand sanitizers are that important, but . . . I will clarify that those who say hand sanitizers do not work on viruses are incorrect. They are alcohol-based sterilizing agents that are effective on both bacteria and viruses. The problem with relying on them is that they do not "clean" your hands. You need good old soap and water to get your hands clean. If your hands are not already clean, the hand sanitizers are not very effective at killing the surface germs.

 

Well, the CDC doesn't agree, nor do the manufacturers. They do cut down on SOME viruses, but basically they all admit that they are ineffective on noro-virus. If you were worried about staph in your food, then it's effective. But not on noro-virus which is resistant. The CDC does not recommend their use OTHER than as an added protection after washing your hands, not as a replacement.

[MakinGold]

Well, the CDC doesn't agree, nor do the manufacturers. They do cut down on SOME viruses, but basically they all admit that they are ineffective on noro-virus. If you were worried about staph in your food, then it's effective. But not on noro-virus which is resistant. The CDC does not recommend their use OTHER than as an added protection after washing your hands, not as a replacement.

 

Nope. That's not what the report I read on the CDC website said. I don't have time to look it up right now, but it said that alcohol-based hand rubs were effective against a number of viruses, including norovirus. They still say handwashing is best, but the alcohol gels are good in a pinch, when soap and water is not readily available.

[Eileen2]

I have done extensive research on germs. I worked as a complaince specialist for a few years and one thing we concentrated on was preventing cross contamination of germs.

 

To those of you who are scared to go into bathrooms, for the most part they are cleaner than your office! Why? Because bathrooms get cleaned on a regular basis. How many people actually sanitize their keyboards, telephones, copiers, etc. If you dont believe me, stop what you are doing right now and turn your keyboard upside down and tap it gently on the desk to see what falls out.

 

Studies show that there are more germs on a steering wheel than on the average toilet seat. Also, you should put the toilet seat down before flushing because during the flush, bacteria can become airborne and contamiate your toothbrush.

 

Hand santizers do work, but tehy only offer temporary protection until you can wash your hadns with hot soapy water for 30 seconds. I always have santizier available to use but never consider my hands clean until wash them. Studies also show that plain soap like Ivory or Dove is just as effective as anti-bacterial soaps.

 

When it comes to germs, I would be more afraid to set on a chair in the stateroom or the comforter that I would the toilet.

 

I think you just need to practice caution and use good judgment. Dont put your hands in your mouth., pick your nose, etc. Keep your hands clean and wash them regularly.

 

I dont want to rant, but "germ-o-phobes" kill me. Germs are everywhere... (even on the lemon slices that were mentioned last week). I have hand sanitizers in my car, I teach my kids to wash their hands, use airborne when traveling. I even have UV sterilizers on my heat pumps. But, I am not

 

 

 

THE BATHROOMS MAY BE CLEAN, BUT HAVE YOU NOTICED THE LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO DO NOT WAS THEIR HANDS AFTER USING THE TOILET. tHIS IS WHAT FRIGHTENS US....................

 

Yes and these are the folk who use the tongs and paw through rolls etc:(

[WhiteSoxFan]

From the American Society for Microbiology:

 

In this study, a known amount of norovirus was placed on the fingers of volunteers and allowed to dry. The investigators tested one common liquid antibacterial soap and one popular brand of an alcohol-based hand sanitizer to see how effective they were at removing the virus from the fingers compared to rinsing with water only. They found that washing the fingers with plain water gave the greatest level of norovirus reduction, with an average of about 96% removal. Washing the fingers with an antibacterial liquid soap gave an average of about 88% removal. The alcohol-based sanitizer was not effective at removing the virus from the volunteers’ fingers and only resulted in an average removal of 46%.

 

http://www.asm.org/Media/index.asp?bid=42835

[ala-kat]

I have this dream that one day I'll find a public washroom were I don't have to touch anything but a paper towel.

 

I have realized your dream, and then some. In an airport (don't remember which one), the toilet had some kind of covering over the seat, that once used, was auto moved for the next 'customer'. Flushed on its own when I was done. Water, soap and towels were also auto. Been several years, and I'm still impressed (as much as one can be) with this bathroom. Only thing I could see not addressed was getting into the stall and locking the door. Exit from the room was made using my shoulder to push the door out.

[Rancher Dave]

Actually, there are now well documented studies that show that even when you have 90-100% compliance with hand gel use, it does not decrease rates of infection in the hospital setting. Bottom line is that the best defense is washing hands with soap and water.

 

Jen

 

Funny to see that survey cited... When I tood DD to Urgent Care here in Houston MD never once washed his hands that I could see. Compare to docs who wash in the patient exam room so as to be seen each time they wash.

 

I will not name UCC but will say I would be hard pressed to use it again as I was so not impressed with it. I'd have gotten quicker service at TCH for DD and probably cleaner MD hands.

[Pearland Cruisers]

Just off the Voyager and Capt Gerry stated that the hand sanitizer doesn't fight viral, so they don't use it any longer. If there is a Noro outbreak, they get out the new wipes, which are effective against virus.

[luvscruising2007]

When we were on Radiance last June, there were no hand sanitizers. On Brilliance in January, no hand sanitizers. We were given wipes before boarding at one of the ports; I believe it was Panama. I didnot hear of any illness aboard either ship. I personally agree with what whitesoxfan posted. I do not routinely use hand sanitizers; I don't really like them. I have not been sick in years. I also believe that exposure to germs helps build your immune system, and that killing all these germs causes people to get sick more often because their immune systems can't fight the germs.

[Tex_Jen]

Funny to see that survey cited... When I tood DD to Urgent Care here in Houston MD never once washed his hands that I could see. Compare to docs who wash in the patient exam room so as to be seen each time they wash.

 

I will not name UCC but will say I would be hard pressed to use it again as I was so not impressed with it. I'd have gotten quicker service at TCH for DD and probably cleaner MD hands.

 

I agree with you. Health care providers should wash their hands in the presence of their patients. I'd be nervous if I didn't see some good handwashing happen in front of me when at the doctor's.

 

Jen

[Lorey2007]

Sailed on Liberty 2-9 to 2-16 they were handing out wipes at the entrance to all the eating areas, Windjammer, dining rooms, Sorentos etc. also the eating areas on Labadee.

[mad-dog74]

I admit, it is nasty when you see people walk out of the restroom w/o washing. I saw a fast food employee once (with gloves on) go into a restroom with a cloth. I assumed she was cleaning. She then came out and wiped off tables. Then, I saw a customer come up she took his order and went to the fry machine and got his fries. He probably thought "how nice, she's wearing gloves."

 

I did tell the manager about it.... not sure if she cared or not.

 

Among the nastiest was when I saw a elderly man in the restroom. He blew his nose on his hanky and then proceeded to use the bathroom. He did wash his hands. However, it had one of those air dryers. He loudly said, "I hate those d*#m things!" He pulled out his hanky and wiped his hands and then used the hanky to open the door so his "clean" hands did not have to touch the door. I chased him down to let him know how gross he was.

 

There needs to be some incentives for people to wash their hands. Something like, No beer until you wash your hands for 30 seconds with hot soapy water.

[birdylady]

I dont want to rant, but "germ-o-phobes" kill me. Germs are everywhere... (even on the lemon slices that were mentioned last week). I have hand sanitizers in my car, I teach my kids to wash their hands, use airborne when traveling. I even have UV sterilizers on my heat pumps. But, I am not afraid of door knobs and carry napkins around with me.

 

Question - When using Airborne it states to take every couple hours. Do you use it when you start your trip, when you start feeling ill or during your whole trip?

 

Erika

[Reijo]

Nope. That's not what the report I read on the CDC website said. I don't have time to look it up right now, but it said that alcohol-based hand rubs were effective against a number of viruses, including norovirus. They still say handwashing is best, but the alcohol gels are good in a pinch, when soap and water is not readily available.

I just read a CDC report on this and you're right...handwashing is best but the alcohol based gels are BETTER THAN NOTHING. They tested several different things but just like your Mama and Daddy taught you, good old soap and water is best.

[mad-dog74]

Birdlady: I usually pop an airborne about an hour before a flight, etc. as a precaution.

 

But at home, i start gulping it when I *very first* experience cold symptoms. I swear it works! I have told 3-4 colds goodbye when the rest of my family had them.

[broberts]

From the American Society for Microbiology:

 

In this study, a known amount of norovirus was placed on the fingers of volunteers and allowed to dry. The investigators tested one common liquid antibacterial soap and one popular brand of an alcohol-based hand sanitizer to see how effective they were at removing the virus from the fingers compared to rinsing with water only. They found that washing the fingers with plain water gave the greatest level of norovirus reduction, with an average of about 96% removal. Washing the fingers with an antibacterial liquid soap gave an average of about 88% removal. The alcohol-based sanitizer was not effective at removing the virus from the volunteers’ fingers and only resulted in an average removal of 46%.

 

http://www.asm.org/Media/index.asp?bid=42835

 

Just what was meant by "plain water". If they meant city tap water there is nothing "plain" about it. Typically this type of water has been purified and a small amount of fluoride and possibly other chemicals have been introduced. Had the study said "distilled water" I might have given the results more credence.

[buckanear]

I'm just adding my 10 minutes of research here...

Norovirus is what is known as a non-lipophilic virus, meaning it doesn't have an envelope around it. Only lipophilic, or virus' that contain this envelope, are susceptible to alcohol. It requires a higher strength of alcohol to inactivate nonlipophilic virus' than what is commercially available at the time for hand santizer. My source can be found here

 

Examples of lipophilic virus' that are susceptible to alcohol include HSV, HIV, RSV and Hepatitis B & C.

 

The CDC says, "In addition, many alcohol-based hand antiseptics have very poor activity against bactreial spores, protozoan cysts and certain non-enveloped viruses, such as noroviruses." You can find my cdc.gov source here.

 

Time is also a factor in alcohol sanitization. 10-15 seconds of rubbing is what I've consistently found.

[Ephraim]

I just read a CDC report on this and you're right...handwashing is best but the alcohol based gels are BETTER THAN NOTHING. They tested several different things but just like your Mama and Daddy taught you, good old soap and water is best.

 

Well, anything is better than more triclosan in the environment. The CBC's Marketplace did a study and found that not only is triclosan untested for longer term human usage, it also seems to be leeching into our water systems, with no real testing.

[English Teacher]

I was on Explorer on the February 3 sailing, and as was said before, we started seeing the wipes after our first port-of-call, St. Maarten. We were part of a CC group of about 200 people, and I would say that at least two thirds of our group got sick; almost everyone on the ship was sick with either a horrible cold, strep throat (documented upon return home), or a stomach bug (noro?). We were given Purel wipes at every meal (except our Portofino meal, where the wipes were discreetly on the counter but not offered) and before getting on the ship at every port. I don't care whether RCL reports to the CDC or not: we called it "the Plague ship" and felt doomed by the coughing, wheezing, sneezing legions around us. Ick.

But kudos to RCL for making the attempt to stop the spread of whatever it was. . .

Lou-Ann

[goouchjac]

They had them on the Mariner when we were on in Jan.....:)

[jaxon41]

Here are the CDC guidelines. They recommend using hand sanitizers only when soap and water are not available.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/Handwashing/HandwashingTips.htm

 

Off subject -- Making Gold, what has happened to the mega thread? I got an email there was a post, and then I got a Vbulletin, saying it had been removed. It is gone from my subscribed list, and it is gone from my postings list, and it is gone from where it once could be found on a search. I actually had a decent news article to discuss. What the heck is up, and do you know how to contact the mods to ask?

[MakinGold]

Off subject -- Making Gold, what has happened to the mega thread? I got an email there was a post, and then I got a Vbulletin, saying it had been removed. It is gone from my subscribed list, and it is gone from my postings list, and it is gone from where it once could be found on a search. I actually had a decent news article to discuss. What the heck is up, and do you know how to contact the mods to ask?

 

You can try e-mailing community@cruisecritic.com and ask about it there. I hope the folks who liked to chime in just to harass you for having an interest in the subject didn't manage to get the thread deleted. It's a legitimate topic that some are interested in.