Allergic reaction - $250 Infirmary bill

[VentureMan_2000]

I just can't help but to chime in here...

 

 

1st, a medical bill of $250 id reasonable.

 

2nd, a person as alergic as the OP should know better than to assume when it comes to food and allergies.

 

3rd, just the OP suggesting that the $250 be recended screams out that the OP is not taking any responsibility for the issue.

 

I really resent folks who take the "It's someone elses fault for everything" attitude.

 

Sorry... bitching about a $250 bill is just whining. Especially since it appears it's the fault of the OP for not having any due-dilligence.

 

Just Anoher lesson learned for the folks who are either gambling they won't need travel insurance... or are just plain too cheap to purchase it.

[TCF]

There is something about this that is concerning!

I suspect that there was nothing in the recipe that was seafood related...which is why the OP was not provided with a list of ingredients....because that in turn would have lead straight to cross-contamination of the OP's dish in the kitchen....which would mean an 'unclean' kitchen...'unclean' in the sense that the fish/seafood that contaminated the OP's dish was left behind after the fish/seafood was prepped on the same surface as his/her dish....and that would mean that Carnival would be open to a legitimate law suit by the OP!

I also suspect that the Chef, Sous Chef, and Line Cook got a good dressing down by the Staff Captain right after the Dr. reported the incident! There is nothing so sobering for the kitchen crew than to understand that their failure to insure a clean kitchen came that close to killing someone!!!

This scenario is WAY MORE scary than the OP not being told what was in the dish before he/she ordered it! No matter what he/she did, the contamination could not have been avoided by him/her!

As for the bill...well that is a personal call! It wasn't the OP's fault or negligence...so I think it is fair to ask for the money back just on priciple!

As for the medical horror stories from others on this thread...it is good for us Canadians to hear them! It kind of makes us think twice when we 'bitch' about the high taxes we pay....it is those taxes that mean we never have to worry about whether we can 'afford' medical treatment! We are indeed fortunate! If we didn't have such good, all inclusive healthy care I suspect my wife and I would not have the money to cruise! Hell...we wouldn't even own our own home anymore!!

[LegalCat]

I think a lot depends on the steps the op took...

 

Some people who have food allergies etc take a lot of steps... I guess depending on the severity of the situation.. you can contact the coordinator for the ship way ahead of time and arrange for certain food, make certain details.. you can even have a meeting with someone once on the ship regarding the meals etc... At a minimum, you should ask lots of questions and explain clearly to your server what your problem is and make it really clear that you would be really sick if seafood was in your meal so they know its simply not that you just dont like seafood...

 

If you know that you have this allergy and simply assume that since the description doesnt say it has seafood that there is no problem.. thats a risk you are taking and you have to deal with the consequences.. I never assume.. especially when i'm eating something 'fancy' and I dont know for sure whats in it lol which was a big problem at the recent food and wine festival we went too.. half the tables had food i couldnt even pronounce...

 

I dont think it hurts to ask them NICELY to reduce or cancel the charge... most hospitals or doctors offices will do it simply if you ask especially if insurance isnt picking up the tab... I wouldnt make a huge issue out of it and start jumping up and down and yelling at them though.. if you DID make your situation known and they still served it too you, thats obviously a bigger issue... if you didnt, well, maybe you should in the future to try to avoid the problem.. also, I dont recall if you said, but maybe you should get an epi pen to carry with you if your so allergic,..

[jandjfun]

I don't understand WHY you would leave the ship without the ingredient list. If you don't want to pay the bill, then you should have followed through and taken the initiative to get the ingredients list yourself. I say since you didn't care enough then, you shouldn't care enough now. Pay the bill. Sorry.

[VentureMan_2000]

 

 

As for the bill...well that is a personal call! It wasn't the OP's fault or negligence...so I think it is fair to ask for the money back just on priciple!

 

 

 

Principal my butt... it's never about principal... It's always about the money... always!

 

And to conclude it wasn't the OP's fault or negligence is just plain outrageous. This ship hads been inspected by the CDC and FDA with a score of 98 out of 100. For you to suggest the ship is not keeping meeting it's obligation of cleanliness is outrageous as well.

 

You certainly did not entertain in your argument that the OP is at fault at all... but instead feel into his less than cerebral thinking that it can only be someone else's fault and not his own for never owning up, up front, to his allergy issues before taking a byte of food.

 

Sorry... it gets old that folks always think it's someone else's fault... and never take ownership of themselves.

[jimbug]

Is it safe to assume that the infirmary charge was placed on your sail & sign card, and therefore already paid for? (i.e., it was charged to your onboard account secured by your credit card along with your other shipboard charges?)

 

If so, and if you used a major credit card for your onboard account, then you can try to dispute the charges with your credit card provider. Since I don't know enough about the whole situation (who is really at fault here), I can't presume the bank would or would not honor the dispute.

 

Disclaimer: This doesn't mean I agee with disputing the charge - just giving the OP another option. I will say that $250 for that much medical care is a bargain, and I would have gladly paid it since that care was very likely life-saving. (However, if it is a true financial hardship for you, that might be another story. An honest letter to Carnival might solve that problem.)

[pe4all]

If you write a letter to Carnival, state the positive first "due to the fast response of guests and staff..." etc. Then hit them with the fact that you feel there was some sort of shellfish in your food/cross contamination. Then ask about the $250 charge. I DO believe you should always be carrying some sort of medication with you at all times. Especially since you said you felt it coming on - you could have hit yourself with an epi-pen, or if you had a medic-alert i.d. on, someone could have gotten the epi-pen out and administered it for you. I am a Phys. Ed. teacher in an elementary school. Some of our students have such severe allergic reactions, that even breathing in something with peanuts in it (being in a 10 foot range) can send them into anaphalactic shock. (we actually have a "peanut free area" in our lunchroom) I have been trained on the use of epi-pens, in case the nurse is not available. They aren't hard to use , and anyone can figure them out in an emergency. (yes, I have had to use it once on a student) You should also have contacted Carnival before the sailing to let them know of your condition. Just asking the staff if there is any shellfish in a dish may not cover you...

[cruisecruisecruise1234567]

So my question is, would you try to get Carnival to drop the $250 bill? I am on the fence on this. I believe any shellfish should always be listed in a meal since this is a common allergy. On the other hand it is not 100% that is what caused the reaction, but even the doctor thought it was very likely. Anyway, comments welcome.

 

No,

Use your travel insurance,if you did not have any than thats not CCLs problem as you know you have a condition that my cause you to seek medical attention.Cross contamination is more than likely the issue but unless there is gross negligence,you have nothing,and proving that is also unrealistic.

[LegalCat]

I *think* if you use your epi pen you still need medical attention... To be honest I've been carrying mine for over 2 years and so far I've been very lucky and have not had to use it... also I live minutes from several great hospitals... My doctor always told me that the epi pen is like to be used while your waiting for medical assistance, like while someone is calling 911 or while your waiting for the paramedics... but that you still must go to the hospital once you have used it... he says the epi pen can cause its own complications.. its not like you use it and then go on your merry way... so even if she had an epi pen and used it, she may have still needed the medical attention anyway... I always wonder if I would use mine because I'm so close to the hospital I guess it would depend on the severity of the allergic reaction...

[toledo]

I just looked through all the "jerk" recipes on my favorite recipe web site. None of the 17 recipes listed contained any seafood ingredient, including the recipes for jerk seasoning itself. Three of the recipes mentioned peanuts. I don't know if this has been an issue for you in the past. Food allergies are scary and it sounds like the OP could not have expected this reaction to this dish.

[pe4all]

LegalCat -

I totally agree with you. Should always follow up any epi-pen use with medical attention - our school called 911 and mom. They arrived at same time - mom took child to Dr. for follow-up. Didn't want paramedics to take child to hospital. That is for a parent to decide - not the school. If mom hadn't shown, child would be on the way to hospital, even if seen/shown to have made full recovery. But, back to the issue at hand.... travel insurance is not that expensive, and probably should be bought within the 14 day window if you know you have "pre-existing medical conditions". If you buy it outside that 14 day window (from booking) your pre-existing medical issue probably won't be covered, anyway. Something to look into for the future. We never travel without travel ins. - luckily, have never had to use it, but dd has some medical issues - better safe than sorry. (Luckily, this was not an expensive "lesson" for you- could have cost thousands)

[Amlee]

I just looked through all the "jerk" recipes on my favorite recipe web site. None of the 17 recipes listed contained any seafood ingredient, including the recipes for jerk seasoning itself. Three of the recipes mentioned peanuts. I don't know if this has been an issue for you in the past. Food allergies are scary and it sounds like the OP could not have expected this reaction to this dish.

 

I also looked and couldn't find any with seafood in it.

 

I have to wonder if maybe the OP got a hold of something new he was allergic to. It could not even be seafood related. Many would be surprised as to how our bodies change from one allergy to another.

 

If this had happened to the OP at home, chances are he would have had to pay double or triple the amount charged by the ship.

[mfs2k]

$250.00 seems a reasonable price to pay to have your life saved.

 

Perhaps you have another allergy to some additive that you are unaware of that caused your reaction.

 

REstaurants (and cruise lines) have a responsibility nowadays to do what they can to pay attention to guest allergy concerns, but i think the responsibility belongs to the guest to look out for his/her own medical interests, unless it can be proven there is gross negligence.

 

You made a choice to go on a cruise and eat food from kitchens where food is prepared for thousands of people. Cooks use common grills, pots, pans, work surfaces, cutting boards, etc can easily be cross contaminated with food and additives and so forth that can cause allergic reactions in different people. There is no way a kitchen can take responsibility for everyone's potential reactions, unless, as i said before, there is gross negligence, which is unlikely provable. It is hard enough to maintain the level of cleanliness required on board, and I, for one, am grateful to see the improvements that have been made over the years in this area. It would be nice to see that level of sanitation concern in restaurants i eat in on a regular basis.

 

Be grateful you are ok, and you are here to write about your experiences. $250 is a small price to pay for that.

[LambKnuckles]

I agree with most here... I also carry an epi-pen for insect/bee stings. If it's life threatening, as this episode would suggest, then you should have one and you should tell the wait staff and Carnival in general before or when you complete your passenger info.

As for writing to the lines... definitely, write, but do it as a request for future passsengers... As a tip for writing the menu in the future... As a positive comment... Not to get your money back, unless you can prove negligent or intent on their end.

IMHO... And I'm so happy you're still with us to be able to write!!

[firefly333]

I also looked and couldn't find any with seafood in it.

 

I have to wonder if maybe the OP got a hold of something new he was allergic to. It could not even be seafood related. Many would be surprised as to how our bodies change from one allergy to another.

 

If this had happened to the OP at home, chances are he would have had to pay double or triple the amount charged by the ship.

 

Thats what I was thinking, someone that allergic could have undiscovered food allergies and eating new food could trigger them.

 

My friend travelling with us got insurance "just in case" she has a problem with her diabetes so she doesnt have to pay for medical help on the ship. Chances are she wouldnt use it one hopes, but thats why its our choice to buy insurance.

 

I too would urge the OP to talk to his doctor about an epi pen if that would save his life if this happened again.

[Tapi]

Just got off the Freedom this morning. I had an incident at dinner early in the week. Ordered Jerked Pork Loin for dinner. I have shellfish allergies and am always pretty careful to be sure the meal is not listed with any shellfish. Pork, beans, spices....it seemed fine. Took 3 bites and felt it coming on. Hoped it would pass...tingly throat, head spinning, light headed....ended up layed out on the dining room floor with that drifting away feeling. Luckily a Dentist was sitting 2 chairs from me and he got me out of my chair and layed out and got to work even before any of the ships's medical people arrived. BP dropped to 70/30. Got taken out of the dining room on a stretcher and went to the infirmary. EKG, several things via IV and I was there for around an hour. Scared the hell out of me, but it passed and I was ok. $250 bill from the infirmary, and doctor said he would get me the list of ingredients for my meal. He never did, and the pursers desk called twice each day after that asking if I was ok. I started getting the feeling they had found some unlisted shellfish in the sauc eor something like that. Never did get the ingredients.

 

So my question is, would you try to get Carnival to drop the $250 bill? I am on the fence on this. I believe any shellfish should always be listed in a meal since this is a common allergy. On the other hand it is not 100% that is what caused the reaction, but even the doctor thought it was very likely. Anyway, comments welcome.

 

 

You might be able to claim it if you have proof that you disclosed your allergies. With that said, when you made your reservation, did you fill out the Special Needs form which asks if you have any food reactions? This form should've been sent to you by your PVP/TA when the reservation was made and returned to Carnival's special needs desk. Filling out and signing this form would allow you to have a claim should there be any type of negligence. Without it you might find the cruise line telling you that they had no record of your allergies and that you never disclosed them, even if you verbally told your waiter...

 

As a side note, my wife is allergic to certain ingredients, and although they are not life threatening allergies, when we go out to eat we always ask the waiter if the food contains these items.

 

Almost every time the waiter will say "no, it doesn't". Then we will say "can you please check with the cook? It's a life threatening allergy". MANY times the waiter will come back and say "I checked, and yes, it does contain that".

 

What I'm trying to say is that for us allergy sufferers we need to stress these facts to the people serving us. Sometimes I feel embarrassed when my wife quizzes the waiter to death when we go to a restaurant, but it's the only way to ensure that we don't get hit with any "surprise" food reactions later on.

[cruiselover999]

There is something about this that is concerning!

 

I suspect that there was nothing in the recipe that was seafood related...which is why the OP was not provided with a list of ingredients....because that in turn would have lead straight to cross-contamination of the OP's dish in the kitchen....which would mean an 'unclean' kitchen...'unclean' in the sense that the fish/seafood that contaminated the OP's dish was left behind after the fish/seafood was prepped on the same surface as his/her dish....and that would mean that Carnival would be open to a legitimate law suit by the OP!

 

I also suspect that the Chef, Sous Chef, and Line Cook got a good dressing down by the Staff Captain right after the Dr. reported the incident! There is nothing so sobering for the kitchen crew than to understand that their failure to insure a clean kitchen came that close to killing someone!!!

 

This scenario is WAY MORE scary than the OP not being told what was in the dish before he/she ordered it! No matter what he/she did, the contamination could not have been avoided by him/her!

 

As for the bill...well that is a personal call! It wasn't the OP's fault or negligence...so I think it is fair to ask for the money back just on priciple!

 

As for the medical horror stories from others on this thread...it is good for us Canadians to hear them! It kind of makes us think twice when we 'bitch' about the high taxes we pay....it is those taxes that mean we never have to worry about whether we can 'afford' medical treatment! We are indeed fortunate! If we didn't have such good, all inclusive healthy care I suspect my wife and I would not have the money to cruise! Hell...we wouldn't even own our own home anymore!!

 

The true fact is that 80% of all Americans HAVE health insurance. Of the 20% who do not, many of them CHOOSE not to have insurance. I have also heard horror stories of the Canadian health system....they're broke....people have to wait years for elective surgery...Canadians are flocking to the U.S. to have surgery because of the long wait there. I doubt this is a precise portrayal of the true state of affairs in Canada, but this is what I've heard/read. We have always had insurance, even when unemployed...in fact, our daughter was born after my husband was laid off from his job. She had many difficulties in the first year, resulting in 13 hospital admissions and 3 surgeries. The total bill was well over 1 million dollars between the hospital, doctors, surgeries and home health equipment. Our out of pocket cost....zero. I'll take our American health care system over any other system in the world...any day!

[Amlee]

The true fact is that 80% of all Americans HAVE health insurance. Of the 20% who do not, many of them CHOOSE not to have insurance. I have also heard horror stories of the Canadian health system....they're broke....people have to wait years for elective surgery...Canadians are flocking to the U.S. to have surgery because of the long wait there. I doubt this is a precise portrayal of the true state of affairs in Canada, but this is what I've heard/read. We have always had insurance, even when unemployed...in fact, our daughter was born after my husband was laid off from his job. She had many difficulties in the first year, resulting in 13 hospital admissions and 3 surgeries. The total bill was well over 1 million dollars between the hospital, doctors, surgeries and home health equipment. Our out of pocket cost....zero. I'll take our American health care system over any other system in the world...any day!

 

I completely agree! My insurance cost me about $500 a month/$6000 a year. I never really had to use it up until about 4 years ago.

But in 2004 I had the first of 3 back surgeries. 2006 I had 2 surgeries with in 3 months of each other. In 2 years I had over a million dollars in hospital bills. But I was able to go to the doctor I wanted, I didn't have to wait for my surgery to be approved. When I was released from the hospital, I had a hospital bed and all that was needed for my recovery waiting for me at home. My cost was zip.

 

I may not ever need my insurance again. But I can tell you all, that those checks are not as painful to write as they use to be.

[cruiselover999]

I completely agree! My insurance cost me about $500 a month/$6000 a year. I never really had to use it up until about 4 years ago.

But in 2004 I had the first of 3 back surgeries. 2006 I had 2 surgeries with in 3 months of each other. In 2 years I had over a million dollars in hospital bills. But I was able to go to the doctor I wanted, I didn't have to wait for my surgery to be approved. When I was released from the hospital, I had a hospital bed and all that was needed for my recovery waiting for me at home. My cost was zip.

 

I may not ever need my insurance again. But I can tell you all, that those checks are not as painful to write as they use to be.

 

Absolutely agree! Not only do I not have to wait for a surgery, or for some government Joe to deem me worthy, but I get to choose WHICH insurance I have, be it a PPO or an HMO. No government is going to tell me what insurance I have to have, or whether or not I have to have it at all! The more one lets the government take control, the more we lose control over our own lives! Wake up Americans! Hillary and Obama want to take away your freedom of choice!

My name is Kelly L and I approve of this message

[amybear912]

Now the thing no one wants to say...if you did not follow these measures to insure your own safety (you only knowing you have this problem) please do not hassle Carnival. It is not their fault if you did not take these steps to insure your own safety...

 

Absolutely right on!

 

There is something about this that is concerning!

 

I suspect that there was nothing in the recipe that was seafood related...which is why the OP was not provided with a list of ingredients....because that in turn would have lead straight to cross-contamination of the OP's dish in the kitchen....which would mean an 'unclean' kitchen...'unclean' in the sense that the fish/seafood that contaminated the OP's dish was left behind after the fish/seafood was prepped on the same surface as his/her dish....and that would mean that Carnival would be open to a legitimate law suit by the OP!

 

I also suspect that the Chef, Sous Chef, and Line Cook got a good dressing down by the Staff Captain right after the Dr. reported the incident!

 

I believe this is exactly what happened... I don't think it was an "ingredient" problem but rather a "cross-contamination" problem...

 

And to conclude it wasn't the OP's fault or negligence is just plain outrageous. This ship hads been inspected by the CDC and FDA with a score of 98 out of 100. For you to suggest the ship is not keeping meeting it's obligation of cleanliness is outrageous as well.

quote]

I don't think you are understanding the way "cleanliness" is being referenced here... It's not "dirty" per se, just that there are certain standards a kitchen must maintain with regards to food prep...

 

I honestly believe the OP was the victim of cross-contamination... and if that was the case, I believe a well-written letter about the incident will probably go a long way into having this charge removed... The key is in your tone of the letter... If you approach it with the right attitude, I am sure they will knock off the charge... It's $250, which isn't much from their point of view to resolve an issue that is most likely related to kitchen error...

 

I do agree, however, that you had a level of responsibility to inform them of your allergy BEFORE you sailed, and certainly before you dined...

 

I am glad that you are okay... and truly sorry this happened to you... I feel for people who have severe food allergies as any time you eat out you are taking a risk... As long as PEOPLE are preparing food for others, mistakes are bound to happen... It's not intentional... there aren't any Chefs out there who intentionally make this sort of mistake... it is just that, a mistake made by a human being...

[qprrules]

Since your allergy is to shellfish and Pork Jerk doesn't have shellfish in it's recipe I would certainly inquire with Carnival about the waiving of the fee. If you had died, I'm sure Carnival would be paying quite a bit more:eek: Having said that, I would do it in a polite manner, much like your OP:cool:

I'm glad you are now well and hope more cruising is in your future, w/out the shellfish of course:)

[bnsilly]

I never understand why someone always wants compensation...It it the OP's medical condition..and things happen..I would be thankful you recovered well and consider it a blessing that you got great medical care, instead of trying to get them to drop the charges. Was $250 not worth the measures they took?:rolleyes:

[doodlefan]

Quote " The true fact is that 80% of all Americans HAVE health insurance. Of the 20% who do not, many of them CHOOSE not to have insurance. I have also heard horror stories of the Canadian health system....they're broke....people have to wait years for elective surgery...Canadians are flocking to the U.S. to have surgery because of the long wait there. I doubt this is a precise portrayal of the true state of affairs in Canada, but this is what I've heard/read. We have always had insurance, even when unemployed...in fact, our daughter was born after my husband was laid off from his job. She had many difficulties in the first year, resulting in 13 hospital admissions and 3 surgeries. The total bill was well over 1 million dollars between the hospital, doctors, surgeries and home health equipment. Our out of pocket cost....zero. I'll take our American health care system over any other system in the world...any day!" end quote

 

 

Wow, 20% of the population don't have ANY insurance, that's ALOT of people IMO. I'm pretty sure if you went to any single parents with children that absolutely CANNOT afford health insurance, they will tell you it's not by CHOICE. They can't afford to pay the $500 month that one poster stated which I think is ridiculous. Not many young families can afford that, that's why they have NO insurance or insurance with work that only covers a part of their bills.

 

Our Canadian health system isn't perfect, but it's not nearly as bad as some of the whiners make it out to be. With our family of 5 children, we have never had a problem. I have my choice of doctors, can get second, third opinons for no fee and CHOOSE who, how and what I want done, and maybe some surgeries do have wait times, but for the most part it's pretty good considering the entire country is treated free.

 

The best thing is when we are brought in to Emergency in pain or whatever we don't have some staff member asking about insurance before they decide how to treat you. The rich and the poor, are ALL treated the same.

 

I wouldn't take the US's system or anybody else's over the FREE and FAIR Canadian system ever.

[Sweetcharlotte30]

The true fact is that 80% of all Americans HAVE health insurance. Of the 20% who do not, many of them CHOOSE not to have insurance. I have also heard horror stories of the Canadian health system....they're broke....people have to wait years for elective surgery...Canadians are flocking to the U.S. to have surgery because of the long wait there. I doubt this is a precise portrayal of the true state of affairs in Canada, but this is what I've heard/read. We have always had insurance, even when unemployed...in fact, our daughter was born after my husband was laid off from his job. She had many difficulties in the first year, resulting in 13 hospital admissions and 3 surgeries. The total bill was well over 1 million dollars between the hospital, doctors, surgeries and home health equipment. Our out of pocket cost....zero. I'll take our American health care system over any other system in the world...any day!

 

Key word here is "elective surgery". If I want to get a facelift or liposuction, I'd go to the US defiantely. Elective surgery is not covered under our system, they say if you can live without it and it won't affect your health, why should we pay for it? And I totaly agree. It's true that people have to wait sometime for elective surgey (not not the majority) because the critical cases are a priority over those who simply want a brest reduction. On the otherside of the coin, if you loose over 100lbs Alberta Heathcare will pay for a tummy tuck. :) Some people are under the misconseption that our heathcare is federal, but it is infact provincial. Each province governs it's own healthcare system, so to say that our heathcare system is broke is really not that accurate. I am very proud to live in Canada and not once ever having to pay for health insurance premiums or ever see a medical bill. I have never had to wait more than 1/2hr at an ER (never life and death) for me or my children and I can always get into see my Doctor within a week if it's not urgent. The other day we suspected that my daughter had broke her finger and we were in and out of the ER in an hour, including triage, examination, xray and diagnosis. How's that for wait time?

[firefly333]

Since your allergy is to shellfish and Pork Jerk doesn't have shellfish in it's recipe I would certainly inquire with Carnival about the waiving of the fee. If you had died, I'm sure Carnival would be paying quite a bit more:eek: Having said that, I would do it in a polite manner, much like your OP:cool:

I'm glad you are now well and hope more cruising is in your future, w/out the shellfish of course:)

 

Because the OP didnt bring an epipen to protect himself against a life threatening allergy? Because he might be allergic to something other than shellfish in what sounds like a new dish he had never tried? Because he failed to buy insurance, and took a risk?

 

I do think people need to take some responsibility for their own decisions. It would be difficult to me to prove negligence on the part of Carnival.

 

I guess Im fence sitting on this issue, both sides might have some culpibility here.