Sick Child-Familythrown off ship (merged)

[Merion_Mom]

I am sure there are more than a few posters here from the medical community. At the MOMENT the ship doctor made his decision, in his view the child was dehydrated (from whatever cause). I have very little experience in the field of medicine, but even I know the treatment for extreme dehydration is an IV. From the medical experts here, how difficult is it for a non pediatric doctor or nurse to start an IV in an infant.

 

As I posted before, reading between the lines, the family was told to leave the ship for medical reasons. Instead they returned to their cabin and the mother got ready for bed.

 

This is a non story. Stupid parents doing stupid things are not sympathetic subjects for the 6 o’clock news.

Actually, I believe that they finally decided that their child was sick enough that she needed to see the doctor, and they had already gotten ready for bed (changed into pajamas) when they took her to the infirmary.

[2_4_cruising]

As a former Paramedic we were trained in pediatric/infant emergency care. The first thing our instructors told us was that those that presented the symptoms previously mentioned were to be immediately loaded and taken to the closest ER. As for the IV's it is extremely difficult to start an IV on a child of that age. Butterfly IV catheters are not the easiest things to work with and finding a decent vein equally as difficult. Most nurses have far more success in starting these IV's than even experienced ER and Pediatric physicians. As other posters have stated, the ships infirmary is basically a well stocked first aid station. They may very well not have the fine gauge butterfly cath's that would be needed. The ships doctor made the right call here. Perhaps the parents should think about their bill had the infant needed to be medivac'd by helicopter the following day..food for thought

 

Warren and Yvonne

[celle]

I wasn't making any judgments. I wasn't even talking about this case, but in general. If a person is having a heart attack, that is pertty easy to determine most times. It is hard for some doctors, with no pediatric background, to make the correct diagnoses. I think it would be good for RCCL to have someone with a pediatric background in their medical office. There are hundreds of kids on board any given cruise.

 

Speaking as an RN with some pediatric experience, I believe that almost all doctors receive some pediatric experience as a rotation during the course of their training.

 

However, to become a paediatrician takes time and further experience. Consequently, fully qualified paediatricians are expensive. It would not be cost-effective for cruise lines to employ one.

 

In the case under discussion, I believe that the RCCL doctor did the correct thing. Small babies can progress from illness to death very quickly.

 

Regardless of the diagnosis, with a young baby who has diarrhoea and vomiting, it is impossible to predict which young baby will recover spontaneously (as this one apparently did) and which will require IV fluid replacement for several days. You can't take a chance on it. Faced with the prospect of no hospital at the next port, the doctor had the sense to recognise that he/ she should not attempt to treat this baby on board, but should recommend hospitalisation.

 

It is not just a matter of having some pediatric knowledge. Small children need different dosages of medicines and strengths of IV fluids - normal saline (0.9%) used for adult IV fluids is too strong for babies and could cause harm. IV fluids suitable for young babies may not be carried on the ship in sufficient quantities to treat a sick baby for more than a short period.

[jlp20]

Actually, I believe that they finally decided that their child was sick enough that she needed to see the doctor, and they had already gotten ready for bed (changed into pajamas) when they took her to the infirmary.

 

From the story: "The family said a security guard gave them 10 minutes to pack their bags and get off the boat. It was 11 o'clock at night.

 

"I asked if my wife could get out of their pajamas and there was no time for that. We had to leave,"

 

1. The Medical Center is not open that late.

 

2. Sick child or not, do you know any woman NOT getting dressed to visit a doctor. Remember this was not an emergency in their eyes. "They" were wearing pajamas.

 

3. The cost for "emergency" passports is the same as regular credentials. Replacement passports do not cost as much.

[gotbeer]

I feel bad for the family that their child became sick, and for getting disembarked from the ship the way it was told on the news clip, if that did indeed happen that way. Shame shame on the cruise lines for dealing with it that way, But I,m not sure it did.

 

But as far as them wanting the cruise lines to pay them back for the money to get back home. No Way. No Chance. And why did they not have passports? I thought RCCL required that?

 

If your dumb enough to travel without insurance I dont feel sorry for them at all in reguards to the money they had to spend to get home. They said they had to walk on foot to the embassy??? what ? there,s no taxi,s, busses, ect?

 

I never like to hear of bad things happen to people, and when its a child it,s even worse, but come on, no insurance? serves them right to have to pay for their own mistake. I dont even think that the cruise lines should pay them back for their cruise, thats why they have a thing called travelers insurance.

 

And when people say they cant afford insurance, well I guess thats the chance they take if they choose to travel. I hope they learned a lesson about it. The child is alive so thats a good thing, As for their holliday being messed up because of it, thats a crappy thing to happen to anyone.

 

If you cant afford to properly protect your family with not getting the insurance then you should stay home. Not to after the fact to try to pass blame to the cruise lines.

[Merion_Mom]

I feel bad for the family that their child became sick, and for getting disembarked from the ship the way it was told on the news clip, if that did indeed happen that way. Shame shame on the cruise lines for dealing with it that way, But I,m not sure it did.

 

But as far as them wanting the cruise lines to pay them back for the money to get back home. No Way. No Chance. And why did they not have passports? I thought RCCL required that?

Nope. You can travel with a birth certificate and a driver's license.

 

If your dumb enough to travel without insurance I dont feel sorry for them at all in reguards to the money they had to spend to get home. They said they had to walk on foot to the embassy??? what ? there,s no taxi,s, busses, ect?

 

I never like to hear of bad things happen to people, and when its a child it,s even worse, but come on, no insurance? serves them right to have to pay for their own mistake. I dont even think that the cruise lines should pay them back for their cruise, thats why they have a thing called travelers insurance.

 

And when people say they cant afford insurance, well I guess thats the chance they take if they choose to travel. I hope they learned a lesson about it. The child is alive so thats a good thing, As for their holliday being messed up because of it, thats a crappy thing to happen to anyone.

 

If you cant afford to properly protect your family with not getting the insurance then you should stay home. Not to after the fact to try to pass blame to the cruise lines.

[gotbeer]

Hmmmm I did not know that. Thank you. i,m assuming thats just for US people? I,m sure thats gonna change soon though.

[gotbeer]

So if they did not need a passport to get on the ship, then why did they need 1 to fly home?

 

I got some info about closed loop cruises, and it says just what u said about a birth certifacate, So my q again is why did they need a passport to fly home? It dosent make sence to me about that 1. LOL

Passport Requirements

 

A valid passport is a requirement for air travel to / from Canada, Mexico the Caribbean and Bermuda.

 

Effective June 1, 2009 only a valid passport (unless otherwise noted below) or other WHTI compliant document will be accepted for entry or re-entry into the United States. For a list of all approved documents visit: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html#compliant_document

 

U.S. citizens on closed-loop cruises (cruises that begin and end at the same port in the U.S.) will be able to enter or depart the country with proof of citizenship, such as a birth certificate and laminated government issued picture ID, denoting photo, name and date of birth. A U.S. citizen under the age of 16 will be able to present either an original or a copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad issues by DOS, or Certificate of Naturalization issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

 

In that case then, If a passport was needed to fly, then should it not have been a requirment to cruise? dont you think? If thats the case i feel the line should be somewhat responsible for that cost. Never the less they should have had insurance.

[madforcruising]

So if they did not need a passport to get on the ship, then why did they need 1 to fly home?

 

I got some info about closed loop cruises, and it says just what u said about a birth certifacate, So my q again is why did they need a passport to fly home? It dosent make sence to me about that 1. LOL

Passport Requirements

 

A valid passport is a requirement for air travel to / from Canada, Mexico the Caribbean and Bermuda.

 

Effective June 1, 2009 only a valid passport (unless otherwise noted below) or other WHTI compliant document will be accepted for entry or re-entry into the United States. For a list of all approved documents visit: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html#compliant_document

 

U.S. citizens on closed-loop cruises (cruises that begin and end at the same port in the U.S.) will be able to enter or depart the country with proof of citizenship, such as a birth certificate and laminated government issued picture ID, denoting photo, name and date of birth. A U.S. citizen under the age of 16 will be able to present either an original or a copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad issues by DOS, or Certificate of Naturalization issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

 

In that case then, If a passport was needed to fly, then should it not have been a requirment to cruise? dont you think? If thats the case i feel the line should be somewhat responsible for that cost. Never the less they should have had insurance.

 

 

The passport requirement is not the decision of the cruiseline. Following some of the passport discussions on these boards I got the following.

 

The US government made it a requirement to have a passport to reenter the US after foreign travel. However they made the exemtpion you quoted above to cruise ship passengers.

It seems that some people are very resistant to get a passport for various reasons and so they still cruise without them. Of course the cruise line coul go above government requirements and make passports a must to cruise, but you can bet that would give them bad publicity again and a sheer uproar of those who don´t want to get passports.

 

So I don´t think it´s the cruiselines fault here to let people cruise without a passport if it´s not a government requirement.

[madforcruising]

I wasn't making any judgments. I wasn't even talking about this case, but in general. If a person is having a heart attack, that is pertty easy to determine most times. It is hard for some doctors, with no pediatric background, to make the correct diagnoses. I think it would be good for RCCL to have someone with a pediatric background in their medical office. There are hundreds of kids on board any given cruise.

 

Just as a side note it´s not that easy to diagnose a heart attack in many cases.

 

Anyway that´s not the topic here and I would think even a pediatric as a ships doctor might have sent the infant to a hospital.

 

The ships doctor could be the best expert on world with the given case but he´s still limited in what can be done on a ship. There´s just not the same equipment onboard and he has to face the fact that they are about to sail out and any upcoming complications will be much worse to treat and may require huge efforts like turning the ship around, calling a helicopter etc. Those are not only costly but what many forget dangerous on the patient and the people involved in the rescue.

 

Many on here are talking about a misdiagnosis by the ships doctor. I don´t think anyone of us can tell if it was a misdiagnosis or not based on the information we have, but I don´t think it even matters in this case. The decision was made based on the condition of the infant and the symptoms. The ships doctor would probably have sent the child off with the diagnosis cold and his condition and symptoms as well. All this said we don´t even know what diagnosis the ships doctor actually made.

[beachchick]

Yes, I think the Doc didn't want to be "liable" for taking care of such a small child. Then I think if that's the case you shouldn' t let infants on board..... If you can't care for them if they have a simple cold then you shouldn't have them on as your guests....But you shouldn't have it both ways.. let infants sail and then throw them and their families off the ship

 

CuriousCat

 

Does it really sound like a "simple cold" to you? An infant who is vomiting and who has diarrhea is in serious danger of dehydration and other complications. Did this child have a high fever? If so, that's another serious concern. Fevers in infants can be difficult to treat because babies are so sensitive to medications.

 

I can't believe the family was more concerned with staying on the ship than they were about their infant's health. What if the baby had taken a turn for the worse while the ship was at sea? Besides the risk to the baby, they'd have to wait for emergency medical evacuation.

 

Ships' medical centers have never claimed to be able to handle complex or difficult medical situations. If the doctor's best medical advice was that the baby needed to be seen in a regular medical center or hospital, then that's what the ship's captain needed to follow.

 

I certainly think that the whole thing should have been handled better though. Why did it happen in the middle of the night? Why didn't they have more notice? Why was there no RCI rep on shore to help them get to the hospital and so forth? Although technically the cruise line isn't obligated to do that, it's bad practice (IMO) to just leave them there to fend for themselves. (That doesn't apply to those who are kicked off the ship because of behavior--They should be booted off and left to find their own way home.)

 

beachchick

[cs]

"Everyone was crying and pleading that they wouldn't throw us of the boat, begging them if we could stay," Luis Cortes said.

 

I missed that part when I first read it. That says to me that the family was NOT concerned about the health of their child. They were more concerned about staying on the ship - ugh!

 

I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a minute - In the family's defense:

 

From my own experinece as a parent, I don't know why this happens but it usually does - kids seem to get sicker at night. They can be somewhat fussy during the day and progress to very sick at night. We've made many ER trips in the middle of the night because of this.

 

A lot of people (especially first time cruisers) gamble and don't get insurance. They don't want to fork out that money because the odds are in their favor that they aren't going to need it. And the same holds true for passports. The odds are actually in their favor that they aren't going to need passports either.

 

Not saying they were right AT ALL - but if they were pleading with the ship's staff to let them stay onboard, then they actually thought the baby was healthier than the doctor said. So having the ER doctor back them up on that - saying she wasn't dehydrated and only had a cold and she was safe to travel - that made them fuming mad. They instantly took the "I told you so" position towards the RCL doctor.

 

So they made mistakes. They didn't think their child needed to go to the ER. They didn't get passports. They didn't buy insurance. Hindsight is 20/20 right? But that's a lot of guilt to live with. It's so much easier right now to blame the ship's doctor since the ER doctor said that baby was actually okay to travel. It's not right what they're doing but it's human nature to not want to feel guilty.

[Goldryder]

I wonder if this thread would have been started had the baby remained on board and died...

 

Probably so...and the ship's doctor would probably have been hung out to dry.

 

The baby was very unwell, the parents decided to go see the doctor at the end of the day when the baby had obvioulsy got worse (otherwise they wouldn't have gone to the doctor in the first place).

 

The doctor did his best to diagnose a baby that was in danger of possibly being dehydrated or at least on the way there by the time he/she saw it.

 

He/she felt that whatever the cause for the baby's illness was not withing his/her remit or specialist training, so he/she took the clear medical decision to have the baby taken to the hospital on land...not wishing to risk the baby deteriorating any further (which could have happened and usually ends in the death of a baby that young).

 

So basically the doctor is damned if he/she takes the step of sending a baby to hospital, just as he/she would be damned if that decision was not made and the baby died on board ship later that night.

 

Sorry and all that but the doctor made an educated decision to have the baby removed from the ship to more suitable facilities with personnel who would be more able to diagnose what was a potentially dangerous and life threatening condition had it been left without specialist treatment and care.

 

The parents must have known the baby was ill during the day leading up to their visit to the doctor that night and they did nothing. They did not have insurance and there is also a quiestion about passports too. The parents, therefore, were negligent in not having appropriate cover in respect to insurance, they were negligent in knowing they had a sick baby and waiting til the last minute before the ship was due to sail to go and seek assistance from the doctor.

 

The doctor acted in the proper manner expected. The parents were far more interested in the cruise than their baby's welfare...which is probably why they left it to the last minute before seeking medical advice on board, they were obviously hoping the cause of the illness would quietly wear off. It would not surprise me at all if the baby was listless, feverish and possibly fitting by the time the parents finally decided to get advice.

 

They should be thanking the doctor, not trying to make a quick buck out of what happened.

[24Sox]

Actually, the article is not clear on whether they:

 

a. never had passports in the first place

 

or

 

b. left them on the ship

If they had them, presumably they would have taken them with them when they got off the ship, since they were told to pack all their stuff.

[aurelius180]

If they had them, presumably they would have taken them with them when they got off the ship, since they were told to pack all their stuff.

 

 

Apparently with this family you never know. They may have been more interested in a change of clothes than their passports.

[24Sox]

Apparently with this family you never know. They may have been more interested in a change of clothes than their passports.

Sad, but true. Just because that would be the first thing I would grab when getting off the ship doesn't mean they have that much sense.

[Rancher Dave]

It is really sad when news reporting become a slanted affair and their desire to make a name of themselves in 'consumer protection reporting' is getting in the way of fair and balanced journalism.

 

Isn't slanted reporting the norm here in the USA? Not that I want censored news, but most of the news is pretty slanted these days.

 

Friday night even the weather man provided a slanted view of how the weather would unfold...although I will give him a pass on it...wish he had been more accurate though!

[jdh]

I am sticking up for RCL. First of all, don't cruise with infants or very young children....a cruise ship is no place for them. Secondly, get your passports and your travel insurance; it doesn't cost much and the peace of mind is immeasurable. Sorry but I simply do not believe that RCL wouldn't even let these people change from their pajamas into clothes. In my opinion, this was an unfortunate incident for this family and they are trying to recoup some of their losses from the cruiseline. Sorry...no one owes them a reimbursement because they chose not to purchase insurance and because they did not have their passports. Come on people, RCL isn't going to throw them off without their passports. Please! I think credit for another cruise is top-notch.

[newbiecruiser09]

Even a pediatrician will send an infant to the ER for re-hydration if they see they need it (happened to my niece. Went to the ped, who immediately sent her to the ER for IV fluids)so I believe the ship's doctor did the right thing.

 

I also find it odd that there is no follow up to the story 2+ days later. If what the family said happened actually happened I would think there would be a follow up with more ranting about how they were treated. My guess is someone actually checked the facts and that's why we have not heard anything more.

[pcur]

Let's turn this around and suppose it wasn't a child but an adult who had symptoms of a heart attack. The ship would not be equipped for this and the passenger and famiy would have to deal with the same situation. This is only "newsworthy" because it's a baby. I can't stand people who parade stories like this around just because it's a baby. Is the world supposed to stop because YOUR child is sick?! I would be upset if I was on the cruise and it waited around. They gave them 10 minutes because their was 2,000+ more passengers on their vacation. and their kid is sick! They needed to go to a hospital

 

Why would someone bring such a young baby on a cruise? I'm only 27 with no kids and have enough sense to know their immune systems are weak and get sick at the drop of a hat. Go someplace that can accomodate them a little better.

 

I agree, and I've said it before. I don't think any child that small should be exposed to a large group of confined people. Children are susceptible to illnesses in geographic areas away from their home, where they have built up immunities to the "local" virus strains.

 

I think the parents of this child could not have foreseen her illness, but people who go to a foreign country with no passports, and who do not purchase travel insurance when they travel with an infant, are people who don't plan ahead, to put it mildy.

 

I feel RCCL did the right thing, and were generous to give them the cruise credit.

[FL_Cruiser64]

I wonder if this thread would have been started had the baby remained on board and died...

 

Probably so...and the ship's doctor would probably have been hung out to dry.

 

 

Absolutely.

 

Headline: Cruise line killed baby!

ans as a sub headline: Parents begged to have child transfered to hospital but ruthless captain left port!

[Cruise Cat]

Just from reading the article (and not all the posts), I am first drawn to the part about Pleading to stay on the ship. Was being on a cruise ship more important than the infant's health/life?

 

If the child was throwing up and had dirarrea it was going to get dehydrated soon, even though it may not have been already. The best thing for the child is to get them the best care possible.

 

It never says if they were given the option for one of them to stay on the ship.

 

If they let them stay on the ship and the baby got worse then a medivac operation would have been involved which takes a lot of time and would delay the baby getting the proper treatment. Let's say the baby did have to be medivaced off the ship - would the parents still have wanted to stay on the ship?

 

Why didn't they have passports with them? Everyone knows (if you've picked up a newspaper in the last six months) you might have to leave the ship for any reason at any port (or in between) and need proper identification for those countires and to get back in the U.S.

 

Cruiseline erred on the side of caution.

[mamaza]

Read the first couple pages of this thread, the news article and the last page of the thread:

 

NOTE: It doesn't sell press (or TV) to say Big Company does right thing and doesn't allow family to jeordize babies life by staying on board. Family leaves ship with Big Company giving cash credit for cruise but forgets passports.

 

No, to sell a story, the little guy has to look like a victim.

 

Only my opinion, but I've sure seen a lot of that lately.:mad:

[Cruise Cat]

Read the first couple pages of this thread, the news article and the last page of the thread:

 

NOTE: It doesn't sell press (or TV) to say Big Company does right thing and doesn't allow family to jeordize babies life by staying on board. Family leaves ship with Big Company giving cash credit for cruise but forgets passports.

 

No, to sell a story, the little guy has to look like a victim.

 

Only my opinion, but I've sure seen a lot of that lately.:mad:

 

Maybe we can all start a new trend for the threads on here::D

 

- I Didn't Get Kicked Off My Cruise Ship

- We Got Exactly What We Paid For On Our Cruise

- Ship Drink Prices About the Same As Local Bars

- As Expected, We Did Not Get Upgraded

- Someone Explain The Rules So I Do Not Violate Them

- Captain Made A Great Decision

- Ship's Doctor Made A Great Decision

- Reading My Cruise Contract First Avoided Misunderstanding

- Troublemakers Thrown Off Cruise Ship - Passengers Cheer!

- World Economics Force Fuel Surcharge - Passengers All Understand

- Captain Alters Course To Avoid Hurricane - Possibly Saves Lives

[Head Shot]

The TV stations are undergoing sweeps week- sensationalized stories are shoved to front page billing. All for the rating quotient - to charge advertisers for top dollar. This is no exception.

 

This story fell onto their lap, so without much effort to spend time to research it, they decided to just go with it.