If You Don't Like Being Violated Don't Book A Cruise To Jamaica

[sixgun8]

This is truly a thread that NEEDS to simply disappear. Granted one person's opinion, or a multitude as it may appear, is important. This thread has gone far from the initial rant about poor treatment to a simple matter of rudeness towards each other.

 

Tell ya what. It was my first time in jamaica and I didn't have anything other than the pushy salespeople in the shops that gave me any bad feelings. Next time we go and there will be a next time, we will book an excursion that takes us to the countryside of jamaica. We cheated ourselves this time and will make better of it the next time. If I get groped going through the customs check, I just consider it part of the process.

[DqALEX]

This is truly a thread that NEEDS to simply disappear. Granted one person's opinion, or a multitude as it may appear, is important. This thread has gone far from the initial rant about poor treatment to a simple matter of rudeness towards each other.

 

Tell ya what. It was my first time in jamaica and I didn't have anything other than the pushy salespeople in the shops that gave me any bad feelings. Next time we go and there will be a next time, we will book an excursion that takes us to the countryside of jamaica. We cheated ourselves this time and will make better of it the next time. If I get groped going through the customs check, I just consider it part of the process.

If I were you I would watch VH1 behind the Music on Bob Marley. They show the real countryside of Jamaica. . A good friend of mine took a carriage ride to see the countryside. after a 1/2 hour he said people were yelling at him and his wife and shaking there fist at him. He told the driver to turn around. I'm sure you will have a trip to remember. Best of luck to you on your trip, or adventure

[Hedocple]

 

Again, I'm not trying to justify any improper actions. I just think that bashing an entire nation and her people based on a few hours in port is wrong.

 

Well said! We just returned from our 10th weeklong vacation to JA and had another fabulous time. In addition to our cruise stop in Ocho Rios last June.

[Joedog]

Maybe it is time to put this thread to rest. There probably isn’t anything else to be gained by debating this anymore. Everyone seems to be pretty entrenched in their positions so………I suggest we end with a “what did we learn from this thread” post. Here goes……from this thread we learned:

If you leave the ship in Montego Bay you should expect to be subjected to a search in the terminal when you return.

During your search the “frisker” may fondle your penis, testicles, junk, package, wedding utensil and/or whatever you call that thing in your pants.

You have no rights in foreign countries and if you complain about being treated like a criminal you are a whiner and should just get over it.

If you tell anyone the name of the country where you were treated like a criminal and that person has been there and was not treated like a criminal you are “bashing” the country and anything you say should be summarily dismissed as whining.

If you don’t like being “fondled” when you are being searched like a criminal, you just don’t understand the local customs and are a spoiled American.

Authorities in Montego Bay have a right to search you any way they want because there is a drug problem there, people are poor and Americans are too coddled in the United States.

Authorities in Montego Bay have a right to search you any way they want because searching cruise ship passengers is the most effective way to combat drug abuse in Jamaica, the United States and more importantly, onboard Carnival ships.

Searching a thousand cruise ship passengers on the off chance that you might find one with a small amount of pot on them is worth it because if that pot makes it on board the ship, someone might smoke it, get the munchies, and totally eat all the food in the buffet.

Authorities in Montego Bay have a right to search you any way they want because there are plenty of bad neighborhoods in the United States.

Authorities in Montego Bay have a right to search you any way they want because Katrina victims that relocated to Houston are either criminals or victims of Houston criminals.

Authorities in Montego Bay have a right to search you any way they want because people get searched at airports all the time.

I am sure there are a few more things that I learned that I have missed but I think I got the most important ones.

[MiamiSky66]

JOEDOG,

 

You said it the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lovesublime]

Rotflmao!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jaymepops]

OMG!!! LOL!! Great way to end it JOE!!!! Thanks!!

[nolaAlive]

You know what. I don't want to be rude to you. But you were the one who was ranting. Not me. And also, it is a FACT that crime (especially murder) after the Katrina evacuees arrived has increased. If you've fooled yourself into believing it's not true, then let me ask you this: why did FEMA give the Houston police dept. 7 million dollars to fund and recruit more officers for a gang task force. I never said all Katrina victims are criminals. However, we did end up getting all the gangs that should have been locked up in NOLA in the first place.

 

It's also a salient fact (you can look it up) that 70% of the "victims" here are STILL umemployeed. If you can't get a job in Houston then it's because you either don't want one or you're brain dead.

 

Sorry this has went off topic:(

 

It's a fact that crime is up all over post-Katrina in places not touched by Katrina or the evacuees.

 

It's also a fact that criminals from all over the south preyed on what was left of New Orleans just after Katrina.

 

Many evacuees from several states, are still waiting for promised funds, as are many Texans after Rita. How long ago was Rita?

 

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/19/hurricane.rita.relief/index.html

[Mikel1733]

It's a fact that crime is up all over post-Katrina in places not touched by Katrina or the evacuees.

 

It's also a fact that criminals from all over the south preyed on what was left of New Orleans just after Katrina.

 

Many evacuees from several states, are still waiting for promised funds, as are many Texans after Rita. How long ago was Rita?

 

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/19/hurricane.rita.relief/index.html

 

I am still puzzled as to what any of this has to do with corrupt Jamaican authorities frisking unsuspecting cruise passengers so as to impose bogus fines and fee's thereby lining their pockets. Maybe in the floatway lounge you could start a thread on how NOLA has been screwed by the USA. Thanks for the continual thread drift.

[ruskatab]

I am still puzzled as to what any of this has to do with corrupt Jamaican authorities frisking unsuspecting cruise passengers so as to impose bogus fines and fee's thereby lining their pockets. Maybe in the floatway lounge you could start a thread on how NOLA has been screwed by the USA. Thanks for the continual thread drift.

 

 

EXACTLY!!!!!

[nolaAlive]

I am still puzzled as to what any of this has to do with corrupt Jamaican authorities frisking unsuspecting cruise passengers so as to impose bogus fines and fee's thereby lining their pockets. Maybe in the floatway lounge you could start a thread on how NOLA has been screwed by the USA. Thanks for the continual thread drift.

 

I'm just replying to what others post. Perhaps you should try asking them? :confused:

 

Do you think US authorities are without corruption? Who are we to throw stones at other, less affluent countries, when we can't even fix our own house?

[lovesublime]

I am still puzzled as to what any of this has to do with corrupt Jamaican authorities frisking unsuspecting cruise passengers so as to impose bogus fines and fee's thereby lining their pockets. Maybe in the floatway lounge you could start a thread on how NOLA has been screwed by the USA. Thanks for the continual thread drift.

 

Well, obviously you didn't read the entire thread. I posted statistics about crime in Jamaica. Including the murder rate. I tried to put it in perspective by comparing Jamaica and Houston. Jamaica-a little over 2 million people with 1200-1700 murders a year. Houston 6 million people-300-400 murders a year. I mentioned that the rate has gone up since Katrina. It was in keeping with the topic of drugs and crime in Jamaica.

[nolaAlive]

Well, obviously you didn't read the entire thread. I posted statistics about crime in Jamaica. Including the murder rate. I tried to put it in perspective by comparing Jamaica and Houston. Jamaica-a little over 2 million people with 1200-1700 murders a year. Houston 6 million people-300-400 murders a year. I mentioned that the rate has gone up since Katrina. It was in keeping with the topic of drugs and crime in Jamaica.

 

I lived in Houston for a while. Houston had drugs and crime and gangs and murder long before Katrina. The reference to Katrina was not necessary.

 

I don't really think any comparison between an affluent, sprawling and growing metropolis and an impoverished, struggling nation is valid. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember anyone kidnapping citizens of Houston to later be sold as slaves? Is there anything historical that Houston and Jamaica have in common?

 

Now if you want to compare Jamaica and Haiti, I would have less, if any, objection.

 

On another note, for those who don't know, Jamaica held elections last year albeit postponed due to a hurricane. Before being so quick to judge, why not let the new government have a chance. Change doesn't happen overnight.

 

Others have posted in this thread of Jamaican cruisers being busted for smuggling drugs. I believe that if a few cruisers weren't stupid enough to try to smuggle drugs, the groping would have never started. Many people inconvenienced for the stupid actions of a few.

 

Some posters prefer to blame the country of Jamaica for the groping and/or extortion by a few.

 

Which came first? The stupid actions of a few or the groping and extortion by a few? Hmmmmm.

[cruiseapril]

We've been to Montego Bay. Not a place we wish to return to.

 

We've been to Haiti twice-and have traveled throughout the Caribbean area with no other problems. That is just our experience.

 

There is no excuse, IMO, for rude, aggressive behavior toward tourists or any other people- anywhere. The Ministry of Tourism, in Jamaica, must be aware of the negative PR these aggressive people are causing.

 

While the rude Jamaicans are in the minority, too many bad incidents are being reported by travelers. We feel Montego Bay should be skipped as a cruise port until the atmosphere improves.

[Snorkel2Much]

...I don't really think any comparison between an affluent, sprawling and growing metropolis and an impoverished, struggling nation is valid. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember anyone kidnapping citizens of Houston to later be sold as slaves? Is there anything historical that Houston and Jamaica have in common?

 

Now if you want to compare Jamaica and Haiti, I would have less, if any, objection......

The point many have tried to make, and that continues to whiz by you at remarkable speed (even though you've reinforced the point in your post above) is that if enough Jamaicans have pent up hostility towards North Americans (historically justified or not), perhaps it isn't the best destination for John & Jane from Des Moines on their first cruise. I've seen stats that show that more than half of all Carnival cruisers are first timers. I'd imagine that for many of them, it's also their first visit to a non first world nation. Yikes.

 

If you step back from the specifics for a minute, you may realize that cruising is a "hospitality" industry. There are many Caribbean ports that can't offer the variety of things Jamaica can, but they do offer hospitality. IMO when the Jamaican's in the cruise port areas finally collectively "get" that the way the people around Cozumel get it, they'll become a top cruise destination.

[Kurbanfan]

The point many have tried to make, and that continues to whiz by you at remarkable speed (even though you've reinforced the point in your post above) is that if enough Jamaicans have pent up hostility towards North Americans (historically justified or not), perhaps it isn't the best destination for John & Jane from Des Moines on their first cruise. I've seen stats that show that more than half of all Carnival cruisers are first timers. I'd imagine that for many of them, it's also their first visit to a non first world nation. Yikes.

 

If you step back from the specifics for a minute, you may realize that cruising is a "hospitality" industry. There are many Caribbean ports that can't offer the variety of things Jamaica can, but they do offer hospitality. IMO when the Jamaican's in the cruise port areas finally collectively "get" that the way the people around Cozumel get it, they'll become a top cruise destination.

 

 

EXACTLY!

[nolaAlive]

Cozumel is hardly a foreign country - it is closer to the 51st state. One of the reasons people like it is that there are so many Americans there - people just like them.

 

Yes, many countries and islands have sold out for the tourist dollar and tolerate tourist behavior that would otherwise not be acceptable.

 

It's all about the money.

 

About first time cruisers - they tend to stick with shore excursions sold through the cruise lines.

[Schlepporello]

Cozumel is hardly a foreign country - it is closer to the 51st state.

Hmm.

I thought it was a British colony. That's why they drive on the wrong side of the road there isn't it?:confused:

Yep, it's a foreign country, though maybe not as far away as the UK, it''s still a foreign country.

(no flames intended, just seeking clarification)

[Joedog]

Yes, many countries and islands have sold out for the tourist dollar and tolerate tourist behavior that would otherwise not be acceptable.

 

Such as what exactly, spending money? Maybe, just maybe, ALL the other countries that treat tourists decently in the Caribbean are just decent countries themselves and are only treating tourists as they would like to be treated. Heck of a concept. Treating people with respect and decency when they are visiting you is not selling out, it is good manners.

 

If any particular country does not get that, that does not make that country special in a good way, it makes them special in a bad way. At least when you apply basic human values.

 

Bottom line, MANY, MANY people feel that as a whole, the atmosphere in Jamaica is not "tourist friendly". Who's fault is that if not the Jamaicans?

 

You can spout crap all day long about unreasonable expectation for being treated decently in "foreign countries" but the fact remains that we are not having this discussion on other Caribbean countries Port of Call threads. Again, who's fault is that?

[Kurbanfan]

Cozumel is hardly a foreign country -

 

 

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Gosap]

Hmm.

I thought it was a British colony. That's why they drive on the wrong side of the road there isn't it?:confused:

Yep, it's a foreign country, though maybe not as far away as the UK, it''s still a foreign country.

(no flames intended, just seeking clarification)

 

Cozumel is an island off the coast of the Mexican mainland. Cozumel falls under the jurisdiction of the Mexican state of Quintana Roo. When you go to Cozumel, you are in Mexico. It is not a British colony.

[Schlepporello]

Cozumel is an island off the coast of the Mexican mainland. Cozumel falls under the jurisdiction of the Mexican state of Quintana Roo. When you go to Cozumel, you are in Mexico. It is not a British colony.

DANG!

My bad. I thought we were still discussing Mo Bay.

How did the thread get turned toards Cozumel?

 

Cozumel is most certainly a foreign country. Equating it with a 51st state is like saying all of Mexico is like a 51st state.

[nrdsb4]

Such as what exactly, spending money? Maybe, just maybe, ALL the other countries that treat tourists decently in the Caribbean are just decent countries themselves and are only treating tourists as they would like to be treated. Heck of a concept. Treating people with respect and decency when they are visiting you is not selling out, it is good manners.

 

If any particular country does not get that, that does not make that country special in a good way, it makes them special in a bad way. At least when you apply basic human values.

 

Bottom line, MANY, MANY people feel that as a whole, the atmosphere in Jamaica is not "tourist friendly". Who's fault is that if not the Jamaicans?

 

You can spout crap all day long about unreasonable expectation for being treated decently in "foreign countries" but the fact remains that we are not having this discussion on other Caribbean countries Port of Call threads. Again, who's fault is that?

 

Well said. Though it should be noted that what constitutes "good manners" is often open to interpretation. In some countries, for example, it is considered bad manners to make direct eye contact. Here, we feel that someone who won't make eye contact when speaking to you is acting shifty and suspicious. It wouldn't be construed as good manners. But if we go travel to a country where direct eye contact is considered rude, that's how they will view us. Also, I went to school with an exchange student whose nationality escapes me for the moment. I gave her the "okay" sign once and she blushed beet red and told me in her country I had just made a very obscene gesture. It eventually became a big joke and everywhere she went kids would give her the "okay." She was a very good sport about it and knew it was all in fun.

 

Safe to say that I cannot think of a single country where it would be considered okay to grab someone's genitals sans permission.;)

[nolaAlive]

Cozumel is most certainly a foreign country. Equating it with a 51st state is like saying all of Mexico is like a 51st state.

 

Not even close. Most of Mexico is not wall to wall Americans.

 

Amazing how many Americans think locals should treat them better than they treat themselves. How much better they are than locals.

 

In Jamaica, a disproportionate amount of resources are spent on making and keeping the tourists happy and safe at the expense of locals.

 

Poor people know when others look upon them with disgust and treat them like dirt. Being poor is not a crime. And then the same ones turn around and expect to be treated like royalty. Good luck! Yessum. Yessir.

[lovesublime]

I lived in Houston for a while. Houston had drugs and crime and gangs and murder long before Katrina. The reference to Katrina was not necessary.

 

I don't really think any comparison between an affluent, sprawling and growing metropolis and an impoverished, struggling nation is valid. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember anyone kidnapping citizens of Houston to later be sold as slaves? Is there anything historical that Houston and Jamaica have in common?

 

Now if you want to compare Jamaica and Haiti, I would have less, if any, objection.

 

On another note, for those who don't know, Jamaica held elections last year albeit postponed due to a hurricane. Before being so quick to judge, why not let the new government have a chance. Change doesn't happen overnight.

 

Others have posted in this thread of Jamaican cruisers being busted for smuggling drugs. I believe that if a few cruisers weren't stupid enough to try to smuggle drugs, the groping would have never started. Many people inconvenienced for the stupid actions of a few.

 

Some posters prefer to blame the country of Jamaica for the groping and/or extortion by a few.

 

Which came first? The stupid actions of a few or the groping and extortion by a few? Hmmmmm.

 

Hey, no one said Houston didn't have drugs and crime befoe Katrina. Ridiculous! I think everyone knows that those evacuees who were bussed into the Astrodome weren't exactly NOLA's finest either. In fact, the riff raff was so bad that even Louisiana didn't want them. My son was attending Louisiana Tech University in Ruston at the time of Katrina. The school had one high rise dorm building that was vacant. It was about to be demolished, but they decided to open the dorms up to the evacuees-trying to do a good deed. It lasted about 3 weeks. Drugs, fighting, vandalism, harrassment of students. My son was approached at least 5 times by evacuees asking for money and rides. He was called names when he refused. It got to be that students couldn't even safely walk around campus. The campus police got fed up because they were pretty much permanantly stationed at Caruthers Hall. The university had no choice but to kick them out. Also, a friend of my Mom's who was a retired high school teacher was killed by 3 displaced 'victims'. She hired them out of sympathy to do small jobs around her house. They thanked her by killing her, robbing her and taking off in her car.

 

As far as the riff raff here in Houston-it was very well documented and known that many, many 'victims' were using their $2000 emergency Red Cross debit cards to buy Louis Vuitton handbags, breast implants and to pay their tabs at local strip clubs.

 

It's been over three years since Katrina, but yet we still have nearly 200,000 evacuees here, most of whom don't work. But you can bet they are still receiving 'services'. Most are still receiving $990 vouchers for housing each month among other things. These are people who were living in public housing in NOLA.

 

You made a big deal of Katrina, not me. I only mentioned it in passing. And yeah, what's wrong with comparing crime in Jamiaca to Houston. I guess it only goes to show how uncivilized the island actually is. And why would Jamaican authorities care what a cruise ship pax has tucked into his underwear? Especially if he's leaving the island. Jamaica doesn't need cruise ship pax to prop up it's drug business. It's doing fine on it's own.