missed flight = lawsuit??

[FlyerTalker]

did you have assigned seats on your flight?

Having pre-assigned seats is NOT a guarantee that you will either a) 100% fly on that flight and b) 100% have those seats if you do go on that flight. Just FYI.

[Sue (mom of 3 boys!)]

Having pre-assigned seats is NOT a guarantee that you will either a) 100% fly on that flight and b) 100% have those seats if you do go on that flight. Just FYI.

why is that?

Why pay for an assigned seat if it's not really assigned? :confused:

 

geez, I wish we lived closer to Florida. (But not really-I'd miss New England:rolleyes: )

[smeyer418]

I would just like to have some reason to find against this lawyer and sock a nice juicy judgment against him. Although making him pay DL's legal costs would be a nice start....

 

 

Now that is a nice statement. You don't even know the facts. Its clear from what we know so far that he does have a case how strong or a good one we don't know. Unless the case was totally without merit no court would order attorneys fees. and your statement claearly shows your prejudice is showing...every one hates lawyers...until they need one.

 

... tort reform!

 

Further, there are normally three sides to every story: his, Delta's, and the truth (which is somewhere between the other two). And Delta hasn't given their version yet.

 

 

Its not a TORT(bodily injury or medical malpractice or products liability are example of tort cases) case at all! Its a contracts case. Tort reform wouldn't make a difference.

 

NO-space available. HOWEVER, IF you have purchased tickets-NOT FF, NOT cruise air-airlines can and will put you on another carrier. Of course, the "other carrier" has to have space available. During the Xmas holiday, space available may be very tight. AND I would make an educated guess that the party DID NOT want to split up. That is a BIG problem during heavy air times. Split the party up-you have a lot more options that way.

 

And again, it does not appear that the family had plan B-alternative airports, alternative flights, alternative routings. They MAY have been able to route out of ATL to JFK, then a foreign carrier to BA. Or any of a dozen different routings. NO they are NOT direct flights. NO they may not be the easiest or most convenient and may have long layover time. But unless airports are totally shutdown due to snow, there is generally a routing to get you to your destination within a couple of days. This only works on non consolidator tickets (cruise air tickets and some purchased from Bestfares.com, Airfare.com, Cheaptickets, Vayama, etc. etc. are consolidator tickets). FF tickets are only good on PARTNER airlines. That limited this party to Continental and COPA. And I bet they didn't want to go on COPA with the long layover in Panama City.

 

I don't think this guy has a chance in h****. Another lawyer suing to sue. If he had any saavy at all, he would have recouped most of his money through travel insurance. I am a non practicing transportation attorney. If he came to me as a potential client, I would have sent him on his way. We don't know the entire story, but I will bet that there were ways to mitigate his damages-just not EASY or CONVENIENT.

 

I wouldn't say that. Ever since Ralph Nader(who I seriously dislike for other reasons) obtained damages for being bumped, some cases do get damages and consequential damages. The fact that you might not take the case doesn't mean it doesn't have merit. I wouldn't take the case either for other reasons.

[smeyer418]

...g..

 

Many folks made lawyer comments. I think the only people who can afford to bring many lawsuits are lawyers (I heard is claimed that you should never sue for less than 1 million because that means only the lawyers are gonna get paid), when most of us get what we consider a bad deal we can't afford to sue; we just take our lumps. I think he is jumping in on the passenger's bill of rights wagon. I do think most of us don't know enough about what to do when a problem occurs. Almost all of these situations could be handled better, it would add cost though.

 

actually statistically the group that both sues the most and gets sued the most is not lawyers...its Doctors. Besides Malpractice lawsuits, they sue when they are fired from a job: they sue when they are denied privileges: they sue because someone says something they don't like.......its because they can afford it. They sue over reimbursement...they are just sue crazy...

[Cuizer2]

they are just sue crazy...

Do you know Sue's last name?

[6rugrats]

actually statistically the group that both sues the most and gets sued the most is not lawyers...its Doctors. Besides Malpractice lawsuits, they sue when they are fired from a job: they sue when they are denied privileges: they sue because someone says something they don't like.......its because they can afford it. They sue over reimbursement...they are just sue crazy...

 

This sounds very anecdotal. References please for this statement?

[nho9504]

Oh I understand. I was only making the point that the staff was increadibly rude, and really did not care that our family vacation was put on hold because of the airline, not us.

 

We usually book with another airline that automaticly assigns seats to us, we did not know about the "check in" time. Now we do.

 

Lou

 

You can do online check-in, even if you have checked luggages, for most airlines, including Southwest. In fact, online check-in is almost a MUST if you fly Southwest, in order to be able to board early. Though you still dont have assigned seats with Southwest.

 

Most major airlines let you choose your seats online too. You can even view seat plan BEFORE you make your purchase online. The requirement is, at least for some airlines, you need to belong to that airline's FF program which is free to join, in order to view your reservation and pick seats online.

[nho9504]

why is that?

Why pay for an assigned seat if it's not really assigned? :confused:

geez, I wish we lived closer to Florida. (But not really-I'd miss New England:rolleyes: )

 

One example is, you could lose your assigned seats if you check-in too late. Most domestic flights require you to check-in 30minutes before flight. If you haven't checked in before the closing time, your assigned seats would be given away to standby passengers.

 

Besides, the contractual agreement (the carrier's contract or whatever name it is called), does not cover the assigned seat. There is no obligation from the airline to guarantee the seats you are being assigned - whether at booking or at check-in. The essence of the contract is, the airline is obligated to get you from point A to point B per the ticket you purchased. (I know I grossly generalize it, but this is the heart of the contract.)

[Shorex]

Do you know Sue's last name?

 

Crazy. She sat next to me on my last flight. :rolleyes:

[Lou_70]

One example is, you could lose your assigned seats if you check-in too late. Most domestic flights require you to check-in 30minutes before flight. If you haven't checked in before the closing time, your assigned seats would be given away to standby passengers.

 

Besides, the contractual agreement (the carrier's contract or whatever name it is called), does not cover the assigned seat. There is no obligation from the airline to guarantee the seats you are being assigned - whether at booking or at check-in. The essence of the contract is, the airline is obligated to get you from point A to point B per the ticket you purchased. (I know I grossly generalize it, but this is the heart of the contract.)

 

I understand what you all are saying. I checked in 2 hours before our flight, I purchased the tickets 3 months before our trip. All of this stuff is good info.

 

My ONLY point was that after the airline bumped us they were EXTREMELY rude and ignorant to our needs. I can totally understand that guy saying how the airline people he was trying to talk to were rude, because it happened to me.

 

Thats my only point. I am not trying to start another thread about getting bumped on airline flights, just agreeing that the airlines in general have us by the short hairs and whatever they want to do, we have to follow like sheep or they kick us off, or threatin to arrest you.

 

Just like the gas prices today, or the ciggerette prices, you really have no choice but to suck it up if you want to do those things i.e. travel, smoke ect.

[smeyer418]

This sounds very anecdotal. References please for this statement?

It was cited by the executive director of the Medical society in NJ.....I believe it came from JAMA

[greatam]

You know this, or are you just assuming this is the case?

 

Of course it is an assumption. BUT

 

I would sincerely doubt, in fact, I would bet quite a little bit of money that there was SOME seating on SOME routing to get everyone to BA, even during Xmas. Most likely, not all on the same flight nor the same routing, but one seat on this flight, two seats on that flight, etc. etc.

 

The family obviously found some flight on some airline that had five seats available. IF they would have split up, they most likely would have missed one day of vacation. There are several COPA flights per day, which would have gotten them into Panama City, Panama. Then numerous flights to Santiago, Lima, Rio on variety of airlines. At worst, they would have had to pay for one way flight from Santiago, Lima or Rio to BA.

 

Again, I will bet money that they did not want to split up, did not want an alternative routing, especially one with two or three stops and did not want to fly COPA, Avianca or AeroMexico. They most likely were VERY insistant-wanted the one stop in ATL, the nonstop to EZE ON DELTA and wouldn't settle for anything less.

 

This is the perfect example of having available alternative routings IN HAND when problems arise. The object of the game is to get to your destination. The routing or stops should not matter in the least if there are problems. Some people just don't realize that.

[greatam]

I understand what you all are saying. I checked in 2 hours before our flight, I purchased the tickets 3 months before our trip. All of this stuff is good info.

 

 

Checking in 2 hours before our flight-that was probably the cause of your problem.

 

With almost all airlines allowing online check in-it is a very good possibility that most of the flight had checked in online-long before you did. Some as much as 22 hours before you did.

 

So you were at the tail end of the list for checking in. And if there were no volunteers, you were the ones to get bumped. Sorry.

 

It can be a bad experience. I hope you at least got free vouchers for the value of your tickets out of the bump.

[Cuizer2]

Of course it is an assumption. BUT

 

I would sincerely doubt, in fact, I would bet quite a little bit of money that there was SOME seating on SOME routing to get everyone to BA, even during Xmas. Most likely, not all on the same flight nor the same routing, but one seat on this flight, two seats on that flight, etc. etc.

 

Several Christmases ago I arrived at the airport in Columbia, SC on time. I got on the plane and waited while they fixed some problem. Then another problem came up and we were asked to go back into the terminal while they fixed the plane. I went to the desk and explained that I was going to miss my connecting flight. Delta agreed and that is when the fun started.

 

After about 15 minutes of typing I asked what she was doing. Delta could not find another seat for me. JUST ME - one person. Delta even called one or two other airlines. No seats were available. That means no seats on a later flight and not seats on any other airline.

 

Finally I was rerouted through two different airports, while my luggage went to Hawaii on its own. Then it took three days to get my luggage back.

 

So don't assume that there are other seats available during Christmas time. EVERY flight I have been on for the last twelve months has been FULL.

[greatam]

Unless the case was totally without merit no court would order attorneys fees.

 

I sure don't understand this statement. Attorney fees are routinely ordered paid by loosing parties.

 

 

 

I wouldn't say that. Ever since Ralph Nader(who I seriously dislike for other reasons) obtained damages for being bumped, some cases do get damages and consequential damages. The fact that you might not take the case doesn't mean it doesn't have merit. I wouldn't take the case either for other reasons.

 

What does Ralph Nader and his famous "bump" case have to do with irregular ops and missed connections?

 

When all is said and done, Delta MAY pay off because it MAY be the cheapest way to go (nuisance lawsuit-out of court settlement-sealed agreement). But unless they want to set precedent, it would be a very bad move, IMHO. I still think the guy is in left field and NO mention of travel insurance, which would have covered most of the expenses UNLESS he refused to split up the family, take an alternate carrier or fly alternate routings. Then he can and should pay for his stupidity.

[greatam]

Several Christmases ago I arrived at the airport in Columbia, SC on time. I got on the plane and waited while they fixed some problem. Then another problem came up and we were asked to go back into the terminal while they fixed the plane. I went to the desk and explained that I was going to miss my connecting flight. Delta agreed and that is when the fun started.

 

After about 15 minutes of typing I asked what she was doing. Delta could not find another seat for me. JUST ME - one person. Delta even called one or two other airlines. No seats were available. That means no seats on a later flight and not seats on any other airline.

 

Finally I was rerouted through two different airports, while my luggage went to Hawaii on its own. Then it took three days to get my luggage back.

 

So don't assume that there are other seats available during Christmas time. EVERY flight I have been on for the last twelve months has been FULL.

 

Flights to Hawaii do fly full and not just at Xmas. But you are generally dealing with US carriers. In this instance-South America-LOTS of cities for connections once you get out of the USA and all on foreign carriers.

 

A lot of foreign airlines do not fly nearly as full as US carriers do. I fly LAN to South America and Cathay and JAL to Asia about 4 times per year to each area. I have even quite flying AA overseas for the most part because the planes are sooooo very full and even in first class, the service is not very good.

 

On the foreign carrier flights, only first class is full all the time. There are usually business seats available and there are ALWAYS coach seats available. Foreign carriers have a different business model-they actually make money and do not have to cram the planes totally full.

 

I still bet money there were seats available on a foreign carrier. The lawyer found them on some airline.

[Cuizer2]

Flights to Hawaii do fly full and not just at Xmas.

 

I said my luggage went to Hawaii. I didn't. I went home - Los Angeles. It took three days for my luggage to get home. However, it did have a very nice tan. :rolleyes:

 

Now, how do you know the lawyer found a seat on a foreign carrier??? If you are so good at figuring things out, how come you haven't won the lottery several times? :confused:

[Lou_70]

Checking in 2 hours before our flight-that was probably the cause of your problem.

 

With almost all airlines allowing online check in-it is a very good possibility that most of the flight had checked in online-long before you did. Some as much as 22 hours before you did.

 

So you were at the tail end of the list for checking in. And if there were no volunteers, you were the ones to get bumped. Sorry.

 

It can be a bad experience. I hope you at least got free vouchers for the value of your tickets out of the bump.

 

Once again thanks... but my post is not about me being bumped or the cause of it, just that airlines are VERY rude!

 

-Lou

[greatam]

I said my luggage went to Hawaii. I didn't. I went home - Los Angeles. It took three days for my luggage to get home. However, it did have a very nice tan. :rolleyes:

 

Now, how do you know the lawyer found a seat on a foreign carrier??? If you are so good at figuring things out, how come you haven't won the lottery several times? :confused:

 

I'm going to buy you reading glasses-LOL

 

I DID NOT post the lawyer found seats on a foreign carrier. I posted there most likely were seats on foreign carriers. The lawyer found seats on SOME airline.

 

But out of MIA, you have limited choices that are NOT foreign carriers. Delta was the problem, NW doesn't fly to SA, Continental MAY have been an option, as well as AA. AA has the ONLY nonstop flights out of MIA and I would guess that plane was full. US has two stops, going back north before flying South, as does United.

 

But then you get to the foreign carriers. TACA, LASCA, GOL, AeroMexico, Mexicanna, 3 LAN divisions, COPA, Avianca, AeroLineas Argentina, TAM and even Santa Barbara Airlines to Ecuador. What do you think the chances of getting on a foreign carrier were????

[smeyer418]

I sure don't understand this statement. Attorney fees are routinely ordered paid by loosing parties.

 

 

 

 

 

What does Ralph Nader and his famous "bump" case have to do with irregular ops and missed connections?

 

When all is said and done, Delta MAY pay off because it MAY be the cheapest way to go (nuisance lawsuit-out of court settlement-sealed agreement). But unless they want to set precedent, it would be a very bad move, IMHO. I still think the guy is in left field and NO mention of travel insurance, which would have covered most of the expenses UNLESS he refused to split up the family, take an alternate carrier or fly alternate routings. Then he can and should pay for his stupidity.

 

Attorneys fees are NOT routinely ordered unless there is a specific statutory provision or its in the contract mutually. The American rule(as opposed to the British rule) is that attorneys fees are NOT collectible unless as I describe above and even when there is a statutory provision(like in discrimination cases), it is rarely ordered against a losing plaintiff.

The one exception is a truly(in the legal sense) a frivolous case. In federal court this is called a rule 10 sanction and it is extremely rare....its about given as often as the Supreme Court takes a cases which is less than 1 in a 1000.

 

What is routinely ordered is what is called costs...costs are things like the cost of buying the index number and some transcription costs pennies on the dollar of the actual cost of a lawsuit but they are NOT attorneys fees..

 

My point about Ralph Nader is until he sued no one was getting anything for being bumped, and we don't have enough facts to determine whether the plaintiff is entitled to it. You are of course entitled to have your opinion on it but what I describe above is the facts on attorneys fees and I don't disagree with what the probable out come is(a sealed settlement)...

[helpmesailaway]

Greatam is one of the most helpful and knowlegable people on this site regarding airline issues. I would listen to anything greatam has to say regarding airline procedures.

[happy cruzer]

I agree Greatam knows airlines. And I think everyone has shared a different view which I appreciate from everyone.

 

I'm just a little in the lawyer's corner because the airline has such an open contract. They just agree to put you on the next available flight. The whole situation is very hectic. They look at a screen and tell you a whole bunch of flight numbers and times and want you to decide NOW. So couldn't the passenger bill of rights give you a couple of rights like

 

The airline must get you to the destination in 48 hours?? with similar arrangements that you made.

 

And they have to provide you your options in writing and give you an hour or two to decide which you want?

 

I know that sounds like alot but they are dealing with the general public.

 

There must be a better way of handling the changes that are becoming more frequent.

[smeyer418]

Attorneys fees are NOT routinely ordered unless there is a specific statutory provision or its in the contract mutually. The American rule(as opposed to the British rule) is that attorneys fees are NOT collectible unless as I describe above and even when there is a statutory provision(like in discrimination cases), it is rarely ordered against a losing plaintiff.

The one exception is a truly(in the legal sense) a frivolous case. In federal court this is called a rule 10 sanction and it is extremely rare....its about given as often as the Supreme Court takes a cases which is less than 1 in a 1000.

 

What is routinely ordered is what is called costs...costs are things like the cost of buying the index number and some transcription costs pennies on the dollar of the actual cost of a lawsuit but they are NOT attorneys fees..

 

My point about Ralph Nader is until he sued no one was getting anything for being bumped, and we don't have enough facts to determine whether the plaintiff is entitled to it. You are of course entitled to have your opinion on it but what I describe above is the facts on attorneys fees and I don't disagree with what the probable out come is(a sealed settlement)...

oops its a rule 11 sanction

 

http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/Rule11.htm

 

and this has a basic discussion of attorneys fees

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attorney's_fees

[Cuizer2]

I'm going to buy you reading glasses-LOL

 

Thank you. Don't forget a pair for yourself and perhaps the airline employee who sent my LAX luggage to Hawaii.

[paul929207]

If everything the guy said is true, he doesn't deserve a dime. Rude service may be poor, but it does not mean he deserves any compensation.