Renaissance revisited?

[world~citizen]

I am thinking of a cruise with O - ships seem fine and the itineraries are great.

 

You always have a few jitters when you book with a new line. I am very mindful that these are the old R ships, and that half the ownership of this line is from Renaissance. Now that line failed because it deserved to. I never booked an R cruise because when I spoke with their reps, the company didn't pass the sniff test - and what they did to their passengers at the end was in fact rotten.

 

As I read this board I get a queasy feeling. Chronic overbooking seems like a show stopper to me. I simply can't change my plans a couple of weeks before a cruise. This business of calling you up with better and better buyout offers, for whatever reason, just doesn't seem like the right way to do business.

 

Nevertheless, I will remain open-minded, at least for a while.

 

Has anyone been forced to accept a buyout - it stands to reason sooner or later someone will.

 

Whatever observations you may have would be helpful and appreciated. I trust the judgement of those who have cruised the line before.

 

Smooth sailing...

[meow!]

Don't worry. Oceania is a good line with good food, itinerary and service. There is nothing you need to be concerned about, except that in the last five years, its fares have risen faster than most others and may not be that price competitive any more. If you like a particular voyage and don't mind paying more, go for it.

 

Your remembering the old Renaissance does bring back memories of how cheap Renaissance fares used to be. Also while Renaissance's model of business -- no travel agents -- did not work, some of us prefer it that way. It is a more efficient form of direct marketing, and as airlines go for direct on-line booking by the passengers themselves, it is not inconceivable that down the road, the old Renaissance's business model may be more successful than in the past. Of course, that will still be some years down the road.

 

In the meantime, book it if you can afford it!

[Bocker3]

If I have been reading all the posts about "overbooking" correctly, your fear of being forced to accept a buy-out simply can not happen. It seems that they offer buyouts to solidly booked passengers (i.e. have a cabin or a guarantee) to help get a higher paying WAITLISTED passenger onboard. If no one takes a buyout offer, the waitlisted passenger(s) don't get booked. It doesn't sound like they book multiple parties into the same cabin so, if you fulfill your end of a booking agreement, i.e. pay everything on time, you really should have nothing to worry about.

If I have this wrong -- someone please correct me.

 

Mike

[Rickey 88]

I respectfully suggest that all your fears are without much foundation - and I am not trying to minimize your concerns.

However, Oceania is not a "new" cruise line, now having successfully operated for the past five plus years. The present ownership is not former "R" execs, but rather a major investor is Apollo - a multi-billion dollar firm. Their investment now includes the construction of two with a third option of multi-million dollar new ships - the first now underway in Italy.

While overbooking does occur - (where does it not?) - at no time to our knowledge has anyone been "Forced" at accept a buyout. It is one's personal choice as to whether or not to take such an offer - but "forced" - never!

Another way to look at it - Oceania is a very successful cruise line and attracts a lot of business. Many of their cruises are filled at an early date - and that would be a strong indication that they are doing a lot of things right....

(We will be leaving on our eighth cruise with them in two months)

[Mapu]

I respectfully suggest that all your fears are without much foundation - and I am not trying to minimize your concerns.

 

However, Oceania is not a "new" cruise line, now having successfully operated for the past five plus years. The present ownership is not former "R" execs, but rather a major investor is Apollo - a multi-billion dollar firm. Their investment now includes the construction of two with a third option of multi-million dollar new ships - the first now underway in Italy.

 

While overbooking does occur - (where does it not?) - at no time to our knowledge has anyone been "Forced" at accept a buyout. It is one's personal choice as to whether or not to take such an offer - but "forced" - never!

 

Another way to look at it - Oceania is a very successful cruise line and attracts a lot of business. Many of their cruises are filled at an early date - and that would be a strong indication that they are doing a lot of things right....

 

(We will be leaving on our eighth cruise with them in two months)

Isn't Frank Del Rio (former Renaissance cruise CEO ) currently CEO of Oceana and Chairman of the Board of Directors?

Oceana is one of Apollo's holdings but so is NCL.

[world~citizen]

Isn't Frank Del Rio (former Renaissance cruise CEO ) currently CEO of Oceana and Chairman of the Board of Directors?

Oceana is one of Apollo's holdings but so is NCL.

 

Yes he is, according to an Oceana 2007 press release.

 

I don't know if he was part of the things that went right or went wrong with Renaissance. He certainly wasn't there at the end. Its financial advisers read like a who's who of the current financial crisis.

 

Nevertheless, I ask these questions because it seems to have an interesting business model. The wine stewards, for example, apparently don't work for the line but for a company that contracts to do that end of the business for Oceana. It seems to be a modern company that does things in modern ways - which was the claim to fame of Renaissance.

 

Again, I am likely to try it out on either a Black Sea or Greek islands cruise - that is if feedback here continues to encourage me in that direction.

 

As I say, trying a new line always gives one a bit of the jitters.

 

Smooth sailing...

[Benita]

Actually, a couple of years ago, there was a big uproar when some people with confirmed reservations were involuntarily bumped from a cruise. Frank Del Rio, the CEO actually got involved and posted an apology on cruise critic and reinstated those bumped (I guess by upping the offering for other passengers to give up their reservations). Other than that (he blamed it on an overzealous employee), they just keep upping the offer until somebody agrees. In Oceania's defense, we were offered "buyouts" on 2 Lindblad cruises as well.

Not to detract from Oceania, after what happened with Renaissance, everybody needs to make sure to buy travel insurance from a third party company, not from the cruise line, because you want to be covered in the unlikely event of bankruptcy. This goes for private tour companies, as well as cruise lines.

[Mapu]

Yes he is, according to an Oceana 2007 press release.

 

I don't know if he was part of the things that went right or went wrong with Renaissance. He certainly wasn't there at the end. Its financial advisers read like a who's who of the current financial crisis.

 

Nevertheless, I ask these questions because it seems to have an interesting business model. The wine stewards, for example, apparently don't work for the line but for a company that contracts to do that end of the business for Oceana. It seems to be a modern company that does things in modern ways - which was the claim to fame of Renaissance.

 

Again, I am likely to try it out on either a Black Sea or Greek islands cruise - that is if feedback here continues to encourage me in that direction.

 

As I say, trying a new line always gives one a bit of the jitters.

 

Smooth sailing...

Educating yourself is your best guarantee. Make sure you read August 12-24 on this board.

[Benita]

World-citizen - We took the Oceania Black Sea Cruise last year - great itinerary. We had a fabulous time. WIth that said, Sochi, Russia is a bit too close to Georgia, for my liking and I worry about the Russians sending their war ships into the Black Sea. I would probably hold off on the itinerary for a little while and do the Greek Islands instead.

[tiny_traveler_15]

World-citizen - We took the Oceania Black Sea Cruise last year - great itinerary. We had a fabulous time. WIth that said, Sochi, Russia is a bit too close to Georgia, for my liking and I worry about the Russians sending their war ships into the Black Sea. I would probably hold off on the itinerary for a little while and do the Greek Islands instead.

 

Benita,

We just returned from an Oceania Greek/Italy cuirse on the Nautica in Aug. It was less than satisfactory, even though I truly liked Oceania.

 

You should read the Aug 12-24 Rome to Athens thread started this week.

 

We missed 5 out of 11 ports on this cruise and got 1 extra hour of 'Happy (!) Hour' plus a $125 USD credit on a future cruise. There is more info that I want to type out here so feel free to read the other thread before booking with Oceania. I think the kicker for us, not mentioned in the other thread, is that other cruise ships were tendering in some of the Greek ports we missed, supposedly due to the sea conditions.

TT15

[skybarshrek]

Hello Tiny traveller, I'm really interested in the fact that you know that other ships were tendering at the ports we missed. I know they missed Delos and Mykonos on the previous cruise. We certainly wouldn't have landed at Santorini, if we'd been using our own tenders as the sea state there was worse than at the Amalfi coast. When we did eventually tender at Taormina, the crew had real difficulty getting the tenders back on the boat -its very interesting to watch the video!

[phillipahain]

Tiny traveller

 

We had a similar experience on Feb/Mar Asia Bangkok to Bejing Cruise

 

Customer services at O sadly could care less

 

Even more annoying was the itinery changes we experienced were clearly planned long befoe final payment but not notified or we would have cancelled and also if they had offered us a buy out we would have taken it

[tiny_traveler_15]

Hello Tiny traveller, I'm really interested in the fact that you know that other ships were tendering at the ports we missed. I know they missed Delos and Mykonos on the previous cruise. We certainly wouldn't have landed at Santorini, if we'd been using our own tenders as the sea state there was worse than at the Amalfi coast. When we did eventually tender at Taormina, the crew had real difficulty getting the tenders back on the boat -its very interesting to watch the video!

 

One of our fellow passengers was in Santorini talking to some others from another cruise ship. The other pax said they had tendered into Sorrento without problems the same day we were in Naples for the second day. I'll see if I can find out more but don't see any reason those people would lie so I'm taking it as truth. I know the other cruise ship in port that day with us was a Celebrity one, not sure which one.

[LHT28]

One of our fellow passengers was in Santorini talking to some others from another cruise ship. The other pax said they had tendered into Sorrento without problems the same day we were in Naples for the second day.

 

Just guessing here

I think it may come down to the Port Authority

they get a time slot to dock/tender into the port if you miss your day then you cannot just show up the next day & try again.

 

Other ships may already be booked for that day

[skybarshrek]

Just guessing here

I think it may come down to the Port Authority

they get a time slot to dock/tender into the port if you miss your day then you cannot just show up the next day & try again.

 

Other ships may already be booked for that day

 

As you say Lyn, its just a guess, and we are not dealing with guess work on this thread. Well most of us arn't anyway!

 

Peter

[Mura]

You always have a few jitters when you book with a new line. I am very mindful that these are the old R ships, and that half the ownership of this line is from Renaissance. Now that line failed because it deserved to. I never booked an R cruise because when I spoke with their reps, the company didn't pass the sniff test - and what they did to their passengers at the end was in fact rotten.

 

As someone who loved Ren and Oceania as well, I am wondering exactly what you mean about what Ren did "to its passengers at the end was in fact rotten."

 

If you mean the bankruptcy, that happened when it happened. And if 9/11 hadn't happened on the day before they were to meet with the bankers, maybe it wouldn't have happened at all. At least not THEN.

 

If you mean passengers who were sailing at the time of 9/11 (which occurred very shortly before the bankruptcy), I have spoken with passengers who were on board at that time and they told me that Ren treated them very well. These people may well have been on board a ship where the CAPTAIN made decisions, but they certainly weren't tossed off the ship even though their cruise had technically ended.

 

We were booked for a January '02 cruise but got our money back ... not that Ren had anything to do with that. Rather it was our credit card company.

 

But you certainly shouldn't blame Oceania for things that happened to Ren.

[tiny_traveler_15]

Tiny traveller

 

We had a similar experience on Feb/Mar Asia Bangkok to Bejing Cruise

 

Customer services at O sadly could care less

 

Even more annoying was the itinerary changes we experienced were clearly planned long before final payment but not notified or we would have cancelled and also if they had offered us a buy out we would have taken it

 

Actually there was a change in our itinerary before we had sailed as well. They switched two ports without any notification. Someone's TA noticed it and they posted it on our Roll Call. I went to the Oceania web site and the itinerary was changed on there but there wasn't any point made in any of our travel documents that it had changed. I guess it's the passenger's responsibility to be aware of the itinerary but I would've thought that the cruise line would've mentioned the change. I'm naive I guess.

[cruzemaven]

My parents were on board one of the R ships when R declared backruptcy. The situation was handled as well as it possibly could have been. The ship turned around from its' way to Sicily and went back to Rome where the passengers disembarked and were flown home on a charter flight. My parents who were in their eighties at the time felt that this crisis was managed as well as could be expected. Up until the announcement was made ( on the eigth day into a twelve day cruise) my parents said they had no idea anything was wrong. They were really enjoying their cruise up until the end.

[world~citizen]

As someone who loved Ren and Oceania as well, I am wondering exactly what you mean about what Ren did "to its passengers at the end was in fact rotten."

 

If you mean the bankruptcy, that happened when it happened. And if 9/11 hadn't happened on the day before they were to meet with the bankers, maybe it wouldn't have happened at all. At least not THEN.

 

If you mean passengers who were sailing at the time of 9/11 (which occurred very shortly before the bankruptcy), I have spoken with passengers who were on board at that time and they told me that Ren treated them very well. These people may well have been on board a ship where the CAPTAIN made decisions, but they certainly weren't tossed off the ship even though their cruise had technically ended.

 

We were booked for a January '02 cruise but got our money back ... not that Ren had anything to do with that. Rather it was our credit card company.

 

But you certainly shouldn't blame Oceania for things that happened to Ren.

 

Thoughtful comments.

 

As I see it, Oceania has more or less the same management as Renaissance - which is not a show stopper for me but is troubling. It is true that 911 was the last nail in the coffin of Renaissance, but it's failure seemed inevitable. Travel agents called them arrogant. Insurance companies refused to sell travel policies for them, and because Renaissance was not covered under the Federal Maritime Commission Bond, passengers could not claim satisfaction under it. Thank goodness credit card companies came through for so many people.

 

Smooth sailing...

[WindrunnerII]

Thoughtful comments.

 

As I see it, Oceania has more or less the same management as Renaissance - which is not a show stopper for me but is troubling. It is true that 911 was the last nail in the coffin of Renaissance, but it's failure seemed inevitable. Travel agents called them arrogant. Insurance companies refused to sell travel policies for them, and because Renaissance was not covered under the Federal Maritime Commission Bond, passengers could not claim satisfaction under it. Thank goodness credit card companies came through for so many people.

 

Smooth sailing...

 

All the O management I have met on my cruises, besides FDR, have been from Silversea, Seabourn, Cunard, Crystal and Wall Street houses like JP Morgan.

 

All in all, quite an amiable and caring group of chaps that seem quite interested in what the passengers think.

 

I have never had any more worries about booking them, neither in the past nor the future, than I have with Princess, Holland or Crystal.

[Ship's Wake]

Oceania's balance sheet is strong and is backed by a well financed ownership group. They are a very stable company.

 

If you have concerns about their financial stability, buy travel insurance that covers supplier default as well as pay by credit card.

[myrtlewinston]

Hi oysterdam,

 

Apollo may have substantial capital, but can it retain it?:

 

"Among the major private-equity shops, Apollo Management appears to be in the worst shape. It has invested in a string of poorly performing leveraged buyouts ... Apollo lost $57 million in the first quarter, the most recent period for which its financial information is available ..."

(Barrons, September 1, 2008)

 

One of their investments has gone bankrupt and another is on the same path.

 

If you don't mind, how do you know that Oceania has a "balance sheet?" It's a privately-held company.

[Ship's Wake]

Myrtlewinston,

 

You seem to have some insight on this. Based on your post, are you indicating that Oceania, Regent, and Norwegian Cruise Line are in financial trouble?

[capecodder2]

Was this post started by a competing cruise line or for real???? Lot of old history and rumors.

[world~citizen]

Was this post started by a competing cruise line or for real???? Lot of old history and rumors.

 

This thread was started by me and I am not a cruiseline.:mad:

 

More is the pity though.:rolleyes:

 

Smooth sailing to you.